MLF + FLW = MLFLW

Ran across this a little bit ago.

The championship on the St. Lawrence River using the MLF format (the only event of the year that's not 5-fish format) will be ridiculous.

At least this should end all of the speculation. Other than a few really good anglers left completely out in the cold, everyone should have their side picked by the end of the yr. When this mess all started last year, I thought it could be the beginning of the end for BASS. Now that all the cards have been laid on the table, I'm starting to think this could actually be the best thing that ever happened to BASS. I suspect their opens will be completely full next yr....Be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Not sure fishing is ever going to be on par with stick and ball sports as this states but if it was we would need some new lakes the water is already plenty crowded.

Looks like they might have already changed the FLW format back to 5 fish all four days.

Which good anglers are left out in the cold?

Martin and Thrift are the main two that come to my mind. I'm sure there are a few more that you could argue as well. I get that they can still fish the FLW, but I don't think either really belong in a minor league tour. Which is exactly what the FLW is now.

It might be the "minor" league tour as some have called it, but it's the same pay out as before

What are the odds it take 300 pounds to win a day?

It is only minor league in your mind.

If they AUTOMATICALLY qualify and move up to the BPT tour then yes it's a minor leage tour now. Just like the top 5 in the Opens AUTOMATICALLY qualify for the Elite series. It doesnt matter what the payout is. If it's not the top of the "pyramid " then its nots the majors. Everyone wants to compare it to all the other sports. Well you can get drafted and be a "pro" but be playing AAA and never make it to the majors.

That's not exactly left out in the cold. I thought you meant np where to fish. These guys fish for a living. Since the payback is the same. I doubt they care if it's called the minors or anything else. And if they fish well enough tthey get to fish BPT in a couple of years. That's not left out in the cold

Bingo... If you have to qualify then you're not at the Top... Sugar coat it anyway you please, it's still the minors... Look at the pyramid they have explained... HS, College, BFL, Costa, FLW Pro Tour and then BPsT... Why doesn't MLFLW/ BTsPlgbtqxyzjust offer a spot to the top 10 FLW AOY standings???... They could probably keep Dudley, Cox, Gross, Martin and Thrift, Lattimer. The way it is now they may lose them to the Elite Tour... Dan

[quote=Dan21XRS
Bingo... If you have to qualify then you're not at the Top... [/quote]

What a ridiculous statement. The Elites have to qualify, is that not the top? Then in the next breath, you state that MLF could"offer spots to top FLW pros"

That's not qualifying, either.

Because the field is set at 80. No reason to change it

No. Even the new owners are calling it a qualifier league. Qualifier league, minor leagues.....use whatever name you like. It's highly competitive and full of some of the top 200 anglers in the world, BUT by the new owners own admission it is not where the cream of the crop are meant to reside. I can't imagine guys that consider themselves top 10 anglers in the world will want to spend any length of time competing there. I can't imagine that their sponsors want them there for very long either.

This guy's sponsors want him there.

http://www.bassfan.com/news_article...nly-small-tweaks-to-routine#.Xa9LsehKiUk

Keep up Fouz. He's talking about the FLW Pro Circuit.

With BASS, you are not required to move to the Elites when you have qualified, some choose to stay in the Opens.
What happens if you qualify to move up a step with FLW but you prefer to stay at the level you are currently fishing? Will they force you to retire or move up?

I'm keeping up perfectly. Whole lotta butt hurt up in here. But at the end of the day, it is what it is, like it or not.

If he doesn't do better than he did this year .......we will likely find out.

What a ridiculous statement. The Elites have to qualify, is that not the top? Then in the next breath, you state that MLF could"offer spots to top FLW pros"

That's not qualifying, either.
[/quote]

Once they qualify for the Elite tour they're set for a few years. They don't make it to the ET then qualify for the Super Elite Tour was all I was pointing out... You can have an off year and you're not automatically sent to the minors... Now on FLW Tour a bad year gonna cost you for another 365 days riding the bus, so to speak... The offer up spot was was to show a few accomplished pros (Martin, Dudley, Thrift) that they belong in the top tier. Show a little respect for what they've accomplished... You know, kinda poach them before the other tour does... Hell Thrift the reigning World Champ of the organization you just bought and you just kick him the the curb???... Dan

They'd better want him there cause he ain't makin' enough for gas... Dan

From Bass Fan...

269 Ish Monroe Hughson CA Ranger/Yamaha $12,000

http://www.bassfan.com/rankings_money.asp

This is what I am curious to see. Thrift and Martin will more than likely be in that top 10. I bet most years they can still make more money fishing the FLW Pro Circuit and paying $40k in entry fees than fishing BPT.

The way they will set it up the top earning potential will be with BPT and the MLF cups no doubt. Unless they just want to stick with the 5 fish format and a lower paying job. They will move up to the BPT in 2022 if given the chance, make no bones about it most of these top level guys are in it for the money (look how many jumped last year), Thrift might just be one of the few that isn't though.

Pretty solid deal for the FLW Pros and their sponsors. If you’re currently sponsoring an FLW angler you just got a significant upgrade in media coverage and you likely won’t have to pay an additional dime for it in 2020.

They both very well may make the move. I just think the way FLW is now they could really rake in checks with the field strength rather than having to compete with a much more skilled field in a format neither of them have participated in yet. I think if you see them heavily participate in the Opens next year then you will know what their intentions are.

Just looked at the dates, be interesting to see how many of them sign up for the central opens no conflicts there, only one date conflict with the eastern opens and its with the AOY event only the top 50 qualify for.

Surprised no one looked at the payouts. Based on 7 events total MLFLW Tour payout is 5,733,000. Total money based on 150 entries for 7 events is 6,000,000. That's a 96% payout. Find another trail anywhere with that kind of payout. Why wouldn't you want to fish that? BASS opens next year are around 71%. Hope MLFLW applies a somewhat similar approach to payouts for the Costas and BFLs.

Good info here. Definitely clears up a lot of the talk

They most certainly will not. Last year the Costa's had a joke of a payout at 69% and I believe the BFL's were even worse than that. Surely they can do better than that this year, but it won't be near 96%.

All Costa and BFL anglers are doing is fishing a charity tournament and supporting the pros.

The payout isnt good.

You would be hard pressed to convince the IRS fishing is a business not a hobby if all you wanted to do was actually fish these events for a living.

The new tax law is not good for tournament fishermen not making a profit. If it is a hobby, you must claim the income but get to deduct none of the expense.

" Due to the suspension of miscellaneous itemized deductions in the years 2018 through 2025, deductions for hobby expenses under Sec. 183 and investment expenses under Sec. 212 are not allowed in those years (Sec. 67(g), as added by the law known as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), P.L. 115-97).

The inability of a taxpayer to deduct even a portion of the hobby expenses while recognizing all the hobby income in adjusted gross income makes establishing a profit motive for a hobby activity even more desirable. The determination of whether an activity is engaged in for profit is based on the facts and circumstances of each case and can be very subjective; however, a statutory safe harbor is provided under Sec. 183(d) that, if met, causes a presumption that the activity is a for-profit endeavor.

To meet the safe harbor, an activity must generate a profit in at least three of five years (two of seven years for activities involving horse racing, breeding, or showing) ending with the tax year in question (Sec. 183(d)). If this safe harbor is met, the burden of proof for lack of profit motive is shifted to the IRS. The IRS can still rebut the profit motive presumption by proving that the activity is not engaged in for profit (e.g., by showing that the profitable years generated immaterial profits while the unprofitable years generated large losses). In most cases, if the safe harbor is met, the IRS will not attempt to rebut the presumption unless there are extenuating circumstances."


It can really get messy real quick if you are taking large losses against your wife's or your other income. I personally know a couple former BASS pros who had their deductions disallowed because they were financing their tournament fishing with the wife's income.

They released the FLW Series Payouts.

They bumped up the payout from 69% (of total entry fees accepted) to a whopping 71% based on 160 boats. 75% based on 260 boats.

The jersey deal is not a good deal for the anglers since this is how they make their money. These things benefit a marginal FLW guy but they do not really benefit a top level guy like the three or four mentioned above (Cox, Thrift, Dudley and Martin.) As pointed out if any of these guys has a bad season, then the odds of being Top 10 over the combined two seasons is not really good, but possible.

I am skeptical about the increased media coverage. If you watched MLF, and I will say I support both and what for 2019 was all three organizations, the reality is was if you caught them you were on camera, or on cut day if you were a bubble boy you were on camera. If you were number 30-40 you did not gain any of this increased exposure that was said to happen. You were treated no different that a guy at a golf tourney, minimal to no screen time. They can make arguments that MLF had all these Discovery Channel hours, and that sounds nice, but other than diehards that will record it, let's just be honest , no one is browsing at 6 am on Discovery Channel and being soaked in to watch fishing.

Now if they so choose to stay and work to get the no entry fee every fish counts, I do think the four will make it. I also think from an MLF perspective, the demotions quite likely may never get back to the big tour. Unless numbers are adjusted, fighting a field of 150 for 10 spots is not easy. If you look at spots 71-80 right now on the BPT, had there been a cut at the end of this season, I can honestly say I think only one of those guys would qualify after a season in the minors to get back up to the big's.

I would also question calling this the strongest five fish field around. You have four guys that are better than most on the big tour but after that, you have good anglers but not nec. great anglers. And there is nothing wrong with that, everyone eventually hits their stride. It sounds good but it is up for debate.

With the complexity of the federal tax code and specifically with respect to the "safe harbor" in this context, are you aware whether or not there are any clawback provisions? I.e. Should your fishing business fail to make a profit in the first three years and be recharacterized as a hobby, can they reach back into the prior tax years requiring amended returns or is it go-forward from year four?

Couple questions, I’ll try my best to not come off as a hater.


Do the FLW anglers themselves get any of the sponsorship money from the sponsors that demand/get the black letter A spots or does mlfflw get all that money? (Same question for BASS, do the anglers receive any compensation from the major BASS sponsors or does just BASS.)


If this new deal is so great, why haven’t the big 3 of FLW committed to it yet? I thought for sure Dudley was going too, but he says he has not decided yet. Randy Blauket (prob misspelt that) said he was gone from the FLW. Many of the anglers are finding something wrong with this deal apparently.

I doubt the anglers see a penny of that money. But FLW has always had jersey rules. I don't think Randy had a choice. He didn't qualify for next year.

For what it is worth, Randy said he declined his invite to the FLW Tour for 2020.
Others must be declining also to make it down to Randy. These others could be 2019 FLW Tour anglers or qualifiers from the Costas.

Or that's just Randy saying he declined when in fact he wasn't invited. You really think he turned down a spot if he was invited. To fish the opens

I believe the black blocks identified by letter A are for the Angler to place sponsor logos. What they get paid is between them and the sponsor. Some gets cash, others will do it for a 5% discount or a pack of worms.
The blocks identified with L & # are for FLW/MLF sponsor logos. Highly unlikely the angler gets direct compensation for the placement of those logos.

I do for a few reasons. Same goes for some others that you will hear about shortly.

What is all this gonna do with Ranger I thought they just extended their deal with Flw year ago or so

Ranger should be good, they are under the WhitewaterMarine umbrella (as are Triton & Nitro). Brands that might get hurt are the other brands, we don’t know yet if they are gonna push anglers to certain brands or not.

I hope they don’t screw the bfl all American winner around by not letting them fish the cup or whatever they r calling it now. I have not seen anywhere yet if all American winner still gets fish year on tour paid for and boat to run either

Roy Hawk, McClelland and Lambert all surprise me being down there, IDK maybe Lambert is more of a 5 bites guy but he sure was doing well on FLW recently.

FW cup no longer exists, all American winner gets a spot in the Costa championship now which purse is 200K, not too shabby.