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Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7168022 02/13/12 10:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,569
Uncle Zeek Online Happy
aka "Dad"
Online Happy
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,569
Originally Posted By: marx88
In my boat you could not be in 3 or 4 foot waves.

the bottom line is: I wont be able to drive this boat in waters above 4 foot waves.


Dude, what part of my earlier post did you not believe?

Originally Posted By: Zeek the Greek
marx, my boat is is a bit smaller than yours and I can manage about 30 miles on a calm, FLAT day. If the waves are 2'ish, then about 12 miles is it.


Forget 3-4 foot waves, you shouldn't be thinking of anything more than 2 feet. Yes, Grand Isle would be perfect.



"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein
Artim Law Firm, PLLC
Estate planning & tax attorney
2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028
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Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7168118 02/13/12 10:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,576
lite-liner Offline
Capt. CUDA
Offline
Capt. CUDA
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,576
HOOKUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
popcorn



[Linked Image]
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: lite-liner] #7168178 02/13/12 10:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,569
Uncle Zeek Online Happy
aka "Dad"
Online Happy
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,569
Originally Posted By: lite-liner
HOOKUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
popcorn


hooked



"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein
Artim Law Firm, PLLC
Estate planning & tax attorney
2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028
972-746-0758 mobile
zac@artimlegal.com
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7168511 02/14/12 12:16 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,303
S
spiny norman Offline
Extreme Angler
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S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,303
Originally Posted By: marx88
***UPDATE*** WOW I can just imagine what it would be like to find a boat out in the gulf with nobody in it, that is terrible.


Yes it was and even though it happened a good 15 years ago, I can still see it in my minds eyes like it was yesterday. We worried about what happened to those people for the rest of the trip. As we were pulling out of town for the return trip I picked up the Port A newspaper and read where they were picked up. The GOM can go from nice to nasty in a hurry. I have seen it mirror flat with 4 foot sharks sipping a shrimper's bycatch like they were mountain trout. I've seen it with most disorganized 8 footers that beat the living &*%$ out of us. You have to be ready for anything and if you are not, you don't go.


Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7169408 02/14/12 03:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
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eyc0r (Corey C) Offline
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Posts: 603
Originally Posted By: marx88
Now that I know that I will be screwing around trying to turn into the waves if a bigger boats wake trys to come in the back of my boat.


Can't remember if this was mentioned in this thread yet, but if you are only using one anchor, make sure you don't anchor at the stern...



"Most of y'all don't get the picture unless the flash is on..."
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7169929 02/14/12 06:14 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 48,345
OldFrog Offline
TFF Guru
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Posts: 48,345
Glad you got a tiny glimpse of what could happen. 2- 3 foot seas are nothing in the Gulf. 4-5 are more common than you think...even a mile offshore. Part of what you experienced ( and there is no disrespect intended here) was caused by not having learned to properly handle your craft in various conditions.

For instance, "Following seas" are something that can swamp you quickly. It can be avoided with constant throttle and trim control if it isnt too bad....but just about the time you think you've recognized a "pattern" in the wave action....here comes a rogue wave, out of sequence...and then your stern is full of water or you center-punch the wave off the bow.

My suggestion is to sign up for a Power Squadron course if one is available nearby. You will learn the limitations of your craft and your own skills. For instance, with that craft, I'd have no issue taking it all around the Galveston area myself...but I'd be VERY aware and careful in doing so.

I wish you luck, my friend. Keep learning and keep fishing.



Now, Donald...please pick John Bolton for your running mate.
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7170325 02/14/12 01:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,576
lite-liner Offline
Capt. CUDA
Offline
Capt. CUDA
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 6,576
here's a story from this weekend. ( Ironically, from Grand Isle.)
these are seriously experienced captains in a 31' Cape Horn.

the relevance of this story to the mindset of the OP, is uncanny...........
________________________________________________________________

I really dont want to type this, b/c frankly, I'd rather not think about it, but my experience and recommendations may save one of your lives someday. So here goes.

Artie(Rudeattitude) and I left Grand Isle,LA Friday morning for an easy day trolling for wahoo approx 50 miles offshore. Forecasts were reasonably good-10 knt winds with 50% chance of light rain, then a cold front moving through Friday night--not to worry though, we'd be back 6-8 hours before the front was forecast to come through.

The day was uneventful with just a few Amberjack to show for our efforts we turned north about 2:30 to run home. It was raining lightly, and had been for a few hours. Seas were light (1-3). Roughly 1/2 way home the rain got heavier and heavier, but oddly enough the winds were getting calmer and the seas were slick. As the rain continued to get heavier, with visibility down to less than 1/4 mile, and the radar totally whited out with rain we came across an oil rig to take cover behind and ride out the rain.

As we're idling on the lee side of the rig the winds suddenly increase to 15, then 25, the 35, and within 3 or 4 minutes we're being hammered by winds in excess of 60mph steady, with gusts that were deafening. I'm doing my best to keep the boat behind the rig, as it knocks the wave height almost in half. No more than 5 minutes later, the seas have built to an extremely angry 6-8' BEHIND the rig and I'm really struggling to keep the C Monster tucked in.

In literally the blink of an eye, a huge gust(maybe 70+) picks up the bow of the boat and throws me from behind the rig out into open water----broadside! Before I can move we are crushed with a 10' wall of breaking water on the starboard side rolling the boat virtually 90 degrees. I can see nothing...

At this point, I'm commited to the fact that the boat is rolling over and my only thought are to grab the ditch bag and decide which side of the boat I heading out of. Miraculously, the boat rights itself, and I pull myself and Artie off the floor in time for the next wave---again right over the starboard side. This one didn't roll us, but broke into the boat, which is now calf deep in water, broadside to yet another 10' beaking wave.

I gather my wits, give a huge WTF to Artie and hit the throttles. Somehow, both engines sprung to life and popped us on plan instantly, shedding the majority of the water. For this 30 seconds or so I'm running beam seas in 8-10s with the wind continuing to build, we're in full panick mode. There's another rig(a really big rig) 1/4 mile away in the direction we're turned, but I know I can't sustain 1/4 mile in that beam sea, so I point the bow into the wind and spear the very first wave---again we're calf deep in water. Throttle up and brace myself for the next one, they're coming every few seconds.

I'm yelling at Artie to call the CG with our position, and let them know we are in dire straights. 3, 4 , 5 calls go unanswered. Then we try a radio check---no answer. We fight 60mph winds head on, taking every third wave over the bow. the winds would blow us nearly vertical off the top of each wave, I just know the right wave and wind gust is coming and we're going over.

As a last resort, Artie digs out the hand held VHF in the ditchbag and hails the coast gaurd. After 4 or five tries I hear the best thing I think I've ever heard--CG New Orleans. We relay our position and the nature of our situation, let them know that we are currently making 10 mph, but didn't think we could sustain any increase in the conditions, which for the last 15 minutes have only gotten worse. At no point in this ordeal could I see more than 100' in front of me---total white out. CG says to maintain radio contact, which we were able to do for approx 2 min. then we lost them.

5-10 minutes later, we hear them hailing us on the handheld and again realy our position. They monitor us every 3-4 minutes for the next 1/2 hour---conditions still the same. An all out battle to keep the boat going into the waves, slamming down the backs of 12 footers only to have the next one break over the bow, bilge pumps working overtime. Every wave I'd throttle up and by some miracle the engines were there every time. After a while, with no improvement in our situation, the CG asks if they can realease us as safe, b/c there is a capsized vessel in our area with men in the water. I surely didn't feel safe, but I wasn't in the water and realized they needed the radio channel for the rescue operation. After over an hour, the rain stopped and the winds "died" to a mere 30-35knts and left us with a seemingly more managable 6-8' sea state. At this point we tuck tail, and beat our way back at 15-20 mph for the remaining 15 miles.

We hit the pass--call the CG as they instructed to let them know we made it in. My wife and kids were standing at the dock waiting on us, knowing we came through a terrible storm, but the don't know and will never know how close we were to not returning. We were inches from rolling the boat into 55 degree water and 50 degree air temps. I've never been so tired in my life.

I'm not telling this story for sympathy or being dramatic, but to tell you what we did right and what we did wrong...

Lesson 1. there's no way to prepare for the speed in which bad stuff happens. Despite the fact that the ditch bag and liferaft was on the leaning post, I could not have grabbed it when we rolling. There's no way.

Lesson 2. never go with out an epirb---I mailed mine out last week to get the battery replaced(it expires this month) and haven't received it back yet. I was dead without it. The only time I've left the dock without it in the last 8 years--think about that for a second!

Lesson 3. MUTIPLE VHFs!!

Lesson 4. Boats can't be too big

I'd like to say we should have called the CG earlier, but it literally went from dead calm to nearly upside down in 5 minutes or less.

I should've had my kill switch on--I never leave it off, but for whatever reason I didn't put it on this time.

respect the weather--this was the most innocent looking storm I've come across.

Know that you can't survive if you're in the water in the winter--plan accordingly.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Again, not me. My 22' Hydra-Sports in the pic, although perfectly suited, outfitted & ready for big water, will NEVER be outside 35 miles off.







Last edited by lite-liner; 02/14/12 02:05 PM.

[Linked Image]
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center console with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7170389 02/14/12 02:17 PM
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chuckwagon Offline
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"The boat is a 20 ft center console 1977 Proline. I have a x15 Lowrance graph with GPS. What else do I need and is it safe to shoot out there like this?"





This is natural selection at it's finest!!

Darwin would be proud!! cheers


Last edited by chuckwagon; 02/14/12 02:25 PM.

****Sun sinking low....lines baited.....gentle south breeze blowing...you realize.........I AM! .
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center console with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7170721 02/14/12 03:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,343
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LandPirate Offline
TFF Celebrity
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Does anybody remember that guy on 2coolfishing a few years ago? He was bragging about going in any conditions in his 80ft steel hull sportfisher. Then in Nov. of that year he got caught in a cold front about 100 miles offshore. 3 large waves rolled (capsized)his boat and it went down. As I recall the first wave broke over the bow and turned him 90 degrees. That wave put a lot of water in the boat. Then two more waves from the starboard filled the boat and rolled it. He and his 6 passengers had PFD's with personal beacons and they had EPIRB. Even still it was something like 6-7 hours before a Good Samaritan picked them up. The CG never reached them. The folks that picked 'em up were on their way from LA to Corpus or something.



Last edited by LandPirate; 02/14/12 03:43 PM.

Mike
Buda/Port Aransas, TX
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center console with a johnson 140? [Re: LandPirate] #7170848 02/14/12 04:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 10,620
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chuckwagon Offline
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Originally Posted By: LandPirate
Does anybody remember that guy on 2coolfishing a few years ago? He was bragging about going in any conditions in his 80ft steel hull sportfisher.



Just as SURE as you start bragging about some prowess or possession..........something will go WRONG!! eeks



****Sun sinking low....lines baited.....gentle south breeze blowing...you realize.........I AM! .
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center console with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7170852 02/14/12 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
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TonyH. Offline
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When it goes bad it goes bad fast, I would like to add that these guys knew they were fishing pre frontal with "estimated" frontal boundary in eight hours - well DUH - they took their chances and PAID some skin for it - they were "lucky" - Offshore in small craft especially more than fourty miles out you are taking a big chance - an offshore boundary weather push from onshore and you will be battling to get in - if you don't have enough fuel to run with the swell you are even in worse shape -

I've been caught out in 20' seaworthy craft and had to idle into breaking 12' GOM swells and it ain't NO FUN --

Inexperienced boaters panic at seven footers, if you are a newbie boat handler, really you need to get salty for several years before that "supreme adventure"

We as mosquito fleeters always buddy up - or stick to nearshore structure -

It gets way rougher off Houma, and I believe a lot quicker than it does middle coast

Nowadys we do most of our offshore late September early October - most always ice cream conditions, or just rock and roll inshore biding our time for extended ideal conditions.


Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center console with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7170974 02/14/12 04:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 377
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captaincam3 Offline
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I still can't believe this is real person. This would make a primetime reality show. I hope you don't have a wife and kids Marx. You may get a whole regatta of boats to go with you for the sheer entertainment factor.



2012 Nautic Star 2200 Sport
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: lite-liner] #7172008 02/14/12 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
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Seaking Offline
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Posts: 287
Originally Posted By: lite-liner
here's a story from this weekend. ( Ironically, from Grand Isle.)
these are seriously experienced captains in a 31' Cape Horn.

the relevance of this story to the mindset of the OP, is uncanny...........
________________________________________________________________

I really dont want to type this, b/c frankly, I'd rather not think about it, but my experience and recommendations may save one of your lives someday. So here goes.

Artie(Rudeattitude) and I left Grand Isle,LA Friday morning for an easy day trolling for wahoo approx 50 miles offshore. Forecasts were reasonably good-10 knt winds with 50% chance of light rain, then a cold front moving through Friday night--not to worry though, we'd be back 6-8 hours before the front was forecast to come through.

The day was uneventful with just a few Amberjack to show for our efforts we turned north about 2:30 to run home. It was raining lightly, and had been for a few hours. Seas were light (1-3). Roughly 1/2 way home the rain got heavier and heavier, but oddly enough the winds were getting calmer and the seas were slick. As the rain continued to get heavier, with visibility down to less than 1/4 mile, and the radar totally whited out with rain we came across an oil rig to take cover behind and ride out the rain.

As we're idling on the lee side of the rig the winds suddenly increase to 15, then 25, the 35, and within 3 or 4 minutes we're being hammered by winds in excess of 60mph steady, with gusts that were deafening. I'm doing my best to keep the boat behind the rig, as it knocks the wave height almost in half. No more than 5 minutes later, the seas have built to an extremely angry 6-8' BEHIND the rig and I'm really struggling to keep the C Monster tucked in.

In literally the blink of an eye, a huge gust(maybe 70+) picks up the bow of the boat and throws me from behind the rig out into open water----broadside! Before I can move we are crushed with a 10' wall of breaking water on the starboard side rolling the boat virtually 90 degrees. I can see nothing...

At this point, I'm commited to the fact that the boat is rolling over and my only thought are to grab the ditch bag and decide which side of the boat I heading out of. Miraculously, the boat rights itself, and I pull myself and Artie off the floor in time for the next wave---again right over the starboard side. This one didn't roll us, but broke into the boat, which is now calf deep in water, broadside to yet another 10' beaking wave.

I gather my wits, give a huge WTF to Artie and hit the throttles. Somehow, both engines sprung to life and popped us on plan instantly, shedding the majority of the water. For this 30 seconds or so I'm running beam seas in 8-10s with the wind continuing to build, we're in full panick mode. There's another rig(a really big rig) 1/4 mile away in the direction we're turned, but I know I can't sustain 1/4 mile in that beam sea, so I point the bow into the wind and spear the very first wave---again we're calf deep in water. Throttle up and brace myself for the next one, they're coming every few seconds.

I'm yelling at Artie to call the CG with our position, and let them know we are in dire straights. 3, 4 , 5 calls go unanswered. Then we try a radio check---no answer. We fight 60mph winds head on, taking every third wave over the bow. the winds would blow us nearly vertical off the top of each wave, I just know the right wave and wind gust is coming and we're going over.

As a last resort, Artie digs out the hand held VHF in the ditchbag and hails the coast gaurd. After 4 or five tries I hear the best thing I think I've ever heard--CG New Orleans. We relay our position and the nature of our situation, let them know that we are currently making 10 mph, but didn't think we could sustain any increase in the conditions, which for the last 15 minutes have only gotten worse. At no point in this ordeal could I see more than 100' in front of me---total white out. CG says to maintain radio contact, which we were able to do for approx 2 min. then we lost them.

5-10 minutes later, we hear them hailing us on the handheld and again realy our position. They monitor us every 3-4 minutes for the next 1/2 hour---conditions still the same. An all out battle to keep the boat going into the waves, slamming down the backs of 12 footers only to have the next one break over the bow, bilge pumps working overtime. Every wave I'd throttle up and by some miracle the engines were there every time. After a while, with no improvement in our situation, the CG asks if they can realease us as safe, b/c there is a capsized vessel in our area with men in the water. I surely didn't feel safe, but I wasn't in the water and realized they needed the radio channel for the rescue operation. After over an hour, the rain stopped and the winds "died" to a mere 30-35knts and left us with a seemingly more managable 6-8' sea state. At this point we tuck tail, and beat our way back at 15-20 mph for the remaining 15 miles.

We hit the pass--call the CG as they instructed to let them know we made it in. My wife and kids were standing at the dock waiting on us, knowing we came through a terrible storm, but the don't know and will never know how close we were to not returning. We were inches from rolling the boat into 55 degree water and 50 degree air temps. I've never been so tired in my life.

I'm not telling this story for sympathy or being dramatic, but to tell you what we did right and what we did wrong...

Lesson 1. there's no way to prepare for the speed in which bad stuff happens. Despite the fact that the ditch bag and liferaft was on the leaning post, I could not have grabbed it when we rolling. There's no way.

Lesson 2. never go with out an epirb---I mailed mine out last week to get the battery replaced(it expires this month) and haven't received it back yet. I was dead without it. The only time I've left the dock without it in the last 8 years--think about that for a second!

Lesson 3. MUTIPLE VHFs!!

Lesson 4. Boats can't be too big

I'd like to say we should have called the CG earlier, but it literally went from dead calm to nearly upside down in 5 minutes or less.

I should've had my kill switch on--I never leave it off, but for whatever reason I didn't put it on this time.

respect the weather--this was the most innocent looking storm I've come across.

Know that you can't survive if you're in the water in the winter--plan accordingly.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Again, not me. My 22' Hydra-Sports in the pic, although perfectly suited, outfitted & ready for big water, will NEVER be outside 35 miles off.







There you go Marxx88 , a real true life survival story , and I can
guarantee you there is no exaggeration there , it can and will
happen just that quick ...


Last edited by Seaking; 02/15/12 07:58 PM.

Gene-Gene The Fishing Machine
Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: Mark's Fence Repair] #7172068 02/14/12 09:29 PM
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roachdaddy Offline
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Hell, I may never go in the ocean again in my boat after reading that....


Re: How far out can I go in a 20 foot center co knowInsole with a johnson 140? [Re: roachdaddy] #7172540 02/14/12 11:32 PM
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TheShafer Offline
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Posts: 295
Originally Posted By: roachdaddy
Hell, I may never go in the ocean again in my boat after reading that....


X2... I don't even want to open this section of the board up!



The road goes on forever and the party never ends...
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