Let's boil this down to the people who have committed mass murders. Speaking of the guy who shot up the concert in Vegas, and the HS kids at Columbine, and the guy at the El Paso Walmart, and the guy at the Boulder grocery store, and any of the others...

These people each made a conscious decision that they were going to walk into a building and shoot as many people as possible.

With that knowledge, do you think a background check requirement would stop them from acting on their plan?

Liberals would argue that significantly less people would have died if they wouldn't have had access to a high-capacity, semi-automatic weapon.

The background check becomes more of an issue for gang crimes in places like Detroit and Chicago - preventing obvious criminals from getting guns from unknowing public sellers.

I'm not necessarily in favor of these measures, but to act like they have no basis in logic is a little too far IMHO.

It's not terribly arduous or expensive. A shotgun/rifle license (on average) is $35--just about the same as a fishing license.
There are 1.3 million licensed rifles and shotguns in England and 600,000 licensed hand guns.

Okay. How about this. Here's my final offer.

You have to have filed a tax return in the last year (or be of retirement age) and you can't be currently living in someone's basement. That eliminates all the gang bangers and Norman Bates of the world. Reference required if you balding under the age of 25 or have a pedo mustache.

What reality do you live in where gangbangers will go into a legitimate gun store and buy a gun? You think it is logical to make more laws for the gangbangers to follow? Do you understand liberals do not at all care about intercity violence and the only reason they concern themselves with current "mass shootings" is to get control of guns? Has any government bent on gun control ever had good intentions?

How about this:
Let’s start enforcing the laws already on the books.
Let’s quit electing judges who release violent criminals on absurdly low bonds (take note of your home county, Jpurdue).
Let’s quit electing prosecutors who keep finding ways to mitigate the seriousness of violent acts.
Let’s quit electing legislators who endorse violence in the name of politically correct causes.
Let’s quit putting career criminals on pedestals (like Saint George Floyd).
There’s more, but that’d be a great start.
And remember: a federal judge ordered law enforcement to return George Hennard’s confiscated firearms to him, in spite of his mental illness, after which he went on to kill a bunch of Texans in Waco, at a Luby’s cafeteria. On a normal day, several cops would have been in there for lunch, but a large training event interfered. With nobody in the restaurant armed, Hennard was able to calmly walk from table to table killing folks. Yet, it was illegal for him to purchase a firearm. That’s how well barring certain groups from purchasing weapons works.

Oops! Senior moment! I meant Killeen, not Waco. Sorry......

IN! start enforcing a death penalty, with only one appeal, for any gun crime committed.

my oldest sibling, is mentally unstable. He had committed some pretty bad things with a gun. And has been in and out of the nut-hut. My parents have allowed him to stay with them from time to time.Until he gets "better". I took all my dads guns several years ago and keep them at my house. fast forward a few years. He had an episode, beat my parents pretty bad, they had to flee for their lives. when the police showed up, he had slit his throat with a steak knife. He wont live with them ever again, not as long as I have a heart beat. but he's still around. I'd be willing to bet he has a gun. legally. my point is violent people don't need guns to be violent.

Ironically, I don't like guns. They're just a tool. same as a hammer, a wrench , or a screwdriver. The ones I have are mostly my dads. a few I acquired through the years when I hunted deer, and turkey. I have no interest in carrying one out and about. That being said, I do believe the 2nd amendment is necessary, and everyone should be able to protect and defend themselves from all threats, including a government gone wrong. And too many restrictions will keep honest people from being able to protect or defend themselves.

my grandfather was a WWII vet. I heard him once say, Killing is easy, living with it is the hard part. I see this struggle in my youngest son who spent 10 years in the Army.

Of course violent people don't need guns to be violent. But guns can be a force magnifier for them. You can't kill 10 grown men in 30 seconds with a wrench. You could with an AR-15. Both are tools, sure, but arguing they are the same as a wrench is silly. Thank goodness your brother didn't have a gun the night when he assaulted your parents.

As a society we've drawn lines on how much a force multiplier is appropriate. We all agree the average guy shouldn't be allowed to have nukes. Most of us agree the average guy shouldn't be allowed to have a hellfire missile. Probably a majority agree fully automatic weapons aren't a great idea for the average guy. Why? Force multiplication.

Most of us agree clinically insane people shouldn't have guns. Most of us agree violent criminals shouldn't have guns. Most of us agree 8 year olds shouldn't have unsupervised access to hand guns. The 2nd amendment doesn't give a pass on any of these things, but yet here we are and virtually all of us are in agreement. Common sense that's why.

that's all well and good, but where do you stop? are you good with "assault rifles"? semi autos? rifle caliber pistols?

Well that's where we have to have a discussion as a society. How do you balance a mans innate right to defend himself vs. the damage that can be caused by outlier nut jobs. No easier answers, but I do think we can do a better job filtering out the crazy people even if we leave the lines right where they are on weapons.

here is a prime reason we have gun violence.

Secret Service Agents Intervened in Hunter Biden Gun Incident: Report

On October 23, 2018, Hallie Biden took a .38 revolver belonging to Hunter and placed it in the trash outside Janssen’s Market in Wilmington, Del. After informing Hunter the same day, he told her to go back and retrieve the gun, however the gun was missing from the trash can when Hallie returned to get it.

Hallie told the store manager, who passed the information along to Delaware police. According to the police report, which was obtained by Politico, the incident caused heightened concerns because the store was across the street from a high school, and officers worried the gun could be used in a crime. The FBI, which was investigating Hunter’s taxes at the time, also reportedly responded to the incident.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/secret-agents-intervened-hunter-biden-122021425.html


hunter was tossed out of the navy and only got an administrative discharge when it should have been a dishonorable. he would not be allowed a gun with a dishonorable.

he was busted in az. for coke when his crack pipe was found in a rental car.

Why Joe Biden's Son Wasn't Charged for Cocaine in Pot-Hating Yavapai County
https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/new...ana-yavapai-arizona-sheila-polk-11298921


Revealed: Hunter Biden 'possession of controlled substance' charge kept under wraps while father led drug war from Senate
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-father-spearheaded-drug-war-from-senate



here we have the son of the president who has a coke problem that is well documented yet he can go buy a gun tomorrow legally.
charges not filed, records expunged and being tossed out of the military for drug use and he is still legal.


do not preach to me about "gun control" until you can address the actual problem that causes the violence in the first place.

McVeigh didn't pull a trigger.

If your main justification of owning guns is to defend yourself, then you need to define from what one must be able to defend oneself. Defending from a mugger on the street would need one tool, defending from an angry mob another.

The 2nd Amendment allows that a people should defend themselves from a corrupt government. In that case, we must be able to defend ourselves from the United States military. I'm not so sure hellfire missiles and nuclear bombs are out of the question in this discussion.