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Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor #14289251 02/18/22 11:28 PM
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Box Fish Hero Offline OP
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BEWARE, this is prolly gonna be a LONG post!

With the ongoing Conservation conversation, thought I would reach out to a Regional Fisheries Supervisor that I know here in OK and see what he had to say about current management of Bluecat in my area. He's not the Supervisor over my region of the state but our relationship goes back closer to our college days. Just got off the phone, 28 minutes asking questions and listening to what he had to say about the current state of things related to Bluecat in OK (its not TX, but not far away either).

I will start with one of the BIGGEST takeaways I gathered from the talk....There's not enough information available! Like it or not, Catfishing isn't bait, I mean BASS fishing. These state agencies have limited resources and limited staff, and like anything else, there's an old guard and the "new guys." Good news for catfisherman, the newer breed of biologist are more willing to experiment and try new management practices. As I have seen posted here and the same message I try to get across to people I talk to, we have to get our concerns in front of the people that are deciding where the departments are focusing their effort and resources, its a limited pool and if this wheel don't squeak, it won't get greased.

Next up, on the surface, one that will stand the hair up on a few guys! JUG fisherman might just be a Trophy Fisherman's BEST friend!! While it wouldn't be the typical "cut EVERY fish" type of line runner, but a new breed of jug fisherman, one that would possibly be benefiting from a HIGHER creel limit?? Gotta refer back to the paragraph above about need MORE info but this was just insight coming from 1 Biologist, but plenty of information out there and his instinct from now on 20 years in professional fisheries management, selective, possibly more liberal harvest of small fish from a more successful method like jugs or trot lines may be a necessary part of the equation to produce more big fish, remove some of the strain on the forage base so the remaining fish can grow faster and larger with more available food and space. None of this is a new idea, I've already read the same type of info here on TFF.

So a fun fact, I've said before TX is usually 20+ years ahead of OK in managing wildlife resources, BUT here in OK we have had the 1 fish over 30" per person per day law on bluecat (statewide, all waters) for somewhere around 10+ years and our limit on bluecat is 15 per person. Coming from a state biologist who did say he was not FULLY updated on the current data collected in relation to that rule and the current impact it may/may not be having, but his current understanding, after 10ish years of being on the books, we don't even know if the rule is helping or hurting our fisheries! There are lots, Lots, LOTS of variables to consider when deciding which fish need protected and which need harvested. Obviously there are many environmental conditions, flow patters, surface area, habitat, temperature, the list goes on, then you factor in forage base and invasive species and their evolving impacts to a particular fish species, then weigh all that against what you believe to be the best management practices for the other fish species in a particular body of water, you begin to see just exactly how broad this "management" scheme has to be!

Genetics: Now this was an area that particularly peaked my interest and one that he spoke to on his own without me asking for answers. So, there is absolutely information out there about fish in the same lake with varying genetic characteristics, researchers know they are subject to the same natural factors, and some fish just flat outperform others... its something in their genetic makeup, but our conversation didn't have time for him to tell me everything he knew on the subject. If your into catching BIG fish and wanna keep doing it, either find the information about superior genetics or make the easy/safe decision to turn all the toads loose and they will continue to pass those genes to future generations.

I'm sure the same conversations happen in Wildlife Department's across the country, but I did hear straight from a tenured professional that public interest and public comment are the driving factors in deciding where resources are funneled. We all know anything that can be tied to revenue generation is gonna consistently find itself higher on the "to do list" than those that only cost money..... I can't think of a good way to say it other than recruiting more anglers into catfishing will create more revenue and ultimately more intense management of the resource will follow.

Fisheries management is a VERY complex task and the communities served are very diverse. Each one of us likely has some varying desire about how to see our fisheries managed. I know passion runs deep on all sides, and I know some people just like to attack and complain, but most of what I see here on TFF is informative and constructive, that's why I choose to participate here rather than social media platforms. I follow multiple types of wildlife management because I spend a lot of time hunting and fishing for multiple species. There is a wealth of information out there, keep reading, keep meeting new people and keep carrying the conversation forward. The more you read and learn the more you will see the hurdles that need overcome in resource management, you'll see the gaps that need filled in before comprehensive management can be effective. We likely all consider ourselves more passionate and committed than the next Joe, and many people are quick to tell you "this will fix the problem" but the further you dig into management of large fisheries in particular, you will see what I was told by a high level Biologist today "Each time we complete a research project, we come away with WAY more QUESTIONS than answers." I'll assume most of this post was not "news" to the majority of the people in this community, just thought someone may be looking for something to read on their phone while sitting on the Throne! Don't take my word for gospel, I'm just a dumb Okie, keep digging and learning. If your the guy that figures it all out, drop a post on TFF, we are all experts and will redirect you in the areas your off point :-]

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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14289253 02/18/22 11:31 PM
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Nice read. thumb


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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14289838 02/19/22 07:49 PM
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Very informative. Thanks for sharing... I need some time to study all this. A lot of information in this post...


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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14290073 02/20/22 02:05 AM
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z289sec Offline
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I jug fish too, but I still only keep eater size fish. And only if I'm needing to stock the freezer. Otherwise, they still go back healthy. I also only leave mine out for a few hours.

Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14290104 02/20/22 02:36 AM
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Bluecat Bob Offline
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Thanks for sharing that.

The first section around jugging initially seems counter intuitive to me, although I’m sure it works.

Someone suggested in the other thread about making Catfish game fish. Seemed like a good idea to this layman.


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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Bluecat Bob] #14290132 02/20/22 03:26 AM
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Tom Baty Offline
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Originally Posted by Bluecat Bob
Thanks for sharing that.

The first section around jugging initially seems counter intuitive to me, although I’m sure it works.

Someone suggested in the other thread about making Catfish game fish. Seemed like a good idea to this layman.


When I studied these aquatic ecosystems back in college, it always helped me to think of the carrying capacity of lakes/rivers in terms of pounds of fish rather than numbers. Most people are used to thinking of mammals, that need to reach a certain size or they die. For example, a cattleman can run x number of cattle on y acres of pasture. Fish are relatively plastic, though, and their size adapts to the environment (within reason). So it's better to think of it in terms of x pounds of fish per y cubic feet/yards/etc. of water.
I saw the earlier thread about trophy blue cats and actually wondered if the presence of stripers, hybrids, and sand bass had had any overall effect on the size structure of blue cats. Temperate bass are voracious predators of shad, a shared resource with blues. Tawakoni has all three, but still turns out big blues. Certainly trophy blues eat sand bass. Maybe it's a tradeoff? These are the kinds of things that I'd just love to know.


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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14290236 02/20/22 12:33 PM
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So true that fisheries management is way more complex than people realize. I personally believe that there are some lakes that will never produce trophy blues no matter how they're managed simply because the surrounding watershed just doesn't have the right nutrients. Kind of like big bass at Lake Fork. We see that with deer as well. Certain areas produce more quality bucks than others based on so many factors. I'm a firm believer in keeping some eaters and letting the big ones go. I grew up fishing a small private pond. When I was a kid the landowner used to tell me to keep everything I caught under 2 pounds. I didn't get to fish there for many years but when I got to go back, the fishing was phenomenal. The pond was only about 10 acres but it had ten pound bass and 3 pound crappie. I think we should all keep more eaters on our lakes. Great conversation to keep having and like the old saying goes, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". We all know, based on politics, the vocal minority can easily overshadow the silent majority....

Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14290316 02/20/22 02:38 PM
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cheers good read thumb


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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Tom Baty] #14290606 02/20/22 08:13 PM
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Many of our fisheries have a much higher carrying capacity than their current numbers. Fishing pressure and harvest take care of that for the most part. There isn’t a single lake in Texas or the United States that has been overpopulated with big Blues which unbalances the fishery. There are rivers where they are considered invasive but that’s a completely different discussion. Big Blues take a long time to reach their potential and when they are removed they are not quickly replaced like other species.

Lakes with lots of Bass like Hybrids or Stiper are some of the best fisheries for Trophy Bluecats. Big Blues eat Striper and Sandbass in great numbers which is one of the reasons Texoma and Twok have giant fish. Lewisville used to be stocked with Striper and when it was it had bigger Blues as well. The exception are the clear water canyon lakes. There is definitely a balance when it comes to fishery management but most lakes are managed to allow for fishable populations rather than growing trophy sized fish. It’s all the money coming in from guys wanting to catch big fish that is driving the change in regulations for protecting big fish. As trophy fishing has grown there is an influx of cash coming in from all the revenue generated by anglers buying all the gear, boats, rods, tackle, electronics, and fishing licenses. TP&W sees this and is trying to accommodate what the anglers want. All the companies that are benefiting from all the trophy anglers have stated to put their weight behind protecting big fish as well.

Last edited by 🍀El Gato Azul🍀; 02/20/22 08:15 PM.

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Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14290965 02/21/22 03:03 AM
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/tylerp...504-406e-5f48-bbd9-da95fa7165e9.amp.html

No idea if that link will work, there’s a look back at the information the TPWD Biologist over Tawakoni had to say when the rule changes were happening on Twk. Several interesting things I took from that, one of which being the 30” size limit being more based off sociology than science.

Another being “The whole idea for a change was brought to the department by fishermen interested in protecting the trophy aspect who had become concerned about increased harvest of the rare big fish”."They felt there was an issue. We hadn't shown any evidence of a biological problem, but we were concerned because it is a unique fishery. There is the potential that if you don't provide additional protection it will be impacted," said Kevin Storey, TPWD Inland Fisheries district biologist over Tawakoni.”

Whatever you take away from reading the article, the good news is as El Gato stated, catfishig as an industry is generating enough revenue in TX, regulators are willing to get involved, even if the science isn’t perfect yet, the willingness to be proactive from a management perspective is present.

Re: Conversation with Regional Fisheries Supervisor [Re: Box Fish Hero] #14291128 02/21/22 12:46 PM
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skeetmaster Offline
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That link didn't work for me but I did find the article. Here's another link if anyone needs it:

https://tylerpaper.com/texas_all_ou...a58d504-406e-5f48-bbd9-da95fa7165e9.html

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