Texas Fishing Forum

cheaper 36v lithium option

Posted By: Allison1

cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 01:54 PM

[Linked Image]

https://ampedoutdoors.com/collectio...v-trolling-motor-lithium-battery-lifepo4

They are out right now but this appears to be a huge drop in price for a 60ah 36v battery, with charger.
$1299.
Posted By: Tiltman

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 01:57 PM

wow......I might try one of these.
Posted By: Walls

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 02:36 PM

I've had 3 of the Amped Outdoors 60ah 12V batteries on my troller for a couple of months and they are ridiculous. You could actually get my set up for a little over $1K if you already have a charger that can handle lithium. I have an Ultrex and have run it for two 8-10 hour days without charging in between them. And of course one of the main advantages in Lithium is absolutely no drop off in power over those two days. Charger was all green within 4 hours after that test as well. Dropped 180# of weight in the back of the boat and gained a lot of room in the bilge area as well. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Amped Outdoors- just sharing my experience.
Posted By: Burbarry

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 03:38 PM

Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.
Posted By: Walls

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 03:54 PM

I have an Ionic 125AH Lithium as my starter battery for the past 9 months or so and it has performaed flawlessly. Got it from Andy on BBC.
https://drewcraft.com/product/125ah-12v-ionic-lithium-battery/
Posted By: Fishinfellow

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 04:27 PM

Shoot for that price you could get 2 and run them in parallel lol.
Posted By: BigDozer66

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by WALLS
I have an Ionic 125AH Lithium as my starter battery for the past 9 months or so and it has performaed flawlessly. Got it from Andy on BBC.
https://drewcraft.com/product/125ah-12v-ionic-lithium-battery/


I got a price on one of those and a couple of the 50's to go in mine and I will almost certainly swap over at some point in the future. cheers
Posted By: Walls

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Fishinfellow
Shoot for that price you could get 2 and run them in parallel lol.


I get it as I thought the same for a long time. But the X2 power 31 AGM that everyone fawns over is $400+ tax and has a 4 year warranty, so I'm guessing 5 year max on life with diminishing power year over year. I got the 125ah Lithium on sale, little to no diminishing power through out the day or year over year, 41 pounds lighter, charge to full in less than 2 hours, and supposed to last twice as long (jury is out on that obviously). The trolling batteries were a no brainer for me as they are much more reasonably priced.
BTW, you would never need two of em in parallel no matter what you ran on the boat- but I know you were being facetious.
Posted By: SteezMacQueen

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 06:03 PM

That battery charger looks like it wouldn’t last a month in a boat, but what do I know. It’s certainly doesn’t look sealed, waterproof, or even water resistant.
Posted By: Tiltman

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 06:13 PM

Steez I would think you'd just take it in and out maybe. I would't mind that at all.


I am really giving that 36V some thought.
Posted By: Flippin-Out

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Fishinfellow
Shoot for that price you could get 2 and run them in parallel lol.

NEVER NEVER EVER DO THAT! (run any batteries in parallel) by choice on a boat, or elsewhere if you can help it. The reason is that as they age, one will discharge faster than the other, and that one will drag the other one down with it. If one has a bad cell, the other one will discharge itself trying to (unsuccessfully) charge the other. It does that as they are just sitting there, connected to each other, not just when you are running the trolling motor. Yes, the BMS in Lithium batteries will control this somewhat, but it's still not as ideal as a series battery setup.

Regardless of battery chemistry used, for trolling motor applications, it is far better to run a higher voltage motor so that you have properly sized batteries in series. Example, a particular power output (pounds of thrust) for a 12V battery/trolling motor might run at 50A load. You can get that same power output in a 24V system running a ~25A load. Guess which discharges batteries faster?

If I were going to run two 36V Lithium battery banks (because one might not last long enough), I would run off one until it reaches discharge, then switch to the other. That could be done with a mini-cutoff battery switch, or a setup with a manually switchable breaker on the wiring to each 36V battery. The breaker outputs would be wired together, and you'd turn only one on at any given time to get the desired battery isolation.
Posted By: Flippin-Out

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.
Posted By: 9094

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 06:59 PM

This a great company. I had a 50 amp go bad and he sent me a new one and a call tag for the old one.
Then contaced me to tell me that he had never seen one do what mine did and Thanked me for contacting him so he could make it right.
I 've had some other dealing with them and been nothing but happy.
Posted By: Burbarry

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Flippin-Out
Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.


Would it be better to just get a big AGM instead of dealing with the lithium battery down falls. I'm sure that the ones built for starting would be fine but sure that cost difference would make cost me about 3 of the AGM batteries. Weight isn't that big of an issue on my boat. Although when the trolling motor batteries need replaced that will be lithium.
Posted By: Flippin-Out

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 07:01 PM

Great to hear, 9094. One certainly likes to be careful when dropping that much coin. I prefer a 12V battery setup so that I have a swtchout option in a bind. With one 36V enclosure, if it fails, you are done. With 3 12V "batteries" you have other options to get back on the water quickly if need be.
Posted By: CCTX

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 07:12 PM

You might throw your back out lifting a 36v AGM battery—be careful

I think they do make 36V AGMs for some cranes and other similar equipment.
Posted By: Allison1

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Flippin-Out
Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.


BMS systems are rated for amperage. I don't know if they are affected when discharging. I play with lithium cells and plug in a 30A rated bms once in awhile just to make sure all the cells are equalized. It is never hooked up when charging. Normally the batteries don't need equalizing.
Posted By: fivebites

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by WALLS
I've had 3 of the Amped Outdoors 60ah 12V batteries on my troller for a couple of months and they are ridiculous. You could actually get my set up for a little over $1K if you already have a charger that can handle lithium. I have an Ultrex and have run it for two 8-10 hour days without charging in between them. And of course one of the main advantages in Lithium is absolutely no drop off in power over those two days. Charger was all green within 4 hours after that test as well. Dropped 180# of weight in the back of the boat and gained a lot of room in the bilge area as well. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Amped Outdoors- just sharing my experience.


Walls what's your response to the issue stated by Steez. Do you keep your charger onboard? Waterproof? Sealed, etc?

Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
That battery charger looks like it wouldn’t last a month in a boat, but what do I know. It’s certainly doesn’t look sealed, waterproof, or even water resistant.
Posted By: Allison1

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 08:54 PM

That charger should be waterproof. Its designed to be mounted inside a boat. I don't know how you can tell how well its designed by looking at it but I have no problems with it.

We don't see a lot of other chargers but the more robust chargers that I have seen all had fan cooling built in like this one does.
Many of the ones I see on salt water boats have built in cooling fans. They make it possible to put the same capabilities in much smaller cases.



That trolling motor in the pic on the first post is a Rhodan. Its got a good following in the saltwater arena.



Posted By: Walls

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/10/20 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by fivebites
Originally Posted by WALLS
I've had 3 of the Amped Outdoors 60ah 12V batteries on my troller for a couple of months and they are ridiculous. You could actually get my set up for a little over $1K if you already have a charger that can handle lithium. I have an Ultrex and have run it for two 8-10 hour days without charging in between them. And of course one of the main advantages in Lithium is absolutely no drop off in power over those two days. Charger was all green within 4 hours after that test as well. Dropped 180# of weight in the back of the boat and gained a lot of room in the bilge area as well. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Amped Outdoors- just sharing my experience.


Walls what's your response to the issue stated by Steez. Do you keep your charger onboard? Waterproof? Sealed, etc?

Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
That battery charger looks like it wouldn’t last a month in a boat, but what do I know. It’s certainly doesn’t look sealed, waterproof, or even water resistant.



I do not have that battery charger, so I cannot comment on it specifically. I have the Ionic battery charger and it has performed as it should so far. Mounted onboard exactly where the old, heavy one was.

https://drewcraft.com/product/ionic-battery-charger/
Posted By: Flippin-Out

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/11/20 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by Burbarry
Originally Posted by Flippin-Out
Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.


Would it be better to just get a big AGM instead of dealing with the lithium battery down falls. I'm sure that the ones built for starting would be fine but sure that cost difference would make cost me about 3 of the AGM batteries. Weight isn't that big of an issue on my boat. Although when the trolling motor batteries need replaced that will be lithium.


My personal opinion is you get the biggest bang for the buck, and certainly greatest weight reduction, from Lithium for the trolling motor. It's the most efficient, and the best technology match. If a boat owner has the money and wants it, it's a win-win I think. While I do not mean to discredit any of the battery models intended for a main battery, the starter battery requirements aren't as natural of an application for the Lithium technology we have currently. To work as a starter, they are designed much more heavy duty to force a fit to the needs, functionally and in physical pounds, and you see less weight reduction when substituting one of these. Quality AGM batteries are quite rugged, and a good match for the application. They readily deliver the high amps needed to start a big motor. You already get the sealed-case and never-add-water benefit from AGM also. So, in my mind, it's less compelling to replace the starting battery. My preference is AGM for the starter, and a quality lithium jump-starter (2-3 pounds) as my backup to get going should that AGM ever give up out on the water. I'm not sure a Lithium starter would allow the use of a jump-starter because the BMS of the battery may open-circuit to protect the battery from the high-amp jump-start event. That would have to work in order for me to consider switching my starter battery to Lithium.
Posted By: C130

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/11/20 03:22 PM

I just replaced my cranking/electronics battery and went with the X2 from Batteries Plus. I looked in to the lithium’s but from what I was told and read a good AGM battery made more sense. When I replace my trolling motor batteries I think I’ll definitely go to lithium’s. Guy that owns the local Batteries Plus is a big fisherman and we talked about lithium’s and he said he’d like to see Batteries Plus start carrying them.

Batteries Plus has the X2 10% off if you order online and pickup in store plus a $30 mail in rebate. They had the battery ready when I arrived and everything was already completed.
Posted By: jazz

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/11/20 05:37 PM

those sure are pricey
Posted By: Walls

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option - 06/11/20 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by C130
I just replaced my cranking/electronics battery and went with the X2 from Batteries Plus. I looked in to the lithium’s but from what I was told and read a good AGM battery made more sense. When I replace my trolling motor batteries I think I’ll definitely go to lithium’s. Guy that owns the local Batteries Plus is a big fisherman and we talked about lithium’s and he said he’d like to see Batteries Plus start carrying them.

Batteries Plus has the X2 10% off if you order online and pickup in store plus a $30 mail in rebate. They had the battery ready when I arrived and everything was already completed.


Have not heard anything but positive reviews of the X2. cheers
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