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Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Mark Jones] #13944126 04/01/21 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.


Someone gets it! BASS and FLW are the stages (brands) that made those names what they are. It’s amazing how many people just don’t see the big picture and what MLF tried to do. In short, a couple billionaires tried to acquire all of a small industry and make it their own little play thing and reality TV sandbox. They failed spectacularly after BASS shot them down, not once, not twice, but three times! FLW became a casualty and to highlight just how inept MLF leadership is, they literally trashed the only asset they got in the deal... the FLW brand itself; and it was done due to pure ego! And they wonder why they can’t get sponsors. No one in the small world of recreational fisherman (the customers and target of sponsors) knows who or what MLF is... they are not welcomed to their events, they’re not fan friendly, but they sure do know who BASS is and who FLW was... The individual names come and go, and if you’re good enough during your time you’ll be remembered as a legend, but there are very few of them. Those legends were built by the platform brands... BASS and FLW, not some unknown Major League Fishing that has an acronym that is more relatable to the adult entertainment industry than fishing.

What even more hilarious is they proclaim they want to grow the industry, yet they have done nothing to do that... unlike BASS who has pushed kayak tournaments in a big way recently, which significantly lowers the cost of entry to the average fisherman. Or score a long term deal to continue bringing their tournaments to LIVE TV! What’s MLF done... broadcast its tournaments 6 months removed from when they actually took place on some back channels of cable TV. And make it abundantly clear they don’t want spectators at their events. KVD who?


For the 1000th time, MLF viewership, reach and sponsorship is running wide open and MLF series and BFL entries are at all time highs and their events are busting at the seams with anglers signing up. You live in a strange reality...


An all time high from? Because MLF's sample size is pretty small. They have only been in this particular capacity for a few short years. I am not saying you are wrong or right, I would just like a little more information. A youtuber could say their views are up 100% and it sounds really good. It is the information they keep to themselves that skews the statement. A) They have only had a youtube channel for 2 years, and B) their views are up 100% from 50 the previous year.


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

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Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: J.H.S.] #13944141 04/01/21 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.


Someone gets it! BASS and FLW are the stages (brands) that made those names what they are. It’s amazing how many people just don’t see the big picture and what MLF tried to do. In short, a couple billionaires tried to acquire all of a small industry and make it their own little play thing and reality TV sandbox. They failed spectacularly after BASS shot them down, not once, not twice, but three times! FLW became a casualty and to highlight just how inept MLF leadership is, they literally trashed the only asset they got in the deal... the FLW brand itself; and it was done due to pure ego! And they wonder why they can’t get sponsors. No one in the small world of recreational fisherman (the customers and target of sponsors) knows who or what MLF is... they are not welcomed to their events, they’re not fan friendly, but they sure do know who BASS is and who FLW was... The individual names come and go, and if you’re good enough during your time you’ll be remembered as a legend, but there are very few of them. Those legends were built by the platform brands... BASS and FLW, not some unknown Major League Fishing that has an acronym that is more relatable to the adult entertainment industry than fishing.

What even more hilarious is they proclaim they want to grow the industry, yet they have done nothing to do that... unlike BASS who has pushed kayak tournaments in a big way recently, which significantly lowers the cost of entry to the average fisherman. Or score a long term deal to continue bringing their tournaments to LIVE TV! What’s MLF done... broadcast its tournaments 6 months removed from when they actually took place on some back channels of cable TV. And make it abundantly clear they don’t want spectators at their events. KVD who?


For the 1000th time, MLF viewership, reach and sponsorship is running wide open and MLF series and BFL entries are at all time highs and their events are busting at the seams with anglers signing up. You live in a strange reality...


An all time high from? Because MLF's sample size is pretty small. They have only been in this particular capacity for a few short years. I am not saying you are wrong or right, I would just like a little more information. A youtuber could say their views are up 100% and it sounds really good. It is the information they keep to themselves that skews the statement. A) They have only had a youtube channel for 2 years, and B) their views are up 100% from 50 the previous year.


Their sample size isn’t small, it’s the largest in the industry across TV, digital and events. MLF regularly shares key metrics and information with sponsors and partners that need the data. It’s not a mystery for those who need to know.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Mark Jones] #13944145 04/01/21 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.


Someone gets it! BASS and FLW are the stages (brands) that made those names what they are. It’s amazing how many people just don’t see the big picture and what MLF tried to do. In short, a couple billionaires tried to acquire all of a small industry and make it their own little play thing and reality TV sandbox. They failed spectacularly after BASS shot them down, not once, not twice, but three times! FLW became a casualty and to highlight just how inept MLF leadership is, they literally trashed the only asset they got in the deal... the FLW brand itself; and it was done due to pure ego! And they wonder why they can’t get sponsors. No one in the small world of recreational fisherman (the customers and target of sponsors) knows who or what MLF is... they are not welcomed to their events, they’re not fan friendly, but they sure do know who BASS is and who FLW was... The individual names come and go, and if you’re good enough during your time you’ll be remembered as a legend, but there are very few of them. Those legends were built by the platform brands... BASS and FLW, not some unknown Major League Fishing that has an acronym that is more relatable to the adult entertainment industry than fishing.

What even more hilarious is they proclaim they want to grow the industry, yet they have done nothing to do that... unlike BASS who has pushed kayak tournaments in a big way recently, which significantly lowers the cost of entry to the average fisherman. Or score a long term deal to continue bringing their tournaments to LIVE TV! What’s MLF done... broadcast its tournaments 6 months removed from when they actually took place on some back channels of cable TV. And make it abundantly clear they don’t want spectators at their events. KVD who?


For the 1000th time, MLF viewership, reach and sponsorship is running wide open and MLF series and BFL entries are at all time highs and their events are busting at the seams with anglers signing up. You live in a strange reality...

He lives in a matrix. It really makes zero sense the way he behaves. It seems time that the real Big O tell us who he is

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Big O Florida] #13944150 04/01/21 05:42 PM
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Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: J.H.S.] #13944210 04/01/21 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".


But Warren never backs up his claims. Jus like in this thread where he has said numerous time how MLF has lost a bunch of sponsors and not signed new ones. That is just a totally made up claim

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: J.H.S.] #13944211 04/01/21 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".



Honestly, I know

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Big O Florida] #13944213 04/01/21 06:45 PM
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Well. Undisputed fact. Watching a tournament that occurred 6 months ago, on tv at 9pm, after you know the winner, kinda sucks. I’d rather watch TTZ live weigh ins on my phone.


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: SteezMacQueen] #13944214 04/01/21 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Well. Undisputed fact. Watching a tournament that occurred 6 months ago, on tv at 9pm, after you know the winner, kinda sucks. I’d rather watch TTZ live weigh ins on my phone.


Good news is you can watch them Live. cheers

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Big O Florida] #13944234 04/01/21 06:59 PM
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If they have become irrelevant as you state, then why when I go to Bass Pro, Academy, etc to buy baits are their names so prominently displayed? Where are the "Hank Cherry" baits? The Luke Palmer baits? These guys have accomplished a lot in their time and I am not knocking them...but your commentary to Kevin Van Dam, Ott DeFoe, etc being irrelevant....well apparently that is not true or they would have been dropped by their sponsors a long time ago. And again I will state that if the MLF was failing, these anglers would have left long ago.....


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Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: J.H.S.] #13944278 04/01/21 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.


Its no secret I prefer watching pros catch biggest 5 over more little fish, but I disagree.

Some of my favorite anglers today, I had no clue who they were prior to MLF. I never heard of Andy Montgomery prior to MLF. The one thing I will give credit to MLF for is giving anglers in the middle of the pack more exposure time. Even with the Elites, everyone knew the top 10 guys that were nearly always in contention, but I didn't know most of them. MLF has exposed more fishermen to the fans. Beforehand if you weren't winning, it was difficult to brand yourself. Now, we've gotten to know more of the anglers and their personalities. I think more guys are creating their own brand without having to win titles. Seems to me MLF has spread the wealth a little more amongst the participants in this manner.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Mark Jones] #13944293 04/01/21 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".



Honestly, I know



And I am not saying you do or don't. All I am saying is Big O catches it for spouting off "unsubstantiated claims", yet I am not seeing one shred of evidence to dispute them. You say you know, and you might (that isn't for me to dispute), but saying you know and not being able to back it up is like saying you caught them in practice but only bringing 3 to weigh in. If you do know and you can't say, then just don't say anything. Sort of makes it seem like a power trip on your part. I do not know either way. I can make a semi-educated, very biased assumption based upon certain thing that have happened. So far I would say Big O isn't as wrong and incoherent as some have stated.


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: sprigsss] #13944297 04/01/21 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sprigsss
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
You can say the anglers built their brand, and to an extent that is true, but they are nothing without a platform. Guys in local clubs that are good enough are nobodies because they have no platform. BASS provided a platform and an exposure that allowed these guys and the sport to grow. MLF has not done any of that. BASS will be fine because they no how to operate. The guys who aren't as big of name right now, will be. Big names come and go. BASS has a history of developing those.


Its no secret I prefer watching pros catch biggest 5 over more little fish, but I disagree.

Some of my favorite anglers today, I had no clue who they were prior to MLF. I never heard of Andy Montgomery prior to MLF. The one thing I will give credit to MLF for is giving anglers in the middle of the pack more exposure time. Even with the Elites, everyone knew the top 10 guys that were nearly always in contention, but I didn't know most of them. MLF has exposed more fishermen to the fans. Beforehand if you weren't winning, it was difficult to brand yourself. Now, we've gotten to know more of the anglers and their personalities. I think more guys are creating their own brand without having to win titles. Seems to me MLF has spread the wealth a little more amongst the participants in this manner.



That is fair enough. Different perspectives I suppose. It doesn't matter what trail you are on, you have to be competitive to become well known and get exposure. Montgomery wasn't overly competitive on the Elites. Not sure how he is doing at MLF.


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Dubee] #13944302 04/01/21 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Dubee
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".


But Warren never backs up his claims. Jus like in this thread where he has said numerous time how MLF has lost a bunch of sponsors and not signed new ones. That is just a totally made up claim



And maybe it is? I don't know. At this point I really don't know which side is more correct. I do know if they are made up claims, he generally presents them in a fairly convincing manner. I would like to see the guys who are disputing his claim say something other than "his arguments are baseless and have no facts". How do you know? What evidentiary support do you have to back that up? I would love to see proof on either side. I know Mark Jones claims he knows, and maybe he does, however saying it and proving it are not the same. Verbalizing basic marketing rhetoric that they teach you in Marketing 101 isn't proof. Surely there is a way to more substantiate any of the "false claims".


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: Dubee] #13944344 04/01/21 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dubee
But Warren never backs up his claims. Jus like in this thread where he has said numerous time how MLF has lost a bunch of sponsors and not signed new ones. That is just a totally made up claim


Look, Warren's shadow... Dan roflmao


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Re: Unhappy MLF Pro’s? [Re: J.H.S.] #13944349 04/01/21 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by J.H.S.
Still didn't answer the question. That was a very nice deflection though. You said all time high? An all time high from what? There has to be a starting point. In there current capacity of "having the most hours on tv", they are very young. They have only had 2 years worth of data. Is it an all time high in their organization? Is it an all time high in the industry? I took marketing along with my accounting degree. I understand marketing strategies. "All time high" sounds great when you compare it to.......what? I feel like if Big O is being pressed to back up his claim, the other side should as well. Only seems reasonable. Or there is another alternative. Just state "Honestly, I don't know".



Honestly, I know



And I am not saying you do or don't. All I am saying is Big O catches it for spouting off "unsubstantiated claims", yet I am not seeing one shred of evidence to dispute them. You say you know, and you might (that isn't for me to dispute), but saying you know and not being able to back it up is like saying you caught them in practice but only bringing 3 to weigh in. If you do know and you can't say, then just don't say anything. Sort of makes it seem like a power trip on your part. I do not know either way. I can make a semi-educated, very biased assumption based upon certain thing that have happened. So far I would say Big O isn't as wrong and incoherent as some have stated.


Big O catches it because he's non-sensical and crosses over himself in every other thread. He brings that on himself.

MLF/BPT produce their TV numbers regularly for all to see and they're ratings numbers that no one can argue, they just did a full digital recap for all to see from Redcrest and on the Big 5 side their numbers in terms of participation are at all time high and that's all time for FLW. The data is NOT hard to find. Big O just likes to dispute the data with no substance whatsoever behind his conjecture.

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