Sharelunker - Genetic Testing

This does not address the "where" question posted a couple weeks ago but does address the "how" a bit and the potential of the program. It would be interesting to see more data like this and a geneology based on the DNA over time. The outcomes are there but more time will have to pass to really see the benefits.

Lunker Genes

Interesting and I guess good news that the program has worked on some level.

some level... remember when you got a biology degree? no, cause you didn't. Tom is a Tff,er.

If I follow you are referenceing the 'Tom' from the article? Regardless of his background he was utilized as the mouthpiece for the data inquiry. This doesn't impact the data findings.

Great article on the success of the SAL program and how it has helped a mudhole like Marine Creek produce two giants (and other DD bass) that otherwise would have never happened.

I have been a long time supporter of the SAL program. Yes, I know there have been some flaws to the program and many fish have died while in captivity. Anytime a large bass dies in captivity it is kind of like the NFL kicker that misses the game winning field goal. The whole fishing community hears about it. Many of these fish over 13 pounds are old fish, 10-15 years of age that may very well have died anyway after being caught, handling for pictures and released back into the wild. How long do you think these fish live??

My point is that nobody would ever know if they died after being released back into the lake.

I have said it before and I stand by my statement that bass fishing in Texas is better in the long run because of the SAL program. All lakes peak in 15-20 years then begin to decline as a fishery. I know there are some of you that theorize that if you leave the bass alone in their natural environment they will grow to massive proportions and every year they will keep getting bigger & bigger. After watching a bunch of lakes in Texas over the past 50 years I am here to tell you that the chances of you catching a 25# five fish bag is much greater today than it ever was before the program started in Nov of 1986. The efforts of TPWD are largely the reason.

Ray Hubbard is a prime example. I caught a 7lb 7oz bass in a high school event in Jan 1975. It made the front page of the Dallas Morning News. Seven pound bass were rare animals in the 70's and even 80's at Hubbard, Cedar Creek, Tawakoni. A 5# bass raised eyebrows back then. Now a 7 pounder doesn't get a second look. Why do you think that is? Do you think just because the lake is 50-60 years old they finally started growing bigger bass?? Doesn't work that way folks.

The Florida genetics from the SAL bass have enhanced the overall health in most of the lakes in our state. I am a firm believer that if it weren't for Florida genes spread into other Texas lakes from the SAL program, you would see five fish events won with 12-15 pounds like the 80's. If you want to see evidence of how much better the bass fishing is in TX, go to a lake out of state that has never had any Florida genes introduced. Five fish 20# pound bags are unheard of.

I have no idea what Senko was talking about. If he thought my post was bashing the program or Tom, it wasn’t.

It's all good!

The new ShareLunker app has detailed description of how to submit genetic information for you catches over 8lbs. It'll help them better understand how ShareLunker genetics are spreading through our lake systems. It's a pretty simple process. The more data these guys have, the better the program will be. I plan to participate in 2020. Now I just need a pile of 8lb+ fish!

You and me both sir! Happy hunting!

This is absolutely correct and very well stated.

I’m not trolling here, it’s a serious question because I’m not near as “aged” as some of you guys. I have an older buddy (65) that talks about the old days and after the tournaments, there was traditionally a giant fish fry with ALL of the bass that were caught. I’ve never asked him what year this stopped, but I know it was sometime in the 80’s. I’m sure the SAL program has helped some areas, but what about just regular conservation from over the years?


Again, I wasn’t fishing back when these were being caught. The fish at Fork that have the records, they were regular Florida strain, not hybrids? If the SAL genetics are helping so much, how come nothings being topped?


Keep in mind, I’m not in North Texas, so I’m not sure how much influence the SAL program has on Falcon, Amistad, Choke. Seems like we are solely dependent on rain, which never seems to fall around here.

I’m not bashing the SAL program, because I’m sure it has helped some lakes like Ken mentioned; but I’m a bit skeptical that it makes fishing what it is across the entire state. If the SAL is 100% paid for by an outside source (like Toyota) then it’s a no brainer. If it’s paid for with state funds, it might need an overhaul.

My two cents on this matter: The dominate force in any system is going to be the macro events. Those being fishing pressure, conservation, disease, vegetation cycles, water levels, and the big one, fertility which is a function of reservoir age. These factors are going to have the biggest impact on how a lake is fishing. Good genetics in those lakes will help a bad year be a little better and a good years really shine. Genetics are not a panacea though. Your parents could be Shaq and Serena Williams, but if you grow up in North Korea you are probably going to be a runt.

Can you explain this post to me?

Thanks,

Jackson

Grout Scout,

You posed some good questions.

Your 65 year old buddy was most likely fishing tournaments when the 2 man bag limits were 10 fish per Team. Not to be argumentative but I was there and I remember. Texas native fish were easier to catch but the average size was smaller. Tournaments in the 70's & 80's were won with 10 that went 30 pounds not 5 that went 30. Ask him about the bag limits back when he fished.

The SAL program did not start until Nov 1986. You would not begin to see the effects of the program until probably the mid-90's. Everybody always points to the fact there have not been any other State Records since Fork. This does not automatically mean the SAL program was a failure. The SAL program was designed to enhance the Florida genetics in lakes ALL over the state not just to grow new state records. Prior to the program it was not common to see multiple 7+ plus fish in an event. Lots of folks have forgotten that.

Also the SAL program is not funded by the State.

Fork was built in the 80s, so the big fish-fry doesn't apply. They did not purge the watershed of native strain, so the FL genetics aren't 100%. But as to whether the records are F1 or some hybrid, I don't know. But I am sure one of the Fork originalists would.

Gotta somewhat disagree with you on this one buddy. There were lots of pure Florida genetics stocked in our lakes before the SAL program began with Ethel. And many of our lakes were beginning to chunk out some big fish before SAL ever came along. Ethel wasn't a result of the SAL program, nor was Barry St. Clair's Sate Record. Those were original stockings of pure Florida bass in brood ponds that were later impounded by Lake Fork. Most of the Top 50 Texas Bass were caught at Lake Fork and none of those fish were descendants of the SAL program. While I agree that some of the lessons from the SAL program have greatly benefited Texas lakes and fishermen, it's the pure Florida genetics imported to Texas by Bob Kemp in 1974 that had the greatest impact.

If we took all the $$$ invested in SAL over the years and simply used those funds to hatchery raise more pure Florida bass to stock in our lakes, we'd be even further along than we are, imho.

Someone chime in and let me know if I have these facts straight.

TPWD operates four freshwater hatcheries that use public money to stock a couple million Florida Strain bass annually in lakes across the state. In conjunction with TPWD, Toyota privately finances the ShareLunker program and operates a hatchery out of Athens that produces a few hundred thousand fry annually that we hope has superior genetics. Is that more or less correct?

Bingo

There are 5 freshwater hatcheries in the TPWD Inland Fisheries division. Dundee (near Wichita Falls), Possum Kingdom, AE Wood (San Marcos), Texas Freshwater Fisheries Center (Athens), and John D Parker East Texas Fish Hatchery (Jasper). Toyota sponsors the ShareLunker Program, but the hatchery is operated by TPWD.

I think you missed his point SMB. Four hatcheries raising millions of pure Florida bass versus one hatchery (Athens) raising a few hundred thousand (at most) per year.

I would love to see factual statistics of the SAL program DNA test. Like what % are most DD's DNA Florida strain vs native? I have 0 doubt that the SAL program has an incredible positive effect on Texas bass fishing. The facts also seem to show that true giants are more rare today than they were say 25 +/- years ago even though DD's may be more common or at least as common. My very uneducated opinion is that those long ago true giants were pure Florida strain genetics or 1 generation back. Now many years down the road, those pure genetics have been diluted too much to produce many true giants (top 10 record list), but the SAL program is optimizing the ability of our lakes to still produce DD's at much greater rate than would happen naturally.

The brood stock of all Texas freshwater fisheries now includes offspring of previous Sharelunker bass. Essentially all the FLMB raised now are technically Sharelunker bass - just may not be from fish donated in the year they were produced - if that makes sense.

Ken, .


I know I’m starting to get old when 1986 doesn’t sound like it was that long ago. 34 years...

What year was the LMB virus discovered, around 99 sound about right?

ah....Mr. Fouz nailed it....spend that money on growing 6" F1's instead of SAL fry.....throw in some fertilizing programs and bait restoration and boom....improved fishery for less money.

Chris,
Good to hear from you. I am very well aware there were lakes with pure Fla genes prior to the SAL program. Without those genes present Texas may have never produced a bass over 12 pounds. Several lakes started producing giant bass in 1980 starting with Monticello in Feb '80. It would have been very interesting if those funds had been redirected as you suggest.

However, the fact remains the fishing in Texas on the whole is better than 98% of the other lakes in the country and I believe the SAL program is a big contributor to that. Lots of folks on this forum are either too young to remember the fishing from the 70's & 80's or they have gotten spoiled (like me).

Being able to spend 250 days a year on Fork during the Glory Days of 1988-1992 set the bar very high for me. I am sorry for those of you that missed that golden era of bass fishing. It was almost too good to believe. I hear guys talk now of 20 bass over 5 pounds with two over 8 in one afternoon on Falcon or Baccarrac. That was an average day for the guides on Fork in the good ole days.

Yessir and the lake never fully rebounded IMO.

About that same time, Choke Canyon in South Texas started sucking real bad too. Elroy Krueger told me that he thought it too had the LMB virus. I know a couple of you guys are biologist here, were there any studies ever done on it and was there ever a list compounded with all the lakes suspected to have had it? Has it happened to any lakes since that 99 outbreak? I suppose I could google it, but I imagine some here know it better.

The LMB virus hit Rayburn in 98, and I believe it was a year later in 99 when it got Fork.

I am not sure what year God returned to earth and created the new species called the ShareLunker largemouth bass..

Oh, my bad.. I forgot that a SL fish is nothing more than a Florida Largemouth..

But you wouldn't think that if you read the propaganda from TPWD and a bunch of its minions..

The SL program had nothing to do with Forks glory years.. Or any other lake in the state..

It was, and is, simply the stocking of Florida bass..

Florida bass, stocked in Texas lakes, under the right long-term conditions = lots of big fish..

It ain't rocket science.. It's nature..

Chris, do you know what lake(s) those first Florida's from Bob Kemp were stocked in? I'd been told by some old timers that Hitt's lake north of Tyler got some after an oil spill killed off all the fish. I also know that sometime in the mid to late 70s that some Florida's were reared in a pond on the west side of Lake Palestine and dumped into the lake once they got big enough.

All of the Florida bass that Kemp imported went to the now defunct Tyler fish hatchery. That was in 1971, not 1974. Those fish were grown out to brooders and used to jump-start Texas' Florida bass production and stockings. TPWD imported additional Floridas from 1971-1973 and first began stocking them in 1972. Not sure which lake(s) received the first stocking in 1972.

https://www.theeagle.com/sports/out...f7d58f0-b7da-583c-95e4-3bceb7d9dbca.html

FYI, Lake Medina near San Ant was the first lake to show any signs of Fla genes when it produced a state record in 1943. It is still a mystery as to how they got in there. It has been theorized that some angler brought Fla bass back and dumped them into the lake approx ten years prior.

Bottom line is that Texas, as great as it is, would have most likely never produced a bass over 13 pounds without help from their Florida cousins.

The effects from the SAL program is now being seen at other lakes in the State as DNA testing has proven. See link from OP.