The Elites have a new boat rule

http://bassfan.com/news_article.asp?ID=4146

I see both sides of the subject and really dont know if one way or the other is better. It is nice I guess that BASS listens to its anglers and try's to work out the best situation.

I like it.

I guess next they're going to ask KVD to only fish for about 2-4 hrs during the day so other anglers can feel they're on a level playing field.

Then they need to give out a trophy to every angler so no one gets their feelings hurt like they do with kids sports now days. I'd hate for someone to feel like they couldn't compete with the big boys.

I like it as well. Anything that can be done to keep the playing field as level as possible is good for the sport.

I like it.

Works for me

Is there any rule against dropping the lower unit off your 250 and putting on a jet drive for those "special" occasions?

Rojas' comment about Nascar is a little off. During the course of the season, a Nascar driver uses many different cars built for specific tracks. They have road course cars, short course cars, restrictor plate cars, etc....Some of them use a car one time for a specific track and never use the car again. The cars look the same but are completely different in their purpose.

I love Biffle's comments. "The boat he used to win the Open on the Arkansas RIver was just more convenient" give me a break! He new exactly what he was doing and where he was going which we all know was controversial in it's own right.

Exactly Z520, that's why I'm wondering about the lower unit switch for certain tournaments. FLW restricts jet boats in general, but it looks like BASS just wants you to stay in the same "boat". Does switching out lower units on the same boat keep you in the same "boat" rule?

By the way, there was a Z9 up there that final day of practice, I have no idea how he got up there either.

I had a similar discussion a couple days ago about "level playing field" with my brother. Back when this all started, they showed up at lake X and their boats were waiting, all rigged identically. That's where the competition is in my mind. No previous knowledge of what lake you were going to til you got off the plane and everybody had the same stuff except what was in your tackle bag.

I agree it may add uniformity to the field. Can't deny it's a crybaby rule. "Your 6" worm has one more sensual rib in it than mine, FOUL !"

It's coming.

I laughed at Biffle's comments, too Brady. About changing lowers, I'm not sure that's gonna be much help as the big glass boats aren't getting into the areas the little aluminums could anyway, jet or not. IMO.

Yea, I got a good laugh at Tommy's comment too. "It was convenient" However he was against it before the tournament. A bit hypocritical I think.

Will be a good rule. It should be most about the fishing and not a major factor like who has multiple boats or friends with multiple outfits.

Good rule for many reasons but the biggest being that they fish such a large geographic area. You dont want to give the locals any more of an advantage than they already have with the knowledge of the lake or river. I guess it would be different if they could guarantee every angler a "home field advantage" at some point during the season but thats impossible when you have anglers from idaho to jersey and south florida to Cali. The elite series is about being the best "overall" fisherman throughout many types of situations, lakes and rivers across the country. This rule can only help.

Don't like it at all, If I have to fish shallow on certain lakes I will run a jet boat...........

They are pro's it shouldn't matter if they fish in a tin can or a decked out rig, all of them have access to the smaller boats they just choose not to use them.

Excellent! I'm in favor of common-sense rules which reduce the work AND the cost.
The playing field? If KVD is there, the field tilts.

Those little aluminum boats are not the ones putting up sponsor money for these events. My guess is that it ruffles a few sponsor feathers when a 16' aluminum boat takes home the big prize, part of which is funded by sponsors of the big glass boats.
I see the need for leveling the playing field but as long as KVD keeps fishing, it will always be tilted his way. He could pull off a win in a kayak.
I am sure a big percentage of the anglers could jump into a smaller more versatile rig but they too have to keep there sponsors happy.

Not if you're a pro you won't.

I like it... Levels the playing field for the guys who dont have unlimited resources like KVD.

I don't get the comments about it Biffle being hypocritical. Menendez had the same view and has used his aluminum rig a lot more than Biffle ever has. Same for Kennedy. Biffle played by the rules that governed the game, he didn't bend them, nor did he break them. He even asked for clarification from the TD about legal fishing waters and was told that he was in the right.

Sorry for the deflection...carry on.

Levels the playing field? Not really sure about that. Most of those guys could get an aluminum boat if they wanted one, but it is still a catch 22. You sacrifice a lot of time fishing in an aluminum boat when you are going 40 miles down river, and the boat only goes 35 mph. I am fine with the rule though.

You said it yourself. Most"""" could get an aluminum but certainly not all. Majority those guys are broke. Therefore leveling the playing field

...... bawhahahaha what about opens?

Don't challenge the fouz dude.

Not allowed in opens either.

Not allowed in opens either.

You can borrow my boat Zeet,its good on small water.

It's all about money. Hurts the bottom dollar when angler X wins a major tourney in a 17 ft Alumnacraft with a 60 HP on the back. That makes the weekend angler think "hmmm...maybe I should buy a $15K aluminum boat versus a $50K glass boat." After all, aluminum does have it's advantages like fuel economy, getting into skinny water, etc.

Don't think that these angler's aren't voiceing their sponsor's concerns.

..... when can I pick it up Lannie!

I got some areas that a boat like that would work better then mine hahahahahha

great idea for sure/

Evan O'Brien once won a tournament fishing from an oversized surf board, with only a zebco 202 and a zara spook. . . on lake Erie.


I for one am a fan of the rule. Although its not the boat that makes the angler, it CERTAINLY is the vessel with which the angler navigates and arrives (or doesnt) at his fishing destinations. Keeps the field pretty much on the same waters.

Seems kinda socialist to me.....keep it the same for everyone. No advantage anywhere.

Why not limit the amount of money each can spend on tackle?!?!

Well, It's funny they changed the rule now I just spoke with them 4 days ok said jet was ok but couldn't use an air boat to get to a place. But thats fine with me I know a spot I wanted to fish and has a 100 yards of water only being an inch or two deep I actualy did ask if I could use a small air boat with a trolling motor on from deck. Although Im sure the guy behind me in take off wouldn't be happy lol. I don't have a problem with the rule if no one can use them thats fine.

Not like I'm ever going to fish the elite series, but the fact that they want to regulate which boat you can use is limiting the anglers potential. Isn't tournament bass fishing about using every ethical and legal advantage to get the 5 largest fish? I don't see the ethical dilemma, so to just make it a technical legal issue seem like they're fishing for the appearance of "level playing field".

The only good I can see coming out of this is production standards for aluminum boats will sky rocket due to the need for a pro-tourney aluminum rig.

We should make them fish from the bank....no boats

The way I read it, you can still use any boat you want. You just can't change boats. If you wanna run aluminum with a jet, you have to run it for all the events.

To answer your question: In the early days of BASS tourneys, Ray Scott and staff would not allow more than 10 lbs. of tackle per angler in the boat in the Classic. I remember one year that Ray was going thru the late great Billy Westmoreland's tackle box and removing lures like original Fred Young Big O's to try and get his box below weight. So "limits to tackle" have happened before.

That 21' Express is getting real close to a pro-tourney rig.

......bawhahahaha what about the opens Zeeter? Can you run any boat you want at any event? BTW, and I mean no offense to any of the Open anglers. Kinda hard to call yourself a "pro" when you fish three B.A.S.S. tournaments per year. Save the Elite or FLW Tour pros who fish a few of them, I think most boaters in the opens are considered ams. Pros make their living fishing. Open anglers do not.

Trying to cram those 21 foot glass boats down the consumers throats maybe, but they are the big money sponsors aren't they. Don't know about the rest of the country but here at our local dealerships aluminum are out-selling glass boats in this economy. No doubt those big boat sponsors don't like seeing some guy in a tin boat beating their big boy boats. I have a glass boat now but their are times I do miss my old G3, cheap to tow and put gas in and boy would it go shallow. Just my opinion but not a good rule change, takes away an interesting element to some tournaments.

From reading some of the posts here I think some folks have a skewed sense of what the reality is with many of the pros on the elite tours. They are not millionaires. There are very few that can afford multiple boats, etc. Many can hardly afford the risk of the trail.

I personally want to see a pros fishing abilities (locating and catching them) rather than who has the boats to get to places others cannot.

Also if you notice if a guy thinks he needs a small metal boat with a jet drive he can fish out of one. Just has to the rest of the year as well. We will see how many pick that option...

Next they should make it illegal to use custom lures and experimental lures from lure companies. Not everyone can get the experimental lures from Strike King etc. They have to be one of your sponsors to get them.

KVD used Hydrowave before anyone else. I'm sure there are other electronics that some get and others don't.

Where do you draw the line. It's impossible to make the playing field level for ALL. Seems to me that the more rules you make the more rules are needed to compensate for the new rules.

The only real rules needed are off limits rules and safety rules. Only equipment and lures that are available to the general public can be used. That should be enough rules for everyone.

Competitions have rules, fishing is no differant. They are trying to make it as much about the "fishing" as possible, not about who has 200k worth of boats to use when the situation changes.

I'm sure most of the pros fishing the elite series are not millionaires. Are the people fishing the elite series the best fishermen on the planet? NO. They are the ones that have dedicated themselves to the sport at the level required or have the sponsorships required to cover their costs with a little extra for them to live off of.

To truly get the best fishermen in the elite series a change in how they get into the series needs to be changed. Something more like what NASCAR has developed over the years. The owner/driver is a thing of the past. So it should be in the elite series. The time has come for teams to form under one owner. They should seek out the best fishermen and put them in THEIR equipment and pay the fishermen to fish under their banner. That will bring out the BEST of the BEST. At least in my opinion.

???

Sponsorship in Nascar is HUGE. Sponsorship in bass fishing is a drop in the bucket comparatively speaking. For your idea to work, the sponsors must get a positive return on their investment, or the dollars will dry up.

Let's face it, bass fishing is not and will never be a nationally famous sport nor will it ever draw the crowds nor the viewership of Nascar, and therein lies the challenge of ever getting a model like you suggested off the ground.

Not saying yours is a bad idea, just that I don't believe the funds to be there.

Fouz whoever called who a pro bub, I just said I like the option of running a shallower boat and I would do it....... I then asked if they fished an open could they fish in whatever boat you want.

Don't get mad at me, get mad at the tourney directors or FLW for calling the boaters Pro

Fouz what if we had WATER NASCAR? All jokes aside, I am in favor of the rule.

Bass fishing is definitely NOT a spectator sport that draws big crowds at the event location. You can't see what everyone is doing at the same time for sure. So you are right, it will never have the really big crowds.

NASCAR sponsorship is huge but so is the cost of their equipment, logistics, and personnel. The cost of running a NASCAR team is in the $10 - $15,000,000 a year range per car. Cost of fishing the Elite Series is probably 1% of that or less. My point is that I'm sure the sponsorships are out there that can cover it. More TV time would help dramatically.

Not saying this would happen next year but it IS what is needed to move the sport up to the real professional level. NASCAR wasn't paid much attention years ago either. So Pro Fishing can do it to.

Anyone heard of Major League Fishing?? A great move to increase awareness of our sport.

Who needs sponsors when you can hand a few bags of baits out and put someone on a "field" staff. Suddenly they will support you until death, hell some people even PAY OUT OF POCKET to have their boats wrapped with a company logo.

Get much more traction with an army of "free" staffers, vs. $100k in entries for a pro.

I worked for a Nascar Team several years ago and that is correct. Different cars and different engines for specific purposes.

Who cares what boat he used and all that nonesense? Biffle still had to catch fish. He did that better than everybody else in that tournament and that is why he won it.

Exactly Fast Lane. He found the fish, caught the fish, and won with the most weight. End of story.

The rules have been working. Leave them alone. What are people going to cry about leveling next?

I draw the line at trolling spider rigs with 10 baits on it!

No wait.............8 baits!

Not millionaires? Have you guys looked at the total money most of these guys have won fishing tournaments? There are several millionares. Have you watch the Bass Pro's show where it has shown several of them testing/tuning crankbaits in their swimming pool's? Take a look at the house(s) those pool's are behind. And they can't afford an aluminum boat too? Give me a break....that is nonesense.

Sounds like something Congress would approve to me...

Exactly. If one person runs up in a slough and whacks em and wins a tournament, everybody is crying foul. I'm sure there are a lot more that take a gamble like that in a non-traditional tournament boat and not do so well or even blank. Are people crying foul on those folks? No.

The rules have been working. Leave them alone. What are people going to cry about leveling next?

I said not all...look at how much in winnings they have and divide that by years fished....deduct the costs involved and see what you come up with. Sponsor money is where its at but I would say there are only about 10-15 of those guys making any big bucks from fishing alone.

The ones that make money for the year are those that win the classic. That is why a lot of pros say they have had a successful regular season after the first tournament they win. That gets them into the classic and makes the rest of the year a bit easier to deal with.

Dont give em any ideas, if KVD wins the next two , thay may make him fish as a Co-Angler

Fastlane, it takes upwards of 100K a year just to fish the elites, take any given angler and multiply that number by how long they have been pro and subtract it from career winnings, very few will not be in the red. 85% of pro's actually make very little and if it were not for sponsorships could not do it. Sure KVD, Grigsby, Braur, Ike, and a few more are living the high life most of the newer/not big name guys are picking up pennies in parking lots just to buy dinner.

Then they need to issue everyone the same boat and electronics along with the same rod, reels, line and baits.

Everybody hates a winner nowadays because they must have had an unfair advantage.

+1.......I've been around Biffle a lot on the water on his home lake and seen him at a lot at OK boat shows. I don't believe I've ever met a more snobby feller. I hate to see him do good in tournaments.

Rules like this don't necessarly make things better. Back in the late 50s when I first started racing super modifieds it was run what you brung. Ihere were some real inovative ideas like a car with 2 engines and it didn't work. Then they started making rules expenses didn't come down if anything went up. I will bet the rule book for the supers is now 50 pages and if we would have had all those rules the same people would have still won. I think the pros should be able to use any boat they want after all dealers would be glad to let them borrow a boat or they probably had a buddy they could get a boat from.

Lets be real. Equipment is a big part of any activity. Can you win the Bassmaster Classic in a kayak? Sure. Can you cross the ocean in a Bass Cat? Sure. Can you build an eighty story building without a crane? Sure.

BASS has to adjust the rules to keep things consistent. I think this is a good rule. I want the best angler to win, and I want the competition to be consistent.

The well known Pro's and Most of the Bassmaster Classic Winners are very well off. They showed Timmy Horton's House on TV the other day, he isn't broke...very far from it.

How many here is this rule going affect? 1 Person that I know ofsome of yall are the biggest whiners and complainers over some thing that has absolutely ZERO affect on you or what you do.My Grandma would smack your face and tell you to shut the hell up and act your age!lol

That rule is a frekin joke every angler had the chance to take an aluminum boat but chose not to and some did. If it's about sponsorship then make them wrap the aluminum also. Just like every angler has the chance to get an A-rig. Equal playing field sounds like some guys got butt hurt that somebody actually had the nads to take a chance with the aluminum and it worked out for him. People can spin it any way they want but to me it a frekin joke.

Don't like it. Wonder if our local tournaments circuits will try to follow suit on something similar?

I think it is about the camera boat. No film footage of the winner fishing.

fishing pro circuits it aint all glamor with million dollar rigs and homes.....I grew up fishing with/against Dave Lefebre and he was hell bent on becoming a pro......he made it, but dag gone what a tough road and he still lives VERY modestly in a small town in Northwest PA.



I like the rule, as many have mentioned before, most of these guys can barely afford Micky D's after the tourney let alone 3 or 4 boats rigged specifically for each body of water they fish.

I don't see a problem with it, if he has the balls to take a little boat and lose fishing time gambling on one spot then go for it. If he had lost people would call him a fool.

Exactly, and no one would be pondering a rule change.

More power to him.Roland Martin used to do this all the time(won lot of tournaments)

So because you saw TH's house on TV, and you've seen a couple pros testing lures in their pools, all the well known pros and most of the Classic winners are very well off?

Most of the anglers that are very well off, have businesses back home generating income, and many have several different ventures going. And while the top 5-10 have excellent sponsor packages, if they don't stay on top those dwindle rapidly. As to the comment about millionaires and "look how many have over a million in winnings", that's nonsense. A millionaire has a net liquid worth over $1M. If wealth was determined by how much we've made over our careers, the world would be full of millionaires.

I will assure you that for every pro on the Elites doing well, there are 3 who are struggling to stay out there.

I understand the stated rationale for the rule. There's other hidden concerns not being made public. It's pretty easy to see it's easily a crybaby rule.

Like some have mentioned I would have to believe alot of it comes from sponsor and tv reasons.

If a pro wins back up in a creek where the camera boat can't follow there's no footage, if he uses that little aluminum it doesn't look good for the sponsors in some ways.

I could care less if a guy chooses to fish out of a glass rig one tourney and something like an express the next. As long as they are not using jet boats,airboats or mud boats i think it's ok.

As long as it's a "bass boat", bass tracker,express,g3 whatever.

I have lived and fished in some dang swampy places over the years and it's a little harder but there aren't a whole lot of places you can get a 18+' G3 for example you couldn't get in with a 20' skeeter.

The big leagues per say is looking more like Nascar now, i think they are trying to follow that formula for tv viewership and sponsor attraction.

Boats have to be wrapped, they allow 250hp motors now, lots of running footage in clips.

In the old days BASS had a 150hp max allowance regardless of boat lenght. Boats weren't wrapped and all of the footage was primarily just fishing.


It's a changing world and for TV they are trying to make it as Nascar as possible, but this is good in some ways for sponsorship purposes, we are starting to see alot of non fishing related sponsors that spend big advertising and sponsorship dollars.

I think as long as they use a boat that fits the rules it should be cool. Hell it would prolly make the alum boats better and sell better too, even thugh they already outsell the big glass ones.

I think there are alot of Folks that Don't understand what it cost to fish on the Elites..

Most guys say winning one will break them even for the year. That is 100 grand in expenses every year.

agreed

This is a career for pros. It is bussiness. A lot of people lose money and have to give up theirdream if they don't make money. That is a fact of life. If he chooses
to fish out of a smaller boat and won then it was a good decision and if bass. Will allow it then he is smart. If they outlaw it then he can gripe lime the rest of the crowd. Until then he is the winner.

I like the rule. Keeps it fair.

What a Crock!!!

BASS is worried about a "level playing field", "sportsmanship" and a "code of conduct".

Yet they allow anglers to use biological altering sound waves to assist in catching fish.

Since BASS has rewritten their rules for 2012 (for all of their tournament series's) and eliminated all references to "communication" it would appear that the use of Biosonic and Hydrowave in past years WAS a rule infraction. So it has been cleaned up now.

KVD at his best.

How is the Hydrowave "biological altering"?? It just makes the fish think that there is food around, like ringing a dinner bell. It in no way changes the fish or their behaivior biologically.
KVD at his best.

Well maybe they'll "negotiate" for special circumstances like they did with Wellman. When in Rome........

You might want to read their website, altering the fish's environment by sounds that effect the feeding reflex is biological manipulation, and that is real "sportsman" like.

Don't crankbaits with rattles, buzzbaits, Pop R type baits and jig rattles all make sounds that make fish think food is around?

i know when I open my package of hostess powdered donuts... the water starts boiling!! those little fat greenies are suckers for a powdered donut!! just like me

I think BASS made a good ruling... keep the playing field a little more even keeled. SO what if some have the extra resources... some dont.. and it keeps it more in line with the rest of the competition.

I don't think the issue is who has or can buy an aluminum boat to fish a particular tournament. Like one of the pros said, the problem is that some of these guys live in the Northeast or the West. How do they bring two boats to the tournament lake from 500-1,000 miles away?

An Alabama pro fishing Guntersville or Neely Henry can drive home and get his aluminum boat a lot easier than a guy who lives in Michigan or New Jersey.

Again, the rule doesn't say that you can't fish from an aluminum boat. It just says you have to fish from the same boat all year.

It's all about the money. The big sponsors don't want a guy to win a tournament in an aluminum boat! I don't really blame'em. That said I don't have a problem with the rule.

I think the rule change is good. No doubt it has been tossed around all year and the guys at BASS get most of their rule change input from the Elite fishermen. Majority rules.
meP2too I would go easy on yellow flagging KVD for unsportsmanlike conduct. Several guys on here have one and I'm pretty sure we are good sportsmen. I'm sure the fly fishermen on the banks think our trolling motors are a bad thing too.

Yes they do, but the ANGLER has to determine at what speed or cadence of retreive is required to entice the strike. That is the sporting / talent aspect.

A post cold front blue bird day should be fished as such, just as mother nature intended. Too many people are after instant self gratification.