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Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) #5359032 09/30/10 02:20 PM
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Doug Vahrenberg Offline OP
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I stole this from my buddy TMike from another forum and was so good showing Humminbird's Fish ID Feature that I wanted to share for those that like the FISH ID Feature this shows Humminbird's ability to help you and tells you where the fish are:

--------------------------

I used to be one that wasn't a fan of fish ID. Still not in a lot of cases but in schooling fish applications I find it very important in vertical fishing. If your fishing in the middle of a big school of fish and your using say dual beam or whatever how do you tell what fish is closest to your offering but still get a "wide" view of whats under your boat. Essentially your just jigging blindly in a school of fish versus targeting a specific fish.. Bottom line is if your spoon is not at the right depth of a nearby fish it's usually not going to be as productive as being at the right depth of a nearby fish.


Use this image below for example. Orange fish are in 200khz ie narrow 20 degree beam and the other blue fish are more "off to the side" of the boat ie 83khz aka 60 degree beam . So this tells you which arch to fish for with your spoon amongst a big school of fish. I have found it to be extremely helpful in this application and surprisingly accurate that I can try to turn on a specific arch that is closest to my spoon which also makes sure that I am working my spoon at the right depth level.


Just one of the advantages that I have found favorable to FISH ID..



Here is the excerpt from the manual regarding FISH ID..





Website: www.dougvahrenberg.com
Sponsored by: Skeeter, Yamaha, MinnKota, Humminbird, LakeMaster, Transducer Shield & Saver, LuckyCraft, Dobyns Rods, Daiwa, Dave's Custom Baits, Omega Custom Tackle, Browning Eyewear, Elite Tungsten Co., Angler Innovations, Massey Ferguson.


Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Doug Vahrenberg] #5371685 10/04/10 03:11 PM
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Mo Offline
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What is the difference in cone width at say 20 ft ?

I have always heard 1/3 depth , so less than 7 ft. But is
this for the narrow or wide view?

I don't buy the fishing for a specific arch bit,
the boat is usually moving , the fish are almost always moving.
What you are seeing is history , the fact that it is an arch
tells me it is moving.( and out of the beam) A stationary fish and boat would produce a straight line , Right ?

Now keeping the jig at the right depth is important, but that
should not be hard to do when they are stacked from 10 to
30 feet.

I want to thank you for all your posts and pics, I have
been using my 1197 for a couple of years, still learning.

Mo

Last edited by Mo; 10/04/10 03:11 PM.


MY BACKYARD , 20,000 ACRES , NO MOWING smile
Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Mo] #5372130 10/04/10 05:15 PM
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Triton Mike Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mo
What is the difference in cone width at say 20 ft ?

I have always heard 1/3 depth , so less than 7 ft. But is
this for the narrow or wide view?


Depth in this image is 30ft. This is Dual Beam ie uses both narrow and wide (200khz 20degrees and 83khz 60 degrees). Bottom coverage at 30ft 200khz is 10ft ie 1/3 depth. 83khz is 30ft coverage 1 x Depth. So essentially your talking 10ft longer than the average bass boat (20ft).

Never mind the photo shop tree in this image to illustrate the beam coverage in dual beam mode.



Originally Posted By: Mo
I don't buy the fishing for a specific arch bit,
the boat is usually moving , the fish are almost always moving.


Boat isn't moving at all in this image 0.0mph this is strictly vertical fishing.


Originally Posted By: Mo
What you are seeing is history , the fact that it is an arch tells me it is moving.( and out of the beam) A stationary fish and boat would produce a straight line , Right ?

Now keeping the jig at the right depth is important, but that
should not be hard to do when they are stacked from 10 to
30 feet.

I want to thank you for all your posts and pics, I have
been using my 1197 for a couple of years, still learning.

Mo


Mo, You are correct the fish are moving. In this instance the majority of the school was off to the side of the boat hence very few fish in the 20 degree cone.. So with 30ft of coverage you can very well be 15ft from the fish with your spoon depending on the shape of the school. You'd be SURPRISED how hard it is to catch fish when you "THINK" they are that thick directly under the boat when in actuality they are off to the side by 10ft or more. I've had fish so thick on my graph I couldn't see how deep my spoon was and couldn't get bit, but was I fishing exactly where the fish were?

Take this image for example which happens a GOOD bit more than you think it does. Have you ever vertical fished and your sonar was covered with fish but couldn't get bit? I have and OFTEN. But with Side Imaging coupled with FISH ID you can find out exactly what side of the boat the fish are on and at what depth. This is just one of many instances (school of fish is in red). Keep in mind only TWO fish are directly under the boat. 30 plus fish are off to the side and beyond...



There is a lot more to it than just bouncing a spoon around on a sonar.

Last edited by Triton Mike; 10/04/10 05:16 PM.
Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Triton Mike] #5372518 10/04/10 06:46 PM
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Mo Offline
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I can see the advantage of knowing what is in the small
cone vs the large cone. I still hate fish symbols.
Perhaps they could set the color palette to display
different arches different colors in the two frequencies?

But you still don't know if they are in front of the boat,
behind the boat, right or left of the boat with looking
at your sidescan.

I think for my purposes , I will stay with the narrow beam
to see what is under my boat and the sidescan to figure out
which way I need to move.

Thanks for the reply

good luck

MO



MY BACKYARD , 20,000 ACRES , NO MOWING smile
Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Mo] #5373111 10/04/10 09:18 PM
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I just haven't been able to tune my HB fishfinder to display fish arches at all, certainly nothing to the magnitude of what is in the pics. I guess I keep experimenting...


Woody
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2014 Sun Tracker DLX 18
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Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: CedarCreekWoody] #5374470 10/05/10 03:44 AM
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Woody, we are in the same boat.

I have a 20' pontoon with a Lorance LCX37 color unit on the stern and a Eagle 480 on the bow. I spent 5 hours this afternoon just cruising around the lake checking out the bottom and looking for fish.

I set both of these units up every way possible and have not yet seen one clearly defined fish arch. When I turn on Fish ID they show fish pictures, but when I turn it off, nothing resembles a arch. I don't have a clue if I was seeing fish or clutter. When I run over a brush pile, one unit will show fish and the other shows only the pile profile. One will show clutter, the other nothing. Normally the Eagle 480 will show much better detail even though it is a much less expensive unit. I ran thru several creek channels today where the front Eagle showed schools of fish in the channel but the Lo LCX37 picked up nothing.

I still like the units for locating structure, cover, and depth, but am totally disillusioned(sp) by the fish finder ap.

Do any of them actually work?



Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Eastexn] #5374601 10/05/10 05:09 AM
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I have ran finders with the fish crackers for many years and have actually found the fish crackers on the SI units to be more of a positive then a negative I have asked Doug about this very topic and he didn't condem the fish crackers but said his main reason for not using them is he can actually put a size of the fish to the size of the arch. I personally am not good enough to size the fish to the display and more then likely will continue to take advantage of todays advanced technology and use the fish crackers. All of this is of course just my opinion!!!!


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Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: chuck44l] #5374663 10/05/10 08:59 AM
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Mo, You are correct you won't know fwd's or backwards in either cone but if you have Side Imaging on the trolling motor you know exactly where they are if you spin the trolling motor you can look behind you, in front of you and to the sides in a instance.

Here is a prime example of NO fish on sonar but you can see them on Down Imaging (wide beam DI is wider than the 60 degree sonar beam) and Side Imaging. In this instance DI tells me depth and SI tells me what side of the boat.

Here is an example .



But with sonar ONLY you do know that if your fishing directly below the boat your CLOSER to the orange fish than the blue ones LOL. Thats the whole point of my post. I'm sure Humminbird can paint arches different colors but gee it doesn't get any easier than deciphering blue icons vs orange ones.. Like I stated in my opening statement I have never been a fan of Fish ID. But I I do like FISH ID in a schooling situation split screened with Side Imaging while on the trolling motor. With those 2 screens you have everything you need to be dangerous with a spoon. Try the fish ID again if you get in a schooling situation..


Having said that I am in the thought process that MORE information (dual beam) is better than narrow beam or none at all. So more bottom coverage tells me more information. It's up to me to find out how to take advantage of that extra bit of information and use it to put more fish in the boat by using Side Imaging, Down Imaging, GPS, SI on Trolling motor turning the foot pedal to see exactly where the fish are in relation to the boat like in the image above. The only thing I will use 20 degree beam for by itself is to get more accurate gps waypoints of cover/structure.

Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: CedarCreekWoody] #5374665 10/05/10 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: CedarCreekWoody
I just haven't been able to tune my HB fishfinder to display fish arches at all, certainly nothing to the magnitude of what is in the pics. I guess I keep experimenting...


Formula for finding Fish Arches made easy.

1. Put your sonar on DUAL BEAM
2. If your in <20ft of water Split fire should be CLEAR
If your in >20ft of water Split Fire should be MAX
3. Turn up sensitivity

Do keep in mind that speed determines if you have a arch or not. If your not moving fast your arches will be a straight line. If your boat is moving or the fish are moving you will get more arches or if the fish is on the edge of the beam. The faster the boat or fish is moving the more hook in the arch and the farther the fish is on the edge of the cone the more the hook in the arch.

See image below.



Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Triton Mike] #5374979 10/05/10 01:22 PM
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Thanks Mike.

I'm beginning to see the problem. Both of my units have only a 200 KHz Tr and usually, when seriously looking for fish I am idling in about 20 FOW. In that scenario I am only looking at fish in a 7' water column and they would not show up as arches at that speed unless they were in the small outside edges of the cone.

Given that info, Am I in need of a dual transducer, or a HB Quad unit.

I have been using depth finders since the days of the flashers and have never seen this explained before. Thanks for the education.

74 years old and not too old to learn or try something new.



Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Triton Mike] #5375308 10/05/10 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Triton Mike







thanks Mike, that is the best demonstration of the
value of SI on the trolling motor I have seen.
I may have to break down and do it.

MO



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Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Mo] #5375762 10/05/10 04:44 PM
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Great post Mike and Doug Thanks for sharing.


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Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: chuck44l] #5375990 10/05/10 05:51 PM
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Eastexn I feel your pain. My unit has dual cones, and I think I've tried every speed from slow to ultra, at every boat speed, with many levels of max-fire or clean mode or sensitity or whatever, and darn if I can make it draw cones. I guess I just need hands on assistance.


Woody
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2014 Sun Tracker DLX 18
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Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: CedarCreekWoody] #5377830 10/06/10 02:03 AM
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I think I will just set it to Fish Id and forget it. At least I will see something I can understand.

I appreciate all of the help by the guys on this forum. It does appear you guys know way more about these things than the manufacturers. Their instruction manuals suck.They have been making these things for over 40 years now and one would think they would know how to write instructions.

For those of us who live out here in the bondocks there is no hands on assistance.



Re: Humminbird Fish ID (By TMike) [Re: Eastexn] #5379241 10/06/10 02:52 PM
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Yeah, I know what you mean, I keep going back to the fish ID too -- but I've not given up yet.


Woody
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