Texas Fishing Forum

Moon Myths

Posted By: Jpurdue

Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:13 PM

It's that time of year again. KVD recently published an article on how the moon drives bass movement during the spawn: Link to Bassmaster Article

I know this won't be a popular opinion with everyone...

I’m a huge KVD fan, but with all due respect, moon phases impacting bass movement is a complete myth. Can anyone point to a peer reviewed scientific study that shows the moon has an effect on freshwater fish movement? The answer is no. It doesn’t exist.

Speaking hypothetically, if it did exist how would the moon influence bass? Freshwater lakes are far too small for tidal movements. Your boat has a greater gravitational pull on a bass than the moon. Is it light levels? Do we think bass sit just below the surface like gators waiting to see if it’s a full moon? What do they do if it’s cloudy? Folks do realize that a full moon doesn’t have any more of a gravitational pull than a new moon right? It’s just a shadow. The whole moon is still there.

This is a prime example of an illusory correlation. If anything, my best guess as to what might be happening is this: If you can see a full moon, then you have clear skies. If you have clear skies at night, there is a good chance you had clear skies during the day. Clear skies mean sunshine which means warming water which could drive fish shallow during the spawn.

I’ve looked at over 40,000 catch data points trying to find a correlation between moon phases and catch rates. I even published a book on the subject. I love KVD, but this correlation does not exist and is nothing more than another moon myth.
Posted By: Mark Perry

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:33 PM

No offense, I'll trust KVD on this one. cheers
Posted By: GIG'EM AGGIES

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:37 PM

Yeah that moon deal is a joke but when you see cows laying you might as well stay home cause the fish ain't biting when the cows are laying. It's called animal spirits. clap
Posted By: fouzman

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:37 PM

Yeah, that's one I just can't go for, Josh. Why does the best fishing at Camelot Bell always revolve around moon phases? I've not done the research you have but can tell you without a doubt that my many years of OTW experience indicate better fishing around the new and full moons. Now, best feeding times during those periods published with solunar tables are impacted by too many variables to be valid.
Posted By: Mark Perry

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:42 PM

I just look at it like KVD has literally tens of thousands of hours on the water in more diverse bodies of water, seasonal conditions and weather to base his logic on. A guy running out for a few days to do a study is not taking in near the "data" that hours upon hours and years and years on the water see.

I don't get too caught up in any of it because my reality is I go fishing when I can go and I have no control over moon, weather, barometric pressure etc. I don't want too much negativity filling my mind as I launch.

I also put zero clout on the cows laying down deal. Look out at a herd, you rarely see all of them doing the same thing at the same time.
Posted By: SoCal Tom

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:45 PM

I was out fun fishing one time and on the way to the lake we saw some cows laying down. My partner pulled over and started yelling at them to get their arses off the ground! You know who you are... roflmao I'm with Mark. I trust the master.
Posted By: bigfishtx

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:48 PM

I believe your data, but something sets fish to spawn in waves. It's always been assumed it was the moon. Maybe it's water temp? Maybe some fish are ready to go at 60, some at 64 and some at 68?

I will say this though, I have had many days where the bite was phenomenal and was within 10 minutes of a "prime time" on the lunar charts. It seems to effect saltwater fish more than freshwater, but it surely can't be coincidence that the fish turned on and off like a light and it was nearly spot on to the lunar tables. www.usprimetimes.com is the site I've used for saltwater for several years, it's spot on, like every time, unless there's some serious weather going on.

The last time I saw it confirmed in freshwater was for the THSBA State Championship on Ray Roberts last year. We found fish in practice, but they would not bite until 9:30 a.m. We fished it hard in the morning on day 1, nothing. Watched 4 other boats fish the same water while we were close by, nothing. Went back, my guys caught 3 for about 12 lbs in a matter of minutes then it quit. I checked my phone that night and sure enough, it was spot on. Day 2, we started again with nothing there. Watched several more boats fish through there with nothing, my guys were panic mode, I told them no worries, they wouldn't bite for another hour. Boats cleared out, we got on the spot about 10 minutes early based on the charts, then the next hour they had 17 lbs, then it was completely over.

Prefishing for a tourney on Lewisville several years ago, in February, fished all day with nothing, then caught a couple of nice ones at 4:30. I talked with a couple of other guys, same story, zero fish until between 4 and 5. Checked the tables, spot on.

Is your catch data just on big fish? Maybe it's skewed to the spawn if it is?

Whether the moon affects the spawn, I don't know, but I do know it effects fish. Here's something to investigate if you have enough data. It's never the full moon or new moon that has shown to have the biggest effect for me, it's the "moon overhead", and even more so the "moon underfoot".
Posted By: 361V

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:53 PM

I do not have the scientific data to prove my beliefs but I definatly disagree. I think many people take it to an extreme and give moon phases....too much credit for bass behavior but does this science play a role in bass behavior? Absolutely! Explain the many, many years of my fishing experience that there have been empty spawning areas only to have the bass magically appear within a couple days both sides of the full moon. Year after year after year. I don’t know why, I just know it happens. No absolutes but there is some science too all this. Plus the “my boat has a greater gravitational pull on bass than the moon” thing kinda looses my respect for your 40,000 pieces of data. JK, a little! laugh
Posted By: Klinker

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:55 PM

I can't say with certainty, but if it affects werewolves it seems like it could do the same for bass. OMG
Posted By: Jarrett Latta

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 02:59 PM

It has an effect on spawn when conditions are already ideal. I've seen more big fish on avg hit the bank leading into a full moon.
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:04 PM

I watch the activity of my wife's house cats. It is an absolute predictor of bass behavior. Cats going nuts tearing the house up fish eating, all of them asleep all day fish not eating.
Posted By: lconn4

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:15 PM

http://sfrc.ufl.edu/allenlab/Popular%20Articles/Moon%20phase%20a%20myth_Mar%2010.pdf
Posted By: COWBOYSFAN008

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:21 PM

I believe the moon effects fishing like they can see my braid. rolleyes
Posted By: K.D.

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:22 PM

I love how you dispel conventional wisdom and replace it with “my best guess what might be happening is...”.

There are also people who believe the earth is flat. I suppose we can all peacefully coexist.
Posted By: saibling

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:27 PM

I haven't done studies, but I do read and Fish quite a bit. There are many factors driving large mouth bass bite. Some counter act the other. Water clarity, forage base, cover, fishing pressure, barometric pressure, water temps, water rising or falling, current, season, fish population, angler skill, angler faith in presentation, Quantum physics, and moon phase. Angler TOW and willingness to change counter act these factors to some extent. Just a thought.
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: K.D.
I love how you dispel conventional wisdom and replace it with “my best guess what might be happening is...”.

There are also people who believe the earth is flat. I suppose we can all peacefully coexist.


Are you saying it's not flat?
Posted By: K.D.

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: WAWI
Originally Posted By: K.D.
I love how you dispel conventional wisdom and replace it with “my best guess what might be happening is...”.

There are also people who believe the earth is flat. I suppose we can all peacefully coexist.


Are you saying it's not flat?


I have my doubts. But my best guess is that it’s round.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:29 PM



There we a go. An actual scientific study that clearly shows no correlation with spawning of freshwater fish and the moon phases.

Folks need to understand the concept of confirmation bias. People tend to remember things that happen that confirm their preconceived notions and they tend to forget those things that don't support the position. That's what's happening here. Guys remember when the fish did move up during the full moon, but when they don't, they either forget about it or blame it on the weather, cold water, rain, pressure, wind direction etc...
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: fouzman
Yeah, that's one I just can't go for, Josh. Why does the best fishing at Camelot Bell always revolve around moon phases? I've not done the research you have but can tell you without a doubt that my many years of OTW experience indicate better fishing around the new and full moons. Now, best feeding times during those periods published with solunar tables are impacted by too many variables to be valid.


I hear you Chris... That said, the best day I'm aware of on Bell was Justin's 61 lb top 5 day. 3/8/16. Waining Cresent. Not new, not full.
Posted By: Brent S

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:38 PM

Moon doesn't matter IMO
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:40 PM

Here’s a list of data you guys can download and review for yourselves:

Download the date of these catches, then use the date and google to find the moon phase on that day. Then look to see if any one moon phase is favored over the other.

ShareLunker data
Toledo Bend Lunker Club data
Top 25 LMB catches
IGA Freshwater World Record catches

With just these 4 you can get a couple thousand data points and see for yourself that there is no dominate moon phase when these catches occur.

In addition to the above I looked at another 40,000 catches from clubs as far north as Canada to as far south as Florida. Same results. No correlation. Trust me, I wish it was there. An easy way to improve catch rates? Sign me up!
Posted By: WAWI

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:42 PM

Most of the time most of us fish when we can fish and tournaments are when they are. I pay almost zero attention to it accept when formulation of excuses for sucking so bad.
Posted By: C.Seymour

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: bigfishtx


The last time I saw it confirmed in freshwater was for the THSBA State Championship on Ray Roberts last year. We found fish in practice, but they would not bite until 9:30 a.m. We fished it hard in the morning on day 1, nothing. Watched 4 other boats fish the same water while we were close by, nothing. Went back, my guys caught 3 for about 12 lbs in a matter of minutes then it quit. I checked my phone that night and sure enough, it was spot on. Day 2, we started again with nothing there. Watched several more boats fish through there with nothing, my guys were panic mode, I told them no worries, they wouldn't bite for another hour. Boats cleared out, we got on the spot about 10 minutes early based on the charts, then the next hour they had 17 lbs, then it was completely over.

Feel free to PM me that spot, I would have to clean doo doo off my boat deck if me and and a buddy could pull up to RR and snag 17 lbs that fast.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 04:05 PM

I do occasionally plan my fishing trips around moon phases. Musky guys are crazy about it, so if I'm musky fishing in the north, I will plan my trips a few days a head of a full moon so I can beat the masses to the water. The same methodology would probably be valuable on some of the more popular bass lakes during the spawn as well.
Posted By: Dr JL

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Here’s a list of data you guys can download and review for yourselves:

Download the date of these catches, then use the date and google to find the moon phase on that day. Then look to see if any one moon phase is favored over the other.

ShareLunker data
Toledo Bend Lunker Club data
Top 25 LMB catches
IGA Freshwater World Record catches

With just these 4 you can get a couple thousand data points and see for yourself that there is no dominate moon phase when these catches occur.

In addition to the above I looked at another 40,000 catches from clubs as far north as Canada to as far south as Florida. Same results. No correlation. Trust me, I wish it was there. An easy way to improve catch rates? Sign me up!


Looking at that data I imagine you can see some other clearly identifiable factors, like time of year for example.
Many factors seem to trump moon phases. Moon phases may correlate to when more people are fishing since they schedule trips based on them- I used to do that but I find it better to randomly schedule several one days trips rather than make one big trip- harder to get weather lucky.
Posted By: tangledup3

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 05:06 PM

Thinking outside the box maybe it affects the fisherman making us focus more or making our desire to fish more active. I also remember reading how moon phases affect crawfish movements and cycles. In reality there is no way to prove a y of this for certain so it remains another mystery piece of the puzzle for catching bass which is why it's so addictive.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 06:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Dr JL
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Here’s a list of data you guys can download and review for yourselves:

Download the date of these catches, then use the date and google to find the moon phase on that day. Then look to see if any one moon phase is favored over the other.

ShareLunker data
Toledo Bend Lunker Club data
Top 25 LMB catches
IGA Freshwater World Record catches

With just these 4 you can get a couple thousand data points and see for yourself that there is no dominate moon phase when these catches occur.

In addition to the above I looked at another 40,000 catches from clubs as far north as Canada to as far south as Florida. Same results. No correlation. Trust me, I wish it was there. An easy way to improve catch rates? Sign me up!


Looking at that data I imagine you can see some other clearly identifiable factors, like time of year for example.
Many factors seem to trump moon phases. Moon phases may correlate to when more people are fishing since they schedule trips based on them- I used to do that but I find it better to randomly schedule several one days trips rather than make one big trip- harder to get weather lucky.


I'm actually surprised there isn't at least a little correlation. You'd think with all the extra people fishing around these particular moon phases more fish would be caught. If anything it tells me the added pressure probably hurts catch rates for the average angler thus catch rates stay flat even though overall "effort" is up. I freely acknowledge one of the big short falls of my data is that it does not accurately capture "effort" (e.g. the number of anglers out on any given day). I still think there are lots of useful insights you can draw from the data.
Posted By: Hog Jaw

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 06:32 PM

I think it catches more fishermen than bass , the full moon is what I’m referring to .
Posted By: Jarrett Latta

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:00 PM

Another thing to remember is that just because it may bring a bigger wave of giants to the bank, doesn't mean they are catchable. This is what I've witnessed over the past 15 years. Some years I was about to sight fish almost every day as the spawn progressed. If conditions were ideal, you would see more big fish "move up" around a full moon. That doesn't mean they were on beds or catchable, just that they were up were I could see them cruising. Lots of data tries to point to catch rates. I'm not talking about catchable fish, just fish I personally witnessed. You could have perfect conditions for 2 weeks and then a full moon and boom, they would show up. Some would get on beds, others who knows, maybe spawning out of sight or going back out. Just my 2 cents
Posted By: Gingerbread Man

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:11 PM

That is a great point about catching as opposed to seeing them.

I have fished Choke Canyon Lake since the late 80s and have witnessed the movement of bass into the shallows based on the full moon, regardless of the water temperature, much like in the KVD article. On Choke, the full moon in February is almost always a time for a big movement of fish into the shallows even if water temperatures in the 50s. However, catching them was something all together different...so if your data is based on catching fish I could see how you would not get a correlation.

Having said that...I have your book and recommend it to friends and the biggest takeaway from your book is fishing pressure...without a doubt I believe in that correlation to fish catches.
Posted By: Phoenix 920 Pro xp

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:14 PM

It's all about water temp. Look at everything else in nature. When the trees are budding and the bluebonnetts are popping up the bass r spawning
Posted By: Fishinfellow

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:14 PM

If memory serves, Mike long and a handful of other Cali Guys (Siemantel and I cant remember who) kept logs and found that they did catch bigger fish around full and new moons. I've always enjoyed fishing at night during a full moon because of how much brighter it is and my conjecture after a number of years fishing and reading a lot is that bass will spawn at night during a full noon (especially a warm night) so possibly a "wave" of fish moves up around a full moon because more move up at night when its light through the night.
2cents
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Gingerbread Man
That is a great point about catching as opposed to seeing them.

I have fished Choke Canyon Lake since the late 80s and have witnessed the movement of bass into the shallows based on the full moon, regardless of the water temperature, much like in the KVD article. On Choke, the full moon in February is almost always a time for a big movement of fish into the shallows even if water temperatures in the 50s. However, catching them was something all together different...so if your data is based on catching fish I could see how you would not get a correlation.

Having said that...I have your book and recommend it to friends and the biggest takeaway from your book is fishing pressure...without a doubt I believe in that correlation to fish catches.


Glad you enjoyed the book.

All my data is 100% based on catching. The only way you'd get actual movement data would be with gps trackers. I suspect someday we will see large scale studies of this nature that settle the debate once and for all.
Posted By: Jarrett Latta

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:25 PM

Did John Hope discuss movement correlation with the full moon?
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Jaret Latta
Did John Hope discuss movement correlation with the full moon?


John told me big bass (those over 7lbs) did basically the same thing day in and day out regardless of just about any external factors. Whether, seasons, etc... Nothing really impacted them unless it was a truly major change. John said they got big because they had figured out a routine you could set you watch to that worked very well for them. (He never specifically commented on movement during the spawn except to say that virtually all big fish went shallow during this period).

One other interesting thing he told me... He said that on several occasions he witness the bass go completely haywire. He said this would happen simultaneously to every bass in the lake that he'd track. He said, they would basically just swim in circles for a period of up to a couple hours then mysteriously return to their normal routine. He had no explanation for this. When I pressed him, he told me his best guess was maybe solar flares or something. Who knows. Strange indeed.
Posted By: Der Vorsteher

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:04 PM

JPurdue, somewhat off topic but not, do you believe the full moon has an effect on fishing in general? I don't have "data" but my worst days fishing always are the days after a full moon. I honestly have never had a good day the day after. I have had some awesome trips the night of but never the day after.
Posted By: coachallentca

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:23 PM

I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.
Posted By: CCTX

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:45 PM

Night time temperatures are slightly warmer when the moon is near full/full

The reflected light+heat off the moon from the sun warms the earth/water more compared to a new moon or crescent

This, very small increase in night time temps (in my mind) may be just enough to trigger bass into spawning

Of course, some bass probably spawn during a new moon. One of nature’s ways of literally not putting all the eggs in one basket
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Der Vorsteher�
JPurdue, somewhat off topic but not, do you believe the full moon has an effect on fishing in general? I don't have "data" but my worst days fishing always are the days after a full moon. I honestly have never had a good day the day after. I have had some awesome trips the night of but never the day after.


I do not personally believe it has any reliably predicable effect on fishing. Someone mentioned Mike Long likes full moons. Bob Underwood loved warm drizzle pitch black nights. Ask 10 different guys get 10 different answers.

If you would have asked me before I started all this, I would have bet money several of these things would have causal relationships. I've sliced it and diced the data a million different ways though trying to prove it. It's just not there, not with moon phases anyway. When I ran all this data I used statistical confidence levels of 95% or above.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:53 PM

Originally Posted By: collincountytx
Night time temperatures are slightly warmer when the moon is near full/full

The reflected light+heat off the moon from the sun warms the earth/water more compared to a new moon or crescent

This, very small increase in night time temps (in my mind) may be just enough to trigger bass into spawning

Of course, some bass probably spawn during a new moon. One of nature’s ways of literally not putting all the eggs in one basket


What if it's cloudy?
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 08:58 PM

Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


It is absolutely true that large numbers of doctors and nurses believe this. It is also true they are all wrong about it. Great example of confirmation bias.

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/full-moon-hospital/
Posted By: lconn4

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 09:08 PM

If I'm not fishing at night, I dread the mornings after a full moon. Never kept records but salt or fresh, the next day until at least afternoons were memorably non productive. Any phase of moon was more welcomed than full moon for me.
Posted By: Donald Harper

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 09:24 PM

I fish in a place that would tell me if there was a better moon phase or not. We fish Mexico where you can catch 100 Bass per day. We have tried going on every phase of the moon and nothing has changed. It is not better before - during - or after a full moon. All my 10 + fish have come on all different phases and the most have come early in Jan.; but the numbers of course come during the spawn. Females are hard to catch down there because the males have them so cowed down they just want bite. The males are between 5 and 6 lbs. and meaner than H-E double L.
taz
Posted By: Bass Buster1

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 09:59 PM

Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


Same here. Likely coincidence but as an ER nurse she has lots of stories.
Posted By: Der Vorsteher

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 10:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Bass Buster1
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


Same here. Likely coincidence but as an ER nurse she has lots of stories.


I'm in education and I hate full moons...
Posted By: grout-scout

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 10:28 PM

I thought John Hopes book said that the big fish came shallow at night and laid eggs on full moon nights, then retreated back in the morning to their home. I’ll try to remember to look later.
Posted By: slim 285

Re: Moon Myths - 04/09/18 10:35 PM

If you go back and look at all the 13lb sharelunkers recoreded there is no better moon phase. There is almost equal fish caught all across the different moon phases.
Posted By: basscaster46

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: GIG'EM AGGIES
Yeah that moon deal is a joke but when you see cows laying you might as well stay home cause the fish ain't biting when the cows are laying. It's called animal spirits. clap

+1
Posted By: coachallentca

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 02:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


It is absolutely true that large numbers of doctors and nurses believe this. It is also true they are all wrong about it. Great example of confirmation bias.

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/full-moon-hospital/


anyone can write an article but it does not make fact
Posted By: kevine80

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 02:42 AM

i like a bright full moon --it helps me hook my boat up in the dark !

if i lived on the lake and had nothing but spare time to fish when i wanted i might pay attention to this kinda stuff ----buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut life is always in the way

i fish whenever i can !
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:32 AM

I know the statistics do not confirm that a bass' spawning activity changes during a full moon phase but I will have to agree to disagree. Over a four year period I kept logs of all my fishing trips. I recorded wind speed/direction, water temp, lures, water depth, etc.

In a little over 900 days of fishing from 1988 thru 1991 I saw a direct correlation to my catch rates of larger fish (5# plus) during a full moon phase.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:49 AM

Originally Posted By: coachallentca
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


It is absolutely true that large numbers of doctors and nurses believe this. It is also true they are all wrong about it. Great example of confirmation bias.

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/full-moon-hospital/


anyone can write an article but it does not make fact


Anyone can think a thing, but that does not make it a fact. There I fixed it for you. Did you peak at the article? The sources were reputable, and the findings resulted from multiple years of study. This myth is actually pretty easy to bust. You simple look at hospital admittance records over a long period of time and compare it to moon phases. Sources were: American Journal of Emergency Medicine, Nursing Research journal, and The Wall Street Journal. All that from just one article. There are many dozens more of research papers out there with similar findings.
Posted By: Mark Perry

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:52 AM

The article that tries to say the full moon has no effect on people/patients is a load of [censored] too. Done this job for 20yrs and it most definitely has an effect. Seen it firsthand too many times and I trust my own eyes over an article in a business journal.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:53 AM

Originally Posted By: Ken A.
I know the statistics do not confirm that a bass' spawning activity changes during a full moon phase but I will have to agree to disagree. Over a four year period I kept logs of all my fishing trips. I recorded wind speed/direction, water temp, lures, water depth, etc.

In a little over 900 days of fishing from 1988 thru 1991 I saw a direct correlation to my catch rates of larger fish (5# plus) during a full moon phase.


Ken that was so long ago those bass could have been a different species for all we know. Did you have to use a scroll and charcoal to write those logs? POW!

I know I won't convince everyone, maybe not anyone, that's okay... More fish for me when I'm out on the water a few days before everyone else out when these moon phases hit. Good discussion all around gents.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:56 AM

Originally Posted By: Mark Perry
The article that tries to say the full moon has no effect on people/patients is a load of [censored] too. Done this job for 20yrs and it most definitely has an effect. Seen it firsthand too many times and I trust my own eyes over an article in a business journal.


Again, it was a business journal reporting on several research papers written by highly respected medical journals. Which source would you respect? This one has been so thoroughly debunked if you give me a name I can probably find a paper they've written on it! You guys could be case studies for illusory correlation and confirmation bias.
Posted By: Txmedic033

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:58 AM

If I schedule a fishing trip in advance it will be on a full moon. Hopefully nobody else believes in lunar cycles affecting the fishing and they schedule a different time.
Posted By: Chato

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 12:11 PM

So was out with Mark Pack fishing in Dale Creek in the afternoon late in Fall a few years ago..the fishing was a bit slow by his standards but he told me when the Moon dropped off the horizon the fish would start bite..guess what as soon as it set the Loons and Shad showed up and it was game on..the Moon always has a effect
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Chato
So was out with Mark Pack fishing in Dale Creek in the afternoon late in Fall a few years ago..the fishing was a bit slow by his standards but he told me when the Moon dropped off the horizon the fish would start bite..guess what as soon as it set the Loons and Shad showed up and it was game on..the Moon always has a effect


That's powerful evidence there. I kid.

Full and new moons rise and set with the sun. Which of course coincides with low light levels which is generally the most active fishing period of any day.

Have you ever been out on the water when the moon set and you didn't catch fish? Can you tell us about that?
Posted By: west tex angler

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 12:32 PM

Well, this theory has been beat to death.
I believe in the moon cycles and fish and hunt by them as much as I can.
The moon reflects light(energy) from the sun. The reason farmers and ranchers plant by the dark of the moon is so the seed gets full effect of the sun's radiation. The seeds get a quick start. The same with plankton in the water. It blooms better, and little fish that feed on it get eaten by bigger fish etc etc.
Big bass are lethargic enough, but are more active during these periods.
National Weather Service will tell you that moon phases also have an effect on weather.
As for me, I want to fish when the big fish are eating the smaller fish. Its that simple.
Someone said that there is no tide in a lake, only in the ocean. Every body of water has a tidal pressure, even if its slight.
If I can't fish on a full moon, at least I want to fish on a waxing or rising moon. Just to increase my odds.
If you want a good read, try John Knight's Moon UP, Moon Down. It's probably 75 years old.
Any animal or fish that is fed artificially, is probably not concerned as much by weather or moon phase, but fish that rely totally on what their "food chain" gives them to work with, are the ones I fish for.
Anyway, good luck
Posted By: Mark Perry

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: Mark Perry
The article that tries to say the full moon has no effect on people/patients is a load of [censored] too. Done this job for 20yrs and it most definitely has an effect. Seen it firsthand too many times and I trust my own eyes over an article in a business journal.


Again, it was a business journal reporting on several research papers written by highly respected medical journals. Which source would you respect? This one has been so thoroughly debunked if you give me a name I can probably find a paper they've written on it! You guys could be case studies for illusory correlation and confirmation bias.


I ain't telling you what to believe. I am saying personally I trust what I have seen during my career far more than you and your research papers.
Same with the moon phase subject.

Don't take it personally I will defer to KVD, Mark Pack and others that do it for a living more than your studies or your book. Not trying to take a shot at you or argue. Just my own opinion and I'm sure everyone sees things differently. Interesting subject and post. Enjoying the replies and information.
Posted By: CCTX

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:44 PM

Part of the issue here is there are factors that may effect bass activity/behavior, but have no effect on catch rates.
Posted By: west tex angler

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:47 PM

One more thing and I'll shut up, no one's opinion will be changed anyway.
Major feeding periods don't just occur with the rising or fading light from the sun.
Anytime you are fishing, look up to see where the moon is positioned. If the sun and moon are both visable and are an equal distance from their horizons, 10am and 2pm, for example. you have a major.
If the major is at 9 to 10 in the morning, I sleep in and go out around 8:45.
I fish by the moon cycle now that Im retired and I just catch more fish.
The moon is just as important if you are night fishing,
Posted By: J.P. Greeson

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:49 PM

Moon and tides ... they occur when the Earth, the Sun, and the Moon are in a line. The gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun both contribute to the tides. Spring tides occur during the full moon and the new moon. During the moon's quarter phases the sun and moon work at right angles, causing the bulges to cancel each other.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides

There is no question the tides have an effect on fishing saltwater. Any competent inshore angler can prove that to you fairly easily with a few hours on the water. I'll conservatively state that 85% (probably closer to 95%) of the time fish stop feeding during slack tide.

The moon affects bodies of water. The gravitational pull of the moon varies with its phases. The moon also affects the water in our body. All the critters that roam the earth are more in touch with changes in environment like barometric pressure and gravitational fluctuations. Then you have the light of a full moon. There is no question fish will feed at night during a full moon. I firmly believe the moon affects fish behavior.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:56 PM

Originally Posted By: J.P. Greeson
Moon and tides ... they occur when the Earth, the Sun, and the Moon are in a line. The gravitational forces of the Moon and the Sun both contribute to the tides. Spring tides occur during the full moon and the new moon. During the moon's quarter phases the sun and moon work at right angles, causing the bulges to cancel each other.

http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides

There is no question the tides have an effect on fishing saltwater. Any competent inshore angler can prove that to you fairly easily with a few hours on the water. I'll conservatively state that 85% (probably closer to 95%) of the time fish stop feeding during slack tide.

The moon affects bodies of water. The gravitational pull of the moon varies with its phases. The moon also affects the water in our body. All the critters that roam the earth are more in touch with changes in environment like barometric pressure and gravitational fluctuations. Then you have the light of a full moon. There is no question fish will feed at night during a full moon. I firmly believe the moon affects fish behavior.


I've never made any claims about salt water fishing. I don't do much of it, never studied it. That said, I fully believe fish behavior is affected by tides. That said tides do not exist in a measurable sense in freshwater anywhere but the great lakes.
Posted By: J.P. Greeson

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 01:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
You guys could be case studies for illusory correlation and confirmation bias.

When you resort to insulting your audience, you often lose their respect.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Mark Perry
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: Mark Perry
The article that tries to say the full moon has no effect on people/patients is a load of [censored] too. Done this job for 20yrs and it most definitely has an effect. Seen it firsthand too many times and I trust my own eyes over an article in a business journal.


Again, it was a business journal reporting on several research papers written by highly respected medical journals. Which source would you respect? This one has been so thoroughly debunked if you give me a name I can probably find a paper they've written on it! You guys could be case studies for illusory correlation and confirmation bias.


I ain't telling you what to believe. I am saying personally I trust what I have seen during my career far more than you and your research papers.
Same with the moon phase subject.

Don't take it personally I will defer to KVD, Mark Pack and others that do it for a living more than your studies or your book. Not trying to take a shot at you or argue. Just my own opinion and I'm sure everyone sees things differently. Interesting subject and post. Enjoying the replies and information.


Yep, fair enough Mark. There are a whole bunch of you guys that spend enormous amounts of time on the water and I put great value on your opinions. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Posted By: bassmanrudy

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 02:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Ken A.
I know the statistics do not confirm that a bass' spawning activity changes during a full moon phase but I will have to agree to disagree. Over a four year period I kept logs of all my fishing trips. I recorded wind speed/direction, water temp, lures, water depth, etc.

In a little over 900 days of fishing from 1988 thru 1991 I saw a direct correlation to my catch rates of larger fish (5# plus) during a full moon phase.



HOLY batman balls that's a LOT of fishing!!!! I wish I kept a running consistent log/journal. I start but stop so many times. I'm sure just learning "where" I get bites over time would allow me to be much more efficient on the water.

As to moon phase(s) I can't say I've noticed it good or bad either way. I fish when I can. The most noticeable thing to me especially first thing in the morning is "if" the wildlife are active the fish are active too. If I don't see birds flitting/squirrels moving/ducks paddling around then the bass bite for me at least is usually slim to none. After reading all of this and if I had kept a log I would now know "if" it was during a moon phase.

Good topic lots of interesting stuff to read!
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 02:19 PM

Originally Posted By: J.P. Greeson
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
You guys could be case studies for illusory correlation and confirmation bias.

When you resort to insulting your audience, you often lose their respect.


Just a little good spirited sparring with gloves on. No personal offense intended towards Mark.
Posted By: 1bassdaddy

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 04:00 PM

Jpurdue...I respect your opinion (whether I agree entirely or not) and your sense of humor.
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 04:13 PM

Originally Posted By: bassmanrudy
Originally Posted By: Ken A.
I know the statistics do not confirm that a bass' spawning activity changes during a full moon phase but I will have to agree to disagree. Over a four year period I kept logs of all my fishing trips. I recorded wind speed/direction, water temp, lures, water depth, etc.

In a little over 900 days of fishing from 1988 thru 1991 I saw a direct correlation to my catch rates of larger fish (5# plus) during a full moon phase.



HOLY batman balls that's a LOT of fishing!!!! I wish I kept a running consistent log/journal. I start but stop so many times. I'm sure just learning "where" I get bites over time would allow me to be much more efficient on the water.

As to moon phase(s) I can't say I've noticed it good or bad either way. I fish when I can. The most noticeable thing to me especially first thing in the morning is "if" the wildlife are active the fish are active too. If I don't see birds flitting/squirrels moving/ducks paddling around then the bass bite for me at least is usually slim to none. After reading all of this and if I had kept a log I would now know "if" it was during a moon phase.

Good topic lots of interesting stuff to read!


I was guiding full time during Forks heydays. wink
Posted By: Txmedic033

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 05:59 PM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


It is absolutely true that large numbers of doctors and nurses believe this. It is also true they are all wrong about it. Great example of confirmation bias.

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/full-moon-hospital/


anyone can write an article but it does not make fact


Anyone can think a thing, but that does not make it a fact. There I fixed it for you. Did you peak at the article? The sources were reputable, and the findings resulted from multiple years of study. This myth is actually pretty easy to bust. You simple look at hospital admittance records over a long period of time and compare it to moon phases. Sources were: American Journal of Emergency Medicine, Nursing Research journal, and The Wall Street Journal. All that from just one article. There are many dozens more of research papers out there with similar findings.


Don't pretend to understand healthcare because you read an article on it. Very few patients that are seen in the ER are actually admitted. The full moon brings out the crazies. Find someone in emergency services that thinks otherwise.
Posted By: Chris G

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 06:18 PM

To me this has actually been one of the more interesting threads I've ever read. Lots of people providing real world documentation or research on a very cool topic. Only thing I can add is that my brother and I own close to 2,500 exotics and there is always a different "feel" about them in and around full and new moons, especially the full moons.
Posted By: Dr JL

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 06:29 PM

I like this thread because we are talking about data-and a potentially useful way to use data driven results to get better. No emotions matter with regards to data.
It’s like-here are the results-use them or not as you desire.
I know I like to take all kinds of data and mix it with my own experience to come up with big fish plans, trips, etc. Everyone would not agree with my way and I am most certainly not always right. That’s a cool thing about this forum-everyone can have a say. I like to read all these posts and certainly respect them all.
As far as moon phases I honestly just don’t know the answer as it relates to big bass catching. Maybe threads like this will help me to truly understand the topic.
Posted By: RJF1423

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 06:37 PM

Originally Posted By: coachallentca
Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: coachallentca
I don't know if it affects but sure does affect the crazies. My wife is a nurse and every nurse she knows hates the full moon. To many crazies out.


It is absolutely true that large numbers of doctors and nurses believe this. It is also true they are all wrong about it. Great example of confirmation bias.

http://www.healthcarebusinesstech.com/full-moon-hospital/


anyone can write an article but it does not make fact
I agree. I work in education and there are differences in how junior high kids act during a full moon and weather changes.


When it comes to data analysis and testing different theories, you can skew data based on your bias as well. I have read enough peer-reviewed journals and scientific data that are pure fiction you never really know what to believe. There are plenty of scientists who say that climate change exists and they also claim there is evidence to prove it. Who is in control of this "evidence?" The people trying to push their agenda....
Posted By: reeltexan

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 06:44 PM


I think moon phases do effect bass this time of year.

I think the barometer effects them year 'round.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: reeltexan

I think moon phases do effect bass this time of year.

I think the barometer effects them year 'round.


Don't get me started on barometric pressure. Haha... We'll have to save that for another thread another day.
Posted By: bigbass94

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 07:14 PM

The only time I really rely on anything related to the moon is during the spawn. Otherwise I don't really pay attention. I only get to fish on the weekends, so I go whether or not the moon is in the right phase or not or whatever.
Posted By: Jumpin J

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 07:21 PM

I've had the pleasure, for over 40 yrs., working/ being around several different places that have bass(all sizes), in captivity, and have talked to different Biologists. Just watching them daily, you can predict weather(pressure) and moon phases, by their behavior, actions/ movements, especially the big girls. Differences mainly were their position up or down, in the water column, and close or away from hard cover.
Posted By: Bass Buster1

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 07:27 PM

IMO if your time is your most valuable commodity like mine is, what it boils down to is fish every time you can get on the water! Try not to let things like moon phase or whatever it is that gets in our head and makes us doubt our ability to catch them on a given day bother us. Just go whenever we can and fish the conditions. I know for a fact that I have used things like time of year and moon phase and even the cows as excuses myself many times. I am learning after a lifetime of doing this that if I don't catch them I should not point at my environment but point at myself and my in ability to outsmart a fish with a pea brain.

BUT...just in case the moon phase theory does hold water, and KVD and many others here are right, I will be hitting Roberts and Lewisville hard in the next couple of weeks searching for a giant! The water temps are right and the full moon is about two weeks away! I hope to sway the giant catch statistics in favor of the moon by landing a behemoth or two! grin It has been enjoyable reading a civil discussion!
Posted By: west tex angler

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 07:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Jumpin J
I've had the pleasure, for over 40 yrs., working/ being around several different places that have bass(all sizes), in captivity, and have talked to different Biologists. Just watching them daily, you can predict weather(pressure) and moon phases, by their behavior, actions/ movements, especially the big girls. Differences mainly were their position up or down, in the water column, and close or away from hard cover.

If they are in captivity, are they fed ,or are they "on their own". Big difference.
Also, one poster said that the moon phase is only important in the spring...come on!
Little fish bite all of the time. They are easy to find, but big bass feed when they have to, and will take advantage of anything that would help the effort. That's what I think we are talking about here.
You can run your graph all over Fork and see big fish laying on the bottom, or in the tree limbs, but when you see them in a school rising up like a christmas tree, you better stop and throw something at them. weather that is spring, or any other time of year.

Good luck
Posted By: GIG'EM AGGIES

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 08:27 PM

I got some data on some cows laying if anybody is interested. thumb
Posted By: JacksonBean

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 09:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
It's that time of year again. KVD recently published an article on how the moon drives bass movement during the spawn: Link to Bassmaster Article

I know this won't be a popular opinion with everyone...

I’m a huge KVD fan, but with all due respect, moon phases impacting bass movement is a complete myth. Can anyone point to a peer reviewed scientific study that shows the moon has an effect on freshwater fish movement? The answer is no. It doesn’t exist.

Speaking hypothetically, if it did exist how would the moon influence bass? Freshwater lakes are far too small for tidal movements. Your boat has a greater gravitational pull on a bass than the moon. Is it light levels? Do we think bass sit just below the surface like gators waiting to see if it’s a full moon? What do they do if it’s cloudy? Folks do realize that a full moon doesn’t have any more of a gravitational pull than a new moon right? It’s just a shadow. The whole moon is still there.

This is a prime example of an illusory correlation. If anything, my best guess as to what might be happening is this: If you can see a full moon, then you have clear skies. If you have clear skies at night, there is a good chance you had clear skies during the day. Clear skies mean sunshine which means warming water which could drive fish shallow during the spawn.

I’ve looked at over 40,000 catch data points trying to find a correlation between moon phases and catch rates. I even published a book on the subject. I love KVD, but this correlation does not exist and is nothing more than another moon myth.



I think it's hysterical you posted this on here. You brave soul!

I've found that people pigeonhole data and experiences (me included) and there's no amount of logic or data points that will cause them to waver. The barometric pressure example is a great example.

I applaud your efforts!
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 09:34 PM

Originally Posted By: JacksonBean

I think it's hysterical you posted this on here. You brave soul!

I've found that people pigeonhole data and experiences (me included) and there's no amount of logic or data points that will cause them to waver. The barometric pressure example is a great example.

I applaud your efforts!


I love fishing man. Love talking about fishing. Just like everyone else on here, I hope to learn a little something that might give me an edge the next time I'm out on the water. Discussion and debate is the sharpening stone that makes us all better!
Posted By: JacksonBean

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 09:59 PM



Edited.....

Have a fantastic day gents! wink
Posted By: Klinker

Re: Moon Myths - 04/10/18 11:00 PM

One time, at band camp, I had this flute......
Posted By: cephusjoe

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 12:20 AM

I’m fishing regardless of moon phase, I’m covered lol
Posted By: Ken A.

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: Jpurdue
Originally Posted By: Ken A.
I know the statistics do not confirm that a bass' spawning activity changes during a full moon phase but I will have to agree to disagree. Over a four year period I kept logs of all my fishing trips. I recorded wind speed/direction, water temp, lures, water depth, etc.

In a little over 900 days of fishing from 1988 thru 1991 I saw a direct correlation to my catch rates of larger fish (5# plus) during a full moon phase.


Ken that was so long ago those bass could have been a different species for all we know. Did you have to use a scroll and charcoal to write those logs? POW!


I used stone tablets, thank you very much and they were heavy!

roflmao
Posted By: Jumpin J

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 02:03 AM

Obviously fish in captivity are fed, their daily life is very "routine". The point is, that within that confinement, you could watch them behave differently to fronts/ weather, and the moon phases, all indoors.
Posted By: grout-scout

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 02:34 AM

Something written on page 3 that is way wrong. There are many freshwater rivers that are tidal, you hear about them raising as much as 6’. Yeah they are attached to the ocean, but the water is fresh many miles away.


I have a cousin in law that works in the ER. Last year at her kids bday party she made the comment “ughhh, almost a full moon. We have the craziest things & people come in during full moons”.


Her husband is a fireman and he agreed that they have to deal with more nut jobs during the full moon.


Myself personally, I can’t sleep well during a full moon. My bud said he doesn’t sleep well either. I think it has much more influence than people think. Go to the Gulf of Mexico on a full moon and watch how much higher the tide gets for those couple days. Believe it or not, but go experience it and you will learn something.
Posted By: lconn4

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 03:02 AM

No doubt in my mind that crazy folks act crazy when you tell them there's a full moon out. bolt
Posted By: Big'n On Jig'n

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 10:31 AM

Interesting perspectives from different sides. At the end of the day we're persuaded by on our own understanding and experiences. For me personally, I have been convinced over the past 3 years of serious crappie fishing that the moon phases have significant impact. Especially the 3 day window around the new and full moon. More so with the new moon for me. No scientific research to prove anything. I fish 3-4 days/wk and always lean on the solunar tables and make sure I'm not sitting on the bank eating my sammich during the peak feeding periods. To each his own.
Posted By: TOWup

Re: Moon Myths - 04/11/18 11:02 AM

Take it with a grain of salt....I’m self employed and fish when I want. I don’t fish for bass but I catch my share. I fish the prime time of moon phases because I can maximize my time. Fish will bite outside of prime times...but may have to be coaxed and sometimes have commitment issues. During prime times, they will travel greater distances to kill a bait and dang near swallow it. (Distance may be 2-4 feet verses inches in stained water) I can’t say for certain that the moon directly affects the start of spawn because the bass in my ponds are more confusing than women. They started bedding in between the full/new moon of March and remained there 3-4 days regardless of weather.
Posted By: Jpurdue

Re: Moon Myths - 04/13/18 11:58 PM

Here's an article written by Rojas that directly contradicts KVD. www.scout.com article

"If you’ve been around bass fishing for a while, there’s a great chance you’ve heard enough information about moon phase to make your head spin. Some folks give it a lot of credence while others, such as Rojas, don’t get too carried away with it.

“I don’t believe moon phase matters as much as people think,” Rojas said. “When I broke the weight record in Florida, we didn’t have a full moon—we actually had no moon. Regardless, we had the biggest influx of shallow bass I’ve ever seen. One warming trend is all it takes to turn it on fire.”
Posted By: west tex angler

Re: Moon Myths - 04/14/18 12:13 AM

There are two periods each month with increased fish activity. The full moon, and the new moon, with the full moon being better. A dark moon or new moon as Dean describes, isn't bad either.
This thread is getting tedious but I'll quit by saying, Who wins the most tournaments?
Anyway, good luck and catch a bunch
Posted By: grout-scout

Re: Moon Myths - 04/14/18 02:02 AM

I heard an interview with Jason Christie today and he said the full moon triggers the first wave of spawners.
Posted By: Jay Kumar

Re: Moon Myths - 04/17/18 03:21 PM

Not sure if you all aware, but the solunar tables were invented by a ruffed grouse hunter. Well after that they were expanded to all game and fish. As a bird hunter, I have seen some correlation there, but the bottom line for me (and I believe most guys) is we will fish and hunt when we can, no matter what anything says....
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