Unhappy MLF Pro’s?

Start @ 15:25 mark to skip past Auburn rant and hear the latest scuttle butt about MLF. He’s been pretty accurate about things he includes in his podcasts, and there is no question that he has the connections to the inside. Have any of you seen an article or write up by MLF or it’s affiliated BassFan about Otts win in the latest where it showed the payout through the whole field? It would be interesting to see what it is now that they are paying entry fees... maybe it’s not up to the expectations?

They showed the payouts on the Sam Rayburn event on the broadcast.

Thanks for posting this Big O... the Bill Lowen interview was great!

Take Big O for what he is... and Luke clearly has an axe to grind, but he is good friends with those guys and I believe him that a lot are unhappy.. we will see what comes of it

I'm not going to give that @sshole clicks, do you work with/for Dunkin?

Luke Dunkin is the National Enquirer of bass fishing. Big O for someone that can't stand MLF you sure do post a lot about them

Luke Dunkin is hella annoying! LOL

People that like him are usually anti MLF and only like him because he is anti MLF too....at least thats what ive noticed. Meh...at least he knows his demo.

These boys made their beds and now its time to lie in it. BASS really powered through the muck these last few years since the schism...and really showed they could survive without the KVDs, Ike's.....and even the Swindle's and Palauniks. The ones that already made the jump cuz they could see the smoke and knew there was fire were the smart ones.....cant imagine BASS letting a mass exodus of MLFers fish the elites. Opens might just be stupid tough the next couple/few years 🤷‍♂️

I hear the MLFers would rather run with wolves anyway 😂🤔🤦‍♂️

suspect the bottom 40 in BASS standings ain't too happy after paying entry fees and having no winnings and no TV exposure....

I think there are a lot of indicators visible that what Luke reports is probably more accurate than not. If the general observer and bass angling fan can see things then I can imagine the anglers involved know a lot more about what’s going on and being said. I found it interesting he said “FLW 2.0” more than once... my guess is that BPT and perhaps the Cups goes away completely and the old FLW is going to be the only thing remaining.

They haven’t published a entry fee and payout schedule for BPT, the old published process and structure for line of advancement/demotion in and out of BPT is obviously void because it wasn’t followed for the 2021 season and nothing has been published as a replacement. There is strong rumors that JM will be pulling the Bass Pro Shops endorsement at end of current contract. I think Luke probably knows way more than he leads on that he does.

I think Luke is Big O and I have thought that for months...How else could both always know so much about bpt.

All anglers get LIVE broadcast exposure in front of fans at every tournament for at least 2 days when they cross that big stage in front of big crowds of fans, regardless the total weight of fish caught. If they have little to no winnings on the Elite series, BASS will soon replace them, using a well established and publicly disclosed process, with anglers who have earned their way into the Elites via AOY points and wins in the open qualifiers. That’s something those who gullibly remained fishing the old FLW circuits relying upon on empty promises can only wish for these days.

Big o making more out of what was said than what was said

People are unhappy, there will be changes. End of conversation.

Who needs all the drama?

TH Marine should be embarrassed then.

Good listen... Thanks Big O... Dan

And there always are unhappy people coming and going all the time.

Big O is the QAnon of MLF

Thanks Big O, enjoyed the interview with Bill Lowen and the Xpress guys!

Some good stuff in the video, but this is definitely confirmation Bias.. but i wouldnt be surprised if there were unhappy people in the MLF/Bass etc

I thought it was a good podcast, but the Xpress nut-hugging is little much.

Now you might actually have something there.

JM has already pulled Ranger Boats from the Pros and went to a more "farm league" sponsorship for now-Pro guys and gals.

With them starting up the US Open National Bass Fishing tourney they might be going to try to build it up and pull some pros back away from the other leagues?

One thing is for certain that it will be a stepping stone for Bassmasters and the MLF if they lose one of the biggest and oldest sponsors.

even if they weren't unhappy with the format Big O would find a way to make it seem so.

The quanon guy ended up being some fat loser in his basement...

Oh boy

Say what you want about Big O’ but Luke Dunkin is about as connected to the Anglers and Industry as any person in the sport. He was a FLW Pro Angler, Regional Sales Manager for TH Marine for 15 years, host of NPFL fishing show, a member of multiple product fishing teams (along side the biggest names), and routinely has the pro’s on his podcast and YouTube show, so he has relationships out the wazzoo.

He didn’t say all that much but he still said a lot.

That made me laugh out loud.

From today's Bass Blaster

No more jerkbaits or dropshots please.

I’ll take “what is the Alabama rig for $100”, Alex...

All fish caught using forward facing sonar must be hooked in the mouth.

I can’t ever remember anyone using an A-Rig. Do they allow it on BPT.

I think it has finally sunk in for the majority of them that they were severely misled back at the end of 2018 with the grandiose promises of having no entry fees, higher payouts, and them possibly becoming reality TV movie stars; and they are exiting the denial stage and are now entering the anger phase. MLF is showing outwardly signs of a rapidly weakening business considering their reliance on sponsorship monies, and visible lack there of. The anglers are becoming increasingly sensitive to all the changes and it’s obvious the crack in their secrecy bubble is getting larger.

At this point we’re down to just enough Pro Tours that having MLF exist is better for Pro’s than to have it fail. If they sold it would you change your view or animosity towards the tours existence?

Just my opinion, the bpt is splitting. I also think they will revert back to a system like they used to have in the selects and cups and the bpt will fall into the FLW tour. I have no rumor ar anything to back that up, it's just my guess. Basically, based on the changes. Just like the platinum trail that killed itself changing midstream doesnt sit well with anglers usually and theyve made a lot of changes. The nature of that is just going to divide them up.

I don’t see how having a group of people who have shown to be bad actors, and acting in bad faith in such a small industry is better for the pros if they continue to exist. FLW is collateral damage, but could be restored under the right ownership, but that wouldn’t happen over night. Right now, it’s just another run of the mill multi level league out there with no proper direction or line of advancement. The former FLW pro circuit has clearly been relegated to AAA status and is now without a AOY award that is of any relevance. What’s interesting is somehow finishes coming out of that circuit is still being recorded on angler records, despite BassFan’s published methodology of excluding AAA circuits such as the Bassmasters Opens. The only reason I can think of why it’s still being considered pro for rankings purposes is because BassFan is owned by the same that is majority owner of MLF. Nature has a way of cleansing itself.. it may take time, but eventually nature will take its toll on MLF and clean up the mess left in its wake.

Big O is old, Luke is not

FLW 2.0 is not a new term. It was created when BPT was formed because of their initial handling of sponsors and limiting which brand boats could be run at the time.
Obviously Boyd and Johnny had a divorce which is good because both are bad.

I think the BPT / FLW / MLF gets smaller. Big money wants more big money. It’s just not in tournament bass fishing like it is in other sports. Relatively few people care about tournament bass fishing.

Quite a few unhappy but that’s pretty much been the case forever. It’s never going to be money like golf. Tough way to make a living.

throughout the south,high school fishing is growing tremendously and participation has already far exceeded golf participation.....it stands to reason the parents and relatives of these kids are going to become fans of the sport....MLF with their acquisition of FLW has proved a tournament trail for high schoolers,college kids,beginning fishermen (Phoenix boat trail) plus tackle warehouse and toyota series of tounys....success in those trails will earn you a spot BPT and national TV exposure....
BASS has already tried to imitate MLF with their Fox sports coverage so it appears they are beginning to believe the future is going to be watching fishermen catch fish instead of walking across the stage and dumping fish on the scales...

LOL, stop. Bass fishing will never be Golf.
And....BASS has High School, College, and Amateur (BassNation, Opens, Team Series) paths to the Elites and National Tv exposure. All of which are bigger than MLF/FLW versions. No MLF program is broadcast live on TV like BASS is on FoxSports. MLF online show and studio host setup copied BASS Live if anything.

And those High School tournaments. Are they 5 fish or every fish?

You are so full of [censored].

Not since the BPT started, back in the Cup only days they did allow it.

When I am buying something that requires me to deal with a salesperson, and part of the sales person's pitch is to bash his competitor, he has lost my trust. Let your product shine and focus on the good your company and product have to offer. I can't trust a guy who spends all his time bashing his competitor.

Almost have to sympathize with him. My guess is beartrap has been tasked by somebody with repeatedly reciting individual talking points selectively picked from a poorly written pitch deck that someone in MLF’s 3rd rate marketing dept. produced. Some of the stuff he recites is nothing more than marketing bling that has no foundation of truth behind it, if put into a comparison with BASS context. I always have a good laugh when he reminds people of MLF TV air time, it’s almost as if he thinks it’s a positive thing for people’s attention to be drawn to the fact all MLF TV time is of events that were conducted “MANY MONTHS AFTER THE FACT” on a little watched back channel on the cable providers menus.

Pot meet kettle.

Second guess: All Anglers must fish in an area with Cell coverage for ScoreTracker.

Third guess: We want to be paid what we were led to believe we would be paid!

Drama is for losers

Good assumption, would make sense after what happened at the last event. Could see that not being popular with the anglers and I don't like it either, that current impedance rule seems to be a more happy medium.

You are speaking in 1st Person now!

That is something you have never done before!

So you would rather not get a check if you don't make the cut, ala Bassmasters, than to get a check, albeit a smaller one, even if you don't make the cut, ala MLF BPT?

Well said.

Have any of you noticed something missing in all the photos of Ott post his last win? Something that typically is shown with prominence after every win by anyone. It all of a sudden disappeared from the post tournament pictures. To your question:

I think the anglers want to be paid what they were led to believe they would be paid. All of them took a huge leap of faith based on some glossy pitch deck being shared by a dozen or so B.Duckett collaborators highlighting how their professional bass angling life will be improved by an order of magnitude if they quit something that’s proven stable and reliable. I think the anglers that moved over to MLF have experienced so much change that it doesn’t even closely resemble what they were led to believe it would be... and that includes the overall compensation.

I dont really think so. Our high school has a pretty big team and I bet there is only 2 or 3 parents that seem like they actually tournament fish outside being a captain. The rest could care less about a tournament on any level. It may lead to more anglers thru the students but I dont think its having an effect on parents. I'm not sure about copying in the fox broadcast, MLF doesnt even have live TV coverage. Also, BASS already has a huge high school program as well so it's most likely a wash on most fronts for the leagues.

So what's missing in the pictures?

Yes, inquiring minds want to know...

I'm guessing a check?

You would be correct. It’s interesting that stopped being a photo prop along with any mention of what entry fees and payouts are for the BPT circuit on its website. Compound that with all contacts being cancelled, it was announced entry fees were being imposed for 2021, and then everyone was rushed into signing a new single year contract many months before the start of the 2021 season; even before other leagues had concluded their schedules. I suspect some things are not living up to expectations, even after the contract re-write and frustration levels are increasing rapidly. Luke hinted at a large amount... it took the way more money carrot to move a large amount out of BASS... what else could it be to have so many anglers reportedly disgruntled? Follow the money!

Longtime lurker... Big O finally got me to create an account with their nonsense.

Apples to apples.

First post and he's bringing the heat. Welcome aboard Austin316 (hopefully a Stone Cold reference).

And as for no big check, it's 100% a prop and not needed. I would be ok with a cashier's check or direct deposit.

I believe I head on a BLT back in the fall that the entry fees were $2,500 for BPT? I can't/haven't confirmed that.

Thanks, Monty. Now give me a hell yeah!

And where again do they have those MLF/BPT apples listed? I wasn’t comparing it to anything, I was pointing out they aren’t listing the whole tournament payout, let alone what entry fees are.

If you’re going to bring the heat, bring something I am claiming doesn’t exist and prove me wrong.

Its a big conspiracy the guys are fishing for free. I had no idea the institutions in floriduh had internet access.....

Payout through the whole field - directly from BPT Rules section:

4. Prize Money and Qualifying Terms

Bass Pro Tour Event Payout:

1st $100,000
2nd $45,000
3rd $38,000
4th $32,000
5th $30,000
6th $26,000
7th $23,000
8th $21,000
9th $19,000
10th $16,000
11th-40th $10,000
41st-80th $3,741
Daily Big Bass $1,000
Overall Big Bass $1,000
Total Event Payout: $806,640
REDCREST Payout:

1st $300,000
2nd $60,000
3rd $48,000
4th $30,000
5th $27,000
6th $24,000
7th $21,000
8th $18,000
9th $16,000
10th $ 15,000
11th-20th $12,000 21st-30th $6,000
Daily Big Bass $1,000
Overall Big Bass $1,000
Total Event Payout: $745,000

That was just added recently and I mean within the last few days. I looked many times, particularly in rules because that’s where it’s typically listed, as it is with all the others. Divide that purse between 80 anglers, add expenses for event operations, add something reasonable for payroll and daily MLF staff and operations... what did someone say entry fees per event were?

Warren doesn't deal in facts. He will somehow dispute that. It's amazing he is allowed to continue to come on here and slander a legitimate tournament organization

I heard Panger say on BTL that he thought they were $2,500 an event. But in full transparency, I'm like 60 episodes behind (except for the one where they talked about Mark's accident). The last episode in September is the one I heard him briefly mention it.

I’ve heard a few things, but until it’s posted on their website like the other circuits do, I view it as speculation. With event payouts that high, not to leave without mention their need to fund the next championship as well, the total cost per event is getting up there pretty high. The raw cost of just the total event payout as it is would put it over 10k per participant. It’s interesting that payout schedule just reappeared under their rules... there was a whole thread a couple weeks ago about this and I am sure had it been there, it’s without question someone would had taken opportunity to throw it in my face.

Big O,,,If it bothers you that much why don't you just quit watching and do without the stress. There are a lot worse things going on in America than this but it seems to bother you quite a bit. You need to get a life.

If the BPT guys want to go back to BASS, all they need to do is pick up the telephone and give their credit card number and they are back. So far not that many have left.

Austin316 please be the anti Big O F, I couldn't stand that POS so bad I put her on ignore.

Bringing the heat & the GIFs.

Just read that MLF banned Berkleys max scent line of baits. Saw it on a Wired2Fish Facebook post
Guessing that was the major announcement Bassblaster was talking about.
O your dream of the MLF folding is still just a dream at this point.

They will welcome them in the opens but they will have to requalify for the elites. BASS isn't going to cherry pick anglers from other tours anymore. Ask Jacob Powroznik.

To the BASS Opens but not the Elites. As Chris pointed out you they will have to requalify.

So some of the "big dogs" got tired of getting their brakes beat off up north. Maybe the dumbest rule I've seen added.

While watching the final day of the Rayburn event, I saw Gerald Spohrer get into the middle box and get a new craw for his swim jig. It was 100% a Strike King Rage package. I'm not certain which exact bait, but it was the Strike King Rage line of baits. The top 10 bait's article showed Missile Baits (who he is sponsored by). People have been using non-sponsored baits since the beginning of time. I guess the number of non Berkley pro's outweigh the actual Berkley pro staff guys. I'm assuming this was voted on by the Angler Panel.


See Mark Perry's reply below with link to MLF

The ones who would leave are so good they would only need to fish three opens to requalify for the Elites.

Wired2Fish MLF BPT Bans Berkley Max Scent Link

So max scent is an evolved into an unfair advantage but electronics (Livescope) have not?? Hmmm

MLF BANNED MAXSCENT?? That’s nuts.

If there was ever a story made for April’s Fools Day, this would be one. Cannot be a real story, utterly stupid if it’s true.

I thought the same.

It's too early for that... But I did a search trying to determine if it was legit from MLF in addition to W2F. I found something interesting on their website touting the product release...
https://majorleaguefishing.com/reviews/2018-11-27-review-berkley-maxscent-creature-hawg/

The keeping of "Gulp" but not "MaxScent" is confounding. I personally don't like the MaxScent, because I can't stand the smell of it, and don't like the texture/action o the baits. But an unfair advantage because of sponsorship, it is not. If they want a "Level Playing Field", then go back to the identical boats, and limited tackle/rods provided by the Event Sponsors!

Its a joke.... heck halfway thru the article it say "advertisement". This is just some good pub for berkely.

Its an April Fool's joke

https://majorleaguefishing.com/berkley-maxscent/

Dupe me once, shame on me... Dag Nabbit how does that go?

Ya think? Have any of you taken out a calculator and figured out how that $800+k payout for BPT regular events is sustainable for MLF?

Wait, let me get this right. 50+ of your posts on here have been about them running off with money and now you've done a complete 180 and they're now overpaying and that's why they're not going to make it?

I have to say, that was probably one of the best advertising plug that Berkley prob has ever had.

I always find it entertaining reading the posts from Big O. He seems to have super insider information on the state of mind with the MLF pros as well as a deep understanding of the MLF financials which I am sure he has full access to. However I think we can all agree on the following:

1. MLF has the top anglers in the sport. I don't think this can be disputed. If you look at the list of winners of the Bassmaster Classic from 2001 - 2019 (which covers 18 years), 16 of the winners (some are multiple winners, I get it) all fish MLF. Ike is fishing nothing, and Jay Yelas is the only Classic winner to still be with BASS. If MLF was broken, or unsustainable, these guys would just jump back to BASS because if I am correct...if you wil AoY or Classic, you can get an exemption to the Elites. Even if they have to pay entry fees again, apparently they don't care as they haven't left.

2. Compare the rosters of the two circuits. I think we can all agree here that the only reason the majority of the people fishing the Elites are fishing the Elites right now is because all the talent left and went to MLF. Had those anglers chosen to stay in BASS, the majority of those fishing the Elites now would not even be there.

3. Go to basspro or any fishing taclkle store...the majority of the baits on the market carry the names of MLF pros.

4. Economic impact - I can agree with Big O based upon his Data that when an Elite tour stops at a place, they get like a million dollars injected into the economy. That is great for the local economy. That being said, MLF having their Lake Fork tourney broadcast on Discovery, Outdoor Channel, etc probably impacted the Lake Fork economy 10x the Million that the local BASS stop did simply because the exposure is 10x that having a "big stage" locally has.

Those are just a few points that I see. I happen to watch both and also like both. However, I feel that MLF has a better product right now, and they also have the Elite of the Elite anglers in the world fishing for them. Their organization is relatively new compared to BASS, but they have made a huge impact in only a few years. Time will tell who will win out in the end, but if I am a betting man, my money rides on MLF right now simply because they have the best talent in the world from an angling perspective, and BASS has the second tier and will for the forseeable future.

Who built all those "names"?

And who will continue to build the names?

End of discussion.

Some valid points. I think recognizing that both circuits have a place is healthy. If someone, say Big O, doesn't like a certain circuit - don't watch it. I enjoy them all, and heck - I'll even watch TNPFL if it's on because I just enjoy competitive fishing.

With that said, I don't necessarily share your opinion on point 2. A lot of MLF pros have fished opens in attempt to requalify, but it's really not that simple. A lot of the new blood in B.A.S.S. are absolute hammers, too. I would actually argue that the B.A.S.S Opens are the most difficult circuit to fish across the board. Opens typically have MLF, B.A.S.S., and your local sticks trying to jackpot the tournament. You have to do that each tournament and rank high enough to even get an invite to the Elite field. There are plenty of guys in the Elites right now that have every right to be there, but they just aren't known - YET. I could go on about some of these guys qualifying in the 1990s, and since the sport has grown 100x making it more flooded with talent, but I am not trying to spur an argument - just wanted to offer a different perspective on the talent.

The fisherman, by winning tournaments lmao.

Agree with UTDmiller. I am not bashing any circuit by any means. However, if those names left one organization for another en masse, there has to be an underlying reason. They haven't returned en masse, so they must believe in what they are doing. In a few years, this will all shake itself out.

Agreed. The anglers build there own brand. I will give all the credit to BASS and FLW for giving them the platform to build that brand.

[/quote]

Who built all those "names"?

And who will continue to build the names?

End of discussion. [/quote]

The fisherman, by winning tournaments lmao.[/quote]
Agreed. The anglers build there own brand. I will give all the credit to BASS and FLW for giving them the platform to build that brand.[/quote]

They were the 2 big shows in town at the Time, now MLF is there too. Bass and FLW made their brands off the best fisherman in the world too, kind of a two way street. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement

I think at some point yearly movement across all tours will be a common thing.

Not at all Mark; look at the title of the message and refer to post #1 and you’ll see it’s about speculating as to what could reportedly have a significant number of anglers at MLF upset. Since it was a money motivation that was the key driver to attract the majority of anglers over to MLF 3 years ago, and what we’ve seen since with departure of existing sponsors, lack of new sponsors, and the introduction of entry fees, which I remind you, “no entry fees” was the most prominent of all MLF talking points for year 1&2; it’s only logical to look at the MLF financial picture and see if that is something that could be injecting disgruntlement into their league. After all, money is the key driver in all of this. Can you reconcile how expenses for a tournament that publishes a base payout that comes at a cost of over $10k per participant is covered considering the appearance of minimal sponsorship support and extremely low entry fees by the anglers? Maybe the billionaires in the ownership that are covering the costs of those tournaments and daily operations, anything is possible.

"They were the 2 big shows in town at the Time, now MLF is there too. Bass and FLW made their brands off the best fisherman in the world too, kind of a two way street. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement"


Much better description. I totally agree.

The fisherman, by winning tournaments lmao.[/quote]
Agreed. The anglers build there own brand. I will give all the credit to BASS and FLW for giving them the platform to build that brand.[/quote]

They were the 2 big shows in town at the Time, now MLF is there too. Bass and FLW made their brands taking advantage of the best fisherman in the world too, kind of a two way street. It was a mutually beneficial arrangement
[/quote]

FIFY- that is why the best of the best left.

Well, the man most here hate, has gone with another multi-page thread. Big-O, bringing the life back to the Bass Fishing page...

I am not going to get into refuting point by point... I think I have at some point or another along the way. But will throw this question that pretty much dispels your tired argument about names and anglers... just what have all those anglers you (and they) proclaim are “the top anglers in the sport” won of noteworthy recognition lately? The answer - NOTHING! Not a thing of prominence have they not only won, but participated in. Just how long does someone retain the title of “being the best” at anything, when they haven’t won or participated in anything of significance for a long time? In the eyes of the sports biggest brand, that has the largest concentration of followers and fans, those names have become irrelevant. They are retired, no longer in the preset day picture. The organization they chose to move away from has moved on and are thriving while they have withered on the name and accomplishment recognition vine. Why, because they are no longer in any spotlight that only BASS could properly provide (and FLW to some extent). There was no talent drain away from BASS... the catch statistics have not dwindled in BASS tournaments because those guys left, so your claim of “talent” doesn’t hold water. If anything, compare catch statistics to MLF and you will see the “talented” have lost their “talent” since moving to MLF. Look no further than the last tournament they held and the weights and big fish. The product MLF is trying to sell has been rejected by sponsors and fans alike... and those purported big names didn’t make it any better by being there.

You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.

Someone gets it! BASS and FLW are the stages (brands) that made those names what they are. It’s amazing how many people just don’t see the big picture and what MLF tried to do. In short, a couple billionaires tried to acquire all of a small industry and make it their own little play thing and reality TV sandbox. They failed spectacularly after BASS shot them down, not once, not twice, but three times! FLW became a casualty and to highlight just how inept MLF leadership is, they literally trashed the only asset they got in the deal... the FLW brand itself; and it was done due to pure ego! And they wonder why they can’t get sponsors. No one in the small world of recreational fisherman (the customers and target of sponsors) knows who or what MLF is... they are not welcomed to their events, they’re not fan friendly, but they sure do know who BASS is and who FLW was... The individual names come and go, and if you’re good enough during your time you’ll be remembered as a legend, but there are very few of them. Those legends were built by the platform brands... BASS and FLW, not some unknown Major League Fishing that has an acronym that is more relatable to the adult entertainment industry than fishing.

What even more hilarious is they proclaim they want to grow the industry, yet they have done nothing to do that... unlike BASS who has pushed kayak tournaments in a big way recently, which significantly lowers the cost of entry to the average fisherman. Or score a long term deal to continue bringing their tournaments to LIVE TV! What’s MLF done... broadcast its tournaments 6 months removed from when they actually took place on some back channels of cable TV. And make it abundantly clear they don’t want spectators at their events. KVD who?

My counter argument would be, who created BASS and made it a big/Household name? Fisherman over time have helped make BASS what it is today, BASS overtime has helped make the fishing industry and fisherman who they are today. The Platform lives on as the older crew passes it down to the younger crew and so on. I think its pretty early to say that MLF has not been a platform for names to grow as it is still in its infancy in comparison to BASS. BASS in the beginning wasnt what it is today either.

You act like BASS or FLW had it all figured out in their first few years. MLF is trying to enter into a market that has been dominated by BASS for decades, things just dont happen overnight. This is taught in econ 101, there are barriers to entry and it takes time to build a brand, and how do you do that? Shocker, you have the best fisherman in the world compete in your tournaments, exactly what BASS did in the beginning. You disdain for MLF has driven all your statements and opinions, you are incapable of being objective as you have shown time and time again. Could MLF fail and be gone in a few years, absolutely, but to claim it this early is asinine.

And look, I do agree that a company is nothing without it's employees. However, the platform is bigger than any one person. KVD is KVD because of BASS, not vice versa. BASS has a history of being able to HELP talent develop into a brand. MLF does not (which yes, they are still young), however, we will see over the next few years if they are only able to feed off the big names, or develop talent on their own. I would say the Classic has been responsible for making alot of careers over the years. I do not see the redcrest doing the same (opinion of course).

Also I would say Hackney's comment about "When it comes time to register for BASS, I will be the first in line", shows a little disgruntlement against mlf. Why? Who knows other than the anglers.

For the 1000th time, MLF viewership, reach and sponsorship is running wide open and MLF series and BFL entries are at all time highs and their events are busting at the seams with anglers signing up. You live in a strange reality...

Wait, you mean to tell me that in 2021 that a company can earn revenues without people being physically present? I refuse to believe they have any financial success because they aren't renting out convention centers and bringing in fans.

Absolutely no way in the age of technology that they are drawing any revenues by streaming the events. Pshh...next thing you'll tell me is that people make money on YouTube. Please.

This is one of your funniest post yet

Mark, you always pop into these to recite your marketing jargon in support of MLF but in reality it means nothing unless your industry buzzwords are put into context and it’s shown what is being measured and if compared against something of relevance. That’s always missing from your posts. Why is that? When comparing an increase with something like zero, you’re always telling the truth. That’s the shady side of marketing... marketing people can pick and choose what they want to compare things to and always claim in advertising things are better with brand x over y. Kinda like all those auto manufacturers awards each brand seems to win year over year... the marketing geniuses figured out they don’t have to disclose those awards are being issued by entities owned by the brand they are reviewing and giving the award to. Same goes with your proclamation that MLF is the largest fishing tournament organization in the world, without taking into account BASS has over 500k members, where that is the only thing both organizations have as a prerequisite before being able to participate in a tournament. It’s hard to imagine how a metric like that can be overlooked when preforming an honest comparison.

I’ll keep it simple for you so there’s no “buzzwords” to throw you off. The context is real humans consuming content, accessing their platforms, watching on TV and competing in their events. Again, record numbers mean just that.

An all time high from? Because MLF's sample size is pretty small. They have only been in this particular capacity for a few short years. I am not saying you are wrong or right, I would just like a little more information. A youtuber could say their views are up 100% and it sounds really good. It is the information they keep to themselves that skews the statement. A) They have only had a youtube channel for 2 years, and B) their views are up 100% from 50 the previous year.

Their sample size isn’t small, it’s the largest in the industry across TV, digital and events. MLF regularly shares key metrics and information with sponsors and partners that need the data. It’s not a mystery for those who need to know.

He lives in a matrix. It really makes zero sense the way he behaves. It seems time that the real Big O tell us who he is

Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".

But Warren never backs up his claims. Jus like in this thread where he has said numerous time how MLF has lost a bunch of sponsors and not signed new ones. That is just a totally made up claim

Honestly, I know

Well. Undisputed fact. Watching a tournament that occurred 6 months ago, on tv at 9pm, after you know the winner, kinda sucks. I’d rather watch TTZ live weigh ins on my phone.

Good news is you can watch them Live.

If they have become irrelevant as you state, then why when I go to Bass Pro, Academy, etc to buy baits are their names so prominently displayed? Where are the "Hank Cherry" baits? The Luke Palmer baits? These guys have accomplished a lot in their time and I am not knocking them...but your commentary to Kevin Van Dam, Ott DeFoe, etc being irrelevant....well apparently that is not true or they would have been dropped by their sponsors a long time ago. And again I will state that if the MLF was failing, these anglers would have left long ago.....

Its no secret I prefer watching pros catch biggest 5 over more little fish, but I disagree.

Some of my favorite anglers today, I had no clue who they were prior to MLF. I never heard of Andy Montgomery prior to MLF. The one thing I will give credit to MLF for is giving anglers in the middle of the pack more exposure time. Even with the Elites, everyone knew the top 10 guys that were nearly always in contention, but I didn't know most of them. MLF has exposed more fishermen to the fans. Beforehand if you weren't winning, it was difficult to brand yourself. Now, we've gotten to know more of the anglers and their personalities. I think more guys are creating their own brand without having to win titles. Seems to me MLF has spread the wealth a little more amongst the participants in this manner.

And I am not saying you do or don't. All I am saying is Big O catches it for spouting off "unsubstantiated claims", yet I am not seeing one shred of evidence to dispute them. You say you know, and you might (that isn't for me to dispute), but saying you know and not being able to back it up is like saying you caught them in practice but only bringing 3 to weigh in. If you do know and you can't say, then just don't say anything. Sort of makes it seem like a power trip on your part. I do not know either way. I can make a semi-educated, very biased assumption based upon certain thing that have happened. So far I would say Big O isn't as wrong and incoherent as some have stated.

That is fair enough. Different perspectives I suppose. It doesn't matter what trail you are on, you have to be competitive to become well known and get exposure. Montgomery wasn't overly competitive on the Elites. Not sure how he is doing at MLF.

And maybe it is? I don't know. At this point I really don't know which side is more correct. I do know if they are made up claims, he generally presents them in a fairly convincing manner. I would like to see the guys who are disputing his claim say something other than "his arguments are baseless and have no facts". How do you know? What evidentiary support do you have to back that up? I would love to see proof on either side. I know Mark Jones claims he knows, and maybe he does, however saying it and proving it are not the same. Verbalizing basic marketing rhetoric that they teach you in Marketing 101 isn't proof. Surely there is a way to more substantiate any of the "false claims".

Look, Warren's shadow... Dan

Big O catches it because he's non-sensical and crosses over himself in every other thread. He brings that on himself.

MLF/BPT produce their TV numbers regularly for all to see and they're ratings numbers that no one can argue, they just did a full digital recap for all to see from Redcrest and on the Big 5 side their numbers in terms of participation are at all time high and that's all time for FLW. The data is NOT hard to find. Big O just likes to dispute the data with no substance whatsoever behind his conjecture.

As far as his claim of MLF hurting because they lost sponsors and can't get new ones. All you have to do is look at their list of sponsors

"I made up claims about MLF but you need to prove me wrong, otherwise you're lying"

Umm.....wtf?

Josh...look around, you're the ONLY person "convinced" by Big O. That should probably tell you something...

Didnt someone come on here and refute numbers from BASS that came from the same sources that MLF uses? That basically says, you can make the numbers look how you want, especially when you own the broadcasting channel. Now I'm not saying MLF is doing horrible, but I can say there was not hardly a mention of MLF tournaments for most of last year and even for redcrest on here or BBC. Theres a thread for every elite event I believe. So, maybe MLF is doing ok outside of the tournament fishermen industry, but it sure doesnt appear that they are doing so hot with it. I guess if that's good or bad will tell the tale. TV numbers look good and all but if sponsors dont see returns they will pack it up, no matter what league they sponsor.

You don’t see a problem with that do you? They produce their own numbers, most understand that could lead to manufacturing their own numbers. Especially when the metrics used to calculate the claims being made are not also included so people can understand how they are being measured and against what. Would their numbers and how they are interpreted withstand a independent audit by an accredited accounting firm?

Again, it’s the bold claims that get challenged... you know, Redcrest being the super bowl of bass fishing, MLF being the larger bass fishing organization in the world, the worlds best anglers, and on and on that brings on the frequent scrutiny... and people are just expected to believe what’s coming from the marketing mouth? I think not!

I try to stay out of these, but Big O is just spreading to much slander. First, his point about saying what have the pro's on the MLF BPT won lately. Well they have won Tour events and Redcrest. What have the BASS Elites won outside of BASS? It's a dumb argument, it's like asking when the last time Frisco Roughriders (AAA baseball) won the MLB world series. Second, the point about making up TV numbers and digital. First of all you can't make them up, they come from independent audit sources such as Nielsen. While you jazz up any kind of number, it's still doesn't change the number and those in the business realize the context and what that number really means. Plus all of the ad agency people that are buying ads from these guys look up the numbers themselves.

Big O was personally hurt by MLF and now has a personal vendetta against them. The dumb arguments he brings up is getting old.

^^^^^

What are these tour events and Redcrest? No one heard of them or knows what they are, but people sure do know what Bassmaster Elite and Classic events are. They have seen, and still see them LIVE on TV. And I disagree about the source or calculations of numbers being independent from an audit. I highly suspect MLF/KSE (or contracted affiliates) are the ones calculating and selecting what numbers are released and in what context they are presented.

You would probably hold a grudge to if you were one of the anglers that got the screws put to them by the MLFers. It’s just a matter of time before mlf falls on its face.

If you’re going to accuse a company of cooking the books, you should prove it.



If it’s insignificant, unimportant, irrelevant, out of the spotlight, have zero talent, etc, then I’d let it go. It’s not a threat to BASS, so why spend time discussing it?

As is typical with many of these threads, they get sidetracked from the question or subject of the original OP. Surely, if the amount of anglers are not happy with MLF that is suggested in the linked podcast is true, then there is a consensus amongst them and they’d be speaking about it with close friends, etc.. on the down low. Back to the original topic, what is it that has happened or been recently announced to the anglers to upset that many so quickly? None of you MLF devotees have connections from within to find out what’s going on?

You should change your screen name to Big C Florida. BIG COMPLAINER. THATS ALL YOU DO ALL THE TIME ON HERE. Get a life already, time for you to move on to another forum. This is the TEXAS fishing forum and people are tired of an outsider complaining ALL THE TIME. Find a Florida forum to go to and stay there.

He's probably been banned from most forums. He only lasted a few days on bbc before he got a per ban

If anyone here don't like BigO, then why don't you leave. Save yourself some stress.
BigO makes way more sense than most of y'all because y'all don't know what you're even talking about and
Mark Jones spelled out why you don't know earlier in this topic,
Quote
"Their sample size isn’t small, it’s the largest in the industry across TV, digital and events. MLF regularly shares key metrics and information with sponsors and partners that need the data. It’s not a mystery for those who need to know.

So... who knows really besides MJ and whoever else "needs" to know. I sure don't.

I do know that BASS has been advertising the Sabine River tournament heavy around here with TV commercials and billboard signs in all the towns around here, not just Orange. Even during the evening news broadcasts I've seen the advertisements on TV showing the attractions they have planned for the locals to come out and enjoy the several days of fun and festivities they are offering for anyone to come out too and enjoy for FREE.
It's not just a small street corner gig either. it will be several city blocks worth of stuff to do, including a carnival for the youngsters and lots of food vendors and local businesses with canopies and displays set up.
In the past they have had tournaments where highschool anglers who qualified got to fish a tournament in the boat with some of the pros who didn't advance to the final day and they weighed in on the big stage right before the pros weighed the final day.
They allow a lot of highschool anglers and youth to help with the weigh ins and they can interact with the pros and be a part of the show.
They also give away BASS memberships to some of the youngsters there. Not because they are desperate for members like I've seen stated here in these forums by BigO, BASS distracters or haters or whatever they are, but because they are BASS and that's what they do.
Come on down and see for yourselves and have some fun and see what a BASS tournament is like when the fans are involved and welcomed by the host.
It is special and I am thankfull that they are coming back here to fish the Sabine River system.

That is not how it works!

If you make wild accusations the proof is on you to provide the details not on us to prove you are wrong.

We are still waiting for Big O to bring the proof for every thread he has made.

Since no one knows who he really is he is the only one that knows if what he says might be true but we may never know.

I am sure he will reveal all of this in the very near future!

Go eat some more crow Big Ho! You have been weighed, measured, and found wanting! Lies, lies lies!

MLF paid out $808,000 to their anglers at Rayburn. Look it up chump!

No BASS hater here 1442. I love both tours! Happy for Orange and all of Texas. Big Whatever is trolling though, I’m surprised you can’t see through his bull.

Wasn't he seminole wind over there?

They give away subscriptions for free to meet circulation numbers promised to advertisers so it ain't all roses.

Either you have Big O and Mark Jones mixed up, or I’m lost.

Bottom line is, Mark Jones has publicly disclosed his affiliation with MLF many times and speaks from a position of knowledge. No, that doesn’t mean he can disclose specific details, but at least his allegiance is known and he uses his real name. And he also doesn’t start 1,000 threads bashing the competitor. The difference is, he responds to Big O’s vague claims with first-hand knowledge (even though he can’t disclose proprietary facts) and doesn’t start threads that are anti-BASS.

Big O, meanwhile, starts many threads bashing MLF and posts in most, if not all MLF threads, with information that is 100% negative towards MLF. He’s either making it all up or he is affiliated in some way with the bass fishing world (former FLW angler, bass angler or somehow otherwise spurned by MLF) without disclosing his affiliation and also behind a moniker.

He might be right about all he posts. Maybe he’s somehow related to someone who was sorted by MLF. The difference is he’s doing it anomalously and with complete hatred without disclosing his sources or affiliation. It’s unnatural, unhealthy and, personally I think it’s silly. Right or wrong, just disclose his identity and then we can all be on the same page. My assumption is that Its too late to disclose his identity, because he’s said too much. If he comes clean, it would be the end of his career or damage whoever he is affiliated with. That’s the issue. Not that he bashes MLF, but that he does so repeatedly anonymously.

RIGHT!
BigO has to prove everything he says, while a bunch of snot nosed wannabes just drivel out nonsense and childish statements against him over and over.
I don't give a rats asset either way weather what BigO says is true. I have no way of knowing for sure but he has his opinions and I like to read them with an open mind. Most of the time he says stuff like "I think" or "It appears" to be like this way are another. He aint being disrespectful to other members here but a lot of members like to gang up against him and want to run him off.
Most of what is said against him is just plain childish gang mentality stupidity and should not be allowed to carry on like it has.
A lot of ya'll can give your opposing opinions in a respectful manner and that is good, and what these boards are about.
Hypocritical posters demanding him to prove his points while making outlandish claims against him with no proof, or totally unreasonable statements, are the ones who should be ashamed and embarrassed with themselves. Like those who choose to put down Bass just because BigO puts down MLF and puts up BASS.

Grandbassslayer, Can you prove that? or is that another childish hypocritical statement because you want to be part of the gang that is against BigO, or are you against BASS? I wouldn't really care but you said it in response to what I said so I'm gonna call you out on it.

Have any of you ever witnessed the excitement of a young angler when they received a LIFE TIME MEMBERSHIP to BASS?
I have on multiple occasions, and it is a wonderful thing. Hard to believe that grown men (maybe grown men) would feel the need to belittle BASS for doing that. It's truly a shame.

Duckhunter,
You're lost,
Mark Jones said the numbers are reported to those who need to know. That might as well say I can't tell you because it might prove what BigO is saying is true. It might might not, but it's no more factual than what BigO says when I read it.
I respect Mark and I respect BigO, I read what they both say with an open mind. I was just pointing out why no one can actually ague that point about the numbers except Mark or anyone else who needs to know. I don't need to know myself cause they aint told me.

You just stated that BigO might be right about all he posts. I'm wowed by that statement, he might be.
I don't really need to know who BigO is. I hear a few things about who Mark Jones is but I don't know him personally and can't really say I know who he is or anything about him. If he is affiliated with MLF, then I would expect him to promote and defend MLF, and I respect that,
but I also respect BigO.
I don't respect hypocrites and gangsters or people who extend their own opinions onto everyone else as if they are speaking for everyone when they speak.

Big O will win this in the end when Mlf falls on its face. Can’t wait to see who apologizes to him on here

I read everything with an open mind, except and until it becomes childish playground silliness. Like JP said, I’ll listen to any salesman until he starts bashing the competitor. Then I’ve lost all interest and now I’m skeptical.

Either Big O has an affiliation he should disclose, or he is a troll making things up. Even if it’s the latter, it’s still ridiculous to have this agenda and obsession that makes up 100% of his time on the TFF.

This is beyond opinion. It’s vague insider knowledge cloaked as fact and repeated disinformation without disclosing his identity. There is a huge difference, regardless of how one feels about either tournament trail.

In this thread he has said that MLF means nothing. He spent 100 words saying MLF literally has nothing to compare to BASS and the anglers who left bass for MLF are now worth nothing, because MLF doesn’t even count because no one cares. That’s beyond liking one trail over another.

A lot of people in the bass section have said they like both trails. Big O has an agenda, and the difference between him and Mark Jones is he won’t disclose his affiliation but can’t keep MLF out of his posts. Everything is negative regarding Bug O and MLF.

“I don’t respect hypocrites or gangsters or people who extend their own opinions onto everyone else as if they are speaking for everyone when they speak.”

So, the guy who uses his real name and discloses who he is affiliated with is a hypocrite and a gangster, but the guy who uses an anonymous handled and spends his entire existence on the forum to bash MLF is A-OK and knows what he’s taking about?

I think you’ve got it backwards, man. That was my point earlier. Thanks for coming out.

That’s not the point. He may end up being right about all of this. It’s that he won’t disclose who he is and he routinely bashes one trail with vague “facts.”

This entire debate has degraded into ridiculousness beyond normal Internet banter. It’s personal for Big O.

Duck hunter
That's cool
I just don't see it the same way when I read it I guess. I don't take most of what BigO says as stating facts but more throwing out possibilities. None of it bothers me to the point that I want to see him be pushed off of these forums.
I just really enjoy reading the banter between BigO, Mark Jones, and anyone else who states their beliefs and or opinions in an at least semi respectful manner.
It's the lynch mob mentality of people calling him names and repeatedly attacking him with disrespectful childlike tactics, in every post he makes while calling for him to be banned. It's worse than what he does in my opinion and if BigO has to go, then they should be gone too.

I'm typed out for now,
See yall later

wait a minute Duck hunter
I didn't say that about Mark.
I was referring to Hypocrites and I don't think Mark is one.
Whats the coming out deal all about. Do I get a label or something from you?
You really are loster than I thought seems like but I aint got time to explain it to you right now.

I’m not necessarily convinced either way. I’d just like to see and hear more information given on both sides as to back up their claims. I’m not as convinced that O is as wrong as many of you guys say, or that Jones is as right as many of you believe. Maybe there is a happy medium to the truth on there somewhere. It can’t be all good over there in the mlf, because the ones that left got out of there quickly and didn’t want to look back. On the flip side, it can’t be all bad or everyone would have left. However, contracts are up at the end of this season so I’ll be curious to see what happens.

Yes

Well if everyone who doesn't like big o left. There would be about a dozen people left on this site. You say big o makes sense. Did you miss it went he spent months trying to convince everyone that BPT cancelled the Redcrest and stole the purse money. When in actuality all they did was move it from fall to spring. Have you not seen him claiming that BPT has lost most of there sponsors and can't get new ones. When actually the few they have lost are just normal turn over and they are constantly signing new ones. Have you not seen his nonsense of claiming all BPT anglers are washed up and insignificant. I'm not sure how you could think that makes sense with guys like Wheeler, Lee, Evers fishing BPT just to name a few. If you think his post make sense. You need to look past your dislike for MLF and actually read the nonsense he post

I'm glad i don't know anything

As has been noted many times by numerous other board members, I don’t have a problem with anyone voicing an opinion here or providing feedback, nor do I have a problem when someone posts something contrary to my opinions. My issue with Big O is the shear insanity of his/her posts and the lack of factual information. They’re filled with conjecture and ignorance at every turn.

Also, as many others have said, if we knew who he/she is then it might actually add some validity to his/her position and his/her arguments here, although I highly doubt it. Regardless we aren’t getting an answer to that lol.

BASS is going to be fine, MLF is going to be fine and fans have a lot of great options available to them.

Dubee,

You and duck hunter both are making claims about me that I DID NOT SAY.
Y'alls obsession with BigO is affecting your comprehension skills big time.

I said BigO makes way more sense than most of y'all. You just reinforced that for me because you are making no sense at all.
Show me where BigO said MLF can't get new sponsors.
Maybe he said that and I missed it but I don't think that's what he said. You want him to back up his claims, Back up yours!
Back up your first two sentences in your last response with some facts while you're at it. You can't do it because that is your opinion not based on facts at all.

Meanwhile, back to the OP... if what was implied is true, that there is a large number of anglers not happy with MLF my bet is going to be it’s a money issue. That’s the one thing that would unite a large group of people all at the same time. Paying entry fees when they were promised they wouldn’t be has to sting... if payouts are now somehow going to be impacted, that just may be the last straw. As it stands right now, base payout as listed would require each angler to pony up over $10k per tournament just to make the purse. They need a lot of outside revenue help to pay out that big of a purse, and seems enough is not coming in. Regardless of what some on here say, the MLF/BPT is obviously struggling with obtaining and retaining the sponsorships needed to supplement the revenue needed to make the tournament payouts as they are currently being posted. I think some mistakenly conflate sponsorship for the MLF/high school circuit or MLF/Toyota Series as being a “MLF” sponsor... while technically true, what they are paying into is designated for the high school or Toyota Series circuit only, not supporting the other circuits, like BPT.

So my guess is money... all those statistics being viewed and recited through rose colored glasses seemingly isn’t enough to convince the “smart money” to come off the sidelines and into the MLF/BPT coffers, and now the anglers are seeing (or going to soon see) the changes needed to stop the billionaires from bleeding red ink.

Ok, I get it. You are just like big o. No matter what evidence or what anyone says. You are going to interrupt it and spin it your way. Go ahead and agree with your leader. The man constantly post made up nonsense that has no merit. But believe what you want. Lmao

Mark
You have an issue with BigO
He has an issue with MLF
Y'all both have opinions and state them well.
That's all good.
I have no issues with you or BigO, and I like to read both of y'alls opinion.
I'm too ignorant to know who is actually stating facts or not but it don't matter really, it's just entertainment for me.
that's why I'm here. I know that may sound silly but I don't have cable TV and I have not seen a BASS or MLF show in years except for live in person BASS tournament attendance that I get to do ever now and then.
My issue is with those who want BigO banned for lack of facts or lack of identity, when they have no facts to back themselves with, nor identify themselves either which would be Ok if they would extend that same benefit to BigO

One thing that is so often mentioned but ignored herein is the simple idea that if someone don't like what BigO has to say. Don't read his posts. THEN for sure don't respond to them.

I wanted to acknowledgment this post that got buried too fast. This is how BASS rolls... and I think their core, long time sponsors would have it no other way. I hope the event has good weather and water conditions so Sabine River can be spotlighted on the BASS big stage, by big names, catching the big bass... and that benefits the local community for years to come by added awareness of the fishery that results in more tourism for the area. I hope you and all that attend have a good time!

IMO he/she/it should be banned for Rule 8 of the Forum Rules because he is the literal definition of a troll. I could not care less about who he/she/it is.

Bandit200xp
That made me chuckle.
I wish I was that smart
but dang, I stepped in the poop and have gotten it all over me now.

Wow really? Give a membership to a kid and you look at that negatively?

Thanks BigO

Walls, you call it trolling and want him banned.
I call it entertainment and want him to stay.
Did you see what Duck hunter said? " He may end up being right about all of this" referring to BigO.
That is stuck in my head for some reason.

I gotta go to work now, It's gonna be my first day back in three weeks, so I'm real happy about that.
See y'all this evening.

The issue is these threads are always 99% speculation. They are played out, and all follow the exact same structure.

We get it, Big O doesn't like MLF - there's plenty of threads identical to this to support that. Mark Jones agency works with MLF, indicating he is very well in the know of how they are performing at least in the engagement side of things. These threads are just exhausting. I don't care if you like MLF, BASS, TNPFL, pineapple on pizza, or black licorice -- what I don't understand is the need to devote so much energy to letting everyone know you dislike it.

Regardless, you can't evaluate a business based on their outward appearance. BASS was in some hot water some years back, but they aren't going to publicize that. Why would a company, especially a small company, show the public they're hurting? Not good for business. MLF also ran into some road blocks - which is why they have entry fees now - which were voted on by the anglers. Personally it's all irrelevant. I am a FAN of the sport, not an investor in these companies. I want them to succeed because I enjoy the content that both put out - and that's all 99% of us in this forum are...just common people who share an interest in fishing. Let MLF and BASS compete for your viewership, and watch whichever one you enjoy...or hell, watch both if you can and want. Who cares.

You win my vote for TFF Best Response of 2021. Hope they let you use the company jet and sponsor you for a week at Camelot Bell as the prize.

Good points. Unless your goal is to become a professional angler, most of this stuff does not matter. Most of us just want some entertaining and educational bass fishing when we are watching video or attending an event.

We used to attend and photograph a lot of BASS events, but we lost all interest after dealing with the Gestapo ESPN media relations people. Prior to ESPN, BASS was very welcoming to press and outside promotion of their events and organization. They used to put on dinners, give out swag and do all kinds of cool stuff for the media that made you want to support them. Elizabeth and I loved and miss visiting with Gerald Crawford. He was such a nice guy and so full of knowledge.

We used to always post tons of photos of the Elite events and Classic. They got a lot of free advertising here on the TFF and also purchased advertising from us. We haven't followed the events in a long time. Hopefully the new owners are a little easier to deal with than ESPN was. ESPN killed all the enjoyment we got from photographing BASS events.

Big O, you come across as fairly intelligent. Do yourself a favor and back off your tirade. Try becoming a contributor of positive content here rather than the constant negative [censored]. I'm sure you have a lot to offer other than your current obsession.

+1

Where do you get that info? I have yet to see a free offer besides Bill Lowen giving a kid a membership which is quite different from what you claim

Big O, listen to the janitor please, it's in your best interest...

I'll also add this ... Big O, if you are in any way involved with BASS, this is one of the worst marketing decisions ever made. You are having the opposite effect you are working to achieve with most people on this forum.

I get the magazine for free every month, says compliments of BPS, no way Johnny Morris is paying for those- if he is its greatly reduced.

I figured you were loving all these pageviews! JK

But this is a very accurate statement. Look around Big O & Josh Seale....nobody is making threads bashing BASS. This is more about countering a few cyber "bullies" that want to constantly poke and slander MLF. The guys sticking up for MLF also support/watch BASS.

Big O's behavior has literally made me view BASS differently. If it comes out that he/she works for BASS in any way, that's a horrible look for them.

Can they track his IP address?

This is not about bashing MLF or exposing the sinister truth behind the organization. This is about 13+ pages on every thread of agitating people because he knows it will. Just about every single post he has written has contained some negative dig in it towards MLF. Even when posting on a thread that has nothing to do with MLF he tries to hijack it and get s*** rolling.There are times his points seemed valid others just prove he is trolling. Personal example for me is when he claimed the cups were acted and directed. I asked why he thought that and as his answer he provided a pic of a Lucas Oil commercial featuring Rose and Montgomery. From that point forward zero credibility and personal proof enough for me he was a troll. As far as kicking him off the forum I don’t care one way or the other. Do it, don’t do it makes no difference to me.

this whole scenario reminds me of Brad on the bass fishing home page...he could start an argument on almost every topic....lot of good contributors got tired of arguing with him and left the forum....

Glad to hear you are heading back to work!

I think we can rule out Ott as one that is unhappy.

I sometimes try to present things in bite size portions to avoid going in thousand different directions like these threads always end up doing:

1.) Go here > https://majorleaguefishing.com/circuits/cups/results/ < and pick from the menus of events that’s happened over the past; you can go all the way back to when they first started them if you choose. Make note of some winners and top finishers in the events you looked at.

2.) Now, go here > http://www.bassfan.com/rankings.asp?archive=c < and find those winners and top finishers names in the world ranking list. Click on the names, and under the “tournaments finishes” tab under each name you’ve chosen, please try and find the record of their participation and placement in the “Cup events” you reviewed in step 1.

Post your findings here:

Again, I try to give people hints at what to look at that challenge their current way of looking at things. If you want to believe those events aren’t scripted and directed, that’s up to you.... but if those events aren’t being recorded in the world rankings, then please consider it’s likely not due to error of what’s being counted and how the rankings are calculated.

You are so full of BS. You are here to bash MLF any way you can. Unless you can immediately change your tune, we're done with you. Final warning.

Are BASS opens scripted. They don't count in the world rankings. But you know the cups are real tournaments. You are just being a douche

Big O you have one point seemed like a lot of the anglers didn’t like the 2 Ibs minimum weight cause their were
lots of legal fish caught that didn’t weigh probably more because they were post spawn. But people complained whe
all the 1 Ibs fish counted as well. Can’t make everyone happy and those that can fish will figure it out! In the Navy we say a bitching Sailor is a happy Sailor doubt your prediction that they will be a mass leaving or MLF going away isn’t right cause streaming events is the way of the future way more coverage of sponsors than ever before. I bet you’ll see them vote soon to lower the weight limit to fishing 1.8 Ibs and bigger in the future

Boys I would not try and get Big O canceled just yet. Better give it some time

You are watching a movie the end will surprise people.

The choice to know will be yours.

Pack would have blessed this post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYE-1HfReQo

When he gets banned. It will be because of him not anyone else

kinda funny that the janitor has spoken. I think its the last we will hear from the mysterious Big O. To piss JP off takes a lot. RIP big O

I've never seen Big "O" and Ken A. together, hmmmm...

Lol

Hackney won their "World Championship" and sort of smiled

How about the BPT fails
The MLF Big 5 will continue on

Mark you want to change "MLF" to "BPT" and wager a dollar?

Big O is not

Did he update his Facebook profile picture though? I’m being light hearted here and with the post above.

Apologize for what?

Had to see what the hubub was all about.....and youre telling me a viral/guerilla marketing post from Jay Kumar (whos kinda a clown/jokester if youve received more than one of his emails) had people thinking that MLF was going under?

I prefer watching BASS streams and on TV (mostly due to davy hite) but try and be totally objective on the matter....and its amazing how some have chosen sides seeing as how they have no real vested interest beyond viewing. That goes for the PRO BASS and PRO MLF crowds.

I’d rather watch MLF and BASS than 99% of the other lousy programming on TV

I don't think anyone on here thinks MLF is going under, except for the small handful of guys that have hated it since its inception. And very few have chosen sides. I think everyone that enjoys MLF also enjoys BASS. But a very small number of BASS faithfuls hate MLF because they took there hero's.

Snowpiercer on TNT is pretty good. Dont sleep on the office either....its such a non post-2020/PC show theyve had to cancel a couple episodes from syndication. theres still a good 5% out there...but the rest sucks....LIKE THIS THREAD

Why would the BPT fail? It is much more enjoyable to watch BPT than to watch an Elite or a MLF event- IMO.

The office is greatness

As would most here!

yea, the choosing sides just doesnt make sense to me...but then again its 2021 where polarity is the norm. Im just here watching

and yup...the office is gold! started liking it more when I heard they had to rip some episodes from syndication because they werent up to our 2021 morals and values