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Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money #14524788 11/04/22 12:43 PM
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�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14524789 11/04/22 12:43 PM
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Without watching, is this about churches?

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14525301 11/04/22 07:00 PM
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I didn't watch it either and I choose not to post on his threads because I think he's doing what this video says not to do.

So, do you make money posting videos from You Tube and if so, please look in a mirror.


Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14525321 11/04/22 07:22 PM
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He's made $3 of the views of this video.

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: grout-scout] #14525858 11/05/22 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Without watching, is this about churches?


It's more generally about 501C3s (non-profits) that are continually asking for money, but claiming to be "Christian" as if giving to these groups is some kind of religious duty. This certainly includes churches, but extends to other groups also.


�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: Allison1] #14525862 11/05/22 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Allison1
I didn't watch it either and I choose not to post on his threads because I think he's doing what this video says not to do.

So, do you make money posting videos from You Tube and if so, please look in a mirror.



None of my platforms are monetized, and Rednecks for Jesus neither solicits nor accepts donations. If you send me a PM saying "I'd like to give Rednecks for Jesus $100,000 to support your ministry efforts" I would politely decline.

But my point in the video is not that good causes should _never_ ask for money - only that much care is needed not to push requests for support out of balance - to the point of offensive levels where asking for money seems to rank higher in priority than whatever other work the group is supposed to be doing.


�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14525984 11/05/22 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MathGeek
Originally Posted by Allison1
I didn't watch it either and I choose not to post on his threads because I think he's doing what this video says not to do.

So, do you make money posting videos from You Tube and if so, please look in a mirror.



None of my platforms are monetized, and Rednecks for Jesus neither solicits nor accepts donations. If you send me a PM saying "I'd like to give Rednecks for Jesus $100,000 to support your ministry efforts" I would politely decline.

But my point in the video is not that good causes should _never_ ask for money - only that much care is needed not to push requests for support out of balance - to the point of offensive levels where asking for money seems to rank higher in priority than whatever other work the group is supposed to be doing.

Well said I understand 💯what you are saying.

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: grandbassslayer] #14526436 11/06/22 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Originally Posted by MathGeek
Originally Posted by Allison1
I didn't watch it either and I choose not to post on his threads because I think he's doing what this video says not to do.

So, do you make money posting videos from You Tube and if so, please look in a mirror.



None of my platforms are monetized, and Rednecks for Jesus neither solicits nor accepts donations. If you send me a PM saying "I'd like to give Rednecks for Jesus $100,000 to support your ministry efforts" I would politely decline.

But my point in the video is not that good causes should _never_ ask for money - only that much care is needed not to push requests for support out of balance - to the point of offensive levels where asking for money seems to rank higher in priority than whatever other work the group is supposed to be doing.

Well said I understand 💯what you are saying.


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Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14527514 11/07/22 10:54 AM
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Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing the Audience for Cash
There are times when it is an act of faith for committed followers of Jesus to stretch their ministry giving. Why is this message preached so much more often than the act of faith for those who earn their living from the gospel to stop squeezing their audience for cash and keep their petitions about finances to their prayer closets? Is God so deaf to your prayers that your pleas to heaven are inadequate? Do you really NEED to spend 5-10 minutes in every big Sunday meeting squeezing the audience for cash?

Post-COVID pleas for cash from most ministries are significantly out of balance, and it's a big turn-off to most rednecks, those who were poorly served by purported shepherds during COVID, to those who are regarded as backsliders, and to those who may not know Jesus yet. If you think there are enough unsaved people in a given audience that there needs to be a big focus on the gospel, then that's probably the wrong audience to be passing the hat to. A wise older pastor would always say at his church offering, “If you don't know Jesus yet, please don't give. Let the Lord give you something first.” He also always said, “God's work done in God's way will not want for God's supply.”

Take this balance test. The New Testament gives approximately equal weight to four money topics. 1) Benevolence – care for widows and orphans and Christian brethren in need 2) Caring for one's own household and family – aging parents and such 3) Paying debts and taxes and 4) Giving for ministry purposes. In your ministry, do you give as much time to each of the other three money topics as you focus on giving for ministry? And be sure to include time taking the offering as time focused on ministry giving.

A second balance test. The New Testament also gives more emphasis to the topics of sexual purity and idolatry as it gives to ministry giving. Do you cringe at the thought of talking about sexual purity or idolatry for more time than you spend on ministry giving? Would you consider that out of balance? Why can you trust God that less talk about sexual purity will be sufficient, but not less time focused on ministry giving?

Your ministry may need to prayerfully consider reducing expenses. If wise counsel for the sheep is to cut expenses during times of reduced revenue, then isn't this wise counsel for the shepherds also? First, I recommend looking hard at cutting your facility expenses. What facilities can you relinquish and possibly meet shepherding needs by sharing facilities with others? What can your shepherding task do without? I say cut facilities first, because the emphasis of ministry giving in the New Testament is always on caring for people in ministry rather than in paying expenses for facilities. Your ministry expenses for people should greatly exceed your total expenses for facilities, especially in times of hardship. Put people first.

Depending on the big picture, some staff may need to be cut loose as well. I'd start with immediate termination of ministers with ongoing porn habits. Most surveys of people in ministry reveal that over half have ongoing porn habits. Jesus does not need or want unrepentant perverts caring for his sheep, and there is no need for you to keep squeezing the flock for more money to keep paying them. Cut them off. Tithes and offerings in God's church are not a welfare program for perverts in ministry. Ask God to expose the ministers in your church with unrepentant porn habits, and cut them off immediately. Spiritually speaking, ministers with unrepentant porn problems are not assets at all - they are huge liabilities. Purging them will do much to win the trust of the sheep in your efforts to care for them.


�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14527650 11/07/22 02:27 PM
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Math geek Id like your opinion on our church budget. Next year it’s 3.2 mil, 51% of that is personnel. Do you think that’s too heavy on personnel?

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: grandbassslayer] #14528333 11/08/22 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Math geek Id like your opinion on our church budget. Next year it’s 3.2 mil, 51% of that is personnel. Do you think that’s too heavy on personnel?


3.2 mil probably covers lots of stuff. The above post does make some suggestions about what to cut if paying the bills every month is forcing the preacher to constantly squeeze the audience for cash. If the cash squeeze isn't happening, then the ship may be floating fine and need no change of course.

If the preacher is constantly squeezing the audience for cash, unless you're on the payroll or the board, the easiest path is probably to find a new church. At 3.2 mil, there is probably fat somewhere, but churches that size can look much different from each other. What I see a lot post-COVID is many churches are no longer filling their seating anywhere near the weekly attendance that they used to, so they end up facilities heavy. Are those empty seats now attending online, or are they gone? If they are still attending, but onine shepherding might require comparable staff levels to pre-COVID.

Church management is about allocating the resources to meet the needs of the sheep, not the dreams of the shepherds. But zero tolerance for unrepentant porn among the shepherds, over time can reduce personnel costs among the pervs who really aren't helping at all anyway.


�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: grandbassslayer] #14528338 11/08/22 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Math geek Id like your opinion on our church budget. Next year it’s 3.2 mil, 51% of that is personnel. Do you think that’s too heavy on personnel?


Wow! I obviously don't know the details but it sounds like the path of many charities where they lose focus on their initial primary objective and trade it for focus on fund raising.

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: ReelBusy] #14528536 11/08/22 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ReelBusy
Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Math geek Id like your opinion on our church budget. Next year it’s 3.2 mil, 51% of that is personnel. Do you think that’s too heavy on personnel?


Wow! I obviously don't know the details but it sounds like the path of many charities where they lose focus on their initial primary objective and trade it for focus on fund raising.

Oh it’s a really large church, I rarely hear the money topic come up. It’s not a name it claim it prosperity gospel.

Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: ReelBusy] #14528790 11/08/22 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ReelBusy
Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Math geek Id like your opinion on our church budget. Next year it’s 3.2 mil, 51% of that is personnel. Do you think that’s too heavy on personnel?


Wow! I obviously don't know the details but it sounds like the path of many charities where they lose focus on their initial primary objective and trade it for focus on fund raising.


I'm not sure how a church spending 51% on personnel indicates a loss of focus on their primary objective. (Usually a church's primary objectives include preaching the gospel and caring for people in their audience.) Preaching and pastoring are labor-intensive activities, and I'm more comfortable with budgets reflecting most of the money being spent on personnel than most of the money being spent on facilities, since in many cases the more expensive facilities are occupied < 10 hours per week.

I'd need more information before leaning toward a concern that fundraising might be more important than their "primary objective."


�Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?" - The Messiah
Re: Jesus 101- Stop Squeezing Your Audience for Money [Re: MathGeek] #14529261 11/08/22 09:34 PM
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I served on the personnel committee at our church mid 90's. small rural Baptist church. on a good Sunday 150-200 attendees. We had a Pastor, Senior citizen pastor, Youth Minister, minister of music. 2 secretaries, and paid a custodian to clean once a week.

reminder this is 1995

Pastor, salary $80,000 plus housing, utilities, vehicle, vehicle allowance, medical ins.
SR. pastor. $45,000 utilities, vehicle allowance, medical
Youth Minister, $40,000 housing, utilities, vehicle allowance, medical
Music Minister, $25,000 plus unquestioned budget
Secretaries, $20,000 each Medical
Custodian $500 a month

After hearing all this I felt the calling too...


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