Cheating

Back in the late 70’s and early 80’s I made a decision to not fish Tournaments. This was because back then, there were a couple of high profile big bass tournaments that cheating was discovered in East Texas. I grew up in Longview and it just soured me on Tournaments. I know they are great trails out there now so this is not bashing any organizations. My question is this, is cheating very prevelant in todays tournament atmosphere? I have always wondered how many times a guy cashes a check, not necessarily wins, by breaking the rules.
Just want to hear some opinions from guys that do fish for the cash.

I’ve not heard of any cheating in the tourneys I fish. And I fish a BUNCH. Big trails, small jackpots, everything inbetween. Sometimes I wish they were cheating, so I’d have an excuse.

I would say no. You don't really see it in todays tournaments. Does it happen??? Prolly sometimes. But I know in the past, most of the guys everyone suspected of cheating. Got caught and no longer fish.

There was a guy in SoCal ( can't remember his name -- this was 4-5 years ago ) that participated in a ton of tourneys over many years . He won or placed well in several of them . The lakes they were fishing had spotted bass mostly --- so really big bass were kinda uncommon . He devised a way to attach a small hook to a banana type weight ( 2 to 3 ounces each ) then would shove the weight down the bass throat and the hook would keep it place . He did this without the Co 's seeing it . The only reason they ended up catching him was because he always had a higher than average mortality vs other fisherman .
The fish that were brought in and had died were being cleaned and donated to local charities . One of the people cleaning these fish found the weights and reported it . The next tourney comes around and they suspected this guy , so when he brought in his fish , they weighed then and immediately cleaned them , ended up finding a weight in every fish .
This guy was well liked and respected , but ended up paying huge fines , no fishing license and no tourneys anymore --- probably lost any friends he had also .
Put a little money in front of some people and they totally change how they act .

Who knows, but I can think of several names from DFW and Central TX with a cloud of suspicion surrounding them that are actively fishing our major trails

And folks keep getting caught

That happened at the US Open 10 or so years ago on Lake Mead. Guy was arrested, charged and never seen or heard from again.

Anyone that cheats will eventually get caught especially with the technology we have today (internet, camera phones, etc...). The bass fishing community does not put up with cheating. These people get put on blast via the internet & social media, word gets around within days and the criminals days of cheating and tournament fishing are done.

RIP Mike Long... but not really

I believe there is some cheating.....I think saying that there isn't is naïve. We all fished against Robby for years and some of us called him a cheater for years....finally caught. We fished against Ryan and called him a cheater for years.....finally caught. There are a handful that I still have some suspicions about but they are pretty selective on what they fish and bounce around a lot.....and eventually they will be caught too.

Kinda why i like to fish draw type tournaments, feel like it is less likely to happen.

People will do anything if money is involved . It’s been proven too many times.
J D

I think there is some level of it to cash checks. Not to win. Not saying it happens often, but does happen especially in deep payout tournaments like champs or TTT

It's been a while since I've competed but I like to think that when I do return to it that I will be competing against good honest guys. I was the next guy that walked off the Stage after Robby weighed his last tournament fish, watched that whole deal first hand. I remember vividly the words "hey this fish can't swim" I was startled turned around and realized my fish was still on the stage and the tank guys were holding Robby's.

I have fished events on Texoma where the infamous R L was surrounded by a cloud of suspicion as well, but after that the thought of " I wonder if there is a cheater here today?" never crosses my mind.

Wrong Mike... the U.S. Open cheater was Mike Hart (but he was probably cut from the same bolt of cloth as Mike Long...)

IF MONEY IS INVOLVED, then some will still cheat. I believe it’s a small fraction of actual bass fisherman though. Tournaments like the Sealy though, where you can fish off the bank and somehow trailer your fish to weigh in, I guarantee some of those bass come out of surrounding stock tanks. No doubt about it... just roll the dice on a poly draw or not. I don’t agree with any tournament allowing fishing off the bank anywhere on the lake.

Am I correct t in saying cheating in fishing tourneys is now a state jail felony? How often have people been caught and end up with a felony on their record forever?

I fish a little Friday night tournament on Lewisville and a few tournaments ago I caught a little bass and as I was swinging it in the boat I caught a glimpse of its tail and it was bleeding. I thought it’s awful late for a bass too have a bloody tail. Then I took it off the hook and held it up and the whole tail had been cut shorter. Which is really weird because Lewisville isn’t a slot lake. But that’s all I can figure is someone cut it for some reason...

You’re right... I use to race motocross and some of those guys would kill you for a $5 plastic trophy, imagine what they will do for real money!!!

With the way social media is today,I feel like there are less people willing to cheat then there was 15-20 years ago. The public shame isn’t worth the risk I would assume. I’m sure there are still some guys out there trying to defraud tournament trails but not many.

That was Mike Hart, probably either him or Tony Chistianson were the highest level tournaments that cheaters were caught in, the Christianson deal FLW sent him packing and totally swept it under the rug out of embarrassment. I think it happens way more at the club, team and big bass tournament level than people want to admit.


100%
I only fish and trust the draw tournament style where they pair random, but won't deny stuff can happen there as well, see the Nate Wellman incident.

Caught more than once, SMH

IDK for sure but look up the kayak cheater guy, I think they wanted an example made out of him so think he got the max penalty they could dish out.

If they cheated back then with smaller pots, you could bet there are people still cheating today for the larger pots. There is no way to truly know how many people cheat. you only know how many people get caught. Then there is also the debate of what constitutes cheating. Do you categorize someone who breaks a rule and knowingly doesn't self report or do you consider cheating to be something that changes the outcome like trimming a tail? These debates have been on here before and what people consider and don't consider cheating go from one extreme to the other

There will always be people breaking the rules in 100% of the tournaments you fish but as far as actual "Cheating" like tying up fish, cutting tails or snagging etc, I think it happens more than anyone on this thread cares to realize. That's just my two cents though.

Nah. I agree on the rule infractions. In that case, I “cheated” last night. I forgot to attach my kill switch bracelet once last night. I still weighed in and won. I don’t think the cheating stuff happens. Not like most think it does. Most of the time, you simply are getting beat may someone that is just better.

In some states it's considered theft by fraud, can be either a misdemeanor or felony depending on the amount of money at stake

Im sure it happens sometimes just not as often as people think.

I ran stats on a couple of guys fishing a weekly grapevine event and found them to be a little hard to believe. I didn't run the stats until after I fished one of the events and while all other boats were sitting right by the ramp....they had their boat power poled down about 100 yards away. Of course that didn't really catch my eye until my tournament partner that saw them parked a ways away wondered why and checked their bunk boards and theirs were completely dry while everyone else's were still wet. You can't launch until a certain time so this seemed odd.....unless they have some kind of fast drying bunk boards.

I sent the stats over the last 8 or so tournaments to the TD and simply said that I found them interesting.....that team didn't show up to the next event....or the next....or the next.

it doesn't happen often but it does happen anytime money of fame is involved cheaters going to cheat most of the time they get away with it because the tournament directors don't want to be that guy who exposes someone because of the drama that ensues afterward .

There is some level of incidental cheating that happens and the contestant may not even know they did wrong.

Perhaps you started your big motor to move away from the rocks and not everyone had a life vest on.
Maybe you do not measure your fish the way the Game Warden does and violations occur.
Your boat gets blown partly into an off limits area and you move quickly out.
Sometimes it might be a rules interpretation verse what the GW or TD interprets.

Best we can do is read the rules and follow them to the best of our ability, report our actions or DQ ourselves when we do wrong and move forward.
Some cheating is blatant with the expectation of creating an advantage, other times the intention may be less nefarious but still a rules violation.

As a tournament director, here is my take on rule infractions versus cheating:

A rule infraction is anything that does not give you an advantage over another angler (not snapping life jacket, forgetting to attach kill switch, empty water bottle flying out of the boat, etc).
Cheating is anything that does give you an advantage (caging fish, meeting a buddy to combine fish, adding weight to a fish, etc).

Before every polygraph, I have a private conversation with the team that is selected to take the polygraph. I ask this exact question - did you do anything today that is going to show deception on the polygraph? If they confess a rule infraction at that point and I feel it is accidental, then we will work with the polygraph examiner to work around the issue. If you do not divulge anything prior to the polygraph and then show signs of deception, then everything is considered cheating to me. You had the opportunity to divulge the "mistake" and you chose to try to get away with it. In my opinion that is now cheating because you tried to get away with a rule infraction.

We also do not simply polygraph the tournament winner. We randomly draw from the top 6 places, but it is weighted towards the top. 1st place gets 6 chips in the bucket, 2nd place gets 5 chips in the bucket, 3rd place gets 4 chips in the bucket, etc. I also do not allow the team to determine who takes the polygraph. We flip a coin to determine which one takes it.

Sadly, the polygraph is our only line of defense against cheating. Otherwise, we rely on other anglers to investigate any suspicious activity during tournament hours to help prevent or deter cheating.

After reading the above, this pretty much clears up any misconceptions that I had about cheating. I hope it did for others as well and then we can let his dead horse rest...again!

I couldn't remember Mike Hart's name and the location of the tourney , but It stuck in my mind the length that some people can go to win some money then justify his actions .
Correct me if I am wrong , but did Mike Hart live in the SoCal area ??

I think some guys cheat to justify the huge expense that being a tournament bass fisherman can cost. Additionally , when someone cheats the first time , they think , OH - OK , nobody caught me , I'll do it again --- then it kinda spirals out of control .

Lastly , this has been discussed many times on this website , but the main reason I don't fish tourneys is because people change their " attitude " on tourney day . Some guys think it's totally OK to cut off other fisherman ( non -tourney guys ) , take over a good spot then say " I am in a tourney " , and justify being rude to other fisherman . It happens all the time , we have all seen it . To me , treating other fisherman with disrespect just because your in a tourney , is really only a small step away from justifying being a cheater .
" always the dollars , always " = Joe Pesci , Good Fellas

This is how it should be done.

I like first place poly and the random for another who got paid.

At $300 a pop, it gets expensive.

He fished lots of WON bass tournaments there so assume he lived there too, he won lots of team tournies with Bill Siemantel, so when Hart got caught lots of suspicion came on the big bass guy. I think Bill was cleared but it made me think of him when Mike Long got exposed plus they kinda look similiar.

It's just money lol

Seriously though....I'd happily pay a little more knowing everything was done to keep things legit as possible

http://www.wonews.com/t-WONBASS-cheater-7-21-10.aspx

Here is the story on Mike Hart. He was from Winnetka, a suburb of Los Angeles

I can guarantee you just like in racing there are more cheaters deep in the results than in the top 3-4 on a regular basis.

It still happens but not as much since it’s so easy to get the word out about cheaters. No longer can you pack up and move one state or city over and be forgotten.

But there is a something else that makes tournament fishing even less enjoyable than cheaters. It’s all the “pro’s” you have on the water now. Everyone thinks they are the next to be called up to the Big Leagues. Fake sponsors on their shirts and boats. And not a ounce of etiquette or sportsmanship.

As one college kid told me, it’s called “Aggressive Fishing” as he proceeded to pull onto the same brush pile as me and launch lures at my boat. I couldn’t help but laugh because they were serious and felt completely within the bounds of normalcy.

It happens. A few years ago was fishing a Media Fork division when the winners were asked to come take their poly they jumped in their boat and drove off. So second place won!

Cast over their lines with 80lb power pro. Call it aggressive bait snatching. Lol

Polygraphs can be wrong some people are just nervous . Isn’t that why their not admissible in court?
I know people cheat but just because you can’t pass a polygraph at a fishing tournament does not make you a cheat.
Gotta have more evidence than that.
J D

several years ago was fishing a buddy tourney on Lake Martin (al.)and got my boat stuck on a mud bar in back of a creek...my partner weighs at least 300 lbs and we couldn't get the boat to move...finally,I cranked up the big engine,trimmed it up and left it in gear while I jumped on the front and turned trolling motor wide open while my partner pushed with a paddle....finally the boat broke loose and we got off the mud bar but I realized I didn't have my life jacket on...
we won the tourney and I had to take a polygraph test....I told the polygraph operator about not having my life jacket while freeing the boat and told him that I didn't know whether I broke a rule or not....the operator said he didn't
t know if I had broke a rule or not but he would have to report it to the tournament director....he prefaced every question with "other than not having your life jacket on when freeing your boat" did you cheat,catch your fish legally etc...I was able to answer each question truthfully and pass the polygraph test....I've taken several polygraphs over the years and I don't believe I could have passed that test or any other test if I was hiding something or not being truthful...
incidentally,in that tournament,the director ruled that I had not broken any rule since their rules stated a life jacket must be worn when boat is up on plane...

Of course you're nervous. My first one I bet my heart rate was well over 100. But he said that's normal....he's looking for inconsistencies after you answer specific questions. All questions are asked before you are ever hooked up to anything. That way there are no surprises. You can go over any questions you might be unsure about. If you fail a poly from a good examiner, you're hiding something

Ok guess that’s a good answer did not know that

Ditto!

Does anyone remember the man accused of cheating in the 70’s from the Arlington area? His first name was Danny and later on committed suicide.

some of the trails in my area have done something that seems to work in keeping the cheaters from entering....they would advertise that the winner and someone chosen at random in the top may be required to pass a polygraph test....then 2-3 times during the year,have the polygraph operator show up and give tests to winner and someone in top 10...
less expensive than giving a test at every tourney and the possibility of having to take a polygraph keeps most of the cheaters away....plus....if there is suspicion of cheating,the tournament director could require the person under suspicion to pass a polygraph test before awarding them the prize money..

https://grantland.com/features/bass-fishing-cheaters/

Robby Rose passed many a poly

apparently there is a small percentage of people who can lie and fool the machine...we had couple guys in our area that were doing it until we had a boat follow them then they somehow lost their ability "to find a winning bag of fish".....as mentioned there are people who can beat the machine but it seems to keep almost all of the cheaters from entering...

I had to take a Poly for a job one time . I was much younger , and it made me really anxious . Not because I needed to hide anything , just because I had never done it .
The examiner , asked me to take off my shoes just before I got wired up . He examined the shoes ( which I thought was kinda strange ) , then put them aside and started the questions . I answered all the questions without issue . When he said that he was sure I had passed , I asked him why I had to take off my shoes . He said that people who are hiding issues , and need to pass , put thumb tacks in their shoes and randomly "poke" a toe on the thumb tack to create a false reading and make the results seem confusing .

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/parks-and-wildlife-code/parks-wild-sect-66-023.html

Sadly, I can't name a single professional sport or highly competitive amateur competition where there isn't cheating for the sake of advantage. Not sure why fishing for money would be any different.

I played soccer overseas in Germany and I never cheated.. I did try and take every advantage I could...Now with fishing I am not good enough to fish with the big boys... I would suck at cheating.. That is why I don't play cards for money...My son fished wwith me in most tournaments so setting good example is key for me... I know a lot of fisherman and really good fisherman and I know they don't cheat and are very competitive. They win a lot more than me..

+1