Texas Fishing Forum

Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag

Posted By: TxBazzn

Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 02:33 AM

I was really looking forward to these results. Unfortunate.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...cking-study-comes-to-a-dead-15033732.php
Posted By: senko9S

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 02:45 AM

interesting where the transmitters wound up
Posted By: andy52887

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:01 AM

Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.
Posted By: Brent S

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:07 AM

Wow, that didn't last very long.
Posted By: bassmanrudy

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:15 AM

Dang. Would have figured they'd have tested it out some before hand. If it's all just cus of the cold water that's wiite interesting too. Wonder when Hope did all his tagging?? Kinda cool to see that 1 of the bass was eaten by some eagles!

Hope they figure the process out as I was really interested in how it would turn out.
Posted By: McLovin’

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:19 AM

Coullion...
Posted By: senko9S

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:20 AM

says it in the article, great book too; tracking trophy bass
Posted By: grout-scout

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 04:05 AM

Crazy too read and hard to believe that every one of the fish died. Hopefully the warmer water is the ticket.
Posted By: BigDozer66

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by senko9S
interesting where the transmitters wound up


Bottom of the lake, an Eagle's nest, and along the shore! eek2
Posted By: buda13

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 11:20 AM

Hope they get it figured out... really need to do some major studies at the lake formerly known as Fork to see why it’s become so awful!! Toledo Bend Fishing got tough because of the water levels, Cajun factor, and Bassmaster magazine naming it #1 in the nation a couple of times. Same death sentence Rayburn has been issued. I look forward to, at some point, seeing results of these tracking type studies.
Posted By: fishnfireman

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 12:55 PM

Quote
I was really looking forward to these results. Unfortunate
.

No doubt; a lot of folks wanting those results.. Thanks for sharing.
Posted By: Jarrett Latta

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by andy52887
Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.


Definitely Team Ziplocks fault. Probably filleted them and threw the carcasses back in the lake or in the woods....
Posted By: Tx Tree Grower

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 01:49 PM

Very interesting. They will get it figured out. Todd is a good guy that cares about his work. Who knows, maybe they even learn something new about fish stress in the winter that can help us all do a better job of taking care of our tournament fish. I think studies like this need to be done on many lakes across the state At least a few in every region. If they need more of the $175 tags to expand these types of studies, just ask for donations that go to their purchase. They would be amazed at the number of anglers and organizations willing to donate to such a study.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 01:54 PM

From the article it sounds like some sort of fungal infection. I highly doubt all those fish could have been caught an filleted in such a short period of time. Love to see they are back to doing these studies though. Anyone have any idea exactly what kind of equipment they are using? I've been tempted in the past to try and find the equipment to run my own studies, but have never been successful in finding something practical.
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by andy52887
Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.


Definitely Team Ziplocks fault. Probably filleted them and threw the carcasses back in the lake or in the woods....


That was my first thought, seriously it was lol
Posted By: photofishin

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by TxBazzn
I was really looking forward to these results. Unfortunate.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...cking-study-comes-to-a-dead-15033732.php

do you have a link to a site that doesn't require a subscription? The Houston Chronicle is horrible.
Posted By: BigDozer66

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by photofishin
Originally Posted by TxBazzn
I was really looking forward to these results. Unfortunate.


https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...cking-study-comes-to-a-dead-15033732.php

do you have a link to a site that doesn't require a subscription? The Houston Chronicle is horrible.



Quote
The 1 1/2-inch long transmitters cost $175 each. Biologists have managed to recover eight of the units from the lake’s shoreline thus far. One transmitter is in a bald eagle nest and another 12 are at the bottom of the lake awaiting retrieval by scuba divers. (Photo by Matt Williams)
2of2The 1 1/2-inch long transmitters cost $175 each. Biologists have managed to recover eight of the units from the lake’s shoreline thus far. One transmitter is in a bald eagle nest and another 12 are at the bottom of the lake awaiting retrieval by scuba divers. (Photo by Matt Williams)Photo: Matt Williams

A largemouth bass tracking study launched last November on Toledo Bend Reservoir by Texas Parks Wildlife Department inland fisheries biologists has hit a bump in the road that has scientists looking for ways to get their research back on course.

The two-year radio telemetry study was put in motion to learn more about how the popular sport fish react to fishing pressure and position in the water during varied conditions and changing seasons. Angler concerns over increasingly tough fishing witnessed on the Texas/Louisiana border lake in recent times helped spur the notion to move forward with the study.

Scientists say the project took an unexpected turn in the wrong direction when the first batch of study fish — 26 in all — died within about two weeks after the research got underway.

The 2-5 pound study bass were collected from 62-degree water in the Housen Bay area of the lake using the same electrofishing equipment fisheries managers rely on for conducting routine population surveys. Electrofishing temporarily stuns the fish and they float to the surface so they can be netted and individually evaluated.

Each study fish was carefully fitted with a small transmitter that required a small incision in the body cavity to implant the electronic device. The wounds were closed using sterile surgical threads and the fish were subsequently released in close proximity to where they were collected.

Researchers say the surgical process isn’t anything new in the fisheries science community. Biologists in other parts of country have installed transmitters in bass and other sport fish for other research studies with good success.

This is the first TPWD bass study of its kind, but it is not the first time someone has tracked beeping bass in Texas lakes. Former Houston County Lake fishing guide John Hope performed similar research on dozens of trophy class fish from 1986-94.

Hope surgically implanted transmitters in 57 bass ranging 6-15 pounds on 15 different lakes. He claims he never had a fish die in eight years of tracking them.
Looking for answers

What went awry with the Toledo Bend study fish? That’s a mystery TPWD fisheries biologists Todd Driscoll and Jake Norman are trying to figure out.

Driscoll is heading up the research at Toledo Bend. The biologist originally hoped to have 50 bass implanted with the $175 transmitters by the end of spring, and to be tracking the fish every two weeks.

Instead, he and his staff have spent the last month trying to recover what transmitters they can.

The battery-operated transmitters are about 1½ inches long. Each one has a unique frequency and delivers a strong beep signal that can be detected from a mile away using a special antenna.

Driscoll says eight of the 26 devices are accounted for thus far. Most were found in the woods or along the lake’s shore, where the dead fish were apparently eaten by scavengers.

Twelve other transmitters have been pinpointed on the lake’s bottom and will be retrieved using scuba gear later this spring. Another transmitter is pinging a signal from a bald eagle nest high in a lakeside pine tree.

Driscoll said the five remaining transmitters are believed to be on land, but can’t be pinpointed due a reduction in signal strength in the dense brush.

Norman rides shotgun over Lake Fork, where like concerns over tough fishing have warranted a similar tracking study. The Fork study, which was set to begin last December, was put on hold after Norman learned about the Toledo Bend mortalities.
Experimental findings

Subsequent experiments performed on study bass housed in controlled environments have produced some interesting results.

Before Christmas, Norman used the identical surgical process to implant transmitters in five Lake Athens bass. The fish were released in hatchery raceways at the Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center for observation.

Those bass died within a month. All of the fish had fungal infections that originated at the incisions and spread over their bodies, Norman said.

Using varied surgical procedures, Driscoll implanted transmitters in a dozen keeper-size fish from Sam Rayburn and placed them in hatchery raceways at the John D. Parker Fish Hatchery for observation.

He said seven of the 12 bass perished with fungal infections within 11 days. Interestingly, the remaining five fish appear healthy more than a month later.

“It’s been frustrating and confusing to say the least,” Driscoll said. “We feel certain it’s not our surgical procedure, water intrusion or the foreign body of the transmitters that are causing the problem, though.”

Instead, the biologist thinks the mortalities may be related to elevated stress levels caused by performing surgery when water temperatures are cold or on a downward swing as they were in late fall.

Driscoll says there is no previous research to indicate there is a bad time to implant transmitters in bass. However, it appears that doing so when water temperatures are chilly and unstable may not be a good idea, possibly because the bass’ immune systems are weaker than in warmer, more stable conditions.

He added that hatchery managers have witnessed escalated levels of mortality when handling hatchery pond fish in water temperatures near 60 degrees, but he was unaware of those findings before the tracking study got underway.

“Cold weather handling stress-related mortalities of bass is totally undocumented in scientific literature, but our hatchery people have seen it,” Driscoll said. “On one hand it doesn’t make any sense, because tournament-related mortality studies indicate the colder the water the better when it comes to stress. On the other hand, it appears that the actual incision is pushing the stress over the top and that the bass’ immune systems are lowered to the point that they can become susceptible to a fungus that can still proliferate with colder temperatures.”
Taking the next step

On Feb. 4, Driscoll implanted transmitters in five more control bass. Those fish had spent about 2½ weeks acclimating to 75-degree water in hatchery raceways.

How those fish fare in coming days may shed some light on where the tracking study goes from here, he said.

“Those fish should give us some good insight as to whether or not the problems are water temperature related,” Driscoll said. “We don’t know that’s what it is, but that’s what all the signs are pointing to. We’re going to see how our control studies play out before we do anything else on Toledo Bend or Lake Fork.”

Matt Williams is a freelance writer based in Nacogdoches. He can be reached by email, mattwillwrite4u@yahoo.com.


Posted By: David Burton

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jpurdue
From the article it sounds like some sort of fungal infection. I highly doubt all those fish could have been caught an filleted in such a short period of time. Love to see they are back to doing these studies though. Anyone have any idea exactly what kind of equipment they are using? I've been tempted in the past to try and find the equipment to run my own studies, but have never been successful in finding something practical.

They can't figure out the cause of it. It hit them everytime they tried the surgery since fall. Wow! The fisheries, TB, and others. The Fork Survey is being held for diagnosis... I hate it, but there is some funny irony about TPWD killing them vs tournament mortality...
Posted By: LA Ron

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mudbone
Coullion...

Court bouillon. Transmitter is a little tough!
Posted By: krthomas2

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by WAWI
Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by andy52887
Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.


Definitely Team Ziplocks fault. Probably filleted them and threw the carcasses back in the lake or in the woods....


That was my first thought, seriously it was lol

"Team Ziplock"...lololol thats a good one
Posted By: Chris B

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by andy52887
Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.


Definitely Team Ziplocks fault. Probably filleted them and threw the carcasses back in the lake or in the woods....

Rest in grease.
Posted By: BigDozer66

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Chris B
Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by andy52887
Jared will be along shortly to blame the cajuns.


Definitely Team Ziplocks fault. Probably filleted them and threw the carcasses back in the lake or in the woods....

Rest in grease.


grill
Posted By: Rog

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/07/20 11:02 PM

Caught a lot of sick bass at Fork this fall. Bet what caused infections also affecting fish in the lakes. Caught too many of multiple species covered in sores and with no weight this fall and fishing was terrible this fall.......looked like they had been filleted. Scale and bones. Saw the same in Roberts back in 2007/2008 time frame and couldn’t hardly buy a bite/fish during or after for a few years......
Posted By: Bass-N-Buck Master

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/08/20 04:22 AM

A lot of these fish that have sores and bacteria infection are caused by the fish hitting and flopping all over boat carpet that wipes off the protective coating They have and is rubbed off by the carpet and when realsesd develops the fungus, we as fishermen can almost totally stop this by limiting their flopping in the boat. I know we don't think well I've only let 3-4 hit the carpet but when you multiply that 50-100+ boats some letting more others letting less it does add up and over several years it's can become a larger problem. We as fisherman have to protect our sport if we want to continue catching and not fishing!

Good luck in 2020 and may your next Bass be your personal best!
Posted By: senko9S

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/08/20 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bass-N-Buck Master
A lot of these fish that have sores and bacteria infection are caused by the fish hitting and flopping all over boat carpet that wipes off the protective coating They have and is rubbed off by the carpet and when realsesd develops the fungus, we as fishermen can almost totally stop this by limiting their flopping in the boat. I know we don't think well I've only let 3-4 hit the carpet but when you multiply that 50-100+ boats some letting more others letting less it does add up and over several years it's can become a larger problem. We as fisherman have to protect our sport if we want to continue catching and not fishing!

Good luck in 2020 and may your next Bass be your personal best!



that's really pushing it. how many bass have you seen 30 days after being released? fungus and bacterial infections are 2 different things and are caused by a myriad of things.
Posted By: fosterfence

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/08/20 04:40 AM

I wonder if the lack of grass makes their immune system weaker?
Posted By: Jarrett Latta

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/08/20 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bass-N-Buck Master
A lot of these fish that have sores and bacteria infection are caused by the fish hitting and flopping all over boat carpet that wipes off the protective coating They have and is rubbed off by the carpet and when realsesd develops the fungus, we as fishermen can almost totally stop this by limiting their flopping in the boat. I know we don't think well I've only let 3-4 hit the carpet but when you multiply that 50-100+ boats some letting more others letting less it does add up and over several years it's can become a larger problem. We as fisherman have to protect our sport if we want to continue catching and not fishing!

Good luck in 2020 and may your next Bass be your personal best!



Atleast they have a chance. How about multiplying it by thousands and knocking their sides off 8 per man per day....
Posted By: Jeff From Iowa

Re: Toledo Bend bass tracking study hits a snag - 02/09/20 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Bass-N-Buck Master
A lot of these fish that have sores and bacteria infection are caused by the fish hitting and flopping all over boat carpet that wipes off the protective coating They have and is rubbed off by the carpet and when realsesd develops the fungus, we as fishermen can almost totally stop this by limiting their flopping in the boat. I know we don't think well I've only let 3-4 hit the carpet but when you multiply that 50-100+ boats some letting more others letting less it does add up and over several years it's can become a larger problem. We as fisherman have to protect our sport if we want to continue catching and not fishing!

Good luck in 2020 and may your next Bass be your personal best!



That’s a myth. There is a study in Iowa going on it’s 5th year of tagging and weigh Measuring of every single tourney weighed bass. That lake has wed sat sun tourneys. They also shock the whole lake shoreline once a month and track how the bass return to their area or not.
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