Boat captain question

Can people hire someone to be their boat captain in high school fishing. A guy told me a few years back that a kids rich parent in highland park bought a guy a brand new Skeeter so he could be a boat captain for their son and “guide” them so to speak. I figured there enough people on this forum that would know if that could be true/legal.

One of the reasons I asked is because I started to wonder as high school fishing gets bigger, more scholarships get awarded, I wonder if it would be any different then getting a tutor in a subject in school. Or his plenty of kids spend thousands on sending their kids to hitting and pitching clinics for baseball or football camps for football. Kind of seemed like there would be a niche market there for Guide’s but different.

Everything high school usually revolves around UIL. Don’t see why the bass team would be any different. I would check there and see what (if any) rules apply to boat captains. As far as your examples, those things usually are not involved with school functions directly.

I could easily see that happening

UIL has nothing to do with High School Bass Fishing at this time at least, but I doubt it ever will. As for the main high school tournament series, I looked at their rules and I believe this would technically be against the rules but the chances of being caught are probably slim and it is somewhat a grey area so it might not actually be against the rules. Under Purchasing of Information, their rule states no purchasing of GPS coordinates, guides or coaches. Under Captain Eligibility it states it must be a school faculty member, close family member or other individual approved by the tournament organization. Captains are allowed to receive up to $100 per day for fuel/maintenance costs.

Is there a way around it and is it possible that it has occurred? Probably if you can get them approved as a captain and then do it without anybody knowing.

Very interesting. Thanks for the response!

Most high school tournaments don’t allow guides or pros to captain. Having a paid boat captain would make him a pro so this would probably be against the rules. I know of a series that allows pros or guides to captain as long as their kid is on the team fishing out of his or her boat. You really need to know the rules of the particular tournament series and the circumstances.

The guy I was told about was not a guide or pro. Just a good fisherman who was a stick and won a lot of tournaments/money. Media’s, bass champs, ect...and knew the lakes really well.

I would not be surprised in the least bit if that occurred.

I'm just putting it out there. If some rich parent wants to buy me a new Skeeter to captain their kids I'm game.

That’s what I’m thinking!!! I’ll even take them practicing. Give them on the lake seminars with tips and techniques. We can even put a performance clause in there! I’ll have your little Hunter or Hayden heading for a scholarship in no time! Way easier than the college scandal paying for your kids to be on fake athletic teams!

Years ago at a skeeter owners tournament I remember a skeeter owner "partner" was Rick Loomis. He won 1st place boat. That's when I quit fishing it.

Happens all the time.
I know guys who get called every year because they are good on the lake that the tourney is going to. Parents want the local "stick" for a captain so the kids can win.
There is only so much that can be done to try to limit this. It doesn't matter what sport little Johnny is in, there are parents who will push the envelope or flat-out cheat so that their precious bundle can win. In this instance, it comes down to the captains to police themselves.

I dont know the rules for Deep East Texas, but my understanding of the THSBA rules is that hiring someone to captain for your kids would NOT be illegal as long as:
1. They have not been a guide on the tournament lake in the last 30 days
2. Cannot have entered a tournament with more than a $5000 entry fee
3. Must be 21 years of age
4. Must be safe sport act certified.

I'm certainly not an authority on this. Just the way I read the rules. Some of the things FXfromTX made reference to are more about the no information period than captain eligibility. As far as the $100 per day he references I have never seen that, but I don't have the rule book memorized either. I captain for my son. We have had a few instances where a captain on the team could not make a given tournament, but have always been very fortunate to be able to find other volunteers. I think it's perfectly within reason for parents to pay for gas, travel expences, hotel, etc for a volunteer captain. Those expenses will almost always be way over $100. The scenario referenced by the OP certainly violates the goal of high school fishing, no matter the rules in my opinion.

Best to email THSBA if in doubt. They usually have a very fast response time. Other organizations like deep east texas may have different rules.

Why in the h*ll would that make you quit fishing it.

I thought that too! I think it’s kind of like demarcates, they don’t just take a second to think it through! He saw the name Rick Loomis and assumed he was a stick, when in actuality, it was probably the guy that Loomis was fishing with that was the better one! Think about it he’s not going to just go waste his time and fish with some average Joe who doesn’t know what’s going on!!! The guy probably was a good fisherman and convinced him he was on fish and that’s why he fished the tournament with him! It’s not for everybody though.

for real. It’d make me look for a different partner. Lol

Or the skeeter owner paid for a full day's guide fee for his "partner" and said let's fish out of my skeeter to make it look official.

Do you always avoid competitions where there is a chance that someone could be better than you?

I had some parents offer me $1k to captain their "team" on a lake I used to be decent on.

I countered with $5K they walked

Its already happening. As of now there are no rules in place to stop it..

It is against the rules to "hire" someone to captain your kids in a THSBA event. Captains can accept reimbursement for fuel, etc., but cannot be paid to captain. Secondly, guides can be eligible to be a boat captain, but it cannot be on a lake in which they have ran a guide trip, for bass, in the last 30 days. Like a lot of rules, i'm sure this one gets broken from time to time. The THSBA does a very good job maintaining the integrity of bass fishing at the High School level. Rules that are broken do not come with no consequence. A violation like this could cost your whole fishing team eligibility in future THSBA events.

Parents who offered Douglas J $1000 I’m a player at $1500! Pm me!! I’ll give u my resume! 😂

Happens often.... You got a good friend that's a local stick on said lake? Perfect boat captain. Just start looking at results and captains on certain lakes.

Where in the rules does it say you cant hire someone to Captain your team?

I don’t think that it does say that. And if it did would it be hiring or expense reimbursement? But doesn’t look like rules are against that either way.

My alternate partner KVD was busy that weekend. I'm sure nobody would gripe if he won a local tournament. I'm just saying that it wouldn't surprise me if people offered to pay a partner or boat captain.

Yes, someone can hire and pay whatever they want to a boat captain unless they are a guide on that particular lake they are fishing. There’s no limit as to what they can pay either, at least on one of the largest local organizations. The tournament organizers can say it’s unethical, blah, blah, blah. But, they’ve never changed the rule and they haven’t changed it for a reason.

I captained for my son every single tournament except one and started and oversaw the club. I tore out the lower unit pre fishing and the Torquemaster II was on backorder. I couldn’t find one anywhere and offered to pay a guy to take my son out. I didn’t know the guy and certainly didn’t expect him to do it for free. Long story short, another dad who liked to do nothing but cause trouble in our club called the THSBA and said I was cheating. This dad had never taken his son to a single tournament and he and his partners dad sought after one of the top guys around to be his sons boat captain. I got a call regarding it and I asked why he was calling me as it was 100% legal. I was told it was legal but not ethical. The amount didn’t matter because there is no limitation plus what he had been told was 100% not true. I told him if it was such an issue why didn’t he change the rules. Another year, nothing has changed so it’s obviously not a priority. Too many kids wouldn’t have a boat captain if they changed the rules.

I know guys that have been offered well over a thousand for one tournament. Plenty of guys getting paid what guides get paid and there have been guides being boat captains on lakes they don’t guide on, all perfectly legal. I miss fishing with my son as often as we got to do it but don’t miss all the other BS at all. Lots of great kids and parents, lots of kids that can flat out fish. But, there’s lots of parents paying their kids way to the top.

Exactly right, happens every tournament. A lot of these kids couldn’t find their way out of the marina but somehow get a top ten or 1st place finish.

Sooooooo would I post that under trading post, swap, and classified, or partner finder!????? 😂😂😂

I just can't help myself. I'm reading this thread and as I scroll I am expecting Big O to come on and preach about how the kids are being cheated and the tournament is going down the tubes.

Doesn’t surprise me one bit! My opinion is the captain should be a parent or close relative of the kid fishing. Of course I have no issues with a captain who helps less fortunate kids compete. I have no doubt people befriend the best stick in the area and then use them as a captain. They really need to tighten up the captain specs.

It wouldn't bother me one bit. If you care who you are fishing against. Tournaments aren't for you

Can't have it both ways...
I've been involved as a captain with THSBA almost since the very first event. My kids are long grown and my grandkids aren't old enough yet.
I've carried kids from one school for 5 years, this year I am captaining for another school. Alomg the way, I've carried kids that needed a "pinch" captain in qualifiers as well as a regional event. (Different division than my kids, their captain had a heart attack the weekend before the event) I know several guys who are in the exact same situation that I am and they are captain's- not for fame, fortune or pay - they do it to perpetuate the sport, they like kids and they wish to give back to the sport they love. Heck, I don't know if any of the board member of THSBA actually have school age kids anymore so they DEFINITELY are gluttons for punishment.
Not all kids have parents with boats or the means to purchase one. Believe it or not, there are actually people that don't fish (I know, blasphemy) but their kids love it.
Some people/parents are always going to push things to the extreme so that their kids can get a win. Doesn't matter of its fishing, showing animals, sports or buying their way into college. I refuse to live my life worrying about people like that - life will eventually bite them in the arse - hard.

I don't think Rick actually caught that fish. His partner Charles Pinson or Pince not sure is who I bought the boat they won from. I bought it in August 2002 a Skeeter SX 200 ran that boat til 2008 LOL

Jody

Exactly!! THSBA does all they can! It is up to the school sponsors, parents, and the kids to do the 'right' thing on their end and the boat captain to do the 'right' thing too!! I have been a captain for four years for two different high schools and with the rigorous back ground check and other training you have to complete to become a captain I am sure THSBA knows who to watch!!

I was joking I did not "counter" I graciously declined and gave them my personal opinion on paying for someone to give their kids a ride to catch fish. The kids are not learning anything about becoming a good angler, those types of kids are basically on a guide trip, IMO...

I did it for 3 years, was usually give a token amount of money that wouldn't begin to cover expenses. I wasnt out to make a buck so it was fine. As it got more and more and travel got more and more a little compensation would have been nice. Hotels etc are not free. It's my opinion that the non family captains, the ones the kids go out and recruit are sorely taken advantage of in this deal generally speaking and if they can get paid then get paid.

saw a kid shopping with his mom at dicks recently. he was begging her to buy him a bunch of Huk shirts saying he wanted to look like a pro. she bought one of each, almost a grand.

I agree 100%. Very good way to look at life in general. Well said.

My son and his partner will be stuck having to fish with me every tournament.

But, you’re a bass magician, so they’ll be okay!!

Much better than having someone else do it just so they brag and possibly place higher. I had numerous dads tell me “why would I want to do it when I can get someone much better and they have a chance at winning”. I just replied maybe because it’s your son and you get to spend time with them and it shouldn’t just be about winning.

My son had one partner and I had paid for every single penny including food, cabins, hotels, gas, etc. His dad agreed to rent a small cabin for us for one tournament. A few days before the tournament the dad said he, his son, and his wife decided to stay in the cabin and my son and I could find our own place. We stayed in a small hut with no water, no bathroom, just a small one room shack. Meanwhile I got up a 3AM with temps in the 30’s and hard rain later that day while he was in the cabin. These are people that live in a million dollar plus home so money wasn’t an issue. The kid stayed on his phone all day and didn’t fish then got smart with me when I told him to get off his opine and get to fishing. The dad always told me how great he was a fishing and all the tournaments he did so great in.

That entitled little sh** would have fished his last day in my boat. I would go tell millionaire daddy to buy his own boat and kiss my crack

Trust me, I told the kid and the dad what I thought. Kid told me it was a waste of time and he wasn’t fishing. I told him I got up a 3AM, it was pouring rain and freezing cold, and he’d better get to fishing. My son fished by himself from then on, that was the end of having a partner.

We had a dad that tried to hire a guide a couple days before a tournament. I told him if he did I’d report him and he’d be out of the club. Dad got mad, it was all my fault, and just more drama from some other parents because I was enforcing the rules. Now, the same dad helps oversee the club.

.

There are lots of great kids but way too many parents and kids buying their way in to the top. Yes, that’s life and we all know life isn’t always fair. But, maybe not fishing because you don’t have a boat or the dad is too lazy to take the kid fishing is life and fair also.

Yep, the Captain deal is way out of control in THSBA..., hoping they get control of it soon or it will ruin a great format for the kids.
We have a team on our school team that the dad “hires” a guy to take his kid and his partner. The rest of the teams all try to help each other at each event but they do their own deal and the kids aren’t stupid, they know what’s going on so some are leaving the club.

I enjoy the time with my boys when we “hammer em” and also when we struggle...these are days I’ll always remember

We had the exact same scenario. I was told by one of the kids that he and his partner had to swear to their boat captain to not give out any info whatsoever to any other club member. They wouldn’t give depth, baits, not one single bit of info even after the tournament. I’d rather suck at every tournament and never catch a fish and do it on my own than to buy my kids way to the top.

Kid still has to hook and land the fish regardless of who is sitting behind the steering wheel. JMO.

so the kid gets better at casting, great. Truth is, those kids are being robbed of some extremely valuable life long lessons fishing teaches that a lot of kids are lacking the chance to learn these days. JMO

I see both sides. Even if a kid can fish he’s only good as his captain or where his captain is willing to go. So it gets tough for a parent to watch their kid get killed, for the simple fact their Captain won’t go in Kickapoo to fish, or run up the river at Hubbard. A friend of mine sons fishes in caddo, and he had a tournament on Palastine last year where his captain literally fished the middle of the lake for 7 hours. Said they were looking for bass following the sand bass schools or something like that. He weighed in one fish with the guy the entire last season. It was so bad I started thinking that maybe this guy was purposely trying to keep those boys from catching fish. Which now that I think about it I guess if a parent was real crazy could go to somebody and say hey I don’t want you to do good so my Kid can win. Kind of like being paid to throw a game. I don’t think that happened but he could’ve literally got in a boat never having seen any of those lakes, and beat the bank every tournament for seven or eight hours and caught more than one keeper the whole year. I felt bad for him so I offered to let him fish TTO with me this year. After just the first tournament he was begging me to be his Captain for this year, and said he saw more fish caught then all of his tournaments combined last year. I just don’t have the time. Now if daddy wants to buy me a brand new skeeter....😂😂😂😂

Trust me, this ain't totally true.
Up until this year, I would have agreed with you. You would think that sheer volume of cast(s) would equate into at least one keeper a day...……..sadly, it isn't so. This has been the worst year I've ever had in THSBA (as far as getting the kids on fish and getting those fish to the boat)

It definitely could be very tough last year with 250 plus boats before they split up the Houston division. Generally small lakes, way too many boats, it was a total mess at times. Somerville was beyond ridiculous, we had guys cutting right in front of us. One boat captain tried to get between me and the bank and I was maybe 15 feet off the bank in a very narrow creek His big motor was running, was literally inches from my boat and about to hit it, his prop hitting the bottom so it messed up the entire area.

It’s just a joke allowing boat captains to be compensated with no limit. We had numerous dads with boats and they sought after boat captains that were much better for one reason; so their kids could place much higher. They told me this directly. We had a dad that got very mad at me because I wouldn’t give his son GPS waypoints. He said it was unfair. His son never pre fished and still doesn’t, just shows up tournament morning. He then went out and sought the top five guys in Houston, at least what he thought was the top five. He contacted each one and got a volunteer. Yeah, they still have to catch the fish but everyone knows that’s the easy part if you’re put on the fish, told what rod, bait, etc.

There are kids that get up at 2-3 AM for numerous days and drive 3 hours to pre fish every weekend. They do all of the scouting, put in a lot of hours, and can fish very good. Then you have the kids that show up tournament morning with their local boat captain, never even been on the particular lake, didn’t pre fish one time, and get in the top ten or win. That’s a joke, plain and simple.

Problem is, it’s about impossible to enforce a lot of rules even if they were implemented. Most schools aren’t involved in the clubs, tournaments aren’t school sanctioned, hard to prove a lot of the things we don’t like about it. We had a team that broke numerous club rules, dad cursed me out numerous times so I finally kicked the team out of the club. Tournament director told them they could fish anyways because they didn’t violate their rules. That’s kinda what changed my view about a lot of it. This was also the same team that wanted the GPS waypoints and demanded other club members give them their waypoints.

That's been the toughest thing for me over the past three years. You can put them on 'em, but you can't make the fish bite for them. I probably fish 90% offshore fun fishing and tourney fishing and have force fed the two teams I captain those patterns over the past three years. Most of the field is beating the banks and I just feel their best chance to win is fishing offshore. Both teams are finally coming around and seeing some success fishing offshore now. And to stay on topic, I do not get paid for captaining. One team is my oldest son and his best friend, and the best friend's family provides drinks and snacks for each tourney. The other team started out as a friend of a friend deal three years ago. I get the occasional gift card, but the main kid does anything I ask of him to help. (Clean the boat, organize tackle, organize the boat, clean storage, etc.) His dad is a mechanic and has done hub and brake work on the trailer, gives me great deals on mechanic work on our vehicles etc. Overall it has been an awesome experience and I love being on the water with these young men. I wish this was around when I was in HS.

As I’m reading more and more of these, and there are dads trying to find the “best guys” for particular tournaments, and seeing who it looks like it is chaotic at times, I wonder how many of those boat captains that are getting hired or paid end up contributing fish to the kids stringers?? I’ve never done it before. My son is 12 years old and I fish so much I’m probably going to have the kids that hate to fish LOL. But it definitely seems like some people enjoy and have good experiences and other people not so good and there’s a lot of [censored] to deal with. But I guess that’s with everything. Seems like the rules should be tightened a little more though. Seems like an easy fix would be once you start with a Captain you can not switch that season. That would keep people from hiring local guides or good tournament anglers on that specific lake. Then maybe you could have guys that would agree to be standby captains who don’t want to fish all the time but if for some reason a kids captain could not make a tournament because they were sick or forever reason there would be a list of three or four standby captains that they could choose for that one tournament.

Polygraph is real and functional in both THSBA and SETX for top finishers. I was fortunate enough to get polygraphed a couple times the past two years and "did you catch any of the fish that your team weighed in today" and "did you break any of the organization rules today" are both standard questions. There is a high probability that there are a few cheaters out there, but I feel certain that if they win, they'll get caught.

That’s not always the case. We had a team in our club that saw another team with a guide a couple days before the tournament. The boat captain was next door neighbors with the guide and had known him for many years. The team that witnessed it told the tournament director at weigh in. They were told they didn’t bring the polygraph test so they couldn’t administer it. They did call the accused team up and ask them and they said no. Team got 1st or 2nd place, can’t remember which. Like I said we had a dad that was going to do it. Whether he did or not I don’t know. I told him to just fish, teach his son the right way of doing things, and to not cheat, and if I found out I’d call the tournament director. Sad, but it’s today’s society.

I helped my son start his club and my wife and I oversaw it for three years. It’s shocking what parents will do and I don’t see how teachers do what they do. Most of the kids are great, parents not so much. I talked to a lot of other club advisors also, they all dealt with the same issues. Most parents/kids are great but there are the ones that are a nightmare and I got zero backing from the tournament directors. But as soon as a check bounced, which happened more than once, they’d call me directly wanting their money.

In theory, your idea is sound but it won't work. There are kids that scrabble for a captain at EVERY tournament. A lot of them are happy if they just get to go...
I don't like pinch hitting all that much. I don't usually know the kids, how they are/act, how serious they are (ask and they are all KVD), what their skill level is, etc, etc. I prefer to have a team where I can get to know the kids, teach them how to actually fish and watch them grow as anglers and young people. I've been very fortunate with this approach, the two guys I had for 4 years still call every couple of weeks and still come to the house to raid the fridge..
I guess for the last three year, Ive been a "paid" captain. One club gave a $25 gas card to each captain for every tournament the current club I help give $50 cash for every tourney. I usually stop and use the cash to buy the boys and myself something to eat on the way home.
Keep in mind that this program has gotten big enough and has enough recognition that most bass fishing guides are well aware of it, the rules for it and the reputable guides will let the parents/potential clients know that what they are asking is not allowed. Some have gone to the trouble to call the directors with the info on the offending teams, which led to a DQ before the event.
We as captains have the final say in how this will end up. You can't regulate it out, polygraph it out or write enough rules to make it go away, just as this started as a grass roots program(s) - it will be best tended by those of us that actually care about the sport as a whole.

I've gotta disagree on that. Catching fish is the easy part... nearly any skill level angler can catch fish if they're put on em. "Here's the spot, cast right over there" Guides are a prime example, if you know any ask them about some of their stories about no skill having clients catching fish. They'll be the first ones to tell you any Joe Schmoe can catch em, the difference in a spare and a pro is the ability to locate fish and adjust.


You guys are giving the THSBA a bum rap... look at how far they've come since this thing took off. The sheer size of this organization in Texas is mind numbing and its just a handful of people trying to hold it all together. We can all come up with a bunch of ideas on how to do things better, thats just dudes in general but throw in fishing dudes and holy cow... everyone knows a better way to do everything imaginable. Sure they still have some tweeks to do, those of you that have kids in High School could always volunteer your time, money, and efforts to continue improving the organization instead of just complaining about the short comings. Do something about it, make it better for the next round of kids so they dont have to deal with all this non sense.

28. BOAT CAPTAINS • All boat captains must comply with these rules:
a. Cannot have been hired as a guide on the lake to which they are a boat captain on within the past 30 days.

This rule, the way it was explained to me, encompasses the thought that if someone "hires" a boat captain, that would be the same as said boat captain guiding on tournament lake within that 30 day window. I may be wrong, but isn't this what the THSBA is trying to prevent under their set of rules? I'm not against throwing boat captains some cash for their time, but bidding on the best local stick at each tournament lake so your kids have a competitive advantage? Come on.......you guys don't actually agree with that concept do you?

I don't think anyone that is fair minded thinks that hiring the best local stick to drive your kids at each tournament is ethical. However, as with any rule, its all about how you can enforce the rule. At what point does it stop being a reimbursement and become hiring a captain? How do you audit the claimed compensation to prove one way or the other? THSBA doesn't have the staff to audit every "volunteer" captain's reimbursement/payment or lack there of. If you don't allow for reimbursement of expenses many of the volunteer captains would not be able to help these kids. I don't think most people commenting on this thread realize just how many kids are driven by volunteer captains instead of relatives. It's a huge number. May even be a majority in many divisions. I've seen both sides of this coin. My wife is the adviser for our high school fishing team and I captain my son and his partner. On one hand I see the unfair advantage gained by the very few that truly hire a captain. On the other hand I see how incredibly hard it is to get volunteer captains for some of the less fortunate kids. THSBA has shown they are willing to change rules to make the organization better. If this is as big of a problem as some seem to think, you should voice those concerns. I'm sure they will give them proper consideration.

I’ve been a thsba boat captain for 4 yrs. I think its not right when people HIRE a boat captain for money. Our school supports our team and fills up your truck and boat for each tournament and fundraising and sponsors pays for the hotel rooms but that’s it. Sometimes the parents chip in on expense but just to keep it straight I’d just as soon not take any money. It costs me money to do it, when you figure the gas and hotels prefishing and all the snacks drinks, baits rods and tackle, etc. but I don’t do it to make money it’s my way of giving back. I do think it’s perfectly fine to reimburse a captain for his expenses, but his time should be donated. For me it’s about keeping kids out of trouble and hopefully passing along something that will stay a part of their life. The first two yrs I captained for my son and another kid we didn’t know who became my sons best friend, they still go hunting or fishing on their own nearly every weekend and stay out of trouble. The kids on my team now wouldn’t get to go if I didn’t take them. If I can be a positive impact and they are busy fishing instead of having idle time and getting hooked on dope or worse, then that far outweighs the worry about someone hiring a boat captain and beating us. But, it’s just like any other sport, racing, life in general, some people will will push the limits and some will people cheat. I can’t say anything negative about thsba, I think it’s the best thing thats come along and it’s run by great people. Its a positive thing for so many kids that don’t play other sports and it gives them incentive to pass all their classes. It has also made me a better fisherman.

HUGE fan of THSBA - year 5 as a boat captain. I captained my son and his partner for the first 4 years. This year, I am helping with a team at a different school. I don’t expect payment, but do expect them to be serious and prepared. We hit their spots and I fish off the back deck for the captains side pot. I pick my moments to offer suggestions, try to keep their focus & spirits up, and help with the net. One thing my son and I had to learn was to not be jealous of the other teams’ success, new boats, or fancy electronics.

I really enjoyed the earliest years of THSBA, because with smaller divisions we got to fish a better variety of lakes. As a former bank fisherman, THSBA introduced me to lakes I never heard of. THSBA’s growth is a good thing, so I am not complaining.

If you are lucky enough to captain your kid, enjoy the time on the water. Four years of high school goes by fast.

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