Balog on the Lambert/Haynes Kentucky Lake Situation

http://www.bassfan.com/opinion_article.asp?ID=1499#.WwbDV0gvyUk

I don't think I would have quit, but I can certainly understand Hayne's feelings.

Lambert be like:

Anglers? Sportsmen? I don't think so.

What sportsman avoids hates competition?

Typical redneck, nouveau primadonnas. They've heard all their lives that it's "rude" to fish in another man's spot. Paleeez!

If you can't run with the big dogs....

I dont know the full situation here as that article was difficult to follow since I dont watch the sport or follow the Pro's, but I do wonder if most people feel the game starts at first cast or at boat launch? I am not saying that I would ever go to another guys spot that was obviously winning, but this one seems like it was both of their spot and it was a race to get there first.

I have always felt the game started at launch, it is the reason boat number matters and faster boats keep being built.

And just to be clear, I think it would be wrong if one angler watched another on day 1 and then beat him to his spot on day 2. But if it was just a race to the spot both had found on their own, then I dont see an issue with what Lambert did. Its just a "he said she said" at this point and I have no idea who is the "He" and who is the "She" on this one.

Haynes is the DOG pretty sure he got tired of fighting over spots considering he probably gets hole jumped/followed and cut off every day on the TVA lakes that he has dominated on for 20 years.

"But Haynes' decision to pull out – whether justified or not – made the real statement of the tournament. I’d guess this type of run-in is happening more and more and anglers like Haynes, who still feel the unwritten code should be honored, are becoming a thing of the past. As the sport transforms, the gentleman’s agreements are no longer valid and bass fishing, like so much of our society, becomes a game of push and shove, me first, and the heck with everyone else."

Maybe the most important paragraph in the article, and its a damn shame.

^^^^^ THIS

It’s called etiquette. This scenario was unique and I think they could’ve shared (in this specific scenario) but you sound like you’re promoting running a bent pole pattern. If you can’t find them on your own don’t tread on the guy who did.

This... people just don't get the amount of guys following him in every event including practice days. It wasn't always like this. He did his homework and he frustrated at the how the game is more about getting info from others now.

Amen!

+100

Can't understand why he would quit, especially being at the top of the leaderboard. Call the guy an MF'er and then go to another hole and dig up some fish. Sound like Lambert didn't go there on Friday, but did again on Sat and maybe Haynes was there Friday and since he didn't see him there he felt he was infringing on his spot on Saturday. I get it, you're mad, but best way to stick it to the guy is go somewhere else and filly your bag.

Quitting and just wasting 4500 dollars and whatever was spent on travel accommodations is just ridiculous.

He still got 12th. Lol.

I guess they did not discuss it with each other and probably didn't know they were both fishing the same spot. One guy was there in the morning the other was there in the afternoon so they never saw each other. Haynes IMO just got redneck mad at someone fishing "HIS" spot. Kinda dumb IMO with that much on the line.

Snowflake Haynes, “He’s in my spot, I’m gonna take my lead and go home!”
On!

But, IF the long time "etiquette", gentlemens agreement, long time custom was followed (& I think that was the point Haynes was trying to make) had been followed, it would have been Haynes fishing it & Lambert could have went to find "other " fish. Haynes was the tournament "leader" on THAT day. Neither of them are bent pole pattern fishermen. I believe the etiquette, long time gentlemens agreement , tradition is NOW a thing of the past. This incident PROVES it to me. Money & the "Me,me,me!" Attitude has replaced long standing courtesy & traditions from the bottom all the way to the top level.

You're missing the point. It wasn't just this instance. Haynes has been followed around for the last 10 years on Kentucky, if not longer. How would you feel if every time you graphed for hours on end to find a winning school and then some guy just rides by, marks a waypoint, and then sits there every tournament using fish you found against you. Every time you hit the water, for 10 years. [censored] gets old real quick. Every time you fish, you end up having to find different ledges because anything you fished in the past becomes a community hole.

You can definitely see the difference of opinion from those that know how to ledge fish and find offshore structure vs. those that don't. It amplifies it when a $4,500 entry fee is on the line. Amplifies it even more when you are leading a $100,000.00 tournament.

He finally got sick of it and said screw it... and I don't blame him. Sure, he could've left and I'm sure caught 18-20 lbs elsewhere, but that wouldn't have gotten it done. He knew that. That ledge held the size of fish needed to win and he knew it (that's why he stayed on it for 3 days).

EXACTLY!!!!

He doesn't need the money to survive and he probably felt he did not want to be a part of anything where the integrity is questionable anymore. I do not think him leaving was just for one tournament...

You have to look no further than the Sabine River in 2013 when Alton Jones was at bottom end of the final 12 going into the last day and Rojas was at the top end of the field and Jones chose to go into the area he knew Rojas was fishing.

That was a true show of not much integrity on Jones' part...

So Haynes pulled up to the spot AFTER Lambert, Lambert told Haynes to go ahead up pull up beside him and fish there, then Haynes threw a fit about it and quit??

Yep

You want to see a true show of lack of integrity? Alton, who was nowhere near contention to win the 2009 Classic on the Red River, went into KJ's backwater pond on the final day, where KJ had caught 20 lbs the previous day. EVERYONE knew exactly where Kelly was fishing since it was just across from the launch and it was plastered all over B.A.S.S. the day before. Kelly ran around and caught a small limit of about 10 pounds, then headed to the pond once it warmed up a bit. As Kelly was going in, Alton was coming out. KJ asked "what do you have?" to which Alton replied "about 20 lbs". The little area was only big enough for one boat so, fishing behind Alton was fruitless as he had already milked it for what was there. Had KJ had unfettered access to the spot he had fished ALL WEEK and Alton had not, Kelly would have caught another 20 lbs and won that Classic by more than 4 lbs over Skeet. I know there are lots of AJ lovers out there, but I'm not one of them!

Jones needs to find himself a Bible verse about potlicking

Yep a lot of people don't see it but he's known for pulling stunts like that on tour. There's a reason you see a lot of pro's enjoying each other's company on social Media but big Alton and Alton JR are often-times at a table by themselves.

I don't see anything positive from a business point of view for the actions of Haynes, surely his "no comment," will not be the answer he gives once the brands and logos start calling him.

From what I understand he owns a successful business. He probably doesn't give two [censored] about what the "brands and logos" say. There is a reason he fishes out of an unwrapped boat.

The tour is a business/competition. Most people do it for a living, obviously Haynes doesn’t but most do. Tradition or gentleman’s agreement or not, I don’t agree with not giving it a full send on day 3 because you aren’t in the lead. That’s a sure fire way to lose. I’d be different if you were mathematically eliminated from the win, but Lambert wasn’t... Look at the difference in checks for first and second place.

Here you go

thats called class... I agree with him 100 percent.

How long have you been following fishing? Most of your "big dogs" on ledges learned from Haynes either because he taught them directly or they followed him around like everyone else does any time he launches on a TVA lake. You don't have to like him or the decision, but what a silly statement about the best ledge fisherman on either tour.

I bet his family is plenty proud of him, I know I am. Integrity, ethics and honesty will make me a fan no matter what sport you're in. Would I have done something different ? Maybe, maybe not but I feel we all have been in a situation where the conflict just wasn't worth the hassle or the hassle just wasn't worth the conflict. Kinda like being cut off on the highway. Sometimes you just let it go.

....There are 3 ways to deal with any issue:
1.) stay and confront it
2.) stay and don't confront it
3.) don't stay -- leave
.... the action that one chooses is based on their upbringing and their mental state at that time
.... the results of those actions are what you live with in the immediate and in the future
.... your decision not only affects you, but the world around you
How many times do we say; if I only knew, wish I could go back and have a mulligan / do over or maybe the other path was better

whether he shouldn't have quit the tournament or not I truly believe for himself and "his world" he made the right choice. He might regret not to continue fishing --- but he certainly doesn't have to ponder the other fork in the road, he chose the right one ..... IMHO.

You seem to be the exact type he is making a stand against. Good luck with that.

X-1

I also like the Quote of the day!

While I agree with Randy that there seems to be a deterioration within bass fishing while the flat-bill tubers generation begins to come about and start to take a stronger hold on our sport (God please help us all!!). I have to ask, Is this reply aimed at Jason? From everything I heard they are friends, maybe not close, but friends, and Jason is a hand on TVA lakes, does his own work and doesn't do the bent-pole pattern like flat-bill tubers do. I applaud Randy for making these statements, but he still seems to "point the finger" at Jason to say you were wrong. I don't see it that way. I think Jason had a right to that water and the water could have been shared by both anglers and the spirit of competition could have been honored. Just MHO, it's probably wrong, but how I feel. Jason seemed to handle the situation with class and grace. Randy did not. Again, just MHO, that a quarter doesn't even get you a cup of coffee now days.

Good on Mr Haynes. Well thought out and classy

Certainly no snowflake, nothing but respect for that man.

A snowflake would have stayed, complained, and tried to get the other guy to leave.

"Hey, thanks for this - this showed my kid...." Nothing about not quitting and fighting through adversity? What a load BS.

He quit. Plain and simple. I was always taught not to. If he had just left the spot and went elsewhere, while leading...., he may have still won the thing.

Which is exactly what he said...

You forgot to add the full situation. Lambert fished it on day 1. Haynes on day 2. Neither knew the other had fished it previously. Day 3, Haynes leading the tournament. Lambert arrived on it mere seconds before Haynes(Boats 1 &2 at takeoff, Lambert boat just a little faster,both Rangers, but that's a joke in itself as far as "fast & ,faster boats". At this point, Haynes was relying on the LONG STANDING GENTLEMENS AGREEMENT, that has always been the etiquette followed at top level ranks for years. Leader gets the spot. Lambert didn't do that, As in Jones not honoring leader on the other tournament , therefore sending the message that etiquette & honor of longstanding behavior is no more, and I like Alton too. But that STILL shocked me.Haynes was trying to make a point. That money & attitude is more important now, even at the Top level. Yes its been done more & more lately, so yes, traditions don't matter anymore. He made a decision to prove the point. And he did!! Its just missed by those that agree with that type behavior. Haynes COULD have fished elsewhere & caught fish. So could Lambert. They're both hammers on that lake. I myself, agree with Haynes point. Comments of "Im teaching my kid to hang tough & stay in there are forgetting (in my opinion) to ALSO teach them to HONOR long standing traditions that the sport was built on. If you fail to teach honoring customary etiquette,you're doing a great disservice to yourself, your child, & the sport. Just my opinion. These ALL started as traditions. Professional Driver Drag racing in NHRA on tour. Does leader get Lane choice ? Yes. Tradition became rule. Professional Rodeo Cowboy on tour.Does leader get to draw his stock first? Yes. Tradition. Part of a long standing tradition, that became rule. Times change,rules should also, to accommodate the sport.but, should tradition be thrown out in making a new rule? Individual opinion varies & looks like tradition is losing.. Even at top levels.

And Lambert could have done the same AND also honored the long standing etiquette of Leader gets first choice. Lambert may ALSO have found enough to win.

AJ sucks flat sucks not a fan zero class

No kidding lol

I think it all revolves around what the anglers actually knew.

Haynes had no idea Lambert caught fish there.

What he knew was that he caught fish there back to back days. He also knew that Lambert was aware he was fishing there on Day 2. I understand the man's frustration.

In the end, I don't necessarily think Lambert did anything wrong because he was on those fish day 1, but Haynes did not know that.

Instead of confronting the guy, he left. It certainly could have been handled in a worse manner.

I think he is a class act for sure.

Wrong. Lambert fished it on the morning of Day 1. Lambert drove by it on Day 2, saw Haynes on it so he did not fish it. Knowing that Haynes was the leader and had fished there all day on Day 2, even though Lambert beat Haynes to it by mere seconds on Day 3, the sportsmanlike thing to do would have been to let THE LEADER fish where he wanted to. Without interference.

I have no clue what's right or wrong here, and my opinion doesn't matter, but one of the things that strikes me as odd is 2 TVA hammers can only find 1 spot? Just doesn't seem to make sense. I know it's the principle, but it still doesn't make sense that neither had any other water to sack 20-25 lb.'s?

I understand that Haynes was upset and his response was well worded and explained. Bottom line is he quit, kind of acting like a baby. His behavior matches the behavior we are seeing today. Instead of improvising, dealing with the adversity, he quit and went home. Much like our spoiled generation, don't like something, protest, hold a march, call the other guy a racist or bigot. Life does not go according to plan, and you have to figure a way around it. That is the message he could have sent to the young kids watching. Instead, he sent the message, don't like something, get mad and just quit. To me that is pathetic.

I think perhaps the difference in what Chris is saying and what you are saying is Chris still believes in the integrity to let the leader have his water he fished to have the lead after 2 days. And you are saying Lambert has the "right" to fish where he knew Haynes caught his fish.

It comes down to one opinion being an overly respectful opinion and the other being a kind of "I have as much right as the next guy" opinion.

If you have to be convinced the first is "the right thing to do", then you'll probably never see it that way.


But, then again all of that is just my

I’m a believer in the leader being able to fish the same water. Just don’t get other aspects like quitting and not having other spots These guys should have 5-10 each I guess. I don’t fault Randy at all. Guess I’m not making point clearly. Sorry Doug.

In other “sports” does a team let the leader roll on them because they don’t have a chance at the playoffs? No.

In your job, do you let someone coast because they did extra good the day before?
Maybe Doug does, you know those firefighters....

I know there is no exact parallel, but both anglers found the mammoth school, both could’ve dukes it out by putting a hammer to the fish...

Randy was in what, 16th place, didn’t have a camera and came back to win the Classic at Guntersville? It happens, why don’t we have the tradition of holding nothing back? Leaving it all “on the field(lake)?”

I always question the word of anyone stupid enough to try and flat spin a Skeeter like in the commercial.

And for the record the men and women that I work with have the utmost dedication and integrity, do not need excuses and do not quit. Keep typing on your keyboard and working your part time gig

man if this happened in a college tournament, there wouldn't be many anglers left fishing haha. It makes my stomach hurt seeing 25 boats within a football field sized area. I'd much rather go try to find fish somewhere else but I can see why it would be hard knowing the tournament will most likely be won in this certain area.

The spin worked as advertised. I just happened to not be in the boat when it happened.

^^^Ditto^^^

I read Lambert fished it 1st on day 1 then he left and Haynes fished it on day 1, then on day 2 Haynes beat Lambert to it fished it and Lambert didn't , on the 3rd day Lambert beat him to it and was fishing it when Haynes got there I see it as both of there spots,( I think they should both fished it,but could not work it out) I can't believe they had no other spots to go to.

The day 3 issue for Haynes was the prespective he had when they both went to the spot. He didn't know Lambert had caught most his weight there on day 1 and the passed fishing there on day 2 because Haynes got there first due to a lower boat number. To him the 2# lead was everything and gave him ownership to the spot that Lambert had fished on day 1 and would have fished starting on day 2 had Haynes not had a earlier number. In fact this ownership to him is absolute regardless of any other facts. I guess Haynes thinks if Lambert wants the spot on day 2 then he has to both camp on it on day 1 and have the lead going into day 2.? In Haynes case he wasn't aware that Lambert was on the spot on day 1 before Haynes. Day 3 Lambert is only 2 pounds back.

To Haynes the leader rule trumps everything. Nothing else matters.

In this case it's not that cut and dried. Lambert offered to work the spot together which he didn't have to do. If Haynes didn't want to then he could have went else where. I guess to him elsewhere included the house.

My question would our be who lead on day 1?

I guess there's REALLY no right answer. I CAN see valid points in ALL the posts & opinions. Maybe it is time for Haynes to hang it up. I'm sure he'll continue to run his floor covering business with success & enjoy more time spent with his family. Those were also mentioned by him. I wish BOTH success & satisfaction in the future in anything they do.