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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#13949655
04/06/21 06:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 328
Stratos2011
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Posts: 328 |
Wow, that doesn't seem like it would be very visible if going head on at that boat. IMO
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949660
04/06/21 06:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12,147
tmd11111
TFF Guru
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Nice thing about lakes by me is nobody is around to enforce it. Bad this is nobodys around to enforce it.
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949670
04/06/21 06:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,376
SteezMacQueen
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Wow, that doesn't seem like it would be very visible if going head on at that boat. IMO They work really well and exceed all the USCG regs for visibility, color, brightness, and applicability. Mine are so bright they light up the bank when fishing
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949680
04/06/21 06:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 328
Stratos2011
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Has anyone on here ever been stopped by a game warden for have these type of nav lights? So I'm really curious, has anyone been stopped with these type of red and green before?
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949682
04/06/21 06:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 8,591
Smurfs
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949764
04/06/21 07:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,704
Douglas J
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As far as the red and green, i see tons of boats with these done. There were some posts a while back about these and I am not sure they ever came away with whether they were a legal replacement or not for the pole. It may have been answered and I just don't remember. Maybe one of the wardens will see and chime in. I spoke with the 2nd in command of TPWD boating enforcement (they have a department for this) in Austin concerning the rubrail solution. I was told "nope" not legal, and that they were starting to see this as an issue. If you examine the "pole" solution, you'll see that there is a divider that exactly lines up with the centerline of the bow. To each side, the port/starboard shields insure that the color for each side is visible from the centerline and to the side for exactly 112.5 degrees - 12.5 degrees past the point of being abeam the other vessel, no more, no less. This is the USCG regulation that Texas has adopted. Lighting in the rubrail has no "blinder" or shield to control its' visible angle from other vessels; it likely depends on the curvature of the bow, and where the installer places it. Regulations also state that all marine lighting should be USCG approved. I doubt that the seller of the lighting strips offered such approval. This isn't just a matter of enforcement legality either. Imagine the outcome of litigation if an operator with such illegal lighting were involved in a nighttime boating accident. How are these on the side of new Rangers legal? I believe there is something in the law about if they are OEM or after market
#MFGA
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949980
04/06/21 10:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724
Flippin-Out
TFF Team Angler
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"How are these on the side of new Rangers legal?"
"I believe there is something in the law about if they are OEM or after market"
I'll answer both of the follow up questions. The USCG has a "self-certification" program/process that boat manufacturers can join wherein they insure that the boat they build meets all pertinent law/regulation. The program includes the necessity to document material sourcing (as approved material, such as USCG-approved lighting) and to document test procedures & results needed to insure that the final product meets the applicable requirements. At any time, the USCG inspection teams may visit a manufacturer to check that all is in order for the program. About 3-4 years ago, one manufacturer was using a lamp housing similar to the one shown on the Ranger that wasn't an approved item, and they got caught via surprise inspection. They had to do a recall program to fix the problem, and the CG did a re-education/reminder campaign to the boat manufacturing industry to remind builders of their responsibility. So, even OEM isn't always right, but may be caught and a correction forced. Likewise, a properly installed after-market device that has USCG approval can be legal, but BOTH criteria must be met: 1) material is USCG approved, and 2) properly installed. A USCG certified light fixture is still illegal if improperly installed. Example: good fixture, but installed in such a way that it is not visible through, and only through, the 112.5 degree range called for in the regulations.
Now, as to that side-light used on the Ranger. Those are quite popular on larger vessels. On really big vessels, they look more like a Coleman lantern on each side of the boat! A proper sidelight installation limits its' angle of visibility in the particular installation undertaken to the 112.5 degree range, but that range must land in just the right angle position with respect to the centerline of the boat. Ranger does not randomly place these fixtures on the side of the hull. In the case of Ranger, that style fixture is designed with the assumption and requirement that it will be installed in an orientation that is on a line parallel to the hull's centerline. Ranger, in turn, builds a pocket into the mold for the hull cap where the fixture will be mounted, typically by following an engineering drawing provided by the company that provides the fixture . When the fixture is mounted in that customized recess in the cap of the hull, the result will be that the lamp is visible from straight ahead, to the side of the boat, abeam, and 12.5 degrees past that abeam point. This is closely controlled by mold design, and THAT is how that lamp fixture can be legal. The problem isn't that the fixture is on the side of the boat; the challenge is that a fixture must be placed such that the correct visible viewing range is met, and certainly Ranger and many other manufacturers have the ability to insure the associated requirements are met.
However, if you peel the backing off a section of non-USCG approved red or green LED light strip, and slap it on a curved bow of a boat, you have no idea how far past abeam that LED strip might be visible. If you get it too far back on the curve of the bow, it might also not be sufficiently visible to someone dead ahead as required by regulation. So, placement of that strip means a LOT. Move to a different boat with a different compound curve radius designed into it's bow, and you can get an entirely different range of degrees of visibility, aside from the fact that the LED strip is unlikely to be USCG approved.
BTW, I have yet to see any "LED strip kit" offered that claims USCG approval.
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13949986
04/06/21 10:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 11,008
BigDozer66
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2016 Ranger RT188 Charcoal Metallic Dual Console 2017 Yamaha 115 VMAX SHO (VF115LA) SS Prop Minn Kota Ultrex i-Pilot Link 45" 80 lb. Humminbird Helix 10 Mega SI BalZout Console Humminbird Helix 10 Mega SI BBT Bow Mount Trick Step
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#13950027
04/06/21 11:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,376
SteezMacQueen
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BTW, I have yet to see any "LED strip kit" offered that claims USCG approval.
They are not legal. But, IMO, they work just as effectively and look cool. I asked a game warden about them too! I was told he was happy if they worked and had the colors on the correct sides. It appears that it isn’t as big of a deal as most boat owners think it is. Hell....most boat owners really just need to learn how to pilot a boat and back a trailer. I couldn’t care less if they have USCG lighting or aftermarket. I wish they’d just get the hell outta my way.
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13950039
04/06/21 11:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724
Flippin-Out
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Has anyone on here ever been stopped by a game warden for have these type of nav lights? So I'm really curious, has anyone been stopped with these type of red and green before? I would never have illegal lighting on my boat, so I can't say I've ever faced that challenge. But, the boating enforcement division of TPWD seemed to be quite certain they are NOT legal, and that an operator would be at risk of receiving a citation. I did not ask how many citations they may have issued at the time as they would probably say "none of your business". I want to be clear they were very cooperative in providing information. They DID say that this type of illegal lighting is becoming a problem. I hope they do issue citations; there are reasons it's wrong, and those affect safety. You can't put just any lighting on your boat just as you can't put whatever you want on your truck/car if in intend to operate it on public roadways. The rules have reasons. Example: someone may sell cool covers to go over your stock tail/brake lamps, but they never told you they were USDOT approved I bet, and there won't be an approval mark on them either. Law enforcement will issue citations for these. They can even get you into some complications if your vehicle has them and you are subsequently rear-ended. Call TPWD in Austin, and speak with the boating enforcement division if you would like to question information I have provided. I didn't find it difficult to do when I did it 2-3 years ago. For several years, I used to work with a former USCG officer, and operated a commercial dive boat with him, hence my background and interest in this topic. We had a lot of time to discuss maritime rules/regulations while waiting topside so he became my mentor. He even offered to pay for me to get a 100 Ton Captain's license, but I never found time to do it. At night around a port, traffic and all the various marking lamps can get to be quite a bit to handle. The worst would be glaring spotlights (illegal) that would blind our night vision. BTW, you can't "fix it" with respect to LEDs on the rubrail by running both LED strips and the manufacturer-provided lamp fixtures (that are often mounted on poles). The LEDs would be illegal because there is no assurance they were installed to cover only the 112.5 degree arc on each side of the bow. The illumination color (by actual light frequency) is tightly specified, as well as minimum and maximum intensity, any or all of which may be violated by the LEDs being activated. Addition: I do not have one of the docking lights for Minn Kota motors, but my boat mechanic buddy did tell me don't run with one on on Lake Conroe. He said he had a customer who got a citation for running across the lake with his turned on. This is second hand, but I do consider it fairly reliable info.
Last edited by Flippin-Out; 04/06/21 11:28 PM.
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13950224
04/07/21 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,097
David Burton
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,097 |
Let's be clear It isnt about the citation, that's just a little money. The real issue is one of liability if something goes wrong. The liability/accident lawyers would see a golden Goose on an illegally lit boat and claim fault
David Burton 2015 Skeeter FX 21 +Ultrex +Helix 12 (x3) +Mega360 +MegaLive
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13950266
04/07/21 01:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 328
Stratos2011
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Posts: 328 |
So my next question is, can you be DQ’d from a tournament for getting a citation for these lights?
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13950279
04/07/21 02:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,097
David Burton
TFF Team Angler
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Posts: 4,097 |
I've seen some of the worst offenders in bigger tournaments. I would guess it depends on the Rules, someone filing a complaint and the questions in the Polygraph.
David Burton 2015 Skeeter FX 21 +Ultrex +Helix 12 (x3) +Mega360 +MegaLive
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#13950317
04/07/21 02:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 328
Stratos2011
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Just wanted to share some recent boat upgrades. Most important, not pictured i just added an Ultrex too. Where has this been my whole life. Added side strip lights under the bump rail. Added a ram mounted head light for idling stump fields in the dark. Its removable after the sun comes up Added red and green nav lights Installed new seats. Wanted originals shown re-upholstered but way too expensive so i bought new for WAY less. You've done a good job of violating a number of applicable USCG regulations (also adopted into law by the state of Texas) on lighting. If you turn on any of those spotlights at any time other than when actually docking, you'll be subject to citation. (I understand that TPWD has issued warnings and citations for the trolling motor "docking light" when operated on open water.) Operating any light that may blind the night vision of another operator is illegal, and that's what those do. As for the side "lamp bar" lamps, those introduce confusion as to the orientation and direction of your boat. Even your after-market addition of the navigation marker lighting (red/green) is illegal. There are strict regulations as to the angle of visibility of the red and green, and that can't be controlled with any accuracy when the lighting is being placed in a curved rubrail. The color and intensity may not meet specification either. If you send your photos to the Marine Enforcement Division of TPWD in Austin, I'm rather certain they'll reply with the same opinion I've posted here. So if I’m fishing are the side strip light ok? Not running the big motor at all?
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Re: Recent Boat Upgrades
[Re: Stratos2011]
#13950350
04/07/21 02:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724
Flippin-Out
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724 |
I will give you an opinion, but I'm not the enforcers, so it's worth about a penny on a good day.
If the side lights are not overly bright and do not shine upward enough ...to cause loss of night vision by another boater, you probably won't run into issues with them. Workboats with decklights do use white lights, but they are usually contained within a reflector and aimed downward at the deck. They actually help illuminate the boat so that others see it even better, but without undue glare for the other boat. I haven't seen yours at night, and deciding if the brightness is "too much" is subjective. Assuming you aren't moving (or are moving very little, like just a slow drift), you should have only white light illuminated. Any red or green lighting visible outside the boat will be confused by another boat as a vessel's navigation lighting, and the long strips clearly don't meet spec for that. For when you are at rest (or nearly so) TPWD may tell you that the white lighting is acceptable - which would be from a practical viewpoint as it certainly would make you more visible and far less likely to be struck by another vessel underway. They probably won't give you an opinion over the phone - they don't do that because people try to come back at them over something if they happen to receive a citation. The best thing to do is probably ask your local game warden to view the boat and give you an opinion.
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