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Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Jonah's View] #14397036 06/17/22 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?

agreed... it is a public proclamation of ones association with Christ following salvation... it's why childhood baptism is nothing more than washing a baby in a religious ritual - sure it is a public proclamation of the parents association with Christ by committing their child to the Lord, but the child never through their own "free will" chose Christ as savior - make sense?...children are covered by a clause in the Law known as "the age of accountability" many arguments on what age that is, in the Jewish culture that age is 13 - when a child becomes an adult - i don't know...LOL, but if a child dies before the age of accountability they go right to the presence of God this belief has its origins from a passage in the Old Test in the book of 1st or 2nd Samual where David lost a child conceived in sin, and he tells those who were with him I will be reunited with the child in heaven - now back on track... as an adult once you have made the decision for Christ and become Born Again, the ritual of "Believers baptism" is not for salvation as that issue has already been settled - it's done in obedience and as a public declaration of your association with Christ... you are counting yourself dead to this world publicly - with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ... another way to put it is it is "fruit of the Spirit" we do not do it to be saved, we do it because we are saved... breakdance

Well said




Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Bigbob_FTW] #14397040 06/17/22 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?

agreed... it is a public proclamation of ones association with Christ following salvation... it's why childhood baptism is nothing more than washing a baby in a religious ritual - sure it is a public proclamation of the parents association with Christ by committing their child to the Lord, but the child never through their own "free will" chose Christ as savior - make sense?...children are covered by a clause in the Law known as "the age of accountability" many arguments on what age that is, in the Jewish culture that age is 13 - when a child becomes an adult - i don't know...LOL, but if a child dies before the age of accountability they go right to the presence of God this belief has its origins from a passage in the Old Test in the book of 1st or 2nd Samual where David lost a child conceived in sin, and he tells those who were with him I will be reunited with the child in heaven - now back on track... as an adult once you have made the decision for Christ and become Born Again, the ritual of "Believers baptism" is not for salvation as that issue has already been settled - it's done in obedience and as a public declaration of your association with Christ... you are counting yourself dead to this world publicly - with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ... another way to put it is it is "fruit of the Spirit" we do not do it to be saved, we do it because we are saved... breakdance


We have conformation. Its at 14. You become a full member of the church and are welcomed to the lords table.

we do confirmation in 6th grade so around 12, but the Lord's table is always open to all who believe in God, regardless of age or denomination.


If God is your co-pilot then change seats



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Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Bigbob_FTW] #14399917 06/21/22 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?


Required? God will determine our salvation, not us (and thankfully, as we could never do enough). But the scriptures I read - I am not sure I can feel comfortable with that conclusion - just to list a few:


1 Peter 3:21
Romans 6:3-7
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:37-38
John 3:5

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Indianation65] #14399937 06/21/22 01:55 PM
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Again, thanks for all the previous responses and dialogue.

I was just on the phone with a friend discussing Genesis 6, but I'm not going to get into it here.

There should be a new forum section in the Texas Fishing Forum for those who WANT to discuss such matters.

A 5th section of the OT called "The Bible," or "Christian Lifestyles," or "All Things Spiritual," or simply put, "Believers."

...+++

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Indianation65] #14399976 06/21/22 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Indianation65
Again, thanks for all the previous responses and dialogue.

I was just on the phone with a friend discussing Genesis 6, but I'm not going to get into it here.

There should be a new forum section in the Texas Fishing Forum for those who WANT to discuss such matters.

A 5th section of the OT called "The Bible," or "Christian Lifestyles," or "All Things Spiritual," or simply put, "Believers."

...+++

thumb

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Indianation65] #14399996 06/21/22 02:47 PM
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I was an altar boy from the 2nd grade through high school, and went back and helped at several masses/funerals while I was in college.

Even then I wouldn't describe myself as devout, I kind of felt obligated to the parish and that I would be letting those people down if i quit.

Then I married an extremely devout Catholic.


I've sat in Church just about every Sunday and holy day of obligation for the last 38 years surrounded by solid Christians, adulterers, thieves, racists, etc.

My dad is atheist and is probably the most Christ-like, selfless person I know, as is my former boss/mentor in my industry.


Many believe you only make it to heaven based on your "beliefs" and not your actions.

I just figure if my dad's and mentor's Christ-like actions aren't good enough to get them in Heaven, it doesn't sound like a place I want to be.



I will also say all the years I have sat in a Catholic Church, I have NEVER heard a Priest Criticize another denomination. I have been in a few other Churches where the minister criticized the "Fake Christian" Church down the road. I really don't get it.

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Jonah's View] #14400022 06/21/22 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?

agreed... it is a public proclamation of ones association with Christ following salvation... it's why childhood baptism is nothing more than washing a baby in a religious ritual - sure it is a public proclamation of the parents association with Christ by committing their child to the Lord, but the child never through their own "free will" chose Christ as savior - make sense?...children are covered by a clause in the Law known as "the age of accountability" many arguments on what age that is, in the Jewish culture that age is 13 - when a child becomes an adult - i don't know...LOL, but if a child dies before the age of accountability they go right to the presence of God this belief has its origins from a passage in the Old Test in the book of 1st or 2nd Samual where David lost a child conceived in sin, and he tells those who were with him I will be reunited with the child in heaven - now back on track... as an adult once you have made the decision for Christ and become Born Again, the ritual of "Believers baptism" is not for salvation as that issue has already been settled - it's done in obedience and as a public declaration of your association with Christ... you are counting yourself dead to this world publicly - with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ... another way to put it is it is "fruit of the Spirit" we do not do it to be saved, we do it because we are saved... breakdance


I agree with what you wrote. I have one thing to add if you don't get baptize is it because you are ashamed or were you really not saved? I don't think you absolutely have to be baptized to be saved, see man on the cross with Jesus, I just think if you chose not to be are you really saved if you are ashamed of Jesus., if you have the way to be baptized

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: sprigsss] #14400024 06/21/22 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sprigsss
I was an altar boy from the 2nd grade through high school, and went back and helped at several masses/funerals while I was in college.

Even then I wouldn't describe myself as devout, I kind of felt obligated to the parish and that I would be letting those people down if i quit.

Then I married an extremely devout Catholic.


I've sat in Church just about every Sunday and holy day of obligation for the last 38 years surrounded by solid Christians, adulterers, thieves, racists, etc.

My dad is atheist and is probably the most Christ-like, selfless person I know, as is my former boss/mentor in my industry.


Many believe you only make it to heaven based on your "beliefs" and not your actions.

I just figure if my dad's and mentor's Christ-like actions aren't good enough to get them in Heaven, it doesn't sound like a place I want to be.



I will also say all the years I have sat in a Catholic Church, I have NEVER heard a Priest Criticize another denomination. I have been in a few other Churches where the minister criticized the "Fake Christian" Church down the road. I really don't get it.

It’s sad but you have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Just a thought to leave you with. If God is holy and demands only the blameless could be in his presence- would your Dad and former boss qualify?

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: grandbassslayer] #14400136 06/21/22 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer

It’s sad but you have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Just a thought to leave you with. If God is holy and demands only the blameless could be in his presence- would your Dad and former boss qualify?


I don't think anyone would qualify, but I believe both men have never made a selfish decision that I'm aware of and have always done what is best for those around them. Can't say the same about many that have preached to me and them over the years on why they were going to hell.

I consider myself agnostic, but I believe religion and believing are beautiful things. Thats why I will always support my wife. But its like almost everything else, there has to be some balance. I don't much care to be around the overly judgmental type that claim they are only doing so for my or others' own good.

My childhood priest is in prison right now, but he believes. Am I to believe he has a better shot at getting into heaven than my dad, simply because he believes? I have a hard time accepting those beliefs. Religion is one of the topics that I love to discuss, but will never try to convince someone else they are wrong about their beliefs. Its personal and sacred and I will always respect that.

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: bassfishinglawyer] #14400183 06/21/22 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bassfishinglawyer
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?


Required? God will determine our salvation, not us (and thankfully, as we could never do enough). But the scriptures I read - I am not sure I can feel comfortable with that conclusion - just to list a few:


1 Peter 3:21
Romans 6:3-7
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:37-38
John 3:5




forgive me... but we determine our salvation, Jesus/God has already provided the Way with His finished work at the cross, when we accept His free gift by His promises, on the authority of the written Word of God you can know that you are saved... it is the cults that have blasphemed the Word of God that makes their followers believe that they will never know that they are saved and must continue to do more to make sure they are accepted by God and He will save them in the end...and that leads me into my second point... it is real important to take all scripture in context, read several verses up and down to understand what God is saying in His Word...by taking scripture out of context cults and ism's have been formed... remember what John the Baptist said in Mark 1:8 " I have baptized you with water, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit "... nowhere in the Word of God does it say you have to be baptized in water to be saved, but at the time of conversion you are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus, it is a spiritual thing - happens at the spiritual level, not the fleshly world... thumb


Maranatha !
Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Jonah's View] #14400210 06/21/22 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by bassfishinglawyer
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?


Required? God will determine our salvation, not us (and thankfully, as we could never do enough). But the scriptures I read - I am not sure I can feel comfortable with that conclusion - just to list a few:


1 Peter 3:21
Romans 6:3-7
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:37-38
John 3:5




forgive me... but we determine our salvation, Jesus/God has already provided the Way with His finished work at the cross, when we accept His free gift by His promises, on the authority of the written Word of God you can know that you are saved... it is the cults that have blasphemed the Word of God that makes their followers believe that they will never know that they are saved and must continue to do more to make sure they are accepted by God and He will save them in the end...and that leads me into my second point... it is real important to take all scripture in context, read several verses up and down to understand what God is saying in His Word...by taking scripture out of context cults and ism's have been formed... remember what John the Baptist said in Mark 1:8 " I have baptized you with water, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit "... nowhere in the Word of God does it say you have to be baptized in water to be saved, but at the time of conversion you are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus, it is a spiritual thing - happens at the spiritual level, not the fleshly world... thumb


God can save whom he wishes. He is sovereign. But he has given us a path and He is faithful. Unfortunately, Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven.



But I agree with context. And when I read the above verses in context I believe it is part of the process of salvation. I do not believe it is THE part, but A part, made clear by those passages, which I am not going to ignore for my own convenience.

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Jonah's View] #14400431 06/21/22 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by bassfishinglawyer
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?


Required? God will determine our salvation, not us (and thankfully, as we could never do enough). But the scriptures I read - I am not sure I can feel comfortable with that conclusion - just to list a few:


1 Peter 3:21
Romans 6:3-7
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:37-38
John 3:5




forgive me... but we determine our salvation, Jesus/God has already provided the Way with His finished work at the cross, when we accept His free gift by His promises, on the authority of the written Word of God you can know that you are saved... it is the cults that have blasphemed the Word of God that makes their followers believe that they will never know that they are saved and must continue to do more to make sure they are accepted by God and He will save them in the end...and that leads me into my second point... it is real important to take all scripture in context, read several verses up and down to understand what God is saying in His Word...by taking scripture out of context cults and ism's have been formed... remember what John the Baptist said in Mark 1:8 " I have baptized you with water, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit "... nowhere in the Word of God does it say you have to be baptized in water to be saved, but at the time of conversion you are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus, it is a spiritual thing - happens at the spiritual level, not the fleshly world... thumb

Kudos to you for understanding the baptism by the Holy Spirit. Most in Christendom are so caught up in works they fail to see that.

Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: grandbassslayer] #14400437 06/21/22 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Originally Posted by Jonah's View
Originally Posted by bassfishinglawyer
Originally Posted by Bigbob_FTW
I've come to believe baptism isn't required for salvation. Thoughts?


Required? God will determine our salvation, not us (and thankfully, as we could never do enough). But the scriptures I read - I am not sure I can feel comfortable with that conclusion - just to list a few:


1 Peter 3:21
Romans 6:3-7
Mark 16:16
Acts 2:37-38
John 3:5




forgive me... but we determine our salvation, Jesus/God has already provided the Way with His finished work at the cross, when we accept His free gift by His promises, on the authority of the written Word of God you can know that you are saved... it is the cults that have blasphemed the Word of God that makes their followers believe that they will never know that they are saved and must continue to do more to make sure they are accepted by God and He will save them in the end...and that leads me into my second point... it is real important to take all scripture in context, read several verses up and down to understand what God is saying in His Word...by taking scripture out of context cults and ism's have been formed... remember what John the Baptist said in Mark 1:8 " I have baptized you with water, He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit "... nowhere in the Word of God does it say you have to be baptized in water to be saved, but at the time of conversion you are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ Jesus, it is a spiritual thing - happens at the spiritual level, not the fleshly world... thumb

Kudos to you for understanding the baptism by the Holy Spirit. Most in Christendom are so caught up in works they fail to see that.


This is why I have no problem with infant baptism.


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Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Indianation65] #14400467 06/21/22 09:01 PM
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Infant baptism, sprinkling, immersion, etc. I tend to view all of them the same, just religious ceremonies with no real significance. I don’t mean that disrespectfully to anyone as I have been water baptized myself. Our church calls it “believers baptism”, and outward confession of your inward faith- for which I see no real biblical mandate.

Last edited by grandbassslayer; 06/21/22 09:02 PM.
Re: Question for the Christian Men [Re: Indianation65] #14400482 06/21/22 09:17 PM
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In the first "sermon" ("preached" by Peter on the Day of Pentecost), when the crowd asked what were they to do to be saved (they were pricked at the heart for having Jesus crucified), Peter answered "Repent and be baptized... for the forgiveness of your sins...".

The church was started when "those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."

I do not see how an infant could repent. But if someone has studied the scriptures and determined this is what is taught, then who am I to argue?

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