Boat Search Criteria

Some of you guys probably saw I am going to do a series of test driving a bunch of boat brands over the next few months. Most videos are "look at my new boat, best boat ever", and then a year or two later, they go to a new brand and "look at my new boat, best boat every". I want to do a series that is as unbiased as i can make it where I take everybody through me shopping for a new ride (assuming I find something better than what I have that I can afford!). I don't want to just drive a boat in a big circle for 20 minutes on a calm day, I want to fish out of them for a day and give honest feedback, so looking for some ideas from you guys (please don't be a brand homer here).

Initially I'm thinking 4 or 5 criteria, graded on 1-25 or 1-20 scale, something that adds up to 100 based upon total number of criteria, things like:

Fishability
Layout, are the boxes easy to access, it the boat tippy to fish out of, are the gunnels too high for flipping, is the front deck to narrow, is the back deck big or small (co-angler feedback good here might really be helpful), just all the stuff that makes a boat easy or hard to fish out of.

Fit and Finish
Is it good carpet, are there trim issues, do the boxes open and close well, seats, how are the livewells, are the decks padded, etc

Performance
Hole shot, top end speed, handling, rough water ride, is it dry, can you keep the nose out of the water with a trailing sea

Amenities
What have they done new or different, usb ports, phone storage, seems Vexus has several things others aren't doing, so I guess what is new to me based upon my 2018 Ranger

Feedback from owners
I'd like to start soliciting from guys that currently own each kind of boat, what is your 3 favorite things about the boat, and then what are three things you'd change if you could. Then kind of see what patterns develop from that feedback.

If I were to grade my current Ranger Z521c on a scale of 1-20 for those 5 criteria, I'd grade 17 out of 20 on Fishability (that'd pretty much be a really high score, somebody would have to blow me away to score higher). Boat is super stable and laid out well, maybe ding a smidge because I don't love the one giant box on the front deck, but that's a personal preference thing so maybe more mention it than score it.

14 on Fit and Finish (which would have been an 18 or 19 on my 2015 model), I've had trim issues, had a box lock come apart, had to rebind the wires under the dash as they started dangling down, etc

Performance I'd give it a 15-16 only dinging it for top end speed, again a 17-18 would be a score of excellent (but maybe I should allow 20's?).

Amenities 14-15, very average, don't think they are doing much different than they were 10 years ago.

Then probably 14-15 for feedback as so many guys are leaving Ranger that says something, but then some guys that leave and come back.

Wondering if I should include trailer in one of the areas above? Then have 10 bonus points for tournament guys for contingency prizes from manufacturers. So in theory top score for non-tournament guys 100, for tournament guys 110, but as I generally think most boats have some things they do really well and some things they don't, any score in the high 80's would be spectacular.

Curious everybody's thoughts on what you would change or add, any feedback appreciated?

Oh and last thing, for Feedback, I've talked to several fiberglass shops and asked them "based upon the boats you cut the bottom out of, what are the 3 best built". So far answers have been pretty consistent. Thanks for any feedback guys, I drive my first two next week so like to have this scale figured out.

Looking forward to the read sir. I am torn between fxr 21 and a 521. Hoping to see what you think of the fxr

I'd consider the trailer before contingency money. You have to win (in eligible events) to get that money, you will have your trailer all the time.

I think that some of these items are owner biased for sure.

Very interested in your project.

I'd add trailer quality to overall fit and finish, kinda consider it part of the whole "rig" as one should when they're shopping. Generic trailer vs custom built, fiberglass fenders vs metal, protective coating vs painted, quality tires from the factory vs cheapos, etc. Spends more time on the trailer than in the water in the end.

Fishability would be number 1. Ease of driving number 2. Will said company be here still before my warranty expires number 3.

Livewell system needs to be considered as well as if a jack plate is included and which type. And trolling motor and battery size and type. Also tandem or single trailer and options other than carpet. When looking for my "new to me" boat single axle and carpet were deal breakers...

Chris....need a crystal ball on who will still be in business (never imagined Legend or Evinrude going away?).

On driving, are you talking about turn loose of the wheel and it drives itself, like my Ranger, or where you gotta "drive it" like a Cat or other go fast boat.

On trailer, agreed the more I've thought about it, my Ranger trailer has a parking brake....why don't all of them have that, seems so simply easy, but then i think steps come on a Cat and maybe Nitro trailers, again shouldn't that be standard for all.

Bronco I thought about livewells but not sure how to judge that.... is bigger better, is deeper better, is oxygenator standard these days for all or do they matter. You guys telling me specifics of what yours have or don't have and you like or dislike helps a bunch.

I’m a two boat owner. I keep mine a long time. Last year I sold/gave my 25 year old champ to a friend and replaced it with a basscat lynx. No plastic the 25 year old dash looked new. I also have a 2013 basscat puma.. I would not buy a boat that had any plastic or whatever it is called. I think basscat and charger are the only ones doing this. I am not fond of the forward trolling motor position of the puma. On the lynx you can move it back. I think you can on the new. cougars as well. Superb trailer. If there was a better all around boat than a lynx with a 300 I might buy it. If there is it is probably the basscat cougar hybrid running a champ 203 hull. Good luck

I tend to think brands that are selling high numbers of boats and have been around for 75 years are more likely to still be around. We have all seen brands come and go and you know what the value of the boat is going to do if the company goes away. On driving, yes I prefer a boat like your Ranger or my Skeeter that I can drive with one finger while drinking my coffee down the lake at 60mph+.

Ken I sure would like to hear your result after riding in a Basscat/Champ hull hybrid! Ya gotta do it. I'm in a Legend now, but considering a BC.

Ken,
You are making this to damn complicated. It is just a boat/motor not my life insurance or retirement finances. Actually, remind me to not let you work on my life insurance because I might die first while you analyze it.

Ken,

I do the same thing with vehicles when friends ask me my professional opinion on a couple or more that they are considering.

Of course what might be important to me in a vehicle or boat might not be as important to them so the unbiased opinion comes to play there.

i don't tourney fish so some of those things wouldn't be important to me but my thought process might include something that a tourney fisherman might overlook if they get "tunnel vision" looking at tourney specific features.

I like the systems with multiple pumps...pump in, pump out and recirculate with timer. Many use fewer pumps and valves that have to be set in certain positions to do different operations, a PITA!

My thoughts exactly.

Hey Ken
You might give Ryan a call at Ross Motorsports (Lufkin)
They have a Puma 203 Hybrid with the Champion hull. You had mentioned you might want to run one of those to test

Been watching you a long time Ken. I figured you would already know all of the numbers for all of the brands by now.

Don’t you think most fellas will be a bit disgruntled and therefore not give weight to your analysis if they don’t agree? Not that it makes a hill of beans but we are a biased lot.

You’d have to have Ranger #1 and Skeeter right behind them or the TFF servers would explode. I’ll rent you a Ballistic 223 for the day really cheap when you’re ready. You have to pay in Rayburn spots.

I think you’ve got a great idea.

Neal, definitely interested in screwing up your life insurance...

Taking the Puma hybrid out this week, and I am probably going to hurt some guys feelings, but if you think a 2018 Ranger has the same fit and finish as a 2015.... well I don’t think your being honest with yourself (I’ve had both). Im going to give my most unbiased because i don’t have a boat affiliation, and if I like or dislike something I’ll give my honest opinion! I suspect they’ll be things l like and dislike about all, we shall see soon!

You can drive a basscat with 1 finger with the right prop and setup

I have found your videos useful so I am looking forward to your series. The only other thing you might consider is cost and difficulty in routine maintenance. I think this will be very popular series.

i am a Ranger guy and have a 2015 520c, so I am very interested in hearing all the good, bad, and ugly on your findings with all brands including mine. I think you do a hell of a job with your videos. Very informative and appreciated.

The perfect bass boat has not been made yet. All of them have little quirks. Here is my two cents worth on the older Champions.

I agree that the old Champion 201, 202's had the best rough water ride of all bass boats. However, the very thing that made them so seaworthy also made them list badly when three guys were standing on the same side of the boat fishing down a bank. Their narrow rounded hull bottom that made them ride so well in 3 footers also made them unstable at rest.

The way the transom angled in toward the motor also contributed to their rough water ride. Look at the transom of a newer Skeeter and how it is designed compared to a Champ. The Champs had small back decks due to the design of the transom but it helped make the boat ride like no no other bass boat. I am not saying a Skeeter is a better boat but the Skeeters have the best at rest stability of any bass boats due to the wide beam & sponsons on the transom.

Personally I do not like the look of the pontoon-like sponsons on the transom of the Skeeters but they serve their purpose. First, they add stability at-rest. Secondly, they minimize backwash when you come off plane quickly. Skeeters used to be notorious for wetting down your backside if you chopped the throttle and let the boat settle down into the water quickly. They also help the holeshot.

I've spent many hours in an older 202 Champ and will agree it is the best rough water hull in the industry but the at-rest fishing platform leaves a lot to be desired. The beam is 86" on the old 202's. A buddy of mine being a loyal Champion guy, sold his 202 and bought the (then) new 206 "Widebody hull" that had a 95" beam. The very first thing he noticed was that it did not have nearly as good of a rough water ride. The 206 was still a great boat with bigger decks and more stability at rest but the 206's are not as sought after as the 201's & 202's.

Hope you are able to try an Xpress and Vexus. Be interesting to see how they compare in terms of performance and price/value.

Ken, I bought a new 97' 202 from Fun n Sun and kept it 20 years. Finally let it go 2 and a half years ago. Def best ride, and I guess I never had 3 guys in the boat all that often so the "tippy" part of that never bothered or affected me at all. The beam was smaller but the layout on the front was awesome. The two rod lockers were big enough that you could literally lay down in them if needed. (Ask me how I know...lightning storm on Ray Bob in the back end of Wolf!)

Moved into a Legend and like it ok, but it does not ride like the Champ. I'm very curious as to how the new Hybrid Puma/Champ is gonna ride and handle. I love BC speed, but my buddys Pantera will beat the kidneys out of ya. Still considering an Eyra as it's the only 20 footer that will fit in one bay of my garage. But if that hybrid rides like the old Champ the truck may have to park outside! Good luck.

Ken,
I think you've got a pretty good criterion. As we talked about earlier, I'd add something about the trailer - it can really be a plus or big detractor to a rig. Good back-up lights? Steps? Bunk board size (2x4 or 2x6)? Speaking of rig, is it easy to rig with electronics? Are the gunnel traces large enough to get cables down easily? Will it handle big graphs in the console and bow panel? Stability of the company as we said is a big deal, especially in this economy - it will take out some of the manufacturers. Finally, I'd look at resale. Look at the new versus 1 year, new / 3 year, and the new / 5 year prices.

You've got to know this will be a melt down. "My Charger/Sheeter/Ranger/Triton is faster/smoother/louder/quicker/quieter than a Ranger/Nitro/Skeeter/Charger/Phoenix".

Let me know when you're ready to test them, I can do camera boat stuff. By the way, you also need to be sure the trailer wheels come with blinking valve stem caps!

Ballistic is the only boat that currently may sway me out of my Phoenix, if you get on one of those Ill be very curious about your thoughts.

Every boat has something they don't do well, And somethings they do very well. Fishability is all about the same considering the newer wide body boats. Layout is all personal preference, Fit and Finish is something I think we can all agree on.

To me resale can be a myth. What I have found in a 5 year period we all loose the same amount on most boats. Now greater then 5 years, well that can be a different story.

My new Nitro will be up there in a few weeks, All I know is there are things I would like them to improve on, and a few things they do better then the others boats.

Great cirteria. Look forward to following and tallying the results!

Really surprised that nobody mentions the Chargers with the Champion hulls (Charger Elites). Charger is a Texas company and seems to build a quality product. The few I've been in (just kicking the tires) I liked their layouts.

I've been in a CHampion since 2005. Weakness is how high it sits makes it catch the wind more. I'd think the Charger would have this same characteristic.

I've heard that since JM acquired Ranger the quality has gone downhill.

If you aren't keeping but 5-6 years then I definitely wouldn't sweat the choice too much. Fishing Rayburn I'd have to put performance/ride at the top of my list.

Anyone with any experience with Falcons? We have a new local dealer who is advertising on TV a lot.

Buddy just bought a new Ranger and it is one of the best looking boats I’ve seen on the water but he is NOT happy with it.....had all kinds of issues with it?
I couldn’t believe some of the stuff he’s having to mess with

May be what Ken was talking about with the fit/finish of the older Rangers vs the new ones?

It would be nice if they were a Texas company, then there might be more around here, but I believe they are from Missouri...

Yep, Missouri Company

How easy is the boat to modify?
Gear track systems?
Is it user friendly? Easier to maintain? Widely available replacement parts?

We know you are a numbers guy Ken. So am I. Numbers don't lie like fisherman!! That being said, I definitely think some emphasis should be placed on the trailers as well. So many things like lighting, brakes, wiring, wheels, tires and wheel and sizes/styles, swing-away tongues, spare/ease of changing a tire, boarding steps, bearing maintenance, bunks, ease of loading/unloading, and overall durability should be considered. Maybe not as much on trailers as fishability or some of the other criteria you listed, but I think trailers definitely deserve some weight.

Mr. Ken - I look forward to following your project. The mention of the livewells made me think of the interesting design of the Big O boat livewells. They are round, insulated, large, and have been proven to protect fish in rough water conditions. Based in Florida so they corner the market on wind and rough water when looking at O'chobee and the bays. Big O Elite Crossover

I have talked to the owner a few times and a couple boat owners and nothing but positive reports. They aren't cheap but then again quality never is.

This is not a commercial for Big O rather a look into an unorthodox design. Does it take up usable space? Sure but needing to carry bags of ice in the summer to ensure your catch survives takes up more space in today's 'modern' boats.

As mentioned in a thread response....there is no PERFECT design.

Yes MO. Have you priced a new Charger? I am good friends with Billy Sartin at Fork. He was pretty pumped about selling them until they gave him a 20% price increase from 2020 to 2021 year model. That's $8 Grand on the hull & trailer alone.

Typical price increase is 3 - 4% a year. That puts them in a pretty elite price category for a boat that has a very small following to begin with.

Gotta make a profit somehow when they only made 25 22 boats last year.

Edit: Found this on another site but not sure if the validity of it.

Charger made in Missouri.

Gonna get interesting Ken. IMO only two rigs in the loop; Ranger and Skeeter. Bass Cat, Phoenix and others are fast. My rig is for fishing. When the trolling motor is down, it's gonna be Ranger or Skeeter. Can bring the 2020 521 L down next week if you wanna spend a couple days on the water.

It does ride like the original 203

Making a profit is what capitalism is all about and I am all for it. If the dealer cost goes up $8K from one year to the next that means the dealer will have to raise his selling price by $12K to make his profit. That's going to put that rig in the $82K range with small graphs & no PP's. That makes Chargers unsalable in TX, I don't care if they ride softer than a velvet marshmellow.

Looking forward to your reviews.

The setup is key here. Things like prop selection & motor height play a huge role in how a boat handles at low & high speed. On one Bullet I ran one prop on my boat that had so much steering torque you could hardly drive it. Changed props & lowered the motor a little bit and all steering torque went away.

Two of my buddies bought brand new FXR 21's. One from Fun & Sun and one from Plano Marine. Names are being withheld to protect the innocent. Only difference being one is white and one is gray. One of them porpoises at any speed below 40 mph even with the trim tucked all the way and lists to the port side at same speed. (No it is not the way the boat is loaded)

This also has a negative effect on the rough water ride because the vee of the hull is not hitting the water squarely, rather the boat lands to the left of the vee as you come off a wave. To be fair it was the very first FXR this dealer had ever sold.

The other boat rides level with no porpoise or lean at low speeds. It rides very nicely. One of the owners took his boat back to the dealer and mentioned the lean & the low speed porpoise and the salesman told him he wasn't trimming the motor all the way under. I'm like, are you kidding me??

What really steams my broccoli is that you go to a dealer and spend $85K on the Flagship bass boat and the dealer doesn't even take the time to go to the lake with you with a couple props to help you get the optimum setup. This is especially critical when a boat manufacturer rolls out an "all new hull design" like the FXR series.

Spending an hour with someone that knows about setup can save you many hours/days/weeks or even years of frustration on the owners part.