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Jan 23rd, 2013
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2 power poles, 1 pump????? #6689310 10/01/11 06:12 AM
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Claysefus Offline OP
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Heres the deal... Got one power pole on the skeeter in the picture on my signature. I would like another pole. I cant find one reason other than the sacrifice of "deployment and retraction speed" that I cannot run 2 poles with one pump. There are 2 hydraulic lines that reverse in roles (pressure or return) when you chose the up or down motion. Any hydraulic guru will tell you that if I tee into the lines and run them to a second pole, the second pole will work in unisom with the first pole. Furthermore, I do believe they would actually stay in "time" better than if I had 2 pumps. If there were 2 pumps, the poles will eventually vary in speed, this proven by the "Law of Wear and Tear". Oil usage would not be a problem as soon as the second pole was primed. My question is this: Has anyone tried to run 2 poles on 1 pump? All the boat dealers tell me I have to run 2 pumps but with all do respect, that doesnt make any sense. At least that doesnt agree with what I know about Hydraulic Power which happens to be a pretty good bit but NOT everything by far. Its what I do for a living.

Basically Im trying to get a second pole at the cost of JUST the cost of the pole and MAYBE the bracket. Anyone with an iron bender could build that bracket in 5 minutes.

All this is going off topic. Has anyone tried it?


Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Claysefus] #6689365 10/01/11 09:52 AM
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hydrolics is hydrolics, the unit doesnt know if it is a boat or a trash compactor. what is the pump rated for? for them to run even you would have to have the same length lines to both cylinders. also, is there a high pressure bypass in the system in case one digs in before the other. may not be as criticle on a boat. I cant see why you cant run both on one pump either. good luck


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Skeeter man ZX225] #6689396 10/01/11 11:09 AM
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As far as hydraulic flow is concerned yes it would function both poles, but the pump is not designed to handle the work load of 2 poles. Not sure exactly how much performance loss you would have, but at the very least the poles would deploy 1/2 the speed as the pump puts out a certain flow rate and that would now be divided in half to operate two poles. Pressure is pressure so I am assuming that it would hold enough setting pressure to hold them in place, and not sure how the power pole works but it must have a pressure switch of some sort to shut pump off when the pole is on bottom. My biggest concern would be holding the right amount of holding pressure to both poles at the same time. Like you I'm no expert but work with it enough to get me in trouble. So take it for what it's worth. Also I wouldn't think you would need the same length lines as said above, once the lines are full and bled off it would take the same amount of fluid to deploy the poles reguardless of length, although may be more pressure loss across the longer length, but should be minimal


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: tcm68] #6689410 10/01/11 11:32 AM
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You would also need to have enough hydralic fluid in the reservoir to extend both cylinders. That might be your issue.



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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Fishspanker] #6689466 10/01/11 12:32 PM
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Fishspanker is correct. One pump's reservior is sized for only one power pole. Find a way to double your reservior's capacity and it should work, but only at half speed.


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Claysefus] #6689474 10/01/11 12:36 PM
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I belive your theory would work however one pump can only develop so much force and that might not be enough to move the poles up and down quickly or powerfully enough. My reasoning is based on the idea that engineers develop the size of a pump based on the need. So if you only need enough pressure for one pump why make it twice a powerful as need be? So I submit respectfully that your theory will work but not effeciently. If you do install it and it doesn't work you can alway buy another pump and install it at later date. Let us know how this works out for you.



Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17 ESV)

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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: SKEETER-WON23] #6689486 10/01/11 12:51 PM
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Power pole should offer a different pump that can operate two poles. Having to mount two pumps sucks.



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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: SKEETER-WON23] #6689492 10/01/11 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: SKEETER-WON23
I belive your theory would work however one pump can only develop so much force and that might not be enough to move the poles up and down quickly or powerfully enough. My reasoning is based on the idea that engineers develop the size of a pump based on the need. So if you only need enough pressure for one pump why make it twice a powerful as need be? So I submit respectfully that your theory will work but not effeciently. If you do install it and it doesn't work you can alway buy another pump and install it at later date. Let us know how this works out for you.


One pump will create the same pressure (force)in terms of PSI as two. Having two pumps won't increase the PSI force. Every pump has limits to the amount of force they can produce. It's physics.

Two things on this application are very important. 1) Volume of fluid to extend both cylinders woudl be twice a single cylinder. 2) Pump rate in terms of cc per second.

The pump rate determines how fast they will deploy. One pump should be half as fast as using separate pumps. To fully extend both cylinders requires a certain cubic centimeters of fluid. You either have that amount or you don't. It might act the way one would if it doesn't have enough fluid. It might only partially extend.



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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: StumpJumper1] #6689503 10/01/11 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: StumpJumper1
Power pole should offer a different pump that can operate two poles. Having to mount two pumps sucks.


I wonder why they haven't. Should be pretty easy. Just need a pump that would pump 2X the volume with the same pressure capabilities.



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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Fishspanker] #6689512 10/01/11 01:12 PM
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Theyh probably haven't because if you have two pole you may not want to deploy them both all the time.


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: tcm68] #6689524 10/01/11 01:22 PM
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Aaron Towner had his set up on one pump. Worked well.


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: tcm68] #6689531 10/01/11 01:26 PM
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I think your problem is going to be finding a powerpole without a pump kit. A guy was on here selling his poles the other day and he was using 1 pump. I tried to do this on my last 2 boats but have decided it works well as it is so why try to fix something thats not broke.


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: SkeeterRonnie] #6689535 10/01/11 01:29 PM
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I am very interested in this, not so much for the cost savings as the fact I do not have the room for a second pump.....

Ronnie, how do we find out how Aaron Towner did his??

Thanks,
Steve



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Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: steve hummert] #6689833 10/01/11 04:32 PM
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I can 100% tell you that oil capacity will NOT be an issue being that the cylinders are "double acting". Once the other pole is primed, the return oil from both cylinders will fill the resivoir as the oil is being used on the pressure side. This I have done on many systems in my field of work. Both poles working off of one pump WILL have the same holding force as one. This is physics. Speed is my concern. I would like to speak with this Towner guy and see how bad the speed loos actually was. Yall are probly right. In therory, the speed will be at 50%.
There also, in the hydraulic world is a remedy for the loss of speed. It's name is cylinder "regeneration". It utilizes the oil from the piston end of the cylinder back to the rod end. Thus turning the cylinders actually into a pump when in operation. I can post a therory of operation from one of my Caterpillar service manuals that explains it in detail. The only issue with incorperating a "regen" system is locating a valve required for this.

I'm hoping the speed loss is not enough to have to take this route but the very reason for my question and exploration on this issue has alot to do with the fact that there are people that say it cant be done.......

If I can locate another pole w/o the pump, I will set it up and let us all know what happens.


Re: 2 power poles, 1 pump????? [Re: Claysefus] #6689836 10/01/11 04:34 PM
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And YES, by all means Power Pole should offer 1 pump for this issue. It would just make good sense.


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