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bad news for the Pelican haters #6547255 08/22/11 07:51 PM
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Carver Offline OP
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http://www.kayakfishingmagazine.net/gear...ler-review.html

I had heard rumors of this last year among some fellow pattern makers. It actually looks like a pretty well thought out yak. Comes standard with a rudder also. It is also available in a 15' with a standard rudder. retail on the 13 is $999 rigged for fishing with rudder installed and an upgrade seat. I didn't see a price on the 15.

You know Academy will discount once in a while also if they pick this part of the Pelican line up. REI is the only retailer I have found and they don't have ANY in stock or show any coming in right now.

Tight lines, Phill

Last edited by Carver; 08/23/11 11:13 PM. Reason: corrections

Phill Pittman

www.dallascnc.com new website for product development

www.mariner-kayaks.com Best kayak source in Texas
Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Carver] #6547449 08/22/11 08:38 PM
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Mark Ray Offline
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meh

Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Mark Ray] #6547509 08/22/11 08:50 PM
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Daveg99 Offline
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I wonder why they dont use the pelican brand on it?

Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Mark Ray] #6547518 08/22/11 08:51 PM
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Neumie Offline
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Where did you see that price? I'm curious because the Elie version (exact same kayak as the Pelican) is around $999 with rudder. I find it hard to believe that it's $400 cheaper for Pelican kayak.

Last edited by Neumie aka "Know it All"; 08/22/11 08:52 PM.

"Water is life's matter and matrix, mother and medium. There is no life without water." -Albert Szent-Gyorgyi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." - Heraclitus
Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Neumie] #6547590 08/22/11 09:08 PM
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Neumie Offline
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Elie Gulf 120XE
This will be available Spring 2012. No price yet.


"Water is life's matter and matrix, mother and medium. There is no life without water." -Albert Szent-Gyorgyi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." - Heraclitus
Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Neumie] #6549463 08/23/11 04:39 AM
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JJ4MEL Online Content
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Very interesting!! I would like to see actual reviews once it is released. Get the perspective from TFF yak fishermen.

Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: JJ4MEL] #6550714 08/23/11 04:42 PM
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Fish ZoMbiE Offline
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Lol! Layout has never been the issue IMO. Is this one also a 2 piece clam shell yak? If so I don't want one cause u can get better new and used yaks for very little more. Single piece or plastic injected kayak is the way to go


Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Fish ZoMbiE] #6551983 08/23/11 09:13 PM
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Mark Ray Offline
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Maximize that picture of it overturned so you can see the hull (nice shape to the hull btw)
it looks like a clamshell to me. which is a big "no way" for my money.

Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Mark Ray] #6552559 08/23/11 11:11 PM
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Carver Offline OP
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I got the $599 price from REI, but looking on the web I think he was pricing one of the other Elie sinks rather than what I asked for. I don't see anything other than $999 on the web either. Sorry, I trusted a salesman.

Below is a quote from the Elie site about their hull construction. It appears that the upper and bottom halves are thermoformed at the same time while being heat fused together by the process. While they are owned by Pelican, the hull is quite different and well proven if you believe what is said of them.

QUOTE:
""" THE DISTINCTIVE TST TECHNOLOGY

We are the only North American kayak manufacturer to use TST technology.
Over many years, we have been perfecting the art of Twin Sheet Thermoforming (TST), a high-precision technology that shapes the deck and hull and fuses them together under extreme heat and pressure. This technology also enables us to produce two tone coloured kayaks, similar in appearence to composite kayaks but at much more aggressive pricing.

This and other key technologies and innovations have contributed to us becoming one of the largest kayak manufacturers in the world.

POLY-XRTM

Merge our TST technology and our exclusive POLY-XRTM material to get an ultra resistant boat

Used in all Elie kayaks, three-layer Poly-XRTM material is 30% more rigid than standard polyethylene, thanks to an advanced resin in the top layer. Our designers use less material to deliver the same incredible durability resulting in a lighter and stiffer kayak that is easier to paddle, maneuver, even lift on top of your car. """

there are pics here
http://www.eliesport.com/about-us/technologies-and-materials/tst-and-polyxr.html

FZ: " u can get better new and used yaks for very little more. Single piece or plastic injected kayak is the way to go"

No such thing as a "plastic injected" yak (that I am aware of since an injection mold of that size would run 7 figures and be almost impossible to inject). I think you are referring to roto-molded yaks that made from hundreds/thousands of little beads or chunks of plastic melted together in a tumbling form shaped like a kayak. That is why roto-molded yaks are famous for hull problems at inside corners and scupper tube joints and for bubbless in the hull surfaes. Thermoformed yaks are pretty much "better" (read as stronger, more uniform wall thickness and shape definition and retention) construction than even the best roto-molded ones, they are ( usually ) just much heavier.

If the hull design likes to tip, it is not because of the construction method, it is simply bad design. It will be unstable no matter how it is constructed.

If these guys are vacuum and/or blow forming both hulls and fusing them with heat (melting them together) it will probably make for a very high quality construction method that will also be far more resistant to the oil canning found on our yaks from even slight pressure while storing or moving. It will not have the bubbles inherent in roto-molded yaks either.

I was looking forward to paddling one until I realized the price point was more than what I thought. Still a step up for Pelican to acquire such a well seasoned company. Maybe there will be a technology design absorption by the parent company.

Just my 2cents worth. Tight lines, Phill


Phill Pittman

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www.mariner-kayaks.com Best kayak source in Texas
Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Carver] #6554345 08/24/11 01:20 PM
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Mark Ray Offline
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i hope they do a better job fusing them together than they do on the pelican 2 man boats.

Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Carver] #6554357 08/24/11 01:21 PM
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Fish ZoMbiE Offline
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Carver,

I believe the term roto-molded is correct.









Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Fish ZoMbiE] #6555521 08/24/11 05:59 PM
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TG Canoes and Kayaks Offline
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Pelicans in the past have used polyethylene clamshelled together, as many have already mentioned. This is a cheaper way of molding a yak, but allows for a weak seam, mainly because Pelican didn't use enough plastic and the hull would flex all over, weakening and eventually breaking the seams.

Now, clamshell forming, properly known as thermoforming, is used on several different yaks already, notibly the Diablo Paddlesport yaks and the Kajun Kayak brands. They use ABS, which is a stiffer but heavier material than poly. This gives the yaks a very smooth, shiny finish.

The main, real world difference between the Thermo ABS and the Pelican clamshell poly is that the Thermo ABS is much stiffer, which eliminates hull flex and therefore eliminates the seam issues. Now, because of its stiffness, Thermo ABS boats have better abrasion resistance (think oyster bars or limestone river beds), but lack the blunt force trauma integrity of a poly yak. A poly yak (Hobie, Wilderness, OK, Native etc) will hit a rock and flex, absorbing the shock, and then bounce back out, ideally. A Thermo ABS yak won't flex much in order to absorb the hit, and will be more readily susceptible to hull damage.

The Tarpon 120 Ultralight is made out of Trylon using the Thermo process. This material is even stiffer than Thermo ABS, which allows for a much thinner hull, which decreases weight. However, you must take care of this yak as you would a composite boat.

There's nothing more stiff than a composite yak. But for all the bonuses a composite offers, it gives up large amounts of blunt force trauma durability.

This Elie yak claims this about their material: "Used in all Elie kayaks, three-layer Poly-XRTM material is 30% more rigid than standard polyethylene, thanks to an advanced resin in the top layer. Our designers use less material to deliver the same incredible durability resulting in a lighter and stiffer kayak..." The lighter and stiffer you become, the more closely you resemble composites.

So in a long-winded fashion, the important thing to remember is that the stiffer and lighter a Thermo yak becomes, the more cosely it resembles composites, and the more susceptible it is to blunt force trauma. As a general rule of thumb, you want to avoid Thermo yaks on rivers, where rapids and fallen trees are commonplace.




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Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: TG Canoes and Kayaks] #6555804 08/24/11 07:16 PM
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exracer250 - "Charlie" Offline
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Awesome explanation TG, thanks!



Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: exracer250 - "Charlie"] #6557515 08/25/11 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: exracer250 - "Charlie"
Awesome explanation TG, thanks!

X2. The next time I have a question about kayak design I'm going to hit up TG!!!



And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
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Re: bad news for the Pelican haters [Re: Shaun Russell] #6558031 08/25/11 04:05 AM
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B_Rod Offline
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Originally Posted By: Shaun Russell
Originally Posted By: exracer250 - "Charlie"
Awesome explanation TG, thanks!

X2. The next time I have a question about kayak design I'm going to hit up TG!!!

+3

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