Hiring a Guide before a Tournament

What are your thoughts on hiring a guide before a tournament?

Ok, as long as it doesn’t violate tournament rules

I would never do it. But I would never hire a bass guide at all. But if it's not against the rules, I have no problem with it. I also have no problem with guides fishing tournaments

I have done it many times and don't care what someone else thinks about it. We have sucked just as many times as we cashed checks with or without fishing with the guide. I also fish with this guide, who is a good friend, several times each year so its not just because of a tourney is coming up that next weekend. So, you if you're asking because you want to do it, go right ahead as long as its within your tourney rules....if you're asking because you think its not ok someone else is doing it, then that's another story.

Fish ABA as a Co-angler before your tournament. Best way to find out where not to fish.

If the rules allow it, I would. I have fished a few tournaments where the body of water is so large that I wouldn't know where to start. A guide puts you in a general area w/ a pattern to build off of.

i mean its not the most noble way to approach a tournament. Most people now a days take the easy way out and can't find there own fish but its not against the rules in most tournaments

I know a lot of these bass club guys around Texas do it. Spend $400 to win $350. Poor math students.

I guess it could save you a lot of time on baits that work and don’t, it’s not like the guide is taking you to their good spots anyways. I wouldn’t be proud of doing it, but it would cut your learning times down immensely.

There a guy on Fork that does it. Takes a guide out about once a week or more. I think he won an hour at Mega Bass a year ago, so I guess it paid off.

I kinda think guys should go find their own fish. But to each and his own.

By your logic. Anyone that ever hires a guide is a poor math student. $400 to win nothing.
Maybe they just like to fish and fish with guides. Maybe winning a couple dollars is just icing on the cake. Kinda like saying spend. 80 grand on a boat to win 300. Maybe they spent 80 grand because that's the boat they like. Winning 300 out of is just for fun. I wouldn't ever hire a guide because it just doesn't seem fun to me. I've won a free guide trip on Fork and never went. But I'm not gonna make fun of or look down on someone who does

If the rules allow it go for it .

No comment

Douchebaggery

It worked for the guys that won champs on Falcon. Chicken mess in my opinion but I would guess it rarely works out so it’s good for the economy.

That's what I was thinking.... You're gonna hire a guide for $400-$600, and make how much...?

I think it's a pretty weak move. But, if it's not against the rules do as you wish.

People hire tutors before a test. So why not if it doesn't break the rules. It's all a learning experience

If you spend $500 to win $300, it may not be cost effective.

Hopefully you want have to fight over the spots he took the other 8-10 people.

Good luck if you hire one!

Same here.

A guy in my club hires guides plural whenever we go to South Dakota.

Doesn’t bother me don’t care.

I’m going to grand this year and ozarks and mill lacs for club tourneys I wouldnt Mind hiring a guide for any of those. Especially ozarks I’ve heard it can be very tough. That said not sure if I will.

As for the cost effectiveness who cares if your going to a lake for 2-3-4-5 days the value is in having a good time.

The pros enter everything tournament knowing 120 out of 150 guys will lose money.

Why would you hire a guide if you wish to compete against other anglers in a level playing field? I think finding catchable fish and putting keepers in the boat was the major part of the competition. If you hire a guide to do all the pre tournament work in then I would feel like I had an unfair advantage over the ones who didn’t hire a guide to put them on fish to weigh in for a check. Maybe if you acknowledge the guide when you get a check would be the proper thing to do.

Makes complete sense. In the end a guided trip only cost $50

I think everyone should follow the rules of the contest they are entering first and then do whatever makes them happy with their hard earned money. If they are following the rules, good for them! Guide trips are a hoot! Tournaments are too unless you are so uptight about what others are doing you forget fishing is fun!

I think there are all different kinds of mentalities people take into tournament fishing. For me, 80% of fishing is figuring a lake out and figuring a pattern out for that particular day and that particular body of water. The remaining 20% is the technical aspects of catching. If I've outsourced 80% of the job out to someone else, and I win a tournament by doing 20% of the work, that doesn't really feel like a tournament I won. I also say this as someone who competes more for pride and the sake of competition than money.

That being said, fishing is also about an accumulation of experiences and knowledge, and good guides can be a good source of knowledge to plug into. So I don't have any issues with guys, tournament fisherman or not, hiring a guide to learn something new.

Like my wife always tells me "There is always a more positive way to look at things"

I think it is BS if it is within the week of the tournament. It SHOULD against the rules in all tournaments.
To me if you have to hire a guide for day before prefishing you should try crappie fishing instead.

Its not a classy move

I wouldn't do it.

It used to be the norm for bassmaster competitors.

What if you are fishing the tournament and you have the latest and greatest in electronic equipment and someone else that is wanting to fish the tournament can't afford that, is that an unfair advantage? That is a question for those of you that think hiring a guide before a tournament is not right. Where do you draw the line what is right or wrong??? What exactly is fair and equal?

I don't know why guys get upset with someone using a guide. Most guides that fish tourney's don't do that well in them. Other than Charles Whited who almost always is in the money here in the hill country most of them don't do consistently well. In fact Charles and his partner blanked on Falcon last week. Check the records for the local guides in tournaments. Jimmy Steed is a well known guide at Falcon and he and his partner struggled with only 2 fish. And they finished in the money! LOL! It's all about timing and presentation. Right place, right time, right presentation. Rent a guide is ok with me. I've gone out with guides before but not for tournaments specifically. Usually trying to learn/improve on a technique or learning more about electronics and interpretation.

who are you, KV'wannabe?

I dont get your joke or what your trying to say.

spot on

Kind of like paying for “it” versus using your charm..... just doesn’t seem as rewarding.

Apples and oranges. Latest electronic gear doesn’t take you directly to the fish, you have to find them to see them. It also doesn’t tell you what to throw and how to work the lure.
A guide does.
With the very best electronic gear the fisherman still has to put time in and figure out how to catch them. Even if it is part of prefishing it is part of the whole tournament spirit.

Using a guide as general learning and enjoyment on a lake is fine. But hiring one to take you to prefish is BS.

For me, wouldn’t even consider it. Especially immediately before a tournament.

I think it’s a pretty pathetic move.

Are those tutors handing the students the same exact test they are about to take?

IMO if you want to hire a guide on a different lake to learn a technique or tips on reading lakes in general then THAT would be the equivalent of a tutor as you say.

Otherwise it’s pretty classless.

There’s a simple easy line that could be drawn. Figure the fishing out yourself.
(If we’re talking like week of tourney)

Perfect

Lol!

Don’t be throwing shade on the ones than can. My excuse is I have always been doing the maximum living on the minimum wage and just flat [censored] can’t afford it .

It’s a bush league move. And any of you that have done it, did you publicly give thanks to the guide or keep quite about it?

I have been hired many times by folks preparing to fish an event on Fork. It was many years ago when I was living & guiding on Fork but the principle remains the same.

The 16-24" slot limit on Fork makes any tourney a challenge. I vividly recall fishing one small club event where me & partner caught over 100# of fish off ONE deep spot (Yes Fork was That good) in May and weighed one fish that went 1.25. It was pretty humbling as a Full-Time Fork Guide to come into weigh in with a fish that would fit in a Zip-Loc sandwich bag. So there's that...

Having made my living fishing, I guess I have a different perspective than most. I hire a guide every time I go out of town on vacay. I want to maximize my time on the water by fishing with someone that knows the lake. I'm not fishing a tournament after using the guide but I don't have an issue with it.

There's no expiration date on that gift card Scott

I know bass club guys do it so they can get their 5 minutes of fame at the podium. It's a financial loss, so I see no point in it. I would rather spend my money on a guided trip into the Salty Blue-ish Gulf of Mexico. If it ever comes the point that I need to hire a guide to compete with bass club guys, I will hang up the hat. That pretty much explains how I feel about that topic.

I look at another way. I hired a guide once on t-bend just to learn about running the lake. There is nothing wrong with that assuming the rules allow. Lakes like Rayburn T-bend Palestine are all lanes where there is a benefit to learning how to navigate the lake it regardless of whether you fish with the guide or not. Getting on guide fish a few weeks before the tournament will really not help in the tournament. But learning how to navigate the lake safely to avoid boat damage and increase safety no one should have a problem with that

If you win first place..

No pride in the victory if someone had to show you where and how to catch fish.

Lol, don't even know what I did with it. It was from the sandbass tournament you organized a few years ago

You must be new to bass fishing, you can be on them one day and the next they are no place near there.

I still have it Scott. It was for a half day at Whiterock Lake..

There's no expiration date on that gift card Scott [/quote]

Lol, don't even know what I did with it. It was from the sandbass tournament you organized a few years ago[/quote]

I still have it Scott. It was for a half day at Whiterock Lake.. [/quote]

If it's with you, I'll go

Actually I can't believe we have never fished together

I would 10x rather someone hire a guide for 2 weeks running up to tournament day or off limits. Than to see so many people running around following the bent rod pattern, that so many seem to be relying on nowadays.

Lol, don't even know what I did with it. It was from the sandbass tournament you organized a few years ago[/quote]

I still have it Scott. It was for a half day at Whiterock Lake.. [/quote]

If it's with you, I'll go

Actually I can't believe we have never fished together[/quote]

I know right! I made so much money guiding four years full time at Fork that I was able to retire.

Actually I'm an old school guy. I've been fishing tournaments for 55 years and still love to compete, but I don't like what I am seeing nowdays.

If it's ok by the rules and it passes your sniff test, then go for it. But that said, I don't think it's cool!

LOL, a couple I know hired a guide on Sam Rayburn the week of the CAST Classic 10 or so years ago. Located and caught some decent fish. Took off the first morning of the tournament and there were six other boats on the best spot.......all had hired the same guide that week.

Served them right.

Almost all of the Pro’s do it. I fished with a guy that guides the Sabine and he gets all sorts of Elite guys through the years. Brandon Palanuik found a lot of his Texas Bassfest brush piles by hiring a crappie guide when they were down at the T-Bend tournament.

Some don’t officially “hire” a guide because they are friends already so they just show them around.

PERSONALLY I THINK ITS CHICKEN POOP AND AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF COMPETITION. A lot of people can fish but most people can’t find fish. Finding the fish is probably 80% of it.

There are a LOT of the older guys that built careers using guides. It's not as bad as it used to be, if they were coming to your lake and you fished local tournaments, you might get 10 or 12 calls. And they always wanted to know if you had taken anyone else out lol.

They don’t hire one the week of an event. They hire them way out in advance of a tournament. I believe we are talking about the guy that hires ones the week of or day before a tournament to show him exactly where the fish are.

It is certainly a good idea fishing a new lake to you on a tournament that has big payouts.

Our club, which doesn't have big payouts, restricts it for 30 days prior to the next tournament which is every Thursday.

No guide should be allowed to be hired before the tournament period. If your fishing a major tournament trail and you can’t do your own pre fishing and find your own fish maybe you don’t need to be fishing tournaments. There are plenty of guys that hire guides and split the winnings and that is also chicken [censored] on the guides end as well. There should be a rule against hiring guides before a tournament.

That’s his point. A good fisherman/tournament fisherman can make adjustments during the day if fish aren’t biting. Most of us that fish tournaments pretty regularly have to do it on a daily basis.

My take is if it is not against the rules, so be it.

Its a slippery slope to start banning advantages. At some point you still have to catch them. Must trails dont tell you exactly how many rods you can have(not use), how many graphs, what hp to an extent, etc.

Still got to catch them.

If you can watch fish swim around in front you of on your graph like a video game, then hiring a guide isn’t all that bad.

This is why I stand by my statement. A guide helps eliminate dead water and teaches you the best runs. It's about learning the pattern and ideal places to fish. Not fish the same damned honey hole as everyone else.

It's like hiring a tutor. They can help teach you the lay of the land, but you need to be able to take that learning and apply it to the next problem.

I don't see an issue with it if it's not against the rules. I also don't see an issue with guys pre fishing all week before a tournament. My favorite tournaments have off limits and 1 official practice day. Of all things, I think off limits levels the playing field the most.

If you do it within the week of the tournament it is for one reason only to take a shortcut to find fish.
Eliminate your own water catch your own fish.
If you want to know the lay of the land go with the guide a month before the tournament. The lay of the land doesn’t change in a month.

.
Only because it's against the rules.

So you would deny a guide the opportunity to work and feed his family?
And if so how would you regulate this?

Bush league. Finding fish is part of the competition for anyone with self respect.

So many stupid replies in here. Most if not all of you must not ever actually travel to new waters as in new states, to fish. The others of you must be too poor to hire a guide.

I’m curious what is considered a big trail?????

I have Not seen any trail at any level that you could fish and run as a business with a working business plan that would satisfy the irs you stood to make a profit. Meaning your average purse winnings exceed your entry and costs.

Figured you would be ok with it.
Yes have traveled to many new waters over the years. Doesn’t matter if it is a “big trail” or a bass club. If you hire a guide within a few days of a tournament you aren’t finding your own fish. You are paying someone else to show you where they late and how to catch them.
Purse doesn’t matter.

No of course not all people are allowed to make a living, but there are guides out there that put their services out there and ask the client if you win we split the winnings and that’s chicken [censored] period. There are tournaments that don’t allow guides to fish unless they have a 30 day off period so they take their buddies out and split the winnings. I have heard of this many times the chances of them winning may be low, but it happens and I don’t think it’s right and that’s only my 2 cents and each there own I guess if you have to do that to win. Put the time on the water just seems more rewarding to me if you do it yourself.

Grant2
Thanks for your reply and I hear what you’re saying. As a tournament angler myself for 30+ years I have fished tournaments with many different rules and I think the rules are where to start and as long as someone is abiding to them they should be fine because as we have seen there are those who will go beyond the rules.
As far as guides I never hold it against them if they aren’t doing anything wrong and will admit to you and everyone that back in the early 90’s before my first trip to Sam Rayburn I hired a guide just to help show me how to get around the area I chose to fish on that massive lake and I admit that it made a huge difference in how I did during that club tournament.

All's fair in fishing,..if it's legal.

Jeff. We all get It. You’ve got money and are a win at all costs guy. You’re the parent everyone hates in little league.

Whatever it takes to win: Guides, Binocs, Getting Info, Etc.. I'm not there to make friends only to cash a check.

If it’s legal, no problem.

Wasn’t someone (KVD, maybe) sending his son or nephew ahead to fish lakes and report back to him? I have no problem with that, as long as it doesn’t impact off limits or no info rules.

Don't like the rules then don't enter. Pretty simple.

🤦‍♂️

I think it is OK. But especially if a lake is difficult or dangerous to get around without experience on the lake. Examples I can think of are Palestine and Caddo. Those can be dangerous to run. A guide can make them less so.
I don't tournament fish anymore.

I already said in here many posts ago a guy in my club hires guides plural for one tourney. And I dont care, it doesn’t bother me. I also Already states the two obvious and we all know it’s true you can be in fish one day in a spot and the next they are gone.

Haha you got it almost all wrong. I could care less about winning in fishing, anyone and everyone can fish. It’s not like being a pro football player or soccer player etc.

I spent 24 seasons racing oval track and more than half of those making my living at it, I’m past caring much about competition. Fishing is about having a good time, which is why I share Every bit of info I can With everyone.

This will be my 6th season not racing so I did just pre pay to join A tour and will see if I like Competitive team fishing or not this year. It’s a 2500 to win each tourney closed 25 team series 6 event tour.


Wrong about little league also. I became A coach because of as hole dads for a season.

I am Not broke or poor and I like Big boy toys that part you got right.

IMO hiring a guide before a tournament for spots and being shown exactly how to catch them is 100% BS whether the rules allow it or not. If that’s the kind of fisherman you are then you probably shouldn’t be entering tournaments in the first place. Huge difference in being given some waypoints or tips by someone versus being taken to the exact spot and shown how to catch them. Probably the same kind of guys that go shoot a 95 on the golf course and walk around all week telling anyone that will listen about the 83 they shot. Lol.

Y'all got any of these guides numbers that will put someone on winning fish and show exactly how to catch them? Asking for a friend.

Haha

I have no problem with it...
One of the trails we fish here locally has several guides fishing it....all very good guys.
I enjoy the competition, but some may not like it. If that’s the case with you, maybe check out a local bass club or something. Both are fun for fishing and meeting some guys who like to fish

Good luck

You didn't know about the professional bass fisherman's secret society? They pay me and many others really well to pre-fish for them.

If anyone wants to hire me, I'm cheap and will definitely show you the dead water.

My personal opinion on this has always been the same....."if you are hiring a guide to prefish a bass tournament, you may not be ready for tournament fishing yet." Always seemed like the quick and easy way instead of finding bass yourself

I thought about it and then looked at past results from tournaments we were going to fish. The guide had terrible results, like no 5 fish limits. Either he had bad luck on tournament day or I was picking the wrong guide.

What rules say you can't hire a guide before a tournament if you hire them far enough in advance?

Why do so many of you have a negative opinion of guides? Yall seem to hate them. They are trying to make a living at guiding and helping others. Such haters on this forum.

If you cant afford a guide, you hate those who can, same with electronics, same with sparkly bass boats and them new fangled trucks.

It was referred to those who are whining about using a guide.

If you are going to enter a tournament I am guessing you are doing that to win some money, right. Isn't that the reason you entered it????? If that is your goal to win some money then why not take every advantage that you can that is within the rules to help you cash a check. For all of you that think hiring a guide before a tournament is wrong, because you should "just find the fish for yourself" right? Ok, in the next tournament you fish, if you want to rely on your fishing skills, take your electronics off the boat and fish the tournament. See how well you do. Don't rely on your electronics to help you out. Just use your fishing skill. Good luck with that in your competition.

It just amazes me how so many on here hate fishing guides.

Do you even realize that this thread and almost no one in it is hating on guides? You keep saying that yet the entire thread is about the fisherman, not the guide.

Also, no I don’t enter tournaments to win money, because I’m not a pro and I’m not too dumb to realize there’s no way I’m making money bass fishing. I enter for the spirit of competition. Which I personally think is trashed when someone hires a guide immediately before a tournament. I think it’s bush league and shady.

Finally, the electronics argument is stupid also. Do you have someone in the boat with you reading the graph and telling you what they see and where to cast? Uh no, you’re doing It yourself. which is, again, what this entire thread is about.

It just amazes me how you can take one thing and turn It into something completely different. Sound like my damn wife.

Like what are you trying to accomplish by winning the monthly club tournament by hitting a guide? Some fake glory? You going to tell people that don’t give a [censored] how awesome you are come Monday morning back at your real job? No one cares. It doesn’t make you cool.

Ez bass in and Jeff from Iowa... probably good dudes in real life. Real [censored] on this forum.

Ive never hired a guide for a tourney. I hired two guides in my life so far both been flops. I never took my trip I bought w pack man.

I dont have a job to go to.

I agree with you on telling people it doesnt impress them, everyone fishes, nobody knows how bass fishing is different from bobber fishing so nobody thinks fishing is hard etc.


Irony is you calling us whatever your calling us and thinking your not that.... you dont see me calling anyone names.


I get it if your wife is like that, must suck to be you, my wife is my best friend, I wish I could get her into fishing more than a few times a year, we would never be home.

You don't know either one of us and have no idea what you are talking about. Just a TROLL you are. I bet you even voted for Biden didn't you???
I like fishing for fun, that is what I do. I could care less about fishing a tournament. I just enjoy fishing and that's it. You are totally clueless about both of us you called out. You would be better off if you just kept your comments to yourself because you are making yourself look stupid. Maybe you boast about yourself to your fellow workers but I don't. My fellow workers know the person that I am and it is for sure you TRULY DO NOT.
s

Jeff, My wife fishes with me all the time.

Ez, definitely.

Definitely.......I figured you voted for Joe Biden. That just shows what kind of person you are. SHAMELESS ANTI-AMERICAN LIBERAL

Lmao. Yep, you know It.

Did y’all know you’re an anti American liberal if you think it’s in bad taste to hire a guide right before a tournament?

Well to be fair, they do tend to cheat more than conservatives do.

+1

What I'm getting out of this is, there are several people on here that are of the mindset, that. If I don't do it, like it, or believe in it. Nobody else, should be able to do it either. Now, talk about a far left, liberal mentality, that's it , if it ever existed. I do know for a fact, that many, if not all, of the big name pros back in the 70s and 80s. Had guides, and some very good fishermen, that were not guides, fishing for them, ahead of the BASS invitationals. If you want to do it ( and it's not violating rules) then it's no different, than utilizing any other item or technique, at your disposal. If you do not believe that it's for you, then don't do it. It's not something that I would do, but what gives you or me, the authority to tell someone else not to do it? Most of the time, guides are not on the quality of fish, that it takes to win a tournament anyway. Furthermore, the guy that has to hire a guide, to put him on fish, is the guy I least worry about beating me . If this does not make sense to you, then disregard everything I said. If it offends you, then maybe you need to take a long look at yourself.

Who’s telling anyone they can’t do It? Everyone is just giving their opinion one way or the other.

The only lower form of cretin is those who bring politics into a fishing forum

6 pages of stupid

are guides more expensive the closer to derby day it gets?

Good Lawd this escalated quickly

Threads should be limited to one page, Thats about when the train jumps the track, and the name-calling begins.

Fishing Guides need love too

How is there not a train emoji....

Page 2 is where the fun starts

I missed the name calling. That's what I'm here for.

When it comes to a bass tournament there is almost no such thing as a level playing field. Someone will have better equipment, someone will have more time on that particular lake, someone will draw lower boat number, someone will get to "their spot" only to find a local not in the tournament already fishing it, etc... If it is within the rules and within your budget to hire a guide, it can help. It is no guarantee that you will win or even catch fish, just like having the most modern electronics doesn't guarantee success. I have fished countless tournaments out of town where some of the competitors had been there fishing all week. I wasn't willing to take the time off of work to put in on the water. That represents a financial investment that I was not willing to make, much like someone paying a guide represents an investment.

This thread is not about liking guides or denying them a living. It is about tournament fishermen hurting one a couple of days or the day before a tournament to show the, where to fish.
Everyone chiming in thinking this is about dissing guides needs to start at the beginning.

i'd do it but I'm liberal and can't find LBGT guides

They don't exist! That's the flat out MYTHICAL Unicorn and fairy fartin' four-leaf clover wearin' leprechaun at the heart of the argument against.