what's your take on unusual catches and cheating?

lot of discussion about baiting brushpiles currently but what is cheating anymore?.....obvious things I can think of would be getting fish out of a basket you had caught previously or setting the hook into a fish's jaw that you had caught previously and tied out....cheating would be taking your boat out secretly during a tournament and trailering to a different lake/pond,catching easy to catch fish and bringing them back to weigh-in....putting lead weights in a fish or snagging a bed fish with treble hook would be cheating .....
may be a few things I haven't thought of but just about else being debated is just breaking a rule....

several years ago,I was fishing as Hydrasport tourny on Lanier..was hopping a jig down a steep bank,got a bite,set the hook and a 2lb fish came to the top and jumped...I was pulling her to the boat and about halfway back I could feel the fish on but couldn't pull her closer...got over top of her,pulled her up,netted the fish and my jig and an old rusty spoon was her mouth...spoon had line tied to it so I started pulling on the line thinking there might be rod and reel down there it was hung on something on the bottom.....

I estimated the lenght of line to be 20-30 feet...ended up breaking as much line off as i could...spoon was so rusty it and hook was about to fall apart...put fish in livewell and weighed it in...never thought anymore about other it...figured there was ne telliing how long that fish had been down there "tied off like a dog on a chain" and probably was hungry enough to eat anything that came by..

told that story on another forum several years later and couldn't believe how many people blasted me for not releasing the fish...another guy told a story of hooking a huge(7lb) fish in brushpile,having to finally break the fish a long struggle then coming back to brushpile a few minute and the fish with guy's jig in it's mouth surfaced beside the boat ,his partner netted and they eventually decided to release the fish...big debate over that and one guy actually threatened to whip another's rear if if ever weighed a fish in against him caught in similar curcumstances.....

my thought on both instances is they are both unusual but perfectly legal catches....you hooked the fish and landed it... it was just some rare and lucky circumstances that enabled you to put the fish in the boat....no different than you fighting a fish to the boat,fish,hooks comes out in mid-air but but partner is quick with net and catch fish in mid air..
what's your take on unusual catches like those above?

apples to oranges IMO. First story couldnt be more legal. Second story is cheating. I had the exact same thing happen to me in a basschamps. I fizzed the fish and she swam off. Never in my life did I think of keeping her just because she floated up due to needing to be fizzed. Had the fish on for prob 15 minutes too see sawing her. It sucked but it wasnt a catch.

What’s difference between catching a fish that’s come off in mid air with a net and catching one that surfaces…..end result is you hooked the fish and caught it…

The one that surfaces is sick/disoriented.



The spoon fish is 100% legit, you didn’t tie it up and didn’t know the fish was down there.


Now a scumbag would be a guy that finds a floating fish and then intentionally cast into its mouth and sets the hook until he “catches” it and then keeps it. 100% unethical, but could be considered legal I guess. I wouldn’t do it, nor would any of my friends.

your examples of fish caught with old broke line is legit, I think that happened on BPT while back if I remember right it was Strader and he was saying no telling how long that fish had been down there in that brush pile tied up

Common sense folks….common sense. The baiting holes thread might be the dumbest thread ever.

This site is looking more like twitter than a fishing site.

About 10 years ago in a champs on Rayburn I broke a good fish off in the pads on a black skinny dipper about 9am. Braid broke in the spool and ripped off every guide. I rerigged and continued on with the day. About 2pm we returned to that area and as we were leaving the trolling motor got in a bind in the pads. We had put our rods away and I assumed it was just pad stems, nope it was my braid from the break off. I wanted my hook back so I hand lined in the 50ft of braid. Got to the end where it was balled up and it still had the 4lber hung up in the pads in the exact spot he bit that morning. Culled a 2lber with it and never looked back

I have a hypothetical for you (we caught a fish like this but is was a slot so it didnt matter anyway), what if instead of breaking the fish off you released your spool to see if it could swim out and the fish instead surfaced because of the struggle? Still hooked, still attached to the line on your rod and reel.

First fish is legal.

Second fish is not. The reason being is you picked up another rod and started fishing. As soon as you started fishing again, at that point, you were using two lines/baits at the same time. If I remember right, the Elites had a rule change one year when I fished them that addressed this. If you broke off, you could use your rod tip to snag the broken line but you couldn't use a bait to snag it. Same principle.

IMHO it would be legal; unless there was a rule about leaving the boat to land fish.....
if you fish long enough,you gonna have some some of those once or twice in a lifetime catch experiences.....you netting or grabbing fish surfacing beside the boat or getting one untangled fromweeds,all of that is no different that fish coming off in mid air and you/your partner catching it in the net.....important thing is that you enticed that fish to bite your bait .once you hook a fish,all kind of crazy things can happen....my final argument would be that i have no problem whatsover if you have one of those once/twice in a lifetime fish landings and weigh the fish in against me...

Some of these answers are shocking and scary. One reason I have taken a step back from tournament fishing. Under no circumstance is my fish legal. I had it on for 15 minutes. I let out a ton of line to try and get it to float up and it wouldnt. I broke the fish off. It floated up few min later. That is not a legal fish period. It dont matter if I made a second cast... it doesnt matter if its not specifically in the rules. It matters that I didnt catch it. Crazy that Im against the majority on this one. Makes ya wonder what other grey areas people exploit. This to me was an absolute no brainer. Didnt even bother calling the tournament director. It was on yalls beloved 31 hole too.

No brainer its legal. Who says you are leaving the boat? People pull that trick all the time.

would you weigh a fish that jumped beside the boat,came off in mid air but you or your partner caught it with the net before it hit the water and got away?.......if so,what is the difference between that and the other catches you are against?.....

money at stake reveals character.......more money, more excuses.....everyone has a bright line I think

I don't think these situations are about the letter of the "law" but instead more about intent, ethics and morals. If the fish is legal and you don't think it was caught the way it should have been then let it go. If you guys recall this EXACT scenario caqme up in a College National Championship a few years ago and the inital winner was moved to last place because their limit was zeroed for the day because a fish they broke off earlier in the day happned to get found later in the day

That's the process of landing a fish. It's a legal catch, if you hooked it legally. It's completely a different story tp leave a fiah and come back later or it floats up several minutes after you broke off...

What’s the difference other than a little elapsed time…. You enticed the fish to bite,you landed it….no different than fish jumping beside into the boat other than elapsed time….and there is no rule concerning that….open up your thinking to see the object is to fool a fish into biting then capture the fish to weigh it in….only difference is elapsed time and some luck….

Agreed, Jarrett like Chris said the same situation happened in the national collegiate finals and the winners were dq’d when they told their crazy story of how they caught their fish that broke off earlier and one of them caught the line later in the day and the fish was still there. They hand lined it in and culled a smaller fish. I forget what the ruling was but it cost them a national title.

Here’s the story:

https://www.wired2fish.com/news/sfa...-mckendree-final-day-catch-disqualified/

Hank is Chris’s nephew if I’m not mistaken.

if there was no rule against having two lines in the water,IMHO those boys got screwed out of a national championship....they hooked the fish and they landed the fish...that's the single most important thing...everything else is just elapsed time and unusual circumstances....

If the fish is the slightest bit questionable then I will release it every time.

No tournament is worth having my integrity questioned.



I also believe very few DQs are due to intentionally breaking rules are attempting to cheat.

Ones cheating and ones not.

what's cheating about being incredibly lucky to land a fish?.....what about that fish we all have had come loose right at the boat and the partner or you managed to swipe him up with the net before he got away? is that cheating?

Just call any tournament director and they will explain the differences to you.

im not a tourney guy so my opinion doesnt matter....but I feel like its borderline cheating when locals drag secret brush piles out. Tourney guys say its "working hard".....as if the people traveling to their home lake arent hard workers or tourney fishing grinders themselves.

No idea how its an even playing field when one guy can cruise down in 20 minutes to a local lake after work/on your day off the week or 2 before a tourney to plant brush piles....when non locals are unable to do this. I think its hilarious when people say things like "putting in the time" like they are special and the rest of the field are unwilling and/or too lazy to do the things locals are able to do

""Just call any tournament director and they will explain the differences to you.""

since you so strongly believe it's cheating,surely you can explain differences and the reasoning behind your belief that an unusual catch of a fish is cheating.........

I hope I don't fish tournaments against you

I can see it's a grey area in some rules. Take champs for example, it says one "cast" must be completed before another can start, of course by the same angler they're saying. One could interpret that as, when you break a lure off or a fish that the "retrieve or cast" is complete. So if the fish floats up after that then it wasn't caught in a sporting manner. Me personally, it's one of those things where it's up to the individual. If you get that little voice that says it's questionable, you either act on it or try to slide by. It's a character thing

every tournament I have ever entered had the one rod and caught in a sporting manner rules in them, like this from bass champs.

9. PERMITTED FISHING METHODS: Only artificial lures may be used. Only one fishing rod per angler may be used at any one time. Additional rods may be in the boat and ready for use; however, each cast and retrieve must be completed before another cast is attempted or rod is used. Trolling with the combustion engine as a method of fishing is prohibited. Switching or sharing fish with other teams or individuals is a violation of these rules and will result in immediate disqualification. All Bass must be caught alive, in a conventional, sporting manner. When sight fishing for Bass, all fish must be hooked inside the mouth to be counted as a legal fish. All angling must be conducted from the boat. At no time may a Contestant leave the boat to land a fish, make the boat more accessible to fishing waters, or locate bass.
https://www.basschamps.com/rules.cfm

if you catch one on the first cast of the day and break it off then go back an hr. prior to weigh in and catch the line or it is floating then it is an illegal fish at that point. was not caught and LANDED in a conventional way since no cast was made when you actually landed it and when you broke off that cast was over.

main reason I only fish the big bass now (and am dropping 2 of those even) is all the bs that has come to be in tournament fishing. I got into tournaments to try to better myself thru the competition against better sticks. they have now become more of a pain in the rear with all the people acting stupid on the lake then again with pushing the rules to the outer edge trying to get away with something. just not worth it any more and the fun is gone except for 2 I will fish.

It is amusing that they have to specifically state that “all bass must be caught alive”.

fished tournaments from early 70's until i retired in 2005...several club championships,13 time redman regional qualifier,two time all american qualifier,won numerous draw type and team type tournaments in a 4 state area that required passing polygraph tests and as far as i know,never had a complaint about my integrity....
how about explaining to me just why you wouldn't want to fish a tournament against me......since we are making snide comments,is your reasoning based on somebody catching a fish some other way than dragging a c-rig across a community hole,that's cheating because you didn't think of it?

I don't care how many tournaments you fished or how well you have done. Just by your comments on this thread, I wouldn't trust any fish you weighed in

""I don't care how many tournaments you fished or how well you have done. Just by your comments on this thread, I wouldn't trust any fish you weighed in""

keep trying,you haven't come up with anything yet....
but it does remind me of all those people who refuse to take the vaccine...

I don't understand what I'm supposed to keep trying or what I'm supposed to come up with. I've read your comments on hear and I wouldn't trust you to not bend or break tournament rules. What does that have to do with people getting vaccinated?

this is the gist of the original discussion....unless there is a specific rule against making another cast before you land the original fish you hooked, there is no way to label an unusual landing of a fish as cheating or dishonest ...if you hooked that fish and it's got your bait in it's mouth,you caught that fish and it don't matter if it took,30 seconds,3 minutes or 3 hours,you caught the fish....and if you fish long enough something like that is [probably going to happen to you....(and you probaly gonna say Beartrap just might be right because you've had enough bad luck with fish breaking off and now you're due some good luck).....

here is what (I think) we are debating....
""if you fish long enough,you gonna have some some of those once or twice in a lifetime catch experiences.....you netting or grabbing fish surfacing beside the boat or getting one untangled fromweeds,all of that is no different that fish coming off in mid air and you/your partner catching it in the net.....important thing is that you enticed that fish to bite your bait .once you hook a fish,all kind of crazy things can happen....my final argument would be that i have no problem whatsover if you have one of those once/twice in a lifetime fish landings and weigh the fish in against me...

fact is a lot of folks bend the rules in tournaments, the ones that get caught are all we actually know about tho.

as for fishing against beartrap, welcome in my boat any day or I will fish against him in a tournament if he ever makes it up here again. not gonna sweat the small stuff and doubt I have ever fished a tournament that was 100% free of someone bending rules somewhat, cheating is a whole nother conversation and that I will get nasty about if I catch someone at it, federal offense now and they will prosecute.

Crazy. How we bringing the vaccine into this. Smh. I give up lol.

There is something wrong with you.

you need to give up because you have given no reason whatsover to show that catching a fish in mid air or handlining the fish in is cheating other than you think it is.......and i should not have expected you to see the similarity betweeen unvaccinated people either....

It's just as stupid as everything else he has said on this thread

you boys need to give this some serious thought tonite and see if you can come up with some rationale behind your thinking that catching a fish in mid-air or handlining a broken line fish in should be labeled as cheating....otherwise we probably should let the thread just die and TFF members can just ride off into the sunrise never knowing whether to catch a fish in mid air or grab a broken line.....

Yes, you need to let it die, since you are the only one that finds it ethical. If a lines not even attached to your rod, how could you claim it as your fish. Just plain stupid and no need to respond, because 99% of the people in this thread comprehend what’s right & wrong.

It's rare but I agree with you 100%

Guys you need to take this serious….going to be hundreds of viewers open this thread in morning to find if they are cheaters or just lucky…..

the sun has riz and the sun has set.....and we still don't have a logical (or any ) reason why a fish ypu hooked with your bait in it's mouth,caught in mid air,wallowing at the surface or handlined in if your line breaks is illegal,immoral,illicit or wrong to weigh-in.......so.....if it happens again (in my second lifetime),I'm going to put the damn fish in the livewell and sleep good that night

Is there a tournament director on the board who can talk about this? I don't understand the argument that grabbing your broken line and hand-lining in a fish is cheating. With the college guys wasn't there a question about whether they could positively identify the fish as the one they hooked?

And before anyone starts with "if you can't see anything wrong with it you're a cheater and I wouldn't want to fish against you!", my partner and I netted a 4 pounder that had a crappie in its mouth during a state championship tournament on Bob Sandlin. It was a tough, tough day and a fish that size would have been a difference maker. No one was around, no one saw us, but we didn't think twice about dislodging the crappie and releasing both of them back into the lake.

On the other hand, I have had fish come unhooked with the net under them more than once, and in my opinion it would have been silly to consider throwing them back.

If your line broke and you hand lined the fish at the same moment, then that is fine. The OP is trying to claim that snagging the line the following day(s) and pulling the fish in, is ok.

BULLCRAP......


this is what i said several different ways...
""this is the gist of the original discussion....unless there is a specific rule against making another cast before you land the original fish you hooked, there is no way to label an unusual landing of a fish as cheating or dishonest ...if you hooked that fish and it's got your bait in it's mouth,you caught that fish and it don't matter if it took,30 seconds,3 minutes or 3 hours,you caught the fish....and if you fish long enough something like that is [probably going to happen to you....(and you probaly gonna say Beartrap just might be right because you've had enough bad luck with fish breaking off and now you're due some good luck)....."

The most common thing that happens in Texas tournaments is the culling of a dead fish. Some folks do it by mistake, some do it on purpose. Most watch that fish carefully and do all the right things to keep it alive, but when they are still looking pretty bad but still alive they toss it or make a judgment call whether its going to help them regardless of the dead fish penalty. Years ago we always culled a dead fish but now because its a state law now, that you cant cull a dead fish. A lot of money has been lost and won on this matter. It cost me a brand new Ranger in a Bass n Bucks championship On Rayburn. I had 4 pounders all day on a balance beam on the first day and a dead two pounder in the livewell I couldn't cull which it ends up being 1 3/4 lb with penalty. Since then though Clark Reheem said in a Legacy championship i fished in a seminar, about pouring sprite or mountain dew on those fish bleeding bad and it helps keep them alive not all the time but most of the time. Point is it is a judgement call and anybody can easily make a mistake like 6 fish in a livewell, or easily break a infraction by mistake, but 98% of tournament anglers do not purposely cheat. And sadly the 2% that do sometimes gives the sport a bad name, But all of us surely aint going to let them ruined what we love to do.

As a tournament director, our only line of defense is the polygraph (other than catching someone "hands on"). Here is the deal with the polygraph. A polygraph exam is basically an evaluation of emotions and responses to questions. A person trying to lie during a polygraph will breath different, their pulse will vary, they will wiggle, etc. A person telling the truth will maintain a steady reading. Here's the key - if the person truly thinks they haven't cheated, then they will show no signs of deception. They have no reason for their pulse to change because they think they are telling the truth. In beartrap's case, I think he could pass a polygraph because he truly thinks he is right. It does not matter what WE think...it's all about what HE thinks when he's hooked up to the polygraph. No different than one partner throwing trash into the lake and his partner not seeing him. If you polygraph the one that threw in the trash, he will show deception. If you polygraph his partner, he will pass with no problems because he does not know they broke the rules.

The way I see the scenario above - once you start back fishing, you have forfeited all previous casts. You cannot land a fish that you have previously broken off. Basically, once you lose sight of your line, how can you prove to me, with 100% certainty, that it was your line that you snagged and pulled in? Yes, there's a 99.99% chance that it is your line, but prove it to me without a shadow of a doubt. You can't. Also, I look at tournament fishing as a competition between man and fish. When that fish did whatever it did to break your line and get away, it won. It beat you. He will need to be caught again by using the customary method.

When a fish comes unhooked right at the net and either swims in the net or falls in the net, then you know, without a reasonable doubt, that is YOUR fish. You never lost sight of it. That is a legal catch.

Here is one for you...some tournaments say "last cast at 3:00"....so can you make your last cast at 3:00 and continue to drag it around for the next 30 minutes while drifting? Of course not, but I'd sure rather see the wording as "stop fishing at 3:00".

very simple solution,if you don't believe a fish handlined on a broken line is legal,put it in the rules that a fish may not be recovered once fishing has been resumed....

speaking of passing polygraphs,several years ago,my partner and i got our boat hung up on a mud bar....we tried everything to get unstuck and finally cranked up big engine and while partner pushed with paddle,I used trolling motor...problem was I forgot to put life jacket on while big engine was running and didn't know if that was against the rules...
we won the tournament and when i went in to take the polygraph,I told the operator what had happened and i didn't know if I had broken the rules or not....he then worded every question similar to this "other than life jacket possible violation,did you break any rules or cheat etc"...and he reported what I had told him to tournament director....turns out their rule was boat had to be on plane for life jacket to be required so I didn't break any rule.......
I have taken numeropus polygraphs over the years and I don't claim to be perfect but I am 100% sure I could not tell a lie or cheat and still pass a polygraph....those things make me nervous (guilty conscience probably) I feel like I'm lying when they ask me my name.....

This may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I love it!

I agree. Someone thinking they can break off a fish. Then hours later snag the line and think that is a legal tournament fish is the dumbest thing ever

It gets really complicated when you pull the line up on the 2lber you broke off 3 hrs earlier and it’s dead. The smallest one you got in the well is a 4….what do you do?!?! Can’t be culling the dead one you “caught”

But...”you guys need to seriously think about this”...seems now that 99.9% of us disagree with the OP, but I guess we’re still in the wrong way of thinking.

I just make sure to not have a net in the boat and tie very poor knots so line only breaks right at the knot - problem solved. Unless I break one off at the knot and later in the day the same bass jumps into the boat.