Alligator Gar / Water Moccison

I've only started fishing Texas waters 2 years ago, both fresh water and salt water. I had never seen an alligator Gar until last week, weird site. Anyhow, would a Alligator Gar attack a human or be a threat in anyway?

Also, how deep do water Moccasins swim down in a lake?

To my knowledge, gar are not agressive toward us humans. Been around them fishing creeks/rivers/etc. and never (knock on wood) had one approach me.
Snakes...of the freshwater variety rarely dive more than 4-5' underwater. Their skeletal system is very thin, and can not handle the pressure.

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Gig 'Em, Aggie class of '94.

Man they can slither off after being run over though. I think the darn things are made of rubber,

Gar are not a threat to people, as far as my experience. I've wade fished the lakes of Texas for most of my life. On Sam Rayburn as a kid I had gar swimming right next to me, even had one swim between my legs. These were anywhere from 1 to 5 feet long and never showed an aggressive attitude towards me.
Gar and water moccasins will go the other way if they can.

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Philip http://www.WhiskerKitty.com

Dunno much about gar but I beg to differ about water moccasins. Moccasins are the ornryiest snakes on planet and will in fact track you and attack when it would be easier to go the other way. Most snakes I leave alone or "encourage" them to go away peacefully as they have a definite place in Ma Natures Plan... but the moccasins at Tawakoni and Lake Davy Crockett up in Fannin County are the meanest snakes I've ever encountered and huge too. And moccasins can and do bite underwater. Leave em' alone, run em' off if you have to but don't be surprised when they want to fight. The 5'8" Diamondback Rattlesnake that is on my office wall and weighed 23 lbs on a certified meat scale in Abilene without his head and fully bled out would not have been a match for the 4' moccasin that was bigger than my forearm at the elbow and crawled down my leg off the crappie basket and coiled up and tried to fight two of us rather than crawl over the side in a 14' Ouachita HD jonboat until we beat him to death with a oar and busted a leak in the bottom of the boat with the broken end of the oar and his 3" fangs buried in it. Them things scare me!!!
Ron
Ron

We always take a pellet gun with us.I figure a snake doesn't know the difference between a boat and land. Is that legal?

A buddy of mine in LA. shot several holes in his jon-boat with his .22 pistol when a moccasin fell in. He makes Jethro Clampet look like a GENIUS but you know how those crazy cajuns are. He said it would be easier to repair the boat than get the snake out!!!

Forget the pellet gun

I take my 38 loaded with snake shot

My fishing buddy is a Cop, so I don't worry with his 40cal. auto something on hand. I take the pellet gun for low noise. My question was, what would the GW do if he saw a pellet rifle in the boat?

Is it legal to carry a pellet pistol with you fishing? If so I am going to buy one.

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David

I don't know about carrying firearms with you, unless you have a CHL.

I would recommend anyone that carries a firearm to obtain a CHL (Concealed Handgun License).

I agree that water moccasins are not a snake to be taken lightly. I have waded with gar in the river and never been bothered but then they weren't big and they weren't alligator gar.
One last thing, if I'm not mistaken, Jethro was a Bodine. He was Jed's nephew-his sister,Pearl's son. But anyway, I digress...

Wiley: Man I love your sentences that are 15'long!!!

Yep. Jethro was a Bodine and Uncle Jed durn sure wouldn't claim him.

I once saw a show on the Animal Planet channel, where they tried to determine the most aggressive poisonous snake in North America. The water moccasin came in second to guess what....The Copperhead. The copperhead bit most aggressively when provoked the least.

If you have ever disturbed them during thier mating ritual with out a 12 gage shotgun you would have to disagree with the Animal Planet.

FL

[This message has been edited by falcon (edited 06-25-2003).]

The only good snake is a dead snake.

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David

Yep, He was a Bodine, I remember now!! Thanks for clearing that up!!! Sometimes I bring a BB gun when I fish my favorite creek and it is fun to shoot the snakes out of the overhanging trees and bushes. I take a 12 gauge if I am serious but it is much more challenging to shoot them with a bb gun. Also, if you miss they stick around for another shot! Shooting them (or trying to shoot them) while they are swimming is a blast. You can see where you missed and then try again, and again, and again..... It is not easy to kill them, you have to hit them right in the head. One time I killed one and put it in the boat because I wanted to skin it(it was unusually large) only to find it trying to crawl under my brothers seat about 20 min. later!! I guess it was just stunned!!!! We sure were!!!! I guess sometimes I make Jethro BODINE look like a pretty smart guy. Also now you know why the friend I referenced earlier hangs out with me, I am good for his self esteem!

Tx Weeble...My HS Senior Englis Lit teacher
used to tease me that I was lied to as kid because it was obvious that I believed that you had to pay for every punctuation mark you used and I was not going to have anybody think that I was wasting anything on such frivolous expenses as a punctuation mark but
I told her that really the problem was that I had read John Steinbeck's book "Travels With Charly" and really enjoyed his "stream of conciousness" style of writing in the story about him and is dog travelling all over the US...until she corrected me about the authors name as Jack Kerouac and that Steinbeck was already dead when the "Travels..." book was written but was credited with influencing Kerouac and the "Beat Generation" of the late 40's and early 50's. I really thought the book was dumb but she was impressed that I at least had heard of ANY author not on the summer reading list so she gave me a C- instead of flunking me as she should have!!

OBTW! drives my spellchecker crazy!!! when I type with two fingers and don't edit!!!LOLOLOL
Ron

[This message has been edited by Wiley Coyote (edited 06-26-2003).]

_Hey Yall: Having collected and Identified most all varieties of snakes in Texas as young'un...I can tell you that a Bonafied Cotton Mouth Water Moccasin is much More Aggressive, Larger and Faster than the average Copper Head!

_With that said if you see a snake in or around The Water and it's longer than 5ft it's a common Water Snake as are 99 % of the water snakes encountered in North Texas. Down around Ray Burn and Toledo Bend they are More Prevalent.

_I'm not disputing anyones word about their encounters but from what I have seen over the years here in North Texas...most peolpe are afraid of snakes and they think they are all Water Moccasins!!

_The last time I had a run in with a Real Cotton Mouth was on Texoma at the Boy Scout Camp in 1969. I have seen people shoot holes in a perfectly good Boat Hull over a Dang Common Water Snake!! What A Hoot..it was in the Water and it was Brown so it just had to be a Cotton Mouth...NOT!!!

_Unless you frequent area's around Rual Streams and less populated areas I seriously doubt you'll have a run in with a Cotton Mouth. Rattle Snakes and Copper Heads are much more the likely threat!!

_Watch Out For Snakes..But Dont Over-react Yall!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bazztex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Hey Wylie: Your writing style doesn't bother me a bit. It adds personality.

It always broke my heart in high school to write something that I had really worked hard on, that was very creative and have the teacher mark it up with red ink and say...
"Need quotation marks here", "question mark here" "run-on sentence" and etc.

I remember standing there wondering if she even read or understood it.
I like teachers more that will say "man you've got grammatical errors and typos but boy that's a good creative paper".
Maybe those days are gone with all the standardized testing they are having to do these days.

Let's turn the teaching back over to the teachers!!!

Once again, I love the way you write

I agree with Bazz on the snakes. If you can't identify snakes, don't run around killing them. Cottom mouths weren't put here for the soul purpose of killing humans.

Sad to say but I would be the fool sitting in the boat and a snake decide to drop in and blow holes in the bottom of the boat try to kill the snake. Did I mention that I do not like snakes.

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David

Well, well, well. I don't know if I've ever had the opportunity to disagree with good ol' Bazz, but here it is.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 KINDS OF SNAKES IN TEXAS
1. RATTLESNAKES
2. WATER MOCCASINS

ONLY 2, get that in your heads !!!!

I'm right there with you David, the only good snake is a dead snake.

BankBeater...

sorry buddy, but you're wrong! Texas is home to over 115 species and subspecies of snakes. The poisonous ones fall into 4 categories.

1) Rattlesnakes

2) Copperhead

3) Cottonmouth/water moccasin

4) Coral snake
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/adv/kidspage/snakes/psnakes.htm

Kelly

Kelly,
Let me try this again.

THERE ARE ONLY 2 KINDS OF SNAKES IN TEXAS, RATTLESNAKES AND WATER MOCCASINS

is that better ??

I'm scared to death of those nasty things and if it swims it's a moccasin and if it's on land it's a rattler. hehe

[This message has been edited by bankbeater (edited 06-26-2003).]

I was afraid of that!

I thought (after posting)it was in jest, but I just wanted to clarify for the other 60,000 readers on the board! Don't want anyone to get the wrong idea.....

Kelly

No problem Kelly.

To the 59,998 forum readers that share the same thoughts about snakes as myself and dlee, please take my advice

I guess this means you won't be accepting my invitation to go float tubing, eh?

Kelly that is exactly the reason I do not go float tubing. I can see my big butt in a tube ana a snake come up and try to greet me. I would probably die of a heart attack on the spot. I will leave the tubing up to you guys.

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David

Do you tube in the dead of winter ?? I've never seen a snake while I was out freezing to death duck hunting.
I might just have to give tubing a try some time. Maybe you could give me some pointers.

I may be the only one in here, but I really dig snakes--even poisonous ones. I have had a pet bull snake (often mistaken for rattlers (see Bankbeater), and twice as aggressive), a corn snake, a milk snake, and a 7-ft. long, 45 pound red-tailed boa (until my first kiddo showed up--wifey didn't really see the two as being compatible!). I have seen hundreds of snakes in the wild, but only a small handful of poisonous ones, including a few cottonmouths, copperheads, and a rattler. I think the copperhead is my favorite. It is really a beautiful animal. Even the old, cranky cottonmouth is pretty cool. They had heat-sensing technology down thousands of years before we did, which is good--they don't see very well. That's why they'll occasionally try to get into a boat--they just sense a nice, warm place to catch some sun.

That being said, I should point out that I am not a left-wing tree hugger (although I do try to leave things as pristine as I can). I am a proud member of People Eating Tasty Animals. I have no problem permanently dispatching a poisonous snake if it is a threat to me, my family/friends, or my pets (my dogs--not the snakes).

99% of the time, though, I have found that my Dad was right when he told me that a snake wants no part of a person. They will do whatever they can to avoid people. So, I try to be alert, be noisy when necessary, and give any I see a wide berth. I would rather deal with them than be overrun with rats, mice, etc. if they weren't around. My suggestion is to watch a little Jeff Corwin or Crocodile Hunter on Animal Planet. You'll probably end up thinking they are cute, cuddly, little critters and rush out to the nearest pet store to buy your own! Or, maybe not. Just check your boat insurance policy first, before you blow a hole in your new Ranger!

By the way,

Falcon, who among us does not try to bite someone who interrupts our mating ritual!

In my gar research I have read where longnose Gar have latched onto bare feet dangling from a dock and did their side to side shread on em. I've also read Alligator Gar striking individuals in rivers. Never actually killing or eating, but just mainly hitting them or scraping them to see if they are a food source. The most dangerous Gar is the Gar in the boat. They will lash about left and right with their mouths open hoping to shread/scrape something.

fishing the guad alot i dont see many close encounters with the bad snakes, even when hiking. but a thing to know is that rattlers are the most stubborn to get moving and mocc's usualy cruise away from you. coral snakes are cute, just dont let them nibble you too long or they might get you in trouble, heh...

sorry to change the subject, but is it legal to have a pellet gun with you on a boat in a public lake?

Water Moccassins are very curious snakes, as are the nonpoisonous water snakes. They will come towards lights or splashing sounds at night (looking for an easy meal I'm sure). They mean us no harm and cannot get away from us fast enough. Copperheads on the other hand prefer to remain hidden in the leaves and undergrowth or in a wood pile etc. They are rarely seen unless they are disturbed from a close range (such as stepping on). They then become most agitated and will absolutely chase you. The cottonmouth will not as a rule do this. I remember looking at a 5 X 7 black and white photograph that belonged to a friend up in Paris years ago. It was a pic. of 3 fellas holding up what had to have been a 200-300 lb. alligator gar. He claimed the picture was taken around 1950 or so (clothing kinda looked like it) and that another man had been killed while they were trying to catch it with some kind of net in the Red river. True story? I dunno.

duckcreek, has points

I remember seeing with my own eyes my Grandfather picking up a black snake about 4 feet long and popping his head off. (The snakes head not my Grandfathers)I was 10 years old at the time and we were walking to the truck after an evening of fishing on the river bank. I was in front and he said "Look what you just about stepped on". I looked down and saw the snake about half way into the tall weeds beside the path. The next thing I know he had swooped down, grabbed the snake by the tail and popped it like a bull whip. That snakes head exploded and looked like the end of badly frayed catline rope. I just about peed in my pants right there on the spot, he just laughed and said "I guess I just got more Indian in me than you do". I remember it every time I walk by the place, I may not have alot of earthly posessions, but I'd give just about everything I've got to go fishing with him just one more time. Man could he put fish in the boat.

P. S. I kill every snake I see. I don't pop their heads off, I figure that what God makes those Govt Issue 45s for.

Ya know it's funny...never been afraid of snakes. respect their space - sure. But afraid...no. But man...just let one of them big butted nasty looking dock spiders get on me and I come unglued!!! It's sends shivers down my back just thinking about it.

I'm with you fishbrain. When I was very young, my parents bought me a reptile/amphibian identification book. It was very informative and I learned early on that while you need to respect them, there is no real reason to fear snakes. As a teenager, I actually started catching rattlers so I could sell them to the area kennels. They removed their fangs and used them to train expensive hunting dogs. They paid around $20 each which was a great payday for a kid that wasn't old enough to work yet. I always used a long stick to hold their heads down while I bagged them. Living out in the sticks like I did allowed me the opportunity to encounter *lots* of snakes. One day while hiking along Onion Creek, I ran across an enormous moccasin. While I had seen numerous water moccasins before, and never had any problems, I thought it might be interesting to add him to my collection. I was easily able to capture him, but once I had ahold of his head, the fight was on. He was wriggling and coiling around my arm and doing everything he could to get loose and bite me. That is about the time I noticed the awful smell. It was completely disgusting. I finally got him loose from my arm enough that I could fling him away. I never tried to capture a moccasin after that. I also caught a coral snake one time that managed to get out of the aquarium I had him in, in the garage. Never did find him and never told my parents he managed to get loose in the garage.

[This message has been edited by FishGod (edited 06-29-2003).]

Fishgod, it's good to see someone else is "crazy" like me! Your story about the moccasin struck a cord with me. When I was a kid, probably about 12, I was bream fishing in the lake at Meridian State Park. I had a few on a stringer at my feet. At some point, I looked down and saw a fair-sized moccasin (about 4 feet) trying to swallow one of the bream. Well, hearing as I had that a snake's teeth would prevent it releasing its prey once it had begun swallowing, I confidently reached down and grabbed him firmly behind the head. Well, apparently he did not read the same books I read, because he promptly wrapped himself around my arm and released the fish. He thrashed around and proudly showed that famous white mouth and fangs. I didn't know what to do, so I walked about 1/2 mile around the lake to our campsite, where I certainly surprised my uncle. He killed the snake with a pocketknife through the head (he is not a fan of snakes!), and we unwrapped him from my arm. The thing I remember most was the stench! It absolutely reeked! I have since caught several other water snakes, such as diamonback watersnakes and yellow-bellied watersnakes, and they all seemed to have a disgusting odor. I guess it's due to the time they spend lounging around in all that nasty pond mud and sediment. I have pretty much decided that watersnakes are best observed, not handled, much like a skunk.