Spraying Grass at Fork today

I saw several airboats spraying grass up in birch today. Company was Lochsaw Ranch. Don’t know what chemical they were spraying but it grass up all around the banks. Also saw a city of Dallas truck talking to the guys before they headed out. Hope they were doing something benificial to the lake...

They were, just probably not beneficial to the fishermen.

Be great to get a listing of all areas sprayed. This really sucks.

I would think any spraying would be contracted thru tpw or SRA. Not sure why they'd be spraying hydrilla? Is that a known salvinia area?

Hopefully it wasn't the same idiots that sprayed on Toledo. While they did spray some infested salvinia areas, they also decided it would be a good idea to also spray all the main lake haygrass in well known areas.

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

There’s no Salvinia there. I watched them for a while, even took some video and pics. Can’t get the pics to load up from my iPhone. They were spraying tall leafy grass growing from the edge. Also sprayed everything to the back of that pocket. Then they went past 2946 bridge and kept going north.

They ran most of the fish out of Chaney branch when they sprayed it.

this really sucks... unfortunately city of dallas owns the water rights... so they stop the dairy farmers from draining into the lake with organic waste,... but load up on the grass killer chemicals... wonderful...

Great, I planned on making a trip out there for a couple of nights of fishing but may change my mind until it settles down some.

Hopefully some of the lake fork guys can enlightened us on this a little more. I am sure someone reading this knows whats going on but whether or not they will share it with us is another story. Heard Mark Stevinson brought grass spraying up on fishing show last weekend but details were vague. Something is up.

That sucks to hear. Dont know why they spray anything. Nature will take care of itself.

Been happening for years. There are those that will say it’s all fake news and the drought and high water is the culprit. They were probably spraying hyacinth but when they do it zaps pretty much everything. Also seems the spraying starts everytime hydrilla starts to reappear. Lots of hydrilla in some places but probably not for long.

Gotta love Politics

http://www.lochowranch.com/about/our-team/

Inland Fisheries contracts for invasive plant management on Fork every year. The guys they hired last year did a poor job and were late getting there. It didn't sit well with anglers or TPWD. That group likely won't be coming back. Looks like an experienced new crew was hired this year. Some management is necessary, but hopefully they were a little more gun shy with the weedkiller this year.

A guy in White Oak Shores talked to them when they were in White Oak looking. Didn't find any salvina said boom would be left till after winter.

Here is a short video I took of them. I uploaded it to YouTube so I could share. This is a very small clip of what they were doing all the way down the shore.
https://youtu.be/Ulj3W_m-52I

Maybe they are spraying a liquid fertilizer.

Short video, but looks like they are focused on the hyacinth... the last time they sprayed that on Fork it didn’t harm the coontail, elodea, and pondweed too much.

I think that leafy shoreline stuff is actually invasive. Not sure what it's hurting though, especially in the back of Birch. Takes a dang tank to get back there in the first place. Maybe they'll spray all of that and burn through their yearly contract budget before they find any of the good milfoil/hydrilla beds.

The instant salvina is found everything else takes a back seat. So in a weird way it can kinda help protect the other grass. Their gonna dump x amount of poison every year. Might as well go on stuff not beneficial to fishing or less beneficial shoreline stuff.

You could be and I hope you are right, but I didn’t see them “selectively spraying”. They started on one side of that pocket, went all the way to the back, and out the other side, spraying everything at the bank. Then they crossed 2946 and headed towards double branch and did the same thing. But they are the experts and I’m not.

I am familiar with the Lochow Ranch group, they are an upstanding group. From my limited knowledge, the main bulk of there business is maintaining private bass fisheries here in Texas; however, they are licensed by the state to apply aquatic herbicides. An event such as this would have been OK'd by the state, Lochow has no interest in spraying chemicals in 100 deg. weather in July, other than to make money.

It appears that that they are spraying for "emergent" plants (Cattails, lily pads, hyacinth etc.) rather than "submerged" plants (hydrilla, coontail etc.). The product they are most likely using is an aquatic herbicide called Rodeo; the main active ingredient is glyphosate.

Last time was in that pocket a few weeks ago there was no hyacinth......could have blown in perhaps. Was some submergent vegetation and alligator grass. Good to see proof of the black helicopters. . Don’t get the need to dump poison in the lake in areas without savinia. Those that say it doesn’t kill or affect the submergent “too bad”.......everytime they spray it’s gone in a couple of weeks and takes years to return. Don’t get the need to spray and really don’t like chemicals introduced to the environment unless absolutely required.

Let’s hope they aren’t spraying glyphosate, although I’d bet it is. For people who don’t know, the more common brand name for glyphosate is Roundup. The company that makes glyphosate is Monsanto. Monsanto is currently on trial for glyphosate causing cancer... and we’re putting it into our water supply.

I don't see it being a big deal. They have been spraying Fork for many years and the lake is still producing quiet well. Some of you guys need to reach way up your crack and pull your panties out. It's all going to be alright.

I don’t think being concerned about the care of our public waters means we are wearing panties. I only question if there isn’t an invasive species taking over, why spend the public’s resources?

They sprayed Rayburn up north for hyacinth this year. Not a big deal and I'd rather them spray it when it's low density rather than wait unitl its infested and they have to spray a ton

I believe care of our public waters is why they are spraying to begin with.... if you wait until it reaches taking over stage its to late. Lets not forget folks, they are targeting an INVASIVE SPECIES not just spraying to spray. I'm a shallow water grass fishing kind of guy, but anytime I feel the need to question the spraying of invasives I think back to when they waited to long on Toledo Bend after flood waters pushed in a bunch of Hyacinth and Salvinia in 2009-2010. Entire creeks looked like dry land. Massive amounts of chemicals were sprayed via air boat and helicopter for weeks that hardly put a dent in it. It was awful... TPWD will never let that happen to Fork.

I sure wish that “invasive” hydrilla would occupy every square inch of water under 15ft.

Never gonna happen again with all this spraying.

Cole, why would any lily pads or cattails be on there list ? I seriously doubt that pads and or cattails are on there hit list, but I'm sure it's collateral damage. If that's the case go look at Purtis Creek and see how that works out. I agree in controlling it before it's gets to bad like toledo bend but I'm sure the spraying contracts don't allow for careful and time consuming specific spraying. You get what you pay for. Your right about the 100 degree whether and spraying, Rodeo is more effective in hotter temperatures. They can blanket area's and it more cost effective.

The spraying has been blamed on the SRA, TPWD, the city of Dallas, homeowners and black helicopters. I've never understood what any of these have to gain from spraying hydrilla.

They must have had one of those meetings again before these secret spraying of DDT

Somebody sprayed something in 99 because it killed grass out to 20’ over the Whole lake. Then they started floating.

My opinion, they use Fork as a "test" site for spraying. Fork grows numerous types of emergent and submergent vegetation consistently. It is close to TPWD headquarters and is a big enough water body that controlled spray sites will not affect the entire lake. Test their chemicals there, document results, apply to other bodies of water as they see fit.

I was over in that area on Monday.

maybe if anyone knows someone at SRA, TPWD, or whatever, maybe they could be persuaded to come on this forum and provide a brief explanation about the spraying.

might have a real good reason for doing it? i don't know enough to make an educated comment. i do like the good weeds....

Saw the air boats by the west side of the 515 bridge on Thursday. Not sure if they were spraying or not. I was on the other side of the lake.

Exactly. Isn't it quite the coincidence that LMB virus hit at the same time all the grass died.

Remember it well. Happened seemingly overnight.

Same thing happened on Rayburn. Same time the paper mill was allowed to increase dumping of heavy metals and no telling what else into the river upstream. Best thing that ever happened to Rayburn was the mill shutting down in the early 2000's

This is true, hated to see the mill close from an economic stand point but it without question improved Rayburn.

follow the money.....I've been told this is how it works..who benefits from spraying the most....the chemical companies....how does a chemical company promote the sales of their product....they make political contributions to legislators and encourage them to spray invasive species of weeds in our reservoirs....

Yep. Or they know somebody that owns the spraying company so they "help" them out

Maybe this gentleman can shed some light on the spraying, if anyone knows how to contact him:

John Findeisen, team leader of the TPWD Inland Fisheries Division’s Aquatic Habitat Enhancement team

He was on the Open Freshwater Discussion forum explaining the floating boom on Athens a few months ago

Lake Fork has never recovered from it either. Those that fished Fork before the spraying began know what I mean. I realize all lakes lose some of their productivity as they age, but this was a significant and major change from which it never recovered.

I've watched them spray and they aren't selective.

Contact this TPWD biologist. He oversees Lake Fork. He will know what is going on and/or he can put you in contact with John Fendeisen.

Kevin Storey
District Supervisor
2122 Old Henderson Hwy.
Tyler, Texas 75702
(903) 593-5077
kevin.storey@tpwd.texas.gov
http://www.facebook.com/InlandFisheriesTylerNorthDistrict

I’m not sure why or where they are spraying, the hydrilla I found in the early spring was completely gone when I went to fish it at night a few weeks ago. These were large areas in 6 feet of water. Gone except for shoreline growth that is a foot deep.

Did I miss a flood? That what TPWD usually claims when hydrilla is killed.

they have killed the fishing at every lake they have ever sprayed....Eufaula,chickamauga,guntersville,conroe,harris chain,santee-cooper and others I can't recall.......hydrilla provides cover for the fish population in our aging reservoirs and enables fish to thrive on what would otherwise be barren mud flats....
why can't our fishery biologists see the benefit of hydrilla?....none of us have any problem with them spraying around boat docks but to spray randomly and dump grass carp in the lake is no different that letting someone cut all the trees down in a national forest...we would never allow that to be done because of the devastating effect on wildlife...so what's the difference....I'm pretty sure it's chemical companies lobbying influence/campaign contributions....

This is a pretty interesting video about Big O in FL about the grass spraying and problems down there.

https://youtu.be/_vWPVUjzBaI

Here is a currently approved (by TPWD)list of treatments for aquatic invasives in Texas. All waterbodies, target species, dates, acreage and means (chemical, biological, mechanical).

I can't speak to the past, but very limited hydrilla is being targeted today. The chemicals they're spraying on Fork right now should not kill any hydrilla. Also, LMBV is present in over 20 Texas lakes and several hatcheries. But it has only caused fish kills in 5 of those lakes. I can't find this data for 1998-2002 when the LMBV reared it's ugly head. However, I believe drought and low dissolved oxygen levels had a lot more to do with the loss of hydrilla in 1998-1999 than did spraying. Those were two of the hottest years in Texas modern history. The winters were also brutal. I may be wrong. I'm getting older and memory ain't what it used to be. I'll take targeted spraying over grass carp any day.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/environconcerns/nuisance_plants/treat_proposals.phtml

Grass died in April/May the year of the fish kill on Fork was there every week....started seeing it die in birch in late March by June it was mostly gone or looked really bad on the dale ridge and around little caney. Reports back then of grass being sprayed but never confirmed. But lots of rumors and talk of spraying at night. Back then the grass grew out to 20 fow at the mouth of little caney. So a 5 foot drop in water level shouldn’t have killed all of it due to drought. However I can see spraying the mass amounts in the shallows and it dying causing the dissolved oxygen to lower and having secondary results. Perhaps just a normal cycle of nature and the perfect storm/timing at the end of the spawn. Don’t forget the massive push to rid the state of hydrilla back then.....just sayin. They say what they spray on the hyacinth doesn’t kill other submergent except we see otherwise in the real world on the water after they spray.

I was there then, too. Just can't recall but I believe the winter of 1998-1999 was brutally cold in NE Texas. Grass started dying off after that. And August of 1999 was one of the hottest on record. Fish didn't start dying off until summer, right? Never did see any of the spraying at the time, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen on a large scale.

Lakes in other southern/southeastern states were also affected by the LMBV. It was a widespread issue, and not all affected lakes were “spraying”. Coincidnce or imperfect memory fuels a cycle of confirmation bias.

I wasn’t there, but I have read articles from a few states about it, it seemed to follow the weather patterns Fouz identifies.

Was up in Birch yesterday and it didn't look good. What little hydrilla was there was dead. I was pulling globs of it up with my lure. A lot of the banks vegetation were wilted and turning brown(see picture). I haven't been back there since last year but it was loaded with healthy hydrilla.

The kill started in June. It may have been a cold winter but winters before that one were colder. Like freeze the north end of Ray Hubbard solid cold and giant ice balls on trees at Fork cold. The grass was growing and beautiful just like always until mid March that year. Then it turned black and started dying. By mid May it was covered black algae and you couldn’t find green grass anywhere or fish in “typical” areas. Fishing was tough for most and reports were early post spawn go offshore for suspended fish. I recall seeing lots of floaters, more than normal, in late April and early May but initially wrote it off to the crowds, live bait guys, or other. Fishing was tough that spring as I recall. Evethough it is fishing great now it still is nothing like the years just before that year. Miss those griant schools of giant fall bass tearing up the back of the creeks and big mustang......still don’t get the need to spray the areas shown in the pics on this thread.....

I read those articles too. They don’t align with Fork kill. Kill started in June. It was a drier year that year but no where close to recent times, lake was almost full at the time of the kill, and it wasn’t in the 100s for temps yet. Curiously the year of the kill on Rayburn, the year before fork, the grass also died and then the fish kill occurred. Can’t speak about other lakes. It is a known fact that during that period a major push was being made to rid the state of invasive grass such as hydrilla. Jerry Dean wrote abote it in Honey Hole and was pushing for nonchemical methods such as that big mechanical harvester he had on one of his shows. I will always believe a little more than coincidence or bad memory........although mine seems to be fading a bit.

Rog, has anyone ever documented spraying at Fork during that time? I can't find TPWD records that far back. Maybe Mr. Allen from the Lake Fork Sportsman's Association will know. I do know the grass died and then the bass died. Still wondering what killed the grass. A large-scale die off of vegetation can certainly lead to lower dissolved oxygen levels. Especially in the hotter months of summer. That's why chemical treatments are typically confined to smaller areas and spread out across a lake.

The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department in conjunction with the Sabine River Authority have begun herbicide treatments of water hyacinth on Lake Fork through a private contractor. This is a different contractor than last year and we have a high level of confidence in their abilities. TPWD conducted a survey on June 12, 2018 and estimated the water hyacinth coverage to be approximately 150 acres for the entire reservoir, with much of the water hyacinth near the shorelines and mixed with other, shoreline-emergent vegetation. A vegetation treatment proposal was submitted immediately following the survey and contracted herbicide treatments began last week. These treatments will be conducted every other week until the end of August.

Water hyacinth is highly susceptible to 2,4-D; thus the primary reason for using this herbicide at Lake Fork. Additionally, 2,4-D has little to no effect on hydrilla, due to active ingredient and application method (a foliar spray above the water’s surface). There is going to be some collateral damage to non-target vegetation (American lotus for example) that is mixed with the water hyacinth but will be minimized to the treatment areas. The plan is to eliminate as much of the water hyacinth as possible with the first treatment, then follow-up with routine treatments every two weeks. These follow-up treatments should always treat less plants than the previous treatment. We have had good success following this type of plan on water hyacinth at other lakes (Lake Corpus Christi, Choke Canyon Reservoir, Sheldon Reservoir).

Water hyacinth, like giant salvinia, can cover entire coves, shading out all submersed vegetation, creating low oxygen areas, and prohibiting angler access. Many of you may remember how thick the water hyacinth was last year in the upper ends of Birch and Running creeks. The negative effects of these large water hyacinth mats far outweigh the any impacts to non-target, emergent plants from the herbicide treatments. Our goal is to gain control of the water hyacinth, eventually minimizing the amount of herbicide used in the future to maintain control.

TPWD surveyed the White Oak Creek section of Lake Fork and did not find any giant salvinia both inside and outside of the boom. However, there was quite a bit of other vegetation in those areas, making spotting individual giant salvinia plants difficult. We will continue to monitor the giant salvinia situation. I realize the boom is an inconvenience, but it is necessary for containment until we know for sure the giant salvinia has been eradicated, again. Unfortunately, we will not know for sure until the other vegetation goes dormant in the late fall/early winter. It was this same time of year that the giant salvinia was discovered in Chaney Branch and White Oak Creek. We are purchasing some smaller boom material that should be easier to cross over.

While we regret any inconvenience the boom or herbicide treatments may create, we believe it necessary to address a potentially severe problem for boaters and anglers. Please understand we are working to rapidly gain control of both giant salvinia and water hyacinth while we have the opportunity. If you have any further questions, please contact me via email (John.Findeisen@tpwd.texas.gov) or phone (409-698-9121 ext 235). Please note I will be away from the office this week and next but will check email as internet connections allow.

John Findeisen
Aquatic Invasive Species Biologist
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
Inland Fisheries – Aquatic Habitat Enhancement
900 CR 218
Brookeland, TX 75931
Phone: 409.698.9121 ext 235 (AHE – Brookeland)
John.Findeisen@tpwd.texas.gov

Thank you, sir.

thanks for letting us know what is going on.

Thank you Mr. Findeisen!

Remember this?

Where the heck is that ?

Fishing paradise

Is that the north end of Little Caney ? I don’t recognize any landmarks.

Birch 2009, just north of the power lines looking north. Brier and Lynn just up to the left. Not my picture, got this from TPWD.

Amen and she’s all dead now. So sad

Correct me if I’m wrong but hyacinth doesn’t have a root system? I recall seeing it in different places dependant on the direction of the wind literally on a day to day basis.

Fouz.... does dying and decaying grasses/plants consume oxygen? Hmmmmmmm.....

Yessir. But don't take my word for it.

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/kits/estuaries/media/supp_estuar10d_disolvedox.html

That was one of them there retorical questions boss

The massive destruction of plant life exaserbated/caused the fish kill blaimed on a spontaneous outbreak of LMBV

I'm a dummy some days!

Maybe all the invasive plants will we sucked down the sink hole in the back of Williams Creek. Just say'n.

Thank you for the update / detailed explanation.

Putting 2,4 D into a lake that supplies drinking water. Wow!

They spayed Glade last year, and there a ton of grass where they sprayed. They know what they are spraying that's still good for habitat. Land owners that spray their own stuff is a different story!

Doc, everything I have read said 2,4D's half life in water is less than 24 hours. And the concentration being used would not pose a problem for drinking water unless they sprayed a lot more acreage than they are.?

Depending on the chemical makeup, some forms have a half life of 180 days in aquatic sediment.

Yes, Glade got hit last year. Turned trees brown on the shoreline. It hurt what we were fishing at the time. A few years back the spraying killed what milfoil was
left in the lake. I haven’t found any in over 5 years.