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Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: T Gutierrez] #14430978 07/26/22 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by T Gutierrez
So did they warden say no crime had been committed?
Unfortunately I'm thinking until they complete the act and take the cash they have not committed a crime.
Kind of like shop lifting. If they put the package of steak down there pants they are just carrying it around until they have walk out the door of the business they have not stolen anything?



There are laws posted on page 1 of this thread. A crime was committed by trying to alter the results of the tournament by obtaining fish not caught during the course of said tournament. It is not up for interpretation like shop lifting a top sirloin.


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Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14430988 07/26/22 09:57 PM
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Has anyone called the Capt that decided to drop the charges or called the Bigwig of the Game Wardens that Doug posted the name and number of? If so, how did the conversation go?

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: RedRaider3933] #14430999 07/26/22 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by T Gutierrez
So did they warden say no crime had been committed?
Unfortunately I'm thinking until they complete the act and take the cash they have not committed a crime.
Kind of like shop lifting. If they put the package of steak down there pants they are just carrying it around until they have walk out the door of the business they have not stolen anything?



There are laws posted on page 1 of this thread. A crime was committed by trying to alter the results of the tournament by obtaining fish not caught during the course of said tournament. It is not up for interpretation like shop lifting a top sirloin.



The fact that the kid never tried to weigh in the fish could harm the case against him. They should have let him weigh the fish and then confronted him. If the full charge would stick it would be a class A misdemeanor with up to a year in jail as punishment. However, I think they would have to file this case as an attempted case. An "attempted" case has a punishment level one level below the actual commitment of the crime. Therefore, I think this case would be filed as a class B with a punishment level of up to 6 months in jail. If the young men are 17 they are adults and cannot be prosecuted as juveniles. If they are only 16 they are juveniles. It is disappointing that an officer worked hard to get the truth of a case and then superiors refuse to file the case. It could be possible that the supervisor called the DA's office and the DA said they would not accept charges. It would be nice to know for sure if it was the supervisor or the DA that made the decision.

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: RKT] #14431005 07/26/22 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RKT
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by T Gutierrez
So did they warden say no crime had been committed?
Unfortunately I'm thinking until they complete the act and take the cash they have not committed a crime.
Kind of like shop lifting. If they put the package of steak down there pants they are just carrying it around until they have walk out the door of the business they have not stolen anything?



There are laws posted on page 1 of this thread. A crime was committed by trying to alter the results of the tournament by obtaining fish not caught during the course of said tournament. It is not up for interpretation like shop lifting a top sirloin.



The fact that the kid never tried to weigh in the fish could harm the case against him. They should have let him weigh the fish and then confronted him. If the full charge would stick it would be a class A misdemeanor with up to a year in jail as punishment. However, I think they would have to file this case as an attempted case. An "attempted" case has a punishment level one level below the actual commitment of the crime. Therefore, I think this case would be filed as a class B with a punishment level of up to 6 months in jail. If the young men are 17 they are adults and cannot be prosecuted as juveniles. If they are only 16 they are juveniles. It is disappointing that an officer worked hard to get the truth of a case and then superiors refuse to file the case. It could be possible that the supervisor called the DA's office and the DA said they would not accept charges. It would be nice to know for sure if it was the supervisor or the DA that made the decision.



I thought both kids admitted to their intentions?

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: T Gutierrez] #14431019 07/26/22 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by T Gutierrez
So did they warden say no crime had been committed?
Unfortunately I'm thinking until they complete the act and take the cash they have not committed a crime.
Kind of like shop lifting. If they put the package of steak down there pants they are just carrying it around until they have walk out the door of the business they have not stolen anything?



That’s not true at all. Case law says if you conceal items in that manner you are committing theft even before walking out the store.

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431023 07/26/22 10:24 PM
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Should have let them weigh the fish at end of tournament then let them know they were disqualified

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: Mark Perry] #14431026 07/26/22 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Perry
Originally Posted by RKT
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by T Gutierrez
So did they warden say no crime had been committed?
Unfortunately I'm thinking until they complete the act and take the cash they have not committed a crime.
Kind of like shop lifting. If they put the package of steak down there pants they are just carrying it around until they have walk out the door of the business they have not stolen anything?



There are laws posted on page 1 of this thread. A crime was committed by trying to alter the results of the tournament by obtaining fish not caught during the course of said tournament. It is not up for interpretation like shop lifting a top sirloin.



The fact that the kid never tried to weigh in the fish could harm the case against him. They should have let him weigh the fish and then confronted him. If the full charge would stick it would be a class A misdemeanor with up to a year in jail as punishment. However, I think they would have to file this case as an attempted case. An "attempted" case has a punishment level one level below the actual commitment of the crime. Therefore, I think this case would be filed as a class B with a punishment level of up to 6 months in jail. If the young men are 17 they are adults and cannot be prosecuted as juveniles. If they are only 16 they are juveniles. It is disappointing that an officer worked hard to get the truth of a case and then superiors refuse to file the case. It could be possible that the supervisor called the DA's office and the DA said they would not accept charges. It would be nice to know for sure if it was the supervisor or the DA that made the decision.



I thought both kids admitted to their intentions?



You can have the intent without committing. If you get stopped before committing the crime a lot of times it will only be tried as "attempted". There are multiple elements to an offense. One is the "mens rea" which is the intent and another is the "actus reus" which is the act or committing the crime. If you have the mens rea and try to commit the crime without successfully doing so you then usually only have an attempted crime. Some laws do have it written in that even attempting to commit the crime is committing the crime.

There was an East Texas County Sheriff Lieutenant who was patrolling the mall parking lot on horseback in the 90's (with a trustee) who called his ex-girlfriend (also his wife's sister) to buy drugs while patrolling. The ex-girlfriend then notified DPS about his request and they recorded her phone conversations with the Lieutenant. They set up a deal for her to get and deliver illegal substances to him in the parking lot. When she showed up with the drugs and he was about to hand her the money for them the DPS officer swooped in and arrested him for possession of the drugs which was a state jail felony. Before it got to court the DA had to reduce the charges to attempted possession of a controlled substance because he never gave the money or received the drugs. He had the intent to get the drugs and use them with an inmate but never actually took possession of the drugs. I also think the DPS trooper was the boyfriend of the Lieutenants sister.

Last edited by RKT; 07/26/22 10:30 PM.
Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431031 07/26/22 10:37 PM
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Yes they were wrong for cheating, and yes they should have consequences.. but I think it is very poor taste to post their names and tell people where they can find pictures to put names to faces.... These are minors...and there are already people talking about how they should have their [censored] whooped and looking for them on social media. None of us are judge and jury. The media doesn't even report the names of minors in most circumstances. We should be more responsible.

Tight lines guys.

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431036 07/26/22 10:44 PM
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An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor, except that if the offense occurred during a tournament in which any prize or combination of prizes to be awarded for any one category for which an award is given, whether the prize or prizes are to an individual or a team, is worth $10,000 or more in money or goods, the offense is a felony of the third degree.



Since it was most likely a misdemeanor, maybe that's what the citations were for?
Can the evidence be presented to a district attorney for prosecution?


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Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431037 07/26/22 10:44 PM
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Since they are kids, and obviously the law isn't going to press charges, maybe there are other ways around this if they ever want to compete again. Make them earn competition again. So clubs can make up their own dollar amount that they want paid back to the club/trail.

Let's say 5k is the amount they want paid back. Let them compete, if they are in the winnings, every dollar goes back to them paying off that amount. If they are not in the winnings, thank you for your entry fee but you have to win up to the amount owed to the club for cheating, if they ever want to cut a check again for their own pocket. Just an idea and maybe will give them a way to earn back the respect among the tournament trails.

In the event they are caught cheating again, then forever banned and at that point should be prosecuted. They would be under some form of contract with both parties agreeable upon the stipulations and cheating would be enforcement to prosecute further. Think of it as a probationary time frame strictly based on how well they could fish and actually earn enough winnings in each tournament, in an HONEST WAY.

Last edited by flashman252; 07/26/22 10:45 PM.
Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431038 07/26/22 10:46 PM
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This is the Texas Fishing Forum what else we got to talk about. Game warden knew this was gonna be worse than any punishment he could imagine.

Last edited by David Welcher; 07/26/22 10:48 PM.
Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431045 07/26/22 10:53 PM
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Did they admit to cheating the week before if so, did they offer to pay back the money?


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Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: JoshMathes] #14431049 07/26/22 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JoshMathes
I am curious to know what laws were broke and what the citation may have been? We all know cheating is wrong and they should probably be banned from any of your events for the future, but is it truly illegal, and if so, what punishment would fit the crime? What laws did they break, I am assuming that if they had multiple baskets of fish then would they only be able to give the boys a citation for over the possession limit?


Cheating is cheating. Obviously you do not care about right and wrong. Pathetic.

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: dkmore] #14431050 07/26/22 11:00 PM
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Can’t believe anyone would attempt to defend these little turds. Obviously not a one time thing and they would have kept on doing it; but “they are kids and we shouldn’t post their names”…. bang

Re: Cheaters on Eagle Mountain [Re: Jake Blood] #14431051 07/26/22 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake Blood
Yes they were wrong for cheating, and yes they should have consequences.. but I think it is very poor taste to post their names and tell people where they can find pictures to put names to faces.... These are minors...and there are already people talking about how they should have their [censored] whooped and looking for them on social media. None of us are judge and jury. The media doesn't even report the names of minors in most circumstances. We should be more responsible.

Tight lines guys.


Totally agree.


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