Question about Lithium cranking battery

For those of you that have gone the route of Lithium batteries, what battery did you use for your cranking battery. I had ordered a FuelZero 100Ah battery for it and was told by the owner of the company they are really not designed for cranking because they have a max of 130 cranking amps and for only a few seconds. If its longer than a few seconds then the BMS on the battery will disconnect the battery. I did a little research and most places say the 250 ProXs requires at least 130. I am wondering if this is why I've heard stories of cranking batteries being absolutely dead on some boats out of nowhere.

relion hp100 made for starting

ionic 12 Volt 125AH Battery - 12V Lithium Battery
This is the battery i use on my pro xs 250
and three 100ah for trolling.
starts mine ok

I believe the Mercury Pro XS 250 specifies 1000 MCA. Whether you're quoting 130 MCA (rating at 32 F) or CCA (raing at 0 F), you're nowhere near what Mercury calls for. You will trash an expensive Lithium battery in no time trying to make it into a cranking battery. Lithium does lower deep cycle drains much more readily than short-term high amp loads such as the starter for a motor. Some companies offer a "heavier duty" lithium battery as serviceable for starting, but it's a challenge for the technology I won't invest in, and that might be worth noting as I'm an electrical engineer. Quite a few guys "go lith" for the TM, but NOT the starter. I'm one of those.

I run an RB80 Relion and it gets the job done..it’s never had the BMS disconnect and it’s ran 3 12’s pumps, poles, etc..but I can tell I’m tasking the hell out of that battery. It takes 3 times as long to charge as the same trolling batteries. I’d be confident with one of the Relion 100RB HP versions. If I had it to do over again..I’d stay with a Quality AGM for the cranker and lithium for the trollers. If my charger wasn’t completely reprogrammed for lithium...I’d switch now. I’ve been running lithium’s for over two years.

As i stated above, I have used the ionic 12 Volt 125AH Battery For about 8 months now, Made it thru the winter months with only one issue. It didn't like very cold weather, below 40.. It would trip the BMS the first time i tried to start the motor. 30 seconds later it would start. I learned to turn my graphs on before i launched and that would heat the battery and it would start and run all daylong, i actually only charge them every two trips, still use the minn kota 440 charger.
I also run three solix 15 and 12 and 10 units along with a 360 mega.
I also just added a Ionic jump box, that will take care of any low battery warning once detected.
Lots of information over on BBC take a look at the electrical thread and there enough info there to make a good choice for your application.

If your asking about a 250 ProXS 4 stroke I would highly recommend getting a 31 series AGM.
After reading all the stuff from Mercury and reading a ton of information on the internet. I sold my 125 ah lithium and bought a NorthStar 31 AGM.

This is what I use as well and it’s done well for me for nearly a year now.

Dean, I run a big AGM for the main battery as you now would prefer in hindsight. I charge the lithiums from a separate charger, so I pulled the original mega-heavy 4 bank charger from the boat, saving yet another 30 pounds. For the AGM I now use a NOCO Genius 10 charger (a new model with their latest technology). It's not a marine onboard charger, but it does have an IP65 rating (dust tight, water jet protection, just not submersion). That charger costs ~$100 on Amazon, should you ever wish to consider moving back to AGM for the main battery.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. This confirmed a lot for me. It appears several don’t think the current lithium batteries should be cranking batteries including the owner of the company I originally purchased from. Not sure what to do now but I’ll figure it out this week as I need to replace my cranking battery

I have run the the Relion lithiums for about a year and a half with no problems what so ever. The 100 hp for a cranker and the 100's for the trolling motor. The 100 hp puts out 850 cranking amps and the 100's about 200 amps, not enough to crank an outboard. I run one solix, two helix and a panotix all day with no problems. I also happen to sell the Relion brand along with all Continental products, Trojan, Odyessy, Optima, etc. Trojan came out with with a 400 amp cranker called the Trillium. Works ok with a trolling motor but cranking a big outboard is a little shakey.

Odyssey pc2150, x2, or the Northstar for cranking/dual purpose. The Odyssey will pulse 2150 hca and 1150 cca....

There are some companies who offer a beefed up lithium that can be a cranking battery (as I said before). Many lithiums are geared toward off-grid solar energy storage, and this is the leverage point for the lithium batteries suitable for trolling motor use. Some have tackled the challenge of offering a lithium cranking battery and some have just let that application go. I didn't mean for my prior statement to say it won't work, but you have to get the right one for it to work, and there aren't as many of those on the market.

I'm using the Relion HP100 as well and have had no issues. I'm not powering up a big 250hp with 4 graphs, (Rather a SHO175 with console 12" and bow 9") but I have had no issues so far.

Everstart Marine cranking.. Going on 4 years now. $79.99

not trying to hijack the thread.. but has anybody looked at Lifeline AGM batteries? Probably very expensive but look very good.
https://lifelinebatteries.com/intro/

good info...thanks for that.

Just curious,with the price of lithium’s, do you feel the price was justified?

4- 31’s from Orielley’s $500 ish

4- lithium’s around $3200
Granted they are much lighter, charge faster, and should last longer.

Am I missing other advantages?
Thanks just wondering

Yes, you are missing a thing or two.
1.About that 4th battery: As far as I see, there are limited choices for a lithium for the main battery (due to starting amps). Lithium shines best at longer lower amp loads (think trolling motor) and pretty much sux as a starting battery. The designs have to be beefed up considerably to handle it. More companies DON'T offer one than do. There's a reason for that. It's hard on the battery, and some company's don't want to deal with unhappy users when trying to sell one for main battery applications. I'll get slammed for saying this, but it's a weak point. Yes, some sell such a battery, and there are guys who have them working fine. I'm just saying it's not as robust in that application.
2. They are sealed, and there's no liquid chemistry inside. Rear compartment will stay very clean, on par with AGM.
3. The charging voltage is higher than wet cell or AGM, so you need to have the right lithium-compatible charger to make sure lithiums get fully charged and don't degrade over time. A regular charger will never fully charge them; just how much varies, with some only reaching 50% charge. Doing this continually will reduce battery service life. Some traditional chargers can be reprogrammed by the manufacturer for a lithium profile, btw.
4. None of them that I have ever studied specs on can be charged below 32 degrees F. Do that and risk damage or destruction. This is an issue inherent with the lithium cell technology at this time. If you use them in weather that cold, you'll need to plan to warm them up to charge them.
5. As you pointed out, they are lightweight, recharge quickly, and have a long service life. (Some can last as much as 10 years.) That service life hopefully amortizes the cost to a reasonable level.
6. One of the biggest advantages is the discharge curve. Wet cell batteries, including AGM, begin dropping voltage rather rapidly as the battery discharges, getting to a point where the voltage is so low you don't get much power for the TM.. A setup with conventional 100AH batteries may last X amount of time in use for a day on the water. Lithium batteries have a different discharge profile. They run right up to the end with little voltage drop, then fall on their face. BUT, with 100AH Lithium, that point in time can be 2X - you are unlikely to run out of TM while fishing. You can stomp that button more than ever before.

I normally only keep a boat 2-3 years, have basically had zero issues with optimas, no way i can justify paying 3 to 4 times more for the lithium batteries, I can see it if you keep your boat for 8-10 years or you have a performance boat and want to run 100 mph.

I understand. But, curious about concern for putting the $ into batteries when you have got to be taking a bath on changing boats every 2-3 years? If you wanted lithiums, you could always move them into a new boat, move the wet-cells into the one leaving. If you're sponsored or own a dealership, then maybe that's how you don't pay a huge price for a new boat that often.

I have less than 2K in a 125ah starter, three 60AH trollers, and a 4 Bank charger made to charge lithium. All brand new.

Care to share brand and where to buy?

If you are referring to me I do not feel like I am taking a bath on boats by trading every 2-3 years, my stuff is always new and under warranty, plus I have the latest and greatest, also as I stated i have no reason to try the lithium batteries because I am very happy with the optimas. I do the same thing with all of my construction equipment, there are two schools of thought, buy it and use it until nothing is left, or trade it off on new equipment while it has its best value.

Ionic 125ah starter (stud battery!!) from "Drewtick" on BBC last year when he had a sale. He has a website (https://drewcraft.com/), but you need to message him online or call him to get BBC discount. Also got the charger from him recently (Ionic as well). Amped Outdoors for the 3 60ah troller batteries. Just received them last week and it was less than 1K to my door with the discount code (JARRETT). That was a heck of a deal from my perspective. I usually spend @ $500 on 3 31 AGMs (Sams Duracell) for trolling and they last 3-4 years. Less than double that for the lithium and I "should" get 8-10 years of life. I will also get a much better performance at the end of a windy tourney day, faster charging, and 140# less in the bilge for trolling batteries.

Just thought this was worth reporting back. I talked to 4 different people that I would consider "experts" on Lithium batteries. In summary, every single one I originally looked at in the 100Ah rating clearly states or stated that they are NOT designed to be a cranking battery because of the risk of a BMS disconnect if your motor doesn't turn over right away due to a lack of sustained cranking amps. I had owners of companies specifically tell me this knowing they were losing a $600-$1000 sale because of it. Well, I finally found one that works and they specifically state is will function as a cranking battery because they re-programmed the BMS for it. It's the Ionic Brand 125 Ah sold by DrewCraft.com

I got the battery in 2 weeks ago and installed it last week. It came with a 52% charge on it when it arrived. I connected to the MK-460 PC onboard charger I already had and set that bank specifically to charge on the AGM setting. This was recommended by the owner of the company as well. I was able to watch the charging process of the battery on the App I downloaded. It was fully charged in about 3 hours. Set out the next day to practice on a Tawakoni for Champs. We fished 7 hours and ran the big motor the normal amount you would in any fishing day and had Livescope running the entire time which has become known for draining batteries quickly. Well when we got off the water, I looked at the app and the battery still had a 91% charge which I was shocked at. I think I found a winner in this battery and plan to swap out the current lead acid batteries for 50 Ah Lithiums in the next week.

Feel free to send me a PM with any questions. And thanks to everyone and especially Flippin-Out for the help in this process.

You will be very happy with the 50 AH Ionics for your TM if you have a 36V. I rarely drop below 80% charge after a full day. My worst day was an 20-30 MPH windy day on Falcon. Kept it on 7 or 8 just to find the wind and used spot lock a lot. I was at 67% at the end of the day. It was just as strong at the end of the day than it was at the beginning. Only about 3 hours to charge it back up. Fished two days on Buchanan where it was less windy but was at 72% after two days.
Having this kind of efficiency really takes the charging anxiety out when you stay at a hotel.

Thank you for the acknowledgement. I've been on my own journey of digging into this topic. Lithium technology is now moving swiftly from "unconventional application" (for the battery) to the next level where those who "do it right" have an impressive product. The cost still stings a bit, but hey, it's only money!

On Chris's comment about his experience with a day on the water: Conventional batteries take time to charge, even if you have a healthy charging amperage available. So, for the hours on the water, the time with the outboard running may not add up to very much "recharge" for a conventional starting battery. Lithium is different. It's not uncommon for the ones like we might use on our boats to readily accept up to 50 Amps of charging current. The rate of charge is much more rapid. As a result, your same outboard use on the water makes a lot more recharge impact on the battery. Couple that with the fact that their discharge curve holds voltage flat, and the term "game-changer" starts to come to mind. In some cases (not all, I admit) that an angler felt the need for a 5th battery in the boat, they may be able to once again drop down to 4 by using a heavy duty Lithium intended for starting duty. That would be a LOT of weight reduction.

I thought I had posted in this thread but maybe I did on the one on BBC.

I talked with Andy at DrewCraft about switching over in my boat.

He recommended the 100 Ah and 2 50's and said my NOCO Gen3 would do well.

I only have a 115 SHO so that might be the difference from you guys that need a bigger one for your 250's.

I plan on doing the swap in the future when the planets align.

Lithium technology has a lower resistance to flow than lead acid or AGM's.

They do charge faster because it does not have that resistance.
There are a ton of different lithium chemistries. I have cells that can be charged from 0-100% in as little as 6 minutes without damaging the battery. A 12 cell X 20A battery (15v@40AH) with this technology will turn my diesel over noticeably faster than the two 120A batteries wet cells that is usually required to start it.
I don't use it regularly but if I did I would use a balancer which is like a cheap replacement for a BMS. You have to plug it in and check the cells to verify that they are all of a similar voltage.

The limiting factor of most lithiums for marine applications is the BMS system in it. The difference between a 70 amp BMS and 200 amp system is around 150 dollars more so the batteries normally used for trolling motor service probably don't have a BMS system large enough to handle the current required.