Pass the Kool-Aid; I'm a convert...

If you take two flies, with at least one of which is smaller than an 18, tie them together with 5x tippet, add some split shot, and an indicator and what do you get?

You get a method of rigging and fishing that I have avoided using like the plague.

I don't particularly like dealing with minature flies - they are hard to see and hold. I just plain hate tying knots with 5x. When you put it all together these tandem rigs are a nightmare to cast. They tangle easily and are guaranteed to find every tree limb within a 5 mile radius...

I finally broke down and spent today fishing this type of setup, at least I fished it when I wasn't untangling it.

All I can say is WOW!! It may be painful to rig up and use, but it WORKS for trout! All the fish today took the tiny little midge dropper fly and the split shot really helped get the flies down so that you got a longer and better drift with each cast.

So, pass the Kool-Aid, I'm now a believer.

I still don't like dealing with it, but I will be using this style of tandem rig.

Welcome to the club, Rex. That's been my go-to trout setup ever since I first fished the San Juan back in the mid 1990s. It's a versatile and highly effective tactic. Next time we are together I'll show you some tricks to make the rigging easier.

I tried it once and got a painful #18 in the meat on the side of my hand; I never fish with two flies; I'm a scardy kat!!!!!-p-

Sounds wunderbar Rex! So how was it rigged? Where'd you place the split shot etc.?
I've been a hopper/dropper guy for a long time in my bluegill pursuits. I've been less successful as a trout angler. This might be my ticket.

You really want to get excited try Czech nymphing using 3 flys.Only saving grace to this is its all fairly short line.

Robin, the basic setup is not very complicated. But I'm sure there a better/more effective way to do this.

The dropper was just a small brassie style fly (since they were the smallest thing I had with me) tied 12 to 18 inches below the first fly. The distance between the two flies was determined by how many times I broke the tippet trying to tie both of the knots.

A couple of split shots were placed 9 to 12 inches above the first fly. That distance was determined by how much they slipped down the leader while fishing with them. How much weight to use? I don't have a clue. The target is to use enough to get the flies down to the bottom without using too much to sink the indicator or get stuck to the bottom. The faster the water, the more weight is needed.

The theory with the indicator is to adjust it to match the depth of the water for the run you're fishing. Your guess is as good as mine as to how to determine how deep the water is??? I just tried to set it so that I bumped a rock ever so often. By the way, I tried one of the new style Thingamabobbers with the attached plug, I liked it a whole lot. Easier to use than other indicators I've used before.

Robin, you do of course realize that taking trout fishing advise from me is basically a blind leading the blind situation???

There's a new fly fishing show on World Fishing Network called "In the Loop," featuring a kid who was recently the US Junior Fly Fishing Champion. In a recent show, he fished with a fellow competitor on several different kinds of streams near Jackson Hole. The setup his companion used with great success was a double nymph rig (two size 18 pheasant tails) and weight, but instead of a strike indicator, he had a long leader set up like this:

12 feet of 20 lb. Stren
4 feet of 15 lb Chameleon
2 foot sections of 10, 8 and 6 lb Amnesia in different colors
5x tippet

He used the Amnesia sections as his strike indicator, high-sticking so that the Amnesia sections were at or slightly above the surface of the water. He'd cast upstream, then follow the line down with the rod at a speed that allowed a slight bow to form in the Amnesia. When the bow straightened, he set the hook. He claims it is much more sensitive than a strike indicator, and picks up strikes more rapidly.

Mick, I would welcome some rigging tips. I just don't use these lighter tippit sizes very often.

I notice that may tippet collection consists of 12 lb, 10 lb, and 5X...

Rex, what kinds of casts worked for you when "throwing junk"?

Can you see softer rods being any more or less useful in this fishing?

The Belgian Cast

Let's do it, Rex. I've got lots of old tippet material in a range of sizes you can experiment with.

The less casting you do the better with this setup.

I was fishing Spillway Creek which is not very wide. So, distance is not an issue.

80+% of the casts were basically just roll casts. Let it drift down stream and then use a modified roll cast to flip it back up stream. Then I could immediately use another roll cast if needed to adjust where the fly landed to get the drift I wanted. Since the extra roll cast happened upstream it didn't seem to affect the fish.

When I did need to use a false cast, opening your loops up is necessary. A super tight loop that you need use when going for distance in the wind will just result in a really nasty knot when using wieghts and multiple flies.

And yes, the Belgian style cast works wonderfully with multiple fly rigs. I just didn't have room most of the time yesterday to use it.

The biggest casting challenge was keeping the flies out of the trees. So, the less casting the better.

I've posted this before, but midge droppers catch lots of trout if you can keep them in the water rather than trying to thread tippet through their size 24 eyelet. I finally worked something out for this situation. I tied the tippet in on the bench, and thread these through a card of corrugated cardboard about 4" x 10". I call these my midge cards, and I actually had my wife sew a pocket down the front middle of a couple of tee-shirts to hold these. When I want o tie a midge onto a larger nymph or hopper/stimulator, I just draw out a pre-tippeted midge with my hemostats. Then I tie this with a Davy knot into the bend of the lead fly. If you ignore most of what I posted as goofy, that's fine, but you really need to check out the Davy knot...a simple little figure eight thingy that is easy to tie compared to an improved clinch when adding midges.

Yes, I like the softer action rods for this style of fishing. I also like a little longer rod. My primary creek/stream rod is a 8'9" ft TFO 3 wt Finesse.

Several folks have mentioned high stick nymphing and Chec nymphing style. Both of these techniques basically involve keeping as little fly line as possible on the water during the drift. (Actually, this is an over simplification, but close enough.) I was using something similar to this and a longer rod just makes this technique easier.

I know, I'll get some disagreement from the crowd that loves short rods in small waters, but I've found a little bit longer rod to be more versitile.

Kaboboom, I was wondering if pre-tying the tippets would work. It would sure save time on the river.

Another technical solution to the tiny fly challenge is to thread them onto threaders in a C&F Midge Threader box. Then all you need to do is to insert your tippet in the threader and slip the fly down over the threader onto the tippet.

The comment "is that the smallest fly you've got?" in reference to the size 18 I had in my hand is what prompted me to tie on the smallest fly I owed. And it definately worked better.

The biggest problem I had wasn't rigging them, it was removing these things from the fish's lip. I was surprised at how hard it was to release the fish from these little bitty flies. Even using hemostats is was difficult to get the right leverage to remove these flies.

I was also surprised that everyone of the fish were hooked in the lip.

Thanks Rex; so the split shot's up front of the two tandem flies. Excellent!
I'm now also looking forward to the results of your collab with Mick.

Narrow-lipped hemostats, barbless flies, magnification -- they all help. These days, with arthritic thumbs, I've found I don't even try to handle the flies. I'll remove them from my fly box with a locked hemostat (attached to my vest or chest pack with a lanyard) and will leave the hemo locked until I have knotted the fly to the tippet and checked my knot.

Rex I know that many don't like to hear foreign stories, how ever, in South Africa fishing the Vaal river which has many fast rapids and riffles in most cases the water is thigh deep at most.
The most effective method of fishing was was with the two fly method you have mentioned. We were fishing for "small mouth yellow fish".
The indicator was set 1 and half times the depth of the water to the top fly which commonly was a #10 caddis nymph, tied to that 18 inches below was a #16 mayfly nymph. The yellow fish were similar to trout in the lies.
Having said that this was the norm and we fished all day with this catching 30 to 40 fish a day once we learned how to detect the take and to strike in time.
Many trout fisherman turned their nose up at catching yellows until they tried it and not only found it challenging but far less expensive than having to travel a couple of hundred miles to fish for expensive trout in South Africa.

Linecaster, I like hearing people's fishing stories, where ever they happened.

One and half times the actual depth makes sense for the fly to reach bottom in moving water. But at the depth you are talking about, that has got to be difficult to cast.

Rex, mostly the water was about knee deep and we had success with about a 3' distance between the top fly and indicator, we also sometimes added a split shot a few inches above the top fly if it was insufficiently weighted. The indicator had to drift down stream slower than any foam bubbles or leaves etc. The combination was usually fished upstream into pockets and also in the fast current. I used to enjoy fishing across stream on the dead drift mending as necessary.

Not so: I read the Oklahoma fishing report every week.

Unfortunately that is what foreign for many really means, but there is a world outside of the States.