Sal survival rate for Ivie

Does anyone have the numbers yet? I've heard from a good source 2 dead and another 2 probably won't make it. Such a waste if this is true. No program these fish would've went right back in most likely after pics, etc. Atleast they'd have a chance at surviving

Here it comes!


Side Note: I can't find any information to the Sal survival rate on Ivie.

Lol

I do know for sure one of the early 14’s. That came straight from tpwd. Not sure about any of the others. Kind of sad. Would love to see these things released after a picture, but unfortunately they are not being released.

It is shameful. Take a pic, pay for your own replica. Save a fish.

I think the mortality rate on those big fish caught deep wouldn’t be any different donated or not. Folks keep them out of the water way too long haul around to show buddies and weigh at the marina. Heck guys are hauling in 8-12 lb fish to the marinas to be weighed. Are the hero pics worth that much? Some of these mortalities will happen regardless with TPW takes them or not.

we should all just agree to stop fishing for them entirely. Its a damn shame we stab them in the face for our own enjoyment.

Just playing devils advocate but how do we know the stress of being caught wouldn't kill them anyways. A fish that size is old and it could be stressful on their heart to fight being caught. Just a thought

Then there is the issue of 6 or 8 holes from a rig being yanked into it....

I agree with this. But that’s not the world we live in today. It’s the look at me crowd now, put our best 5 in the livewell all day just for the glory pic at the end of the day. I have never seen so many fish going in live wells on weekdays as I have last couple weeks, not all from Louisiana either!

100%. Guys are taking 8-9 pound fish for a ride to the marina just for an official weight. While I’m definitely not turning my nose up at a fish that size, my question is why? Even up to 12 pounds. Weigh it. Take a picture. Turn her loose. Especially this close to the spawn. So many fish have been taken out of the lake in the last few weeks.

Yep. You catch a 8-9 pounder, hold it over the side of the boat, snap a quick photo, let swim back to the bed.

All I catch are drinks anyways so it will never be an issue for me.

Hard for me to believe a fish released immediately or after some pics would die anyway whether donated or not. That means most big fish caught over 8lbs would be dying on any lake. Deep fish routinely get caught in winter on many lakes. The stress of the fish in the livewell, holding tank for hours, lack of fizzing, all adds up.

Thats because they wouldn't, they are stressed not being in their natural environement and thats what leads to them dying at Athens not the hole you punched in their lip.

I just saw a caravan of 10 boats with Louisiana Plates headed west on I20. They were carrying lots of ice chests.

Did they have the filleting tables in the back of their trucks?

This as all about money at this point. How much sponsor money would TPWD lose if they shelved the program.Texas has been stocking pure Florida’s since the mid 70’s and SAL started in 1986. ALL OF THE GIANTS ARE PURE FLORIDA STRAIN BASS AND WILL SPAWN WITH PURE FLORIDA STRAIN BASS IN THE LAKE....50 years of stocking and 35 years of science experiments is enough. Of course I’m not saying TPWD should stop any stocking but this seems counterproductive at this point....rinse and repeat.

I couldn't tell but each truck had a 50 pound sack of corn meal

Hell yeah!

Word is they’re going to hit Fork on their way back.

WHHAAAATTTT????

Throwing shade at TPWD????
Don't you know the first rule at TFF??
1. Thou shalt not say bad things about TPWD.

Everyone knows that there wouldn't be any bass in Texas if it weren't for TPWD.

Just believe the hype.
Just believe that Share Lunker is most awesome program ever invented.
It's so awesome that when you look at the glossy pictures, you wont dare to ask any questions.

Don't pay any attention to facts.

You know, facts like -
MOST of your fishing license dollars and boat registration dollars are used to:
Do boarder patrol work.
Helicopter surveys on private high fences properties.
Genetic and disease analysis for private deer breeders.
Fish and Game officers doing the jobs of municipal LEOs.
on and on.


Share Lunker . . . "Look!! an eagle".

Little dog. You just reminded me of this.

https://youtu.be/84bBzAxLXFY

they got yankeed?

A kick in the nads will get ya’ every time!


If these fish come back as having no DNA to the original SAL fry, then this is a massive black eye to the kill a lunker program. It will be proof that someone, whomever is paying for this program, is just wasting money. I don’t know if it’s Toyota or TPWD.


I’m glad it’s not my home lake though!

What out 4 that we’re caught year before last 2 died?Let Mother Nature do that deal!Sal puts some good genetics back!! But they were already there. Florida largemouth program should get the credit for the fish being the way theyare! People would probably freak out if they knew the truth about 10 pound plus fish being taken out of Ivie to be put in other West Texas Lakes!

Very true.

Hate seeing this news. I agree. Fish get stressed out from being caught, especially these older 10-16 pound fish.

Just think about it. If you’re 60+ years old. You’re old but still strong and virile and reasonably stable. You have your home and everything you need for survival set up.

And then someone grabs you and thrusts you in a totally foreign and barren environment. A sterile plastic tub and then transfers you to a sterile concrete tub for weeks.

It’s not hard to see why so few fish survive that experience. It’s easy to see how stressed big fish already become from being in a livewell for a few hours.

Let them get back to their environment and stabilize in the best way they know how to.

Keep on stocking Florida bass. No need to keep on grabbing so many fish out of those lakes.

Almost wonder if it’s the publicity alone that makes so many people donate their fish.

Great post!

now this might sound like a crazy questions, but I gotta ask. Do you all feel that you have more knowledge about black bass and freshwater lakes than the biologist and people that work for TP&W on the sharelunker program?

and I got roasted when I said I hope tpwd doesnt kill em all. So does anyone know the real answers on this? They love boasting about the SAL that get brought in but say nothing when it comes to the fact that some die and never spawn again.

I posted something on their FB page and also sent them a message. Interested to know.

Just because scientists have education and make decisions don't make them the correct ones.

OK...but thats not what I asked. I wonder if you all feel you know more about black bass than them...considering they have the education mentioned, but also have many more data points and experience with big bass than pretty much everyone else in the country and potentially the world. I dont think there is or has been anyone actively and continually studying big bass and how they function than the TP&W people. So thats why im wondering if you all feel like you know more than them?

EDIT:
The guy in the Miliken fishing video said he'd been doing it 20 years. Thats a lot of experience in addition to education.

One of the 17 fish submitted has passed, we have not had issues with any other fish.

PM from the program on FB.

BINGO!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

Education should never over ride common sense. IMO

I have seen fish and game Biologist make many mistakes in the field and refuse to say they made a mistake or was wrong.

As mentioned above all for the Glory !

I thought Catch And Release was a BIG THING at one TIME. Everyone was proud to catch a big one and release it.

At least they are trying. TPWD is leading the efforts nationally to improve fisheries.

None of you would ever catch those fish if they were released and you have zero clue about whether they would’ve lived or died upon release. It sucks if they died but its had plenty of years to reproduce its genetics. For all we know they were at deaths door from Mercury poisoning by eating too much fish.

It’s spawned enough, time to remove it? Fish die from eating to many fish?

Anyone notice they aren't even listing the Legacy class fish on the website https://texassharelunker.com/archives/?page=1

This makes 9 for Ivie.

Good grief. They're fish, not children.. Legally caught fish. They belong to the people who caught them.

Bockscar, catch a few 10+ pound bass and keep them in your livewell for a few hours and then you’ll understand what a stressed out big fish looks like and how easy and fast it can happen.

Pretty good numbers then so far.

My livewell is my trash can. Livewelling them and the effects has nothing to do with my point...which is that the TP&W sharelunker people know way more than any of us ever will.

To me its just so ironic that people are catching big fish and some people are complaining about the people who played a huge hand in making that even possible. One of the guys that caught one today was a semi local from San Angelo....figured a local wouldve tossed it back in based on a lot of comments Ive read on here 🤷‍♂️

Do you live in Texas?

whats it matter? First youre asking my hand and foot size now you want my location? LOL whats going on here

I’ll answer your question with another question and that will be that...What’s better for bass in a lake, a lake with healthy lush hydrilla or a lake with dead poison sprayed hydrilla? Yeah, there you go with your educated biologist BS theory.

agree to be honest

Id like to think the Sharelunker people are less involved and separate from those decisions and aspects of lake management, but I may be wrong. I also thought I read somewhere some of the spraying you see was done in part to satisfy property owners....but that mightve been florida, cant really remember. Its hard to be right all the time when it comes to nature since it tends to do its thing regardless of what we want it to do.

You are bringing up somethig im not debating or disagreeing with at all...but im still wondering if some of you all feel like you are more knowledgeable and better equipped to make decisions on best practice for growing big fish? I just really feel that the Sharelunker people know what they are doing.....and what is going on in West texas, and has continued to happen in places like fork really have me putting faith in the Sharelunker people.

The reel post was a joke.

I don’t want your location just wondering how a guy from Arizona or New Mexico can relate to a guy watching his home lake get raped. 9 fish over 13 pounds removed from ANY lake in 2 months is stupid, whether they’re donated or not.

Im from Texas, but I get the reach.

My home lake is in New Mexico. I do quite a bit of habitat work (or at least I did pre pandemic) with some of the people from NM over at Elephant Butte. Im also kinda a hippie when it comes to fish handling. So no...i dont live on a lake. But I do feel im a conservationist and have a genuine love for my home lake. I told Josh Jones to come to elephant butte on his facebook posts. Id love for him to show what might be lurking in the depths. Sure....no sharelunker in New Mexico so theyd go back in the water likely and not really the same. But i wish NM had a sharelunker program. And instead of trying my hardest to find the negatives in the catches and success of others on these likely once in a lifetime situations.....id get my butt out there and cast to get me mine. Thats just me tho.

You can take that for whats its worth to you. Wether that qualifies me to have an opinion in your eyes, or not...ill just leave on you.

Oh, you want to go there now...Fork sees the majority of the SAL fry, why aren’t they pumping out giant SAL’s every year? Shouldn’t Fork be the lake in the news, no other lake is groomed like it is. Yes, they are producing the majority of the SAL, but again the DNA isn’t matching up. The program has been in effect long enough now to say that the results just aren’t there. It was started to grow the world record bass, it’s not going to happen.

not really interested in arguing a point Im not making. All im saying....the select few that work with ShareLunker not only have more education on black bass, but also more experience and data points/sample size than anyone out there. Because of this I value their opinions and practices on how to grow big bass for an entire state...over the opinion of some people going off limited personal experience, and anecdotal second hand stories.

Its already been stated that 1 of 17 died. Thats great in my books. But im just trying to be objective on the matter with no dog in the fight either way....but I do appreciate what Texas does for bass fishing.

I have a buddy who caught a 13 in east texas today. His 5th 13+ ever. He has never turned one in. His lakes would get hammered if he did.

unless you're fishing a tournament where it gets stuck in the livewell all day then carried in a bag to a weigh in after which it is released.

This argument gets so old. It's worse than the MLF vs BASS debate.

. God yes!! Each person has their own choice to make. Not sure why some feel they have to push theirs onto others

True.

Smart man. You want to see your small local lake get beat to death turn in a SAL out of it, its about to happen to Coleman. They should add the option for the anglers to make the lake anonymous, their entries would skyrocket, but TPWD won't ever do that, they want the publicity.

If it's really only one (and I have no reason to doubt them) that isn't as bad as I thought it would be.

I really am on the fence with this program, would sure love the chance at making the decision though!

Good thinking! I would do the same.

After seeing that out of the last 17 turned in only 1 has died and the others are doing great, I’d prob turn one in. The lake I like to fish already gets the hell beat out of it 7 days a week so it makes zero difference.

To answer your question directly, I personally do not know more than the biologists at TPWD. I also do not have an opinion on the Sharelunker program good or bad. My point was just because people are educated and know a lot on a particular subject does not mean they automatically make good decisions. This is especially true where funding is involved. Now don't read anything into my last sentence. Not saying TPWD is doing this so they don't lose funding. My statements hold true to just about any field of study.

I think this is smart. I've never understood the need to tell everyone in Texas how many fish you're catching in a small lake. Does the guy doing it really want half of Dallas and Houston coming to his 500-2,000 acre lake?

There was a thread a few years ago titled "Bloodbath On XXXXXXX!!!" It proceeded to tell about how he caught 60-70 bass, 4-5 pounders out the wazoo, etc. A friend of mine texted and asked if I had seen it. He was incredulous that someone would post that about a tiny lake. Sure enough, it got so crowded that we didn't want to go there anymore.

Amen brother... Dan

And yet....they read and comment...

You don’t have to certify fish under 10 lbs in the SAL program. Not sure where guys are getting the idea that folks are hauling 8’s to the marina to get them certified. You measure, take a pic on the board, take a pic of entire fish on handheld scale, submit, and release. At least learn what the program actually is before you start dogging it out....

Would be awesome if they would come up with something similar to what the Toledo Bend Lake Association does. Give the replica to anyone who submits a Legacy Class lunker, then give them the choice to donate to spawn or not. Many are donating for 2 reasons, the glory and the replica. So give a replica and the glory, but then give them the choice to donate to spawn or release back into the lake. Maybe only the ones that donate fish to spawn can qualify for the annual drawing or give a way stuff. I love me some TPWD, not a biologist, just another armchair quarterback like everyone else in here.

You guys act like every 13+ lber in a lake is caught when a few get turned into the program. The lake will be fine. Can't believe how worked up people get about a couple of fish.....

Loose lips sink ships

now this might sound like a crazy questions, but I gotta ask. Do you all feel that you have more knowledge about black bass and freshwater lakes than the biologist and people that work for TP&W on the sharelunker program?

[/quote]

I’ll answer your question with another question and that will be that...What’s better for bass in a lake, a lake with health lush hydrilla or a lake with dead poison sprayed hydrilla? Yeah, there you go with your educated biologist BS theory.[/quote]

Id like to think the Sharelunker people are less involved and separate from those decisions and aspects of lake management, but I may be wrong. I also thought I read somewhere some of the spraying you see was done in part to satisfy property owners....but that mightve been florida, cant really remember. Its hard to be right all the time when it comes to nature since it tends to do its thing regardless of what we want it to do.

You are bringing up somethig im not debating or disagreeing with at all...but im still wondering if some of you all feel like you are more knowledgeable and better equipped to make decisions on best practice for growing big fish? I just really feel that the Sharelunker people know what they are doing.....and what is going on in West texas, and has continued to happen in places like fork really have me putting faith in the Sharelunker people.[/quote]



not really interested in arguing a point Im not making. All im saying....the select few that work with ShareLunker not only have more education on black bass, but also more experience and data points/sample size than anyone out there. Because of this I value their opinions and practices on how to grow big bass for an entire state...over the opinion of some people going off limited personal experience, and anecdotal second hand stories.

Its already been stated that 1 of 17 died. Thats great in my books. But im just trying to be objective on the matter with no dog in the fight either way....but I do appreciate what Texas does for bass fishing.[/quote]

Bockscar is making reasonable, well thought out posts. Not sure why people can't express their opinions without being harassed.

SAL - sounds good but doesn't work, propaganda at this point

I know we live in snowflake world now, but it’s called a “discussion”. He makes a comment and someone makes a rebuttal. If you see a harassment, then well.....

Dave Mercer made the exact same comment, people explained to him the negatives/positives. Neither Dave or Bockscar are crying about the discussion.

The only senario I might... just might turn one in is if I caught it at a lake I don't fish much away home and it was cold, basically the same situation the youtube guys had at Ivie in February. No way I'd turn one in from my home lake I've seen what the publicity they bring can do to traffic on a small lake and once it starts to warm up like it is right now that stresses the fish 10 fold and they kill them.

Sounds like you’re the guy that lets his dog [censored] in someone else’s yard! Hahahaha. Just kidding.
If ya catch the fish legally, it is yours to keep, release, donate, eat....it’s the law. Five a day.


......it’s a fish.

Catching a sharelunker, snapping a picture, and quickly releasing is easy to say for those that have caught multiple DD fish.

For a significant amount of these people, these are fish of a lifetime. If a man catches a true fish of a lifetime, I will never criticize his decision to do whatever he chooses with said fish. If I am lucky enough to one day catch a 13+, I will be calling the Sharelunker program. Can't say what I would do if I were lucky enough to catch a 2nd. If I catch a 12.99 or smaller and am not fishing a tournament, that fish won't see the inside of my livewell.

I don't think TPWD is to fault for any sharelunker deaths, it is likely handling in the field. If you are going to carry that fish in your livewell all day for a tournament, I think turning it into Sharelunker gives that fish the best odds at surviving.


I do question why people run to the marina with every 7,8 or 9 lb fish for a certified weight. However, I ran into a guy at Sandy Beach at P.K. one year that had a fish on a stringer that he just knew was the next lake record. I told him I had a scale if he wanted to get a weight before we started calling people. I grabbed the scale and when he lifted the fish out of the water, I knew this fish wasn't over 8 lbs. You would have thought his dog just died when I told him it was probably a heavy 7 and the scale read 7+ lbs. That man was convinced he had a 15+lb fish.

Let's include tournament fish. Over the weekend there were multiple 20 and 30 pound stingers weighed in. In some cases your looking at 6,7 and 8 pound average per fish. These fish are in a livewell for up too 8 hours. 17 Share a Lunker's and 1 has died.. And let's say 200 bass between 6 and 10 pounds. Are we 100% certain that they are all surviving. I realize they are smaller fish. But some of the 7 and 8 and 9 pound fish just don't grow to be over 13. Me personally I don't have a problem either way. I actually think catch and release has gone to far. Any angler has a right to do whatever he or she wants with that fish.

LOL, BTW I hate dogs

If I catch a 13lber, I'm donating it to be spawned with a genetic superior maie and have that fry stocked, getting a replica is a bonus. The fish may die, but the fish may die this year anyways. I would rather try and make the stockings in our lakes the best they can be rather than putting stockings from some random 3lb florida bass in the lake and hoping they have the right genetics.

Grape kool-aid tastes the best

Your negativity is really showing through If you don’t agree with his opinions why try to belittle him?

If I catch one. I'm donating just for the free replica. I'm to cheap to pay for one.

I’m no biologist but I would wager a lot of money that taking 9 fish out of a lake the size of Ivie caused absolutely no harm at all hell Toledo bend guys been keeping limits of bass for years don’t matter what size it is it’s going in the grease!

On the chance I get one. Take a pic and weigh her, then put her back. Good enough for me. If someone wants to turn theirs in that's fine too. It's a choice. Totally on the angler.

Well, when I catch one....errrrr....I don’t fish any lakes that have SAL bass in them. Never mind.

thank you sir! just trying to see things objectively.





I know we live in snowflake world now, but it’s called a “discussion”. He makes a comment and someone makes a rebuttal. If you see a harassment, then well.....

Dave Mercer made the exact same comment, people explained to him the negatives/positives. Neither Dave or Bockscar are crying about the discussion.[/quote]

In his defense....it did take me a long time to get a straight answer 😂

and dont assume i wasnt crying. im very in tune with my feelings, and liable to cry at any moment! 🤔

I think that was solidly debunked when someone explained that fish that size dont need to be weighed on official scales like the giant ones do. im sure some might do that...but I think people that know whats up arent doing that kinda thing.





great point and why this seems like a "throwing stones in glass houses" argument for all the negative for the sharelunker people. I dont go PETA....but im not a fan of tournament fishing when it comes to conservation. Lots of tourneys happen during the spawn, and we can talk till we are blue in the face about how that can have a negative effect on a fishery...but thats a separate discussion. I think a lot of you's are tourney folk....so just seems a little hypocritical and rabble rousing to talk down on the sharelunker program.

I just feel you all need some perspective, and consider what its like in a state that doesnt care about bass fishing very much if at all (new mexico for example, and I hear colorado too). I get it sucks to see bigs pulled out of the water....but if we are being real, were the locals gonna catch them? But all those big fish would never even be around and alive to be caught if it wasnt for TP&W and programs like the sharelunker program. And no no one is perfect....but the sharelunker people know what they are doing....and ivie daily is a current running example of this....in my opinon.

I’ve never fished TB but seen plenty of threads with guys complaining about the amount of fish being taken and the bass population suffering. Do a Toledo Bend search and see for yourself.

The chance of natural morality for a bass is about 25% on any given year. Only 1 out of 17 dying is pretty darn great in my book. Frankly they may have a better chance surviving in Athens than in the wild. I'm sure they are getting all kinds of treatments and the best care biologists can provide. Zero doubt in my mind the program is a net positive to our fisheries. I do wonder if at some point they have enough of them that continuing to bring them in starts to diminish the returns.

There have been 17 sharelunkers this year?

I got a buddy who works for them and he told me they massage them and give them beer just like the Kobe beef cows 🤔

Man that place is crazy. It's the only lake in Texas where you'll see coastal rope stringers towed behind boats full of bass. 3 out of 4 boats out there keep everything

just scrolled their facebook. Josh jones one was #591 and they are already on 602. So yea....sounds like 17 sharelunkers this year. Kinda seems like TP&W are doing a good job 🤷‍♂️

There’s the other high fence pro/sharealunker apologist! You must have been at CB the last couple of days!

Curious to know where you get your percentages and zero doubts and so on?

I was wondering the same. I just copy and pasted. Dont shoot the messenger.

Thanks TP&W. Greatly appreciate you and all you do to make Texas the greatest bass fishing state in the nation! We are so blessed to have you here in Texas.

Since we know TPWD doesn’t read this, you get one of these!

Frank is busy polishing Ken’s boat right now. Leave him alone.

Read my books and you'll find out where I get the percentages. PM me your address and I'll send you copies for free!

News flash: The SAL Bass that died had Covid 19 and refused to be vaccinated

Not sure what has been debunked. Saying i dont see the need in taking everyfish over 7 lbs to a.marina for a certified weight. If you follow Concho Marina on Facebook they are weighing tons of fish less than 10 lbs on a daily basis for people not tournament fishing. I dont blame the marina, they are doing a service for their customers.

Other part was 100% factual story.

Any idea how much one would be?

I checked with a few places around Fork a couple years ago, it was $600-700 I believe.

I got a buddy on FB that lives over in South Louisiana and he is always posting pics of people with huge stringers all heading to the same conclusion...#RIG

He showed several yesterday and one of them had a bucket of fillets and there 9 laying there with the smallest probably 4-5 pounds.

My buddy caught a DD in a local pond with a small hook in her lip. Snapped a picture and released her back. Within a week saw her dead on the bank. At least she looked like she dropped her eggs.

Every year it’s the same thing crying over toledo. Get over it already the lake has plenty of fish and plenty of people don’t take anything home.

Which do you do?

Getting so close to 10,000 post. Keep it up little fella.

Weeelllll, he is from LA Grout.........

I only keep fish from Texas they taste better.

Hilarious!

Cajuns gotta eat!

They must have really large families that don’t eat beef or chicken.......

You should see them during hunting season, some of them take a deep freeze with them to the deer lease. Not even joking either.

Yeah Darin, PM me your address too. I have a little surprise for you........

Meh. I’ll pass. How’s the high fence hunting err private pond fishing been? The regular lakes that the rest of us fish are fishing pretty good. Falcon is fishing good. Only 5 and 6 pounders though so not worth your time.

Them 5-6 pounders eat real good !Fried or on the grill!

Just a few years back there were 5 put in and 5 died.

Lets hope it is not another year like that.

Course the fisherman were to blame says TPW.

Interesting to hear the TPW say that when the fish were in the hands of the SAL when they died. They are never wrong !

How soon we all forget the bad news.

Yet texas leads the nation in big bass lakes so something is working that the TP&W is doing. Guess its not the sal program.

Well, when the DNA isn’t there tracing any of the big current fish back to the SAL program, you could be correct.

Blah ha ha!!

I would not say TEXAS leads the Nation in Big Bass or Big Bass Lakes.

Our TEXAS STATE RECORD OF 18 lbs from 1992 will not even Make Florida's or California's Top 50 list of big bass. Might think on that just a bit.

OH and they DO NOT HAVE A SAL Program.

If you go by what Florida and Cali. have done lately Texas is doing much better... I would take TP&W over anything Cali or Florida can offer... Florida in better than Cali but fishing in Cali has been on a decline in past few years.. Way to many regulations.. Heck most fisherman would take TP&W in a heartbeat over what they have in their state.

I would love to think on that a little if you can cite the sources for both of those lists?

Florida's state record is listed at 17.27 pounds.

Now Cali is a different story altogether.

I didn't find a "top 50" list from Mississippi, but here are 3 records:

Largemouth Bass 18.15 lbs Natchez State Park Lake 12/31/1992
Spotted Bass 8 lbs 2 oz Farm Pond 9/2/1975
Smallmouth Bass 7 lbs 15 oz Yellow Creek Arm (Pickwick Lake) 1/24/1987

Most of the state lakes have produced SAL weight or better fish; I know of three with a certified lake record over 15 pounds. There could be others.
Most of Florida's larger fish come from the northern half of the state. When I lived there, the fisheries biologists informed me that most of the southern half was not a preferred environment for fish over 10 pounds; the hot/shallow waters weren't survivable for them. Fishing/tournament results seemed to bear this out.

TPWD and SAL are two different entities. SAL doesnt have anything to do with lake management other than giving some fingerlings with a horrible survival rate. TPWD sets the regulations, stocking, and habitat management that's supposed to lead to bigger, better fishing. Besides the grass killing most people would agree that TPWD does a pretty dang good job of managing our lakes. SAL is a totally different thing but the two seem to get intertwined during these conversations.

California has a "Feed a lunker program" if it wasn't for all the trout it would be alot different. I think Texas is amazing, I think the SAL is amazing. I live in Kansas and if we go to a public lake and catch more than 3 bass a day and one is over 2 pounds you've honestly done something for the most part. They don't give two shi%% about bass in kansas. For a guy that makes a living on the TDWP's "baby" lake I can't believe how much you bash them. Seems to me like they have done you pretty good.

Kind of a weird deal having a guide from Fork that hates TPWD SAL program. Never hear any complaints about the SAL fingerlings or insane stockings TPWD gives the lake. Maybe moving the guide service to California or Florida to get away from this horrible thing TPWD is doing would help ease the tension... then you’d be in a real big bass state to boot!

Guys are oblivious to that and apparently so many can’t comprehend it, when they do read it.

Do you understand that big bass were being grown BEFORE the SAL program. Fish are being taken out of their lake, during/before the spawn, I think this is what some don’t like.

Texas sure has better fishing than NC. I have personal experience in that. Tired of catching dink Spots. Not many DD's swimming around here.

Shearon Harris is done, they killed the grass and dumped grass carp in there. They don't take care of the lakes when they start to age a bit. The stocking program is a joke for bass. BPT will be different this go around than the last time they were in the Raleigh area lakes. They are here during the spawn so it will fish ok though.

I commend Marc for speaking up. Do you think anyone from TPWD or SAL will listen to the average weekend angler? I doubt it. Maybe they might listen to someone who fishes almost every day and can see first hand the effects whether positive or negative the program might have on a lake. I don't think anyone complains about the stocking program other than some lakes receive very little help while others like Lake Fork reap the benefits every year. Remember, those stockings are paid for by Texans tax dollars and fishing licenses. They are not doing you a favor. They are doing what you have paid them to do so to speak. Big fish were in Texas and on this earth long before the SAL program. It wasn't the SAL program that brought Florida strain bass to Texas.
If bass with good genetics are put in a healthy environment to let them grow to their full potential then they will survive quite well without the help of the SAL program. Catch and release has done more to produce giant bass then the SAL program. JMO

Ok so hear is my thoughts on SAL . Started in 86 and was a good experiment at first but has not done well over all. I know so much more about the program from the inside out than a lot of you who think you know. I have worked with these guys for many years and I get to ask lots of questions and hear so crazy answers that and common sense guy would know they can't be true. They never tell the bad things about the program cause you sheep would not follow. You just assume all they do is the holy grail .

There are so many things about this SAL program that is just not worth doing. So lets back up a few years when Fork was putting them out daily. Now numbers don't lie and I can tell you the fish that died and never spawned are high. It takes 10 plus years to grow a giant and you or SAL take a chance of killing it in a day. If the spawn works then the survival rate of stocking the fry is 1 percent ! Why even disrupt the natural spawn and life of this fish. Not to mention hauling it in a truck 300 plus miles.

Some of you have lost it. You would not put your kids through this right ?? I know a fish that went in full of eggs and was there 18 months and never dropped a egg. Now that would probably have been 2 spawns in Lake Fork a additional 160,000 by TPW numbers of survivors. Ok now here are some numbers off TPW site to sit on. If they say 80,000 per bass make it and Fork at one time was like 274 entries you do the math and get 21,920,000 that could have been in Lake Fork.

They show we received 13.6 million at that time. Now that leaves out 8.3 million we not get back and their off spring as well. I am positive this program has killed Lake Fork in the genetic pool that is why you do not see big males or 15 plus pound female anymore. A few years back 5 went in a all 5 died. Tell me how that is good for any lake. I will give credit where it is due but if you knew what I do it would probably open a few eyes but then again some are just blind and stupid like sheep. They just follow and keep following .

I have donated to the TPW and worked on programs with them and I love these guys but I do not like the SAL program. Let nature runs it course. I am sure with IVIE putting out that many in a few years they will go back to just 8 pounders. It can no way help a lake that donates. If you were looking from a different view like Bucks, you think any Rancher would loan you his 200 class whitetail buck to every ranch in Texas but his own and expect to get him back in good shape and hope to breed in the next year. LOL You missed the year you gave up and you can never catch up. It is a terrible program with a very minimum reward. In fact I would say it is more negative than positive but you will never know the truth behind how many died or did not spawn.

All this for a 1 percent survival rate. INSANE !!! As far as me fishing the TPW baby, you have to be joking right ? Our stockings are terrible numbers. Last 2 years were ok but 3-4 years before we got 300,000 for 3-4 years. Now the math on that is 3,000 fish per 27,000 acres. Not sure but I probably have more in my pond.

The water turkeys and turtles, birds,and white bass eat 10 X that much a year so you seen we are going backwards not forwards. I could be here forever on this topic and I could explain many more things but some of you will never know or understand how stupid the SAL program is. One more thing to add , after 35 years of this SAL program they yet to put one of the SAL offspring babies into the top 50 in Texas ! Fact ! I have been waiting to hear from the fisheries on the 16.40 from IVIE cause it could be the first. If so 35 years for 1 fish in the top 50 !

Last I checked on the Florida record years ago the record was 20 plus and 18.91 was the cutoff and Cal was 22 plus with 19 lbs cut off.

Marc, I respect your opinion, but disagree. In the life of Lake Fork, 274 females taken out of the lake, that have spawned for several years, will not affect the numbers or genetics in the lake. Also, several of the Sharelunker fish have been returned to Fork and released alive. I know that all 3 of mine were released alive. How many 13 lb plus fish have you released alive in Fork? The main issue with Fork at this time is habitat for fry survival. I’ve done the math. K

All these Karen’s about the SAL program say they don’t like it but don’t really have any “real” reasons for not liking it.

Some will say some of the fish die...Most of our Texas lakes are way overstocked with numbers to ever be a true trophy fishery. Anglers want bites over trophies. Very few really trophy fish. These fish taken out after years to spawn in these lakes does very very little if any damage to the lake. These folks make it out likes it’s the last 13+ lb fish in the lake. More big fish die being hauled around for end of day Instagram pics and tournaments than are ever killed by the SAL truck.

California and Florida are always brought up but none of these guides ever move to these promise lands...Florida has a longer “growing” season and the giant bass you see in California are in relatively small lakes heavily stocked in trout. Not far off from being stock pond fishing. Again like the point above these lakes have low overall bass populations.

I personally think the genetics role and genetic testing and study is where the SAL program can benefit those of us that like fishing for big fish. Where that leads we’ll see but in the meantime they have my support.

No doubt the grass is a plus for the fry.

I have one 13.83 and I did the RIGHT thing and released her right where I caught her so she could spawn and deliver more big bass genetics in Lake Fork where she was raised for the future of Lake Fork.

So if you done the math you know the numbers are negative. Just so you know SAL spreads the fish all over TX and the lake that the entries come from only get a very small amount back.

In fact the stockings do not come from the SAL. Stockings are from a different batch of fry. So in saying that you don't know if you are getting the same genetics that you gave up.

I don't need any Glory to put a fish in a program.

So if you donated 3 then you should feel great about removing 240,000 fish from Lake Fork. That is with a 80,000 per fish survival rate the TPW uses.

Agree to Disagree with you as always.

If the SAL Program is such a success then why has not one state tried to copy it ???

Again, I released my fish alive, back into Fork. If they were capable of spawning again, their spawn was a benefit for the lake. Zero loss for Lake Fork. I respect and applaud the Sharelunker program, and think it’s been beneficial to all Texas lakes.

It is kind of like the TPW 13 inch spread rule. This is funny to me and I think it is like trying to protect a black Angus bull cause one day he will be a long horn. If the genetics are not there then you can't get there. IMO


Good Night To All For Now. Got to get ready to go swing at them again tomorrow.

13" restrictions have been great for Eastern Texas in my opinion...


Hey....how many fry do 13 pound female F1's produce in one spawn? I saw 1 million quoted....but I saw 50k too.....if you remove 12 million fry from a fishery how many fingerlings have to go back before its a net loss??

Yes, the trophy quality is day and night difference in our area since they changed that rule. If your not seeing results your probably live in a poaching area were Richards are shooting two bucks on any size now. The places that are following the antler restrictions are thriving.

I have 3 deer on my place that are 5-1/2 to 6-1/2 that need to go but are not 13 inches this is what does not work for me. I also have a picture of a 200 class buck running in my area that is not 13 inches. Sounds insane right ? He is a stud ! Probably got loose off a high fence my guess. If you don't have wide bucks already you can't grow them from bucks that don't have that gene. IMO

Uh... yeah I don't believe you, pleeeaaase post some pics I wanna see it.

Not doubting you but would love to see a pic. That would be an insanely rare buck!! I can only think of one 200" buck off the top of my head that didnt make 13". We are talking 20 pound+ Bass kinda rare!!!

I wanna see too, I know all to many buddies that call a 150" buck a 200"

If I see a 200" deer it's getting shot brother.....and I think mature bucks that are really tall look narrower than they actually are....my experience

Send me a Text. I don't know how to put the picture up here. He is huge. I would shoot him also cause he is mature.

I ran deer hunts in West Texas for 16 years and scored lots of bucks and I can look at one most the time and guess him very close.

This buck has lots of mass and kickers and I do not think he is over 13 inches wide.

Anyone who knows me knows I do not LIE . I always tell it like it is. His picture will make you change your mind and jaw will drop.

There is no way he is less than 180 but most likely 200 plus. Not even outside his ears.

I did....still had your number from when you put a keel shield on my boat....still going strong too!!

Just gonna say, I wouldn’t mind seeing the freak buck either.

If you want to see him just Text me on the number on my card. I don't know how to post here. If you think I am lying.

I don’t think you’re lying, I just want to see it, always like seeing big antlers. I’ll text you tomorrow if nobody else post a picture of it.

Can you all cite a source that shows the 1% survival rate of the fry? I find that really hard to believe....and its sad if its true and would make me question the program. But I really gotta figure they are getting better than 1% survival rate.

Also...I understand that the ShareLunkers caught dont trace back to ShareLunker program fry....but what about all the 6-10 pounders that are caught daily all across the state? How much sharelunker genes are in those fish? Giant fish are freaks of nature and rare any way you slice it. Shaq is a GIANT human....are his parents giant humans? No. Are all shaq kids giants? No. But if you had to place a bet....would you bet on my 5'7'' self and my shorter lady to pump out a 6+ foot child....or would you bet on Shaq and his wife/gf to pump out a 6+ foot child? I trust my seed....but even im betting on shaq's babies! LOL

Honestly....a lot of you all are way toooo damn spoiled with the amazing fisheries TP&W and the Sharelunker program have helped create. You all catch soooo many 5+ pound fish you see them as nothing....when in fact its a pretty big deal! Go fish other states....and no, im not talking Cali and Florida...and that should give you all some persepective on how great it is that you all can not only catch 5's like its nothing....but that any day you all can head out and there is a high percent chance you can catch something 7 or 8+ pounds. i think im a pretty good fisherman, and I do know my home lake in NM has some bigs....but you gotta have some luck on your side for the day to see an 8+ pounder at my home lake...where as you need a lot less luck on your side in TX and they are caught wayyyyyy more often.

So yea, sharelunker isnt perfect....but what program dealing with living creatures is? Even though the program isnt working by your own created set of standards....does not discount the program or mean it is not BIGLY beneficial for the fisheries across the state.

Now to my ivie folk....i dont think you all were gonna catch those early share lunkers....but yea, im feeling bad for the recent ones cuz i bet those were the types some of you would catch...and also potentially release. Good thing Sharelunker knows enough to cap the amount taken out to 10.

Bock, what part of there were big bass caught long before SAL do you not understand. These fish are Florida strain, they grow big if given time, food and warm water. If the results were there, they would have been published already.

Exactly.... California has no sal program. They stock the same fish we stock, Florida's. You let them exist under ideal conditions, they will get bigggg

just like my other replies.....IM NOT talking about any of that.

Im not debating, not denying or anything related to big bass being caught before the program started. I fully understand...that you are looking for a straw man because nothing I said was unreasonable and can potentially be pretty accurate.

I dont pretend to know more than the biologist in the program...and why I asked how many of those 5+ pounders have SAL genetics. Lots of pointing to data points that support your side...but ignore the big picture.

Address what im talking about, not some straw man im not even close to trying to discredit or even debate.....please.

I literally mentioned excluding california and florida because I know whats up there, just like we all do...but that wont support your argument so lets not go there, right? theres more than 3 states in the country.....and yea Texas cant have naturally occuring Florida strain bass for obvious reasons, and doesnt see the trout stockings cali does or did. SO....what can they do to try and compete? The SAL program. Comparing the SAL program to pretty much every other state in the country beside Cali and Florida....and seeing how continually well the texas lakes keep on producing....Im of the opinion maybe they are doing something right.

You all please try and debate the points im making, not just going off on something im not debating about. I know Florida strain bass work. I figure theres a lot more involved than Texas showing up to florida and saying "Ill take 10 trucks please", so maybe that is another reason for the birth of the SAL program. You all are focusing on very fine and tiny points....while ignoring the big picture....in my opinion.

TPW is where I get my info of 1 % in fact many times they have said it could be as low as 05 percent that make it.

As far as your comment about big people making big people you are mostly correct and you are not even a biologist, so you got more right than they did.

You would think they would pair the SAL female with the biggest male right ??? NOPE !!! They put her with a dink male that has no for sure DNA of being a big fish in general.

Back in the days Fork had giant male bass some over 8 lbs. TPW in the 90's told me they had shocked males up to almost 9 lbs. Now that is what we need with the 13 lb females. You would think big on big equals BIG Right ??

Not in their mind.

I was told by a Biologist years ago they think the female bass carries all the gene to be big. LOL. God made nothing with all the genes in one side. When I have seen giants on the beds back in Forks Great Days the males were 4-7 lbs.

Now you cannot find a male that size on Fork. My guess is water downed genetics . Our females are not choosing big males cause they are not available, therefor we are suffering on the big bass production and off spring. IMO

As I stated before I am in contact with the fisheries fairly often and I consider our Fork Biologist a friend and he keeps me informed often.

He also knows I do not like the program as well as many of my guide friends.

You can't take out your genetics and give them to everyone else and expect to still be King of Texas Fisheries.

Ok, I guess I don’t “get” your point. So far, 2 (two) bass caught have been PROVEN to have SAL DNA. The program has been going for something like 20 years, we have no bigger bass being caught because of it. There’s private lakes in Texas that buy SAL fry from the program and feed them like cattle, they aren’t growing records with them.

It gets publicity for the state, gives anglers a free replica, gives the lake some SAL fry; but it doesn’t grow freak of nature fish like you assume it does.

World record bass belongs to Japan, they don’t do [censored] to grow bass.

Do you know what lake holds the Bassmaster record for the most weight caught in a tournament? It’s not a Texas lake.

I think many lakes could benefit more from a baitfish stocking program, especially if the lake has stripers & whites in it.

And feed them rainbow trout.

I spoke with the biologist just a couple of days ago and he told me that the results were not in yet on any of the fish being SAL babies. Just texted him and waiting on a reply soon. If it is true then it is Fresh News. When he replies I will post his comment.

Jim Gore caught a SAL, along with a male, that was 6lbs something. TPWD took the male also. Personally, I haven’t seen a male that was 8 lbs. But that’s just me.

The 2 I’m referring too aren’t from the Ivie batch, in case you thought that’s what I meant. I believe one came from Deep South Texas and one from West Texas.

I was not sure but I know there has to be a SAL baby out there somewhere. IMO

another thing I feel is happening/been happening...is that the fishing pressure today is nothing compared to 30+ years ago. Then when you combine that with the potential harvest numbers from all the fishing pressure....I just think over all across the entire country bass genetics have been watered down. But Texas is still a top 3 (debatebly top 2 with Florida being 1) destination for bass heads...despite this potential for watering down of genetics.

Think about your common Joe Blow weekend warrior hitting the lake with his family. Do you think they are gonna keep and eat the smaller keeper size bass (like they should to grow trophy bass), or are they out for the bigs just like us hardcore guys? They want the bigs just as bad as us and if they can get their hands on one theyre probably taking it home. Now multiply that many times over....the Weekend Warriors hope and want the bigs just as bad as us hardcore bass heads, but most wont have the same appreciation and understanding of how special catching big bass is and subsequently take it home to brag on it the rest of their lives. Now knowing that if a big gets caught by most tom, dick and harry's they arent making it back in....its lead to a natural watering down of genetics in my opinion.

I still think there are freaks out there, the same as Shaq or Lebron exist. genetic freaks happen....and I really think the giants are those genetic freaks versus those fish that just happened to have the right conditions and lived long enough. The fact that private lakes arent producing World records should actually lend some credence to my opinion on them being genetic freaks versus well fed old fish only....but Im sure you all wont see it that way 🤷‍♂️

^^^^ dude, you write dissertations on every response.....you do realize the average attention span on here is very short right...,,????

Lol, I know mine is about 3 seconds!

Sir, I noticed your location is “Gar Hole”...I believe I have been to “Gar Hole”’ a time or two. No SAL’s coming from Gar Hole, Texas.

You can just scroll past the wall of text, no harm no foul and theyre easy to spot too. Some will read it though 🤷‍♂️

You shut fork down for 2 or 3,4 years and i promise you within the 1st cpl of years there will be 2+ 15+lbers caught anf possibly a 17lber.
Pressure is probably the biggest facter there aren't many 14+lbers caught. Helll they lose so much weigh swimming away from all the anglers trying to catch them. Lol

If it was working so well there should be piles of 13+ each year...

As Jarrett Latta said above.

If the program is to be a success then why are there not giants all over Texas popping up every year. It all comes down to management.

Same as anything if you do a great job you have Great results. Yes we have it pretty good in Texas but I can assure you we were catching big bass long before the SAL and to me the SAL has proven nothing over all . IMO

I have seen in it in deer hunting as well you managed the herd correctly and you will have some nice bucks.

We need the TPW but we do not need the SAL. Two separate departments.

Monticello in the late 70-80 's is a perfect example. First lake in Texas to get Florida strain bass and I am pretty sure If I remember correctly they were purchased by and Individual person and put into the lake.

Broke the state record in just a few years after stocking them. Problem then was everyone who caught a 7-9 lb bass took it home. Now days with catch and release it would have survived just fine.

This debate can go on forever and I am not opposed to hear anyones opinion as I express mine.

I appreciate everyones input. I just know Lakes Like Fork have suffered from it and are still suffering from this day. IMO

I covered that in one of my dissertation replies.

You sharelunker haters seem to think that all you need is Florida genes, a long life and food. Well if thats the case, and kinda taking a page out of your own book.....why are there not giants all over Florida popping up every year?

You gave me credit for my shaq analogy....well going back to shaq. Shaq is a freak. Plain and simple....a true freak of nature. You cant expect all of shaqs kids to end up 7'1" 325#.....can you? 2 of his boys are tall....Shaqir is 6'7" and Shareef 6'9" according to Google. Those guys are definitely huge...and Shareef is a giant at 6'9" compared to the rest of the US population......but, just the same as an 8 or 9 pounder is much different than a DD bass.....they arent the absolute giants their father is.

You make it seem like breeding a 13 pounder should pump out a spawn of 14+ pound fish.....we all know thats just not the way things work. So you all are of the opinion that florida strain bass in the right conditions can grow giant....I say some of these giants are just those Shaq type genetic freaks.

Considering the SAL program has been around since 1986 (34+ years) and only 607ish 13+ pounders have been caught (about 17 a year average)....i think its safe to assume that the sharelunker folk have figured out what that threshold is for true genetic freaks. And going back to shaq....I dont expect all these genetic freak bass to produce equally or greater genetic freak bass. It just doesnt work out that way. But going back to one of my dissertations....if I had to bet on who could produce a 6+ foot baby, shaq or my 5'7" self....im pretty sure we are all betting on shaq....and thats basically what TP&W are doing with the Sharelunker program even though you might now see it that way.

You are a dense one...

So what happens when you take “Shaq” (since this is obviously a lust of yours) away from his home waters, try to force him to breed someplace new and then he ends up dead, never breeding again...


Here, you want another state that grows big bass that doesn’t have a SAL program. Not sure why Florida and California don’t count to you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wired2fish.com/news/17-pound-bass-caught-in-georgia/amp/

fully agree...there is a dense one in here 🤔

You like to argue with yourself about your own points. Ill just go look up some Shaq highlights or something instead 🤷‍♂️

I mentioned that

Just wanna leave this here.

Fork Fattie


mass image upload

Hey fork got one! Yay!!!

I hear Fork doesnt have big fish and Im already hearing rumors it was from Ivie and transported

This debate could go on fuevah!

There are several guys on here who's opinion I respect even tho they are wrong.

I guess we’ll get to see if it has any SAL DNA in it, if not, it’ll be just like the other 606 that didn’t.

https://fishgame.com/2017/12/the-pros-and-cons-of-florida-bass/

good article about early Florida strain bass in Texas

Very interesting read, thanks for sharing.

You want answers?? I want the truth!! You can't handle the TRUTH!!

We have seen the enemy, and he is us....... pressure, food, time..... get TPW to pump up the bait fish population, harvest more small fish, remove CONSTANT tournament and recreational pressure for periods of time....and boom...20 pounds.....bet your life on it

Your solution is exactly what La Perla ranch is doing. Stocking SAL bass, culling every year. Pumping the lake with bait, and significantly limiting pressure. I guess that was 7 years ago. So is that 20lber coming in 2025?

here is the thread about the lake and idea. And they have already made a cull and released the 2lbers into falcon. I know they did it once, but I would love it if they didn't every year. I think it would help their lake too.
https://texasfishingforum.com/forum...gs-in-jalisco-lake-la-perla#Post10160471

Is there any lake in Texas that has not been regularly stocked with Florida genetics? Would be a great reference point if there were. I still believe many of our lakes in Texas are not suited habitat or climate wise for Florida genetics. It's just a theory though based on what I have seen in private ponds and small private lakes. Be nice to have a few lakes with northern strain bass in them. At that point we might actually have a few lake that don't completely suck to fish in the Fall and winter.

One thing u cant do is compare deer hunting to bass fishing you can manage deer more than you can manage bass because you can almost see how many deer you have and cull out bad genetics you cant do that with bass.
Theres no comparison at all. Hell we all get our panties in a wad when you here about people filleting bass, truth is there is a carrying capacity for bass just like there is deer maybe just not as much. We truthfully arent taking enough smaller bass from our lakes as we should until then we may never see a true trophy bass of 17+lbs.

Remember when new lakes are built there's probably more forage for these bass than 10+ years down the road when the lake has had years of growth from the past spawns and the lakes may have more bass in them after 10+ years than up to those first few years of growing. This goes for bass and forage.

I'm familiar with Doc's work

I agree they need to start stocking more bait fish in addition to the bass.

I have a place at Ivie and have had since 2007, I am there several weekends a month. The first thing I used to do when I got there was look at the dumpster at the fish cleaning station just to see if anything was being caught. I have seen hundreds of fish carcasses that were in the 8-12 and even bigger range. People have been taking big ones out of there for years. They are legally caught fish, people will do with them what they please. Like it or not JMO

Deer Breeders breed the best to the best and that is what they need to do with the Bass in the SAL.

Way more comparison than you think.

That is why you are saying take out the culls. Well they are breeding the fish to Culls.

So my friend you are wrong when you think they are not similar in breeding programs.

Fork has plenty of bait fish but Bass Numbers per acre are low compared to other lakes in Texas.

Need to go on a shock boat sometime.

Last I heard from the TPW on stocking Florida strain and buying them was they are to expensive that is why they try and create their own version by the SAL Program.

All lakes would be better off if the fish just spawned in the lake it was raised in. Each lake would continue to produce big bass with the genetics from the giants.

In my previous post, I mentioned Culling. What I was referring to is the lakes would be better off (for trophy potential) if we took more bass out. Less predators more prey. Same principle applies to fish in aquariums. you put a fish with potential to get big in a small tank it will stunt. If you put that same fish in a big tank it will grow faster and bigger. Decreasing the population from max viability will hurt catch rates, but increase the overall size.

Seemed to me some people felt entitled just because they practice catch and release....when in reality catch and release isnt always the best for trophy fish. I really think people just focus on facts they like and want to be true over all else...and not the big picture of things. Im too lazy to link the article cuz I remember one being posted to the group...but here is a good facebook post (and comments section) regarding selective harvest.

Im done debating people on the matter because they make things up that I dont say or argue...but yea, theres a lot more to growing big fish than im pretty sure most of us in here dont understand. I really dont think its a simple as florida genes and food...because if that was the case youd figure the place where the florida genes are from would be pumping out 13+ fish like they are 8 pounders here. But thats just not the way genetics work....i dont think.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bassconservation/permalink/1262527607269516

Steven Bardin is a fisheries biologist who is widely respected and works with many heavy hitters and big names...i believe he is helping EE build his lake. Here was his reply to that post



His post really makes you think...especially after all the complaints i read here about stocking, or the lack of stocking. So yea...............with all due respect to everyone....I dont think any of us know as much as we think we do about bass, MYSELF INCLUDED. Ill trust those smarter than me with more hands on and direct experience to handle things.....this year, and continued past tourney results affirm that faith in those smarter folks...but thats just me and my opinion 🤷‍♂️

So just a little update with all the concern about the survival rate for Sharelunkers taken from Ivie this season. We had a rep from our local TPWD come to our local bass club meeting last night to share some information about our local lakes.
Of the 12 bass taken to Athens from Ivie only 1 didn't survive. 8 have successfully spawned and they will be returned to Ivie this coming Thursday. They will be taking them out and releasing then in different areas throughout the lake, not just dumping them at the ramp. Of the 3 remaining 1 was permanently donated by the angler who caught it and the other 2 haven't spawned yet. Once they do they will be returned back to Ivie.
Not saying weather I support or oppose the program but thought I'd share this info with all the concern that too many in the program don't survive. I'll also attach a graph of the most recent genetic sampling taken from the local lakes to this area showing the percentages of Florida strain.

Cull the gar, white bass, and cormorants and see what happens

You should be ashamed of yourself! Get theses COLD HARD FACTS out of here! No room for these kinda facts to try and discredit all the anecdotal fishing stories and observations made by some anglers on here!!!

This has to be completely untrue and fake news....since it basically blasts .50 cal size holes through all the SAL haters posts and self rationalizations on why SAL is bad. I read on here they all die. I read on here they never spawn. I read on here SAL genetics arent good and cant grow em and its all about the pure florida strains. I read on here that the fish wont see their home lake again.

Ive also read on here that lake fork is dead. and now I gotta admit, im sooo confused....do I go with a handful of peoples anecdotal stories and observations that are basically not backed up with any facts, or do I take these cold hard facts as the truth? Really tough question.



Like ive said....thank you Sharelunker folks for what you do. You Sharelunker people are so good at your job that youve spoiled (some) texas anglers so much they think of 5+ pound fish as nothing and demand DD's as proof that the Sharelunker program works. Very good work by the sharelunker people and i wish New Mexico would take note!!! Thank you for posting this...always good to see the facts to weed through peoples [censored] 🤷‍♂️

I'm most impressed with my local lake, Twin Buttes. 0% percent pure florida strain but yet in the last 3 years we've had 4 or so over 13's and a bunch of over 10's. Seems the half breeds can get just as big.

the info is pretty surprising in regards to the pure FL. I really figured thered be more, but those numbers were real low. It does look like TP&W realizes they are needed though since they are stocking more in those 3 lakes. I think the SAL and TP&W might be figuring things out after all these years of data. I figure these results are about what theyd hope for and theyre gonna keep on doing what they been doing. Maybe we really will see the state record fall within a few years....because I think they are out there 🤔

Be careful what you ask for or we will see stupid rules put inlace like the gun control laws that is happening right now.

My fish from fork #608 was released by me last Friday at fork during the elite event. Bass did a little video on it. Was very cool. Fish was 100% Florida strain. Stocked in the lake as a fingerling from their Florida broad stock. They can tell you exactly which fish it was the offspring from mom and dad pretty cool anyone that thinks the program doesn’t work hasn’t done their research.

Couldn’t agree more. They just hear someone else say all these fish die and so that’s what they believe.

I'm not sure about that. Your fish came from Florida stock, I'm guessing that's not SL stock. If that's correct it really wouldnt prove anything one way or the other

I've always asked why they wouldn't want the genes from the "non pure florida" fish that reach that 13+ size because for a while there if it wasn't a certain % Florida they wouldnt breed it. Too get that big seems pretty special and I would want more of that in the lake as well.

Was your fish a SAL offspring or just Florida broad stock? One thing I will agree with you on is that you caught a beautiful fish. Congrats!!!

Because Texas doesn't want a 14 lb bass. Texas wants the world record so be thinking of a 23 lb bass. There's no such thing as an intergrade at any level over 18 pounds that I'm aware of. Only a pure Florida is going to break the world record. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I don't read up on this the way I used to.

What is hard for we Texans to grasp is that this has so much to do with the "terroir" as the wine folks would say. The climate, the water quality, the length of seasons, the food availability all contribute to growing that fish and we don't have the X-factor our left wing compatriots have out west nor the readily available protein source. Many wealthy gents have tried to money whip our little problem into shape sparing no expense and there seems to be a ceiling that exists.

One thing that you'll rarely see argued is that to grow a 20 lb bass you'll need pure Florida genetics.

Just the rantings of a country dentist who can't seem to catch one of these.

Tight lines,

J

Now let's REALLY look at the data because things get hairy fairly quickly. What was the sample size described for Twin Buttes? I see that either 57 percent of the fish tested had some Florida genetics or 57 percent of the genetic makeup of the lake was Floridanus. We'd first want some clarification regarding the definitions. Now I'd ask how many have actually gotten to electrosurvey a lake? It shocks the smaller fish more easily and rarely can stun a BIG bass. I think Mike Frazier at CB had the most bizarre double digit ratio ever reported but typically you're measuring small to medium sized fish for length and weight, collecting a genetic sample if necessary and then returning them to the water. You're selecting for smaller fish by your method of collection and therefore potentially excluding some pure Floridas.

We are interpolating results from limited data when there might be a different situation in reality. If I were a younger man I'd go read the survey report from 2019 and find out the details but I'm two bourbons into this evening so I'll just make assumptions until we learn otherwise. Let's ask Salex, Fish Breeder or our local celebrity Ken A who was featured in Sowbelly what their thoughts are. I feel confident that they will say in any given non-yankee climate (Florida, Georgia, Cuba, Texas, Mexico, California, Louisiana) a pure Florida is going to out perform a cross if everything else is equal.

So we arrive back at the crux....... Does anyone remember "Operation World Record?" Are fish that genetically variable from individual to individual like terrestrial animals or are they much less different genetically and more controlled by environmental influences?

My head hurts.....

J

Now let's REALLY look at the data because things get hairy fairly quickly. What was the sample size described for Twin Buttes? I see that either 57 percent of the fish tested had some Florida genetics or 57 percent of the genetic makeup of the lake was Floridanus. We'd first want some clarification regarding the definitions. Now I'd ask how many have actually gotten to electrosurvey a lake? It shocks the smaller fish more easily and rarely can stun a BIG bass. I think Mike Frazier at CB had the most bizarre double digit ratio ever reported but typically you're measuring small to medium sized fish for length and weight, collecting a genetic sample if necessary and then returning them to the water. You're selecting for smaller fish by your method of collection and therefore potentially excluding some pure Floridas.

We are interpolating results from limited data when there might be a different situation in reality. If I were a younger man I'd go read the survey report from 2019 and find out the details but I'm two bourbons into this evening so I'll just make assumptions until we learn otherwise. Let's ask Salex, Fish Breeder or our local celebrity Ken A who was featured in Sowbelly what their thoughts are. I feel confident that they will say in any given non-yankee climate (Florida, Georgia, Cuba, Texas, Mexico, California, Louisiana) a pure Florida is going to out perform a cross if everything else is equal.

So we arrive back at the crux....... Does anyone remember "Operation World Record?" Are fish that genetically variable from individual to individual like terrestrial animals or are they much less different genetically and more controlled by environmental influences?

My head hurts.....

J[/quote]
Hate to disagree with ya doc, but my brother IS a fisheries Biologist and has shocked up plenty of bass over 10 pounds, with a few giants along the way. 20 pounders? Not yet. I've been the "net man" on shocking trips to these private lakes, and I was amazed at the size of some of them. Yes, you will by and large shock up small and medium sized fish mostly, but that's because they make up the majority of the population in any lake. There are some new surprises coming in the "growing largemouth bass" world that I'm not allowed to talk about...yet. Suffice it to say, I think it will change all of our thinking on growing giant bass. IF...it works!

Hate to disagree with ya doc, but my brother IS a fisheries Biologist and has shocked up plenty of bass over 10 pounds, with a few giants along the way. 20 pounders? Not yet. I've been the "net man" on shocking trips to these private lakes, and I was amazed at the size of some of them. Yes, you will by and large shock up small and medium sized fish mostly, but that's because they make up the majority of the population in any lake. There are some new surprises coming in the "growing largemouth bass" world that I'm not allowed to talk about...yet. Suffice it to say, I think it will change all of our thinking on growing giant bass. IF...it works! [/quote]

Can I come along next time you get the call to net!? LOL seen a couple youtube videos and it looked like a fun day! PM me the secret stuff! LOL Maybe I can use some of that juice when I help out the BASS Nation here in New Mexico with lake improvement efforts 🤔

Anyone ever heard of "hybrid vigor"?? Pure Florida would seem to be contraindicated anyway....need some cold tolerance and such

Heterosis, hybrid vigor, or outbreeding enhancement is the improved or increased function of any biological quality in a hybrid offspring. An offspring is heterotic if its traits are enhanced as a result of mixing the genetic contributions of its parents. These effects can be due to Mendelian or non-Mendelian inheritance.

I just saw a SAL was put back in to Palestine today

I think most sals aren't 100 percent florida. I know mine wasn't.

Did they release yours....or did they update you on how it went? I wonder if the fork story from TSpurgin was a one off type deal or if they keep the anglers that caught them in the loop....even if its something as simple as an email.

I have heard a few direct stories. It is your fish, they keep you in the loop!

thats pretty sweet. Theyre lucky I didnt catch one at Ivie. I wouldve told them to call me when they start bumping uglies so I could watch

Managing every lake in Texas like you are going to raise a world record is just insane. I hope that is not the real goal of the TPWD program. Personally I would much rather the bulk of our fisheries be managed for a large number of 5+ lb fish than some magical unicorn 23lb fish that might could eventually happen at some point if all the magical stars happen to line up just perfect. I also think that trying to take most Texas lakes to anything near 100% Florida genetics is stupid. I wish TPWD would at least manage a few lakes in the state with very limited Florida stocking and maybe even some really good northern genetics. At least that way there would be a baseline for what the Florida genetics are doing to our lakes. At that point you could also look at some real data on some of the assumed negative traits of the Florida genetics like very low catch rates within the population and horrible cold water catch rates.