texasfishingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Power-Pole CS, T-Rigger, JoeGoes, EcKo
119150 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
hopalong 120,571
TexDawg 119,516
Bigbob_FTW 94,879
John175☮ 85,892
Pilothawk 83,260
Bob Davis 81,480
Mark Perry 72,282
Derek 🐝 68,311
JDavis7873 67,416
Forum Statistics
Forums59
Topics1,037,816
Posts13,935,011
Members144,150
Most Online39,925
Dec 30th, 2023
Print Thread
Page 10 of 16 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 15 16
Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell] #13932963 03/23/21 11:51 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,466
K
kscatman76 Online Content
Extreme Angler
Online Content
Extreme Angler
K
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,466
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
I would not say TEXAS leads the Nation in Big Bass or Big Bass Lakes.

Our TEXAS STATE RECORD OF 18 lbs from 1992 will not even Make Florida's or California's Top 50 list of big bass. Might think on that just a bit.

OH and they DO NOT HAVE A SAL Program.


California has a "Feed a lunker program" if it wasn't for all the trout it would be alot different. I think Texas is amazing, I think the SAL is amazing. I live in Kansas and if we go to a public lake and catch more than 3 bass a day and one is over 2 pounds you've honestly done something for the most part. They don't give two shi%% about bass in kansas. For a guy that makes a living on the TDWP's "baby" lake I can't believe how much you bash them. Seems to me like they have done you pretty good.

Last edited by kscatman76; 03/23/21 12:33 PM.
Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell] #13933008 03/23/21 12:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,103
buda13 Offline
TFF Guru
Offline
TFF Guru
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,103
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
I would not say TEXAS leads the Nation in Big Bass or Big Bass Lakes.

Our TEXAS STATE RECORD OF 18 lbs from 1992 will not even Make Florida's or California's Top 50 list of big bass. Might think on that just a bit.

OH and they DO NOT HAVE A SAL Program.


Kind of a weird deal having a guide from Fork that hates TPWD SAL program. Never hear any complaints about the SAL fingerlings or insane stockings TPWD gives the lake. Maybe moving the guide service to California or Florida to get away from this horrible thing TPWD is doing would help ease the tension... then you’d be in a real big bass state to boot!




Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: the skipper] #13933012 03/23/21 12:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,026
G
grout-scout Online Sleepy
TFF Guru
Online Sleepy
TFF Guru
G
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,026
Originally Posted by the skipper
TPWD and SAL are two different entities. SAL doesnt have anything to do with lake management other than giving some fingerlings with a horrible survival rate. TPWD sets the regulations, stocking, and habitat management that's supposed to lead to bigger, better fishing. Besides the grass killing most people would agree that TPWD does a pretty dang good job of managing our lakes. SAL is a totally different thing but the two seem to get intertwined during these conversations.




Guys are oblivious to that and apparently so many can’t comprehend it, when they do read it.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: buda13] #13933018 03/23/21 12:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,026
G
grout-scout Online Sleepy
TFF Guru
Online Sleepy
TFF Guru
G
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,026
Originally Posted by buda13
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
I would not say TEXAS leads the Nation in Big Bass or Big Bass Lakes.

Our TEXAS STATE RECORD OF 18 lbs from 1992 will not even Make Florida's or California's Top 50 list of big bass. Might think on that just a bit.

OH and they DO NOT HAVE A SAL Program.


Kind of a weird deal having a guide from Fork that hates TPWD SAL program. Never hear any complaints about the SAL fingerlings or insane stockings TPWD gives the lake. Maybe moving the guide service to California or Florida to get away from this horrible thing TPWD is doing would help ease the tension... then you’d be in a real big bass state to boot!




Do you understand that big bass were being grown BEFORE the SAL program. Fish are being taken out of their lake, during/before the spawn, I think this is what some don’t like.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13933051 03/23/21 01:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474
M
MagFluker Offline
Extreme Angler
Offline
Extreme Angler
M
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474
Texas sure has better fishing than NC. I have personal experience in that. Tired of catching dink Spots. Not many DD's swimming around here.

Shearon Harris is done, they killed the grass and dumped grass carp in there. They don't take care of the lakes when they start to age a bit. The stocking program is a joke for bass. BPT will be different this go around than the last time they were in the Raleigh area lakes. They are here during the spawn so it will fish ok though.


Kyle in NC

PB 11.1



Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: buda13] #13933056 03/23/21 01:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,082
horseplaydvm Offline
TFF Celebrity
Offline
TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,082
Originally Posted by buda13
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
I would not say TEXAS leads the Nation in Big Bass or Big Bass Lakes.

Our TEXAS STATE RECORD OF 18 lbs from 1992 will not even Make Florida's or California's Top 50 list of big bass. Might think on that just a bit.

OH and they DO NOT HAVE A SAL Program.


Kind of a weird deal having a guide from Fork that hates TPWD SAL program. Never hear any complaints about the SAL fingerlings or insane stockings TPWD gives the lake. Maybe moving the guide service to California or Florida to get away from this horrible thing TPWD is doing would help ease the tension... then you’d be in a real big bass state to boot!


I commend Marc for speaking up. Do you think anyone from TPWD or SAL will listen to the average weekend angler? I doubt it. Maybe they might listen to someone who fishes almost every day and can see first hand the effects whether positive or negative the program might have on a lake. I don't think anyone complains about the stocking program other than some lakes receive very little help while others like Lake Fork reap the benefits every year. Remember, those stockings are paid for by Texans tax dollars and fishing licenses. They are not doing you a favor. They are doing what you have paid them to do so to speak. Big fish were in Texas and on this earth long before the SAL program. It wasn't the SAL program that brought Florida strain bass to Texas.
If bass with good genetics are put in a healthy environment to let them grow to their full potential then they will survive quite well without the help of the SAL program. Catch and release has done more to produce giant bass then the SAL program. JMO


[Linked Image]
Gone Fishing
B.A.S. 6/5/47-6/6/12
C.W.S. 9/29/72- 10/17/23
Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13934039 03/24/21 01:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
L
Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell Offline
TFF Celebrity
Offline
TFF Celebrity
L
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
Ok so hear is my thoughts on SAL . Started in 86 and was a good experiment at first but has not done well over all. I know so much more about the program from the inside out than a lot of you who think you know. I have worked with these guys for many years and I get to ask lots of questions and hear so crazy answers that and common sense guy would know they can't be true. They never tell the bad things about the program cause you sheep would not follow. You just assume all they do is the holy grail .

There are so many things about this SAL program that is just not worth doing. So lets back up a few years when Fork was putting them out daily. Now numbers don't lie and I can tell you the fish that died and never spawned are high. It takes 10 plus years to grow a giant and you or SAL take a chance of killing it in a day. If the spawn works then the survival rate of stocking the fry is 1 percent ! Why even disrupt the natural spawn and life of this fish. Not to mention hauling it in a truck 300 plus miles.

Some of you have lost it. You would not put your kids through this right ?? I know a fish that went in full of eggs and was there 18 months and never dropped a egg. Now that would probably have been 2 spawns in Lake Fork a additional 160,000 by TPW numbers of survivors. Ok now here are some numbers off TPW site to sit on. If they say 80,000 per bass make it and Fork at one time was like 274 entries you do the math and get 21,920,000 that could have been in Lake Fork.

They show we received 13.6 million at that time. Now that leaves out 8.3 million we not get back and their off spring as well. I am positive this program has killed Lake Fork in the genetic pool that is why you do not see big males or 15 plus pound female anymore. A few years back 5 went in a all 5 died. Tell me how that is good for any lake. I will give credit where it is due but if you knew what I do it would probably open a few eyes but then again some are just blind and stupid like sheep. They just follow and keep following .

I have donated to the TPW and worked on programs with them and I love these guys but I do not like the SAL program. Let nature runs it course. I am sure with IVIE putting out that many in a few years they will go back to just 8 pounders. It can no way help a lake that donates. If you were looking from a different view like Bucks, you think any Rancher would loan you his 200 class whitetail buck to every ranch in Texas but his own and expect to get him back in good shape and hope to breed in the next year. LOL You missed the year you gave up and you can never catch up. It is a terrible program with a very minimum reward. In fact I would say it is more negative than positive but you will never know the truth behind how many died or did not spawn.

All this for a 1 percent survival rate. INSANE !!! As far as me fishing the TPW baby, you have to be joking right ? Our stockings are terrible numbers. Last 2 years were ok but 3-4 years before we got 300,000 for 3-4 years. Now the math on that is 3,000 fish per 27,000 acres. Not sure but I probably have more in my pond.

The water turkeys and turtles, birds,and white bass eat 10 X that much a year so you seen we are going backwards not forwards. I could be here forever on this topic and I could explain many more things but some of you will never know or understand how stupid the SAL program is. One more thing to add , after 35 years of this SAL program they yet to put one of the SAL offspring babies into the top 50 in Texas ! Fact ! I have been waiting to hear from the fisheries on the 16.40 from IVIE cause it could be the first. If so 35 years for 1 fish in the top 50 !

Last I checked on the Florida record years ago the record was 20 plus and 18.91 was the cutoff and Cal was 22 plus with 19 lbs cut off.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell] #13934056 03/24/21 01:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
R
Richard McCarty Offline
Angler
Offline
Angler
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
Ok so hear is my thoughts on SAL . Started in 86 and was a good experiment at first but has not done well over all. I know so much more about the program from the inside out than a lot of you who think you know. I have worked with these guys for many years and I get to ask lots of questions and hear so crazy answers that and common sense guy would know they can't be true. They never tell the bad things about the program cause you sheep would not follow. You just assume all they do is the holy grail .

There are so many things about this SAL program that is just not worth doing. So lets back up a few years when Fork was putting them out daily. Now numbers don't lie and I can tell you the fish that died and never spawned are high. It takes 10 plus years to grow a giant and you or SAL take a chance of killing it in a day. If the spawn works then the survival rate of stocking the fry is 1 percent ! Why even disrupt the natural spawn and life of this fish. Not to mention hauling it in a truck 300 plus miles.

Some of you have lost it. You would not put your kids through this right ?? I know a fish that went in full of eggs and was there 18 months and never dropped a egg. Now that would probably have been 2 spawns in Lake Fork a additional 160,000 by TPW numbers of survivors. Ok now here are some numbers off TPW site to sit on. If they say 80,000 per bass make it and Fork at one time was like 274 entries you do the math and get 21,920,000 that could have been in Lake Fork.

They show we received 13.6 million at that time. Now that leaves out 8.3 million we not get back and their off spring as well. I am positive this program has killed Lake Fork in the genetic pool that is why you do not see big males or 15 plus pound female anymore. A few years back 5 went in a all 5 died. Tell me how that is good for any lake. I will give credit where it is due but if you knew what I do it would probably open a few eyes but then again some are just blind and stupid like sheep. They just follow and keep following .

I have donated to the TPW and worked on programs with them and I love these guys but I do not like the SAL program. Let nature runs it course. I am sure with IVIE putting out that many in a few years they will go back to just 8 pounders. It can no way help a lake that donates. If you were looking from a different view like Bucks, you think any Rancher would loan you his 200 class whitetail buck to every ranch in Texas but his own and expect to get him back in good shape and hope to breed in the next year. LOL You missed the year you gave up and you can never catch up. It is a terrible program with a very minimum reward. In fact I would say it is more negative than positive but you will never know the truth behind how many died or did not spawn.

All this for a 1 percent survival rate. INSANE !!! As far as me fishing the TPW baby, you have to be joking right ? Our stockings are terrible numbers. Last 2 years were ok but 3-4 years before we got 300,000 for 3-4 years. Now the math on that is 3,000 fish per 27,000 acres. Not sure but I probably have more in my pond.

The water turkeys and turtles, birds,and white bass eat 10 X that much a year so you seen we are going backwards not forwards. I could be here forever on this topic and I could explain many more things but some of you will never know or understand how stupid the SAL program is. One more thing to add , after 35 years of this SAL program they yet to put one of the SAL offspring babies into the top 50 in Texas ! Fact ! I have been waiting to hear from the fisheries on the 16.40 from IVIE cause it could be the first. If so 35 years for 1 fish in the top 50 !

Last I checked on the Florida record years ago the record was 20 plus and 18.91 was the cutoff and Cal was 22 plus with 19 lbs cut off.

Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
Ok so hear is my thoughts on SAL . Started in 86 and was a good experiment at first but has not done well over all. I know so much more about the program from the inside out than a lot of you who think you know. I have worked with these guys for many years and I get to ask lots of questions and hear so crazy answers that and common sense guy would know they can't be true. They never tell the bad things about the program cause you sheep would not follow. You just assume all they do is the holy grail .

There are so many things about this SAL program that is just not worth doing. So lets back up a few years when Fork was putting them out daily. Now numbers don't lie and I can tell you the fish that died and never spawned are high. It takes 10 plus years to grow a giant and you or SAL take a chance of killing it in a day. If the spawn works then the survival rate of stocking the fry is 1 percent ! Why even disrupt the natural spawn and life of this fish. Not to mention hauling it in a truck 300 plus miles.

Some of you have lost it. You would not put your kids through this right ?? I know a fish that went in full of eggs and was there 18 months and never dropped a egg. Now that would probably have been 2 spawns in Lake Fork a additional 160,000 by TPW numbers of survivors. Ok now here are some numbers off TPW site to sit on. If they say 80,000 per bass make it and Fork at one time was like 274 entries you do the math and get 21,920,000 that could have been in Lake Fork.

They show we received 13.6 million at that time. Now that leaves out 8.3 million we not get back and their off spring as well. I am positive this program has killed Lake Fork in the genetic pool that is why you do not see big males or 15 plus pound female anymore. A few years back 5 went in a all 5 died. Tell me how that is good for any lake. I will give credit where it is due but if you knew what I do it would probably open a few eyes but then again some are just blind and stupid like sheep. They just follow and keep following .

I have donated to the TPW and worked on programs with them and I love these guys but I do not like the SAL program. Let nature runs it course. I am sure with IVIE putting out that many in a few years they will go back to just 8 pounders. It can no way help a lake that donates. If you were looking from a different view like Bucks, you think any Rancher would loan you his 200 class whitetail buck to every ranch in Texas but his own and expect to get him back in good shape and hope to breed in the next year. LOL You missed the year you gave up and you can never catch up. It is a terrible program with a very minimum reward. In fact I would say it is more negative than positive but you will never know the truth behind how many died or did not spawn.

All this for a 1 percent survival rate. INSANE !!! As far as me fishing the TPW baby, you have to be joking right ? Our stockings are terrible numbers. Last 2 years were ok but 3-4 years before we got 300,000 for 3-4 years. Now the math on that is 3,000 fish per 27,000 acres. Not sure but I probably have more in my pond.

The water turkeys and turtles, birds,and white bass eat 10 X that much a year so you seen we are going backwards not forwards. I could be here forever on this topic and I could explain many more things but some of you will never know or understand how stupid the SAL program is. One more thing to add , after 35 years of this SAL program they yet to put one of the SAL offspring babies into the top 50 in Texas ! Fact ! I have been waiting to hear from the fisheries on the 16.40 from IVIE cause it could be the first. If so 35 years for 1 fish in the top 50 !

Last I checked on the Florida record years ago the record was 20 plus and 18.91 was the cutoff and Cal was 22 plus with 19 lbs cut off.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Richard McCarty] #13934076 03/24/21 01:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
R
Richard McCarty Offline
Angler
Offline
Angler
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
Marc, I respect your opinion, but disagree. In the life of Lake Fork, 274 females taken out of the lake, that have spawned for several years, will not affect the numbers or genetics in the lake. Also, several of the Sharelunker fish have been returned to Fork and released alive. I know that all 3 of mine were released alive. How many 13 lb plus fish have you released alive in Fork? The main issue with Fork at this time is habitat for fry survival. I’ve done the math. K

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13934087 03/24/21 02:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,135
txwhitetail Offline
TFF Guru
Offline
TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,135
All these Karen’s about the SAL program say they don’t like it but don’t really have any “real” reasons for not liking it.

Some will say some of the fish die...Most of our Texas lakes are way overstocked with numbers to ever be a true trophy fishery. Anglers want bites over trophies. Very few really trophy fish. These fish taken out after years to spawn in these lakes does very very little if any damage to the lake. These folks make it out likes it’s the last 13+ lb fish in the lake. More big fish die being hauled around for end of day Instagram pics and tournaments than are ever killed by the SAL truck.

California and Florida are always brought up but none of these guides ever move to these promise lands...Florida has a longer “growing” season and the giant bass you see in California are in relatively small lakes heavily stocked in trout. Not far off from being stock pond fishing. Again like the point above these lakes have low overall bass populations.

I personally think the genetics role and genetic testing and study is where the SAL program can benefit those of us that like fishing for big fish. Where that leads we’ll see but in the meantime they have my support.


Last edited by txwhitetail; 03/24/21 02:01 AM.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13934105 03/24/21 02:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
L
Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell Offline
TFF Celebrity
Offline
TFF Celebrity
L
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
No doubt the grass is a plus for the fry.

I have one 13.83 and I did the RIGHT thing and released her right where I caught her so she could spawn and deliver more big bass genetics in Lake Fork where she was raised for the future of Lake Fork.

So if you done the math you know the numbers are negative. Just so you know SAL spreads the fish all over TX and the lake that the entries come from only get a very small amount back.

In fact the stockings do not come from the SAL. Stockings are from a different batch of fry. So in saying that you don't know if you are getting the same genetics that you gave up.

I don't need any Glory to put a fish in a program.

So if you donated 3 then you should feel great about removing 240,000 fish from Lake Fork. That is with a 80,000 per fish survival rate the TPW uses.

Agree to Disagree with you as always.

If the SAL Program is such a success then why has not one state tried to copy it ???

Last edited by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell; 03/24/21 02:15 AM.
Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell] #13934112 03/24/21 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
R
Richard McCarty Offline
Angler
Offline
Angler
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
No doubt the grass is a plus for the fry.

I have one 13.83 and I did the RIGHT thing and released her right where I caught her so she could spawn and deliver more big bass genetics in Lake Fork where she was raised for the future of Lake Fork.

So if you done the math you know the numbers are negative. Just so you know SAL spreads the fish all over TX and the lake that the entries come from only get a very small amount back.

In fact the stockings do not come from the SAL. Stockings are from a different batch of fry. So in saying that you don't know if you are getting the same genetics that you gave up.

I don't need any Glory to put a fish in a program.

So if you donated 3 then you should feel great about removing 240,000 fish from Lake Fork. That is with a 80,000 per fish survival rate the TPW uses.

Agree to Disagree with you as always.

If the SAL Program is such a success then why has not one state tried to copy it ???

Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
No doubt the grass is a plus for the fry.

I have one 13.83 and I did the RIGHT thing and released her right where I caught her so she could spawn and deliver more big bass genetics in Lake Fork where she was raised for the future of Lake Fork.

So if you done the math you know the numbers are negative. Just so you know SAL spreads the fish all over TX and the lake that the entries come from only get a very small amount back.

In fact the stockings do not come from the SAL. Stockings are from a different batch of fry. So in saying that you don't know if you are getting the same genetics that you gave up.

I don't need any Glory to put a fish in a program.

So if you donated 3 then you should feel great about removing 240,000 fish from Lake Fork. That is with a 80,000 per fish survival rate the TPW uses.

Agree to Disagree with you as always.

If the SAL Program is such a success then why has not one state tried to copy it ???

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Richard McCarty] #13934122 03/24/21 02:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
R
Richard McCarty Offline
Angler
Offline
Angler
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
Again, I released my fish alive, back into Fork. If they were capable of spawning again, their spawn was a benefit for the lake. Zero loss for Lake Fork. I respect and applaud the Sharelunker program, and think it’s been beneficial to all Texas lakes.

Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13934126 03/24/21 02:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
L
Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell Offline
TFF Celebrity
Offline
TFF Celebrity
L
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,139
It is kind of like the TPW 13 inch spread rule. This is funny to me and I think it is like trying to protect a black Angus bull cause one day he will be a long horn. If the genetics are not there then you can't get there. IMO


Good Night To All For Now. Got to get ready to go swing at them again tomorrow.

Last edited by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell; 03/24/21 02:27 AM.
Re: Sal survival rate for Ivie [Re: Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell] #13934160 03/24/21 02:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
R
Richard McCarty Offline
Angler
Offline
Angler
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 335
Originally Posted by Lake Fork Guide Marc Mitchell
No doubt the grass is a plus for the fry.

I have one 13.83 and I did the RIGHT thing and released her right where I caught her so she could spawn and deliver more big bass genetics in Lake Fork where she was raised for the future of Lake Fork.

So if you done the math you know the numbers are negative. Just so you know SAL spreads the fish all over TX and the lake that the entries come from only get a very small amount back.

In fact the stockings do not come from the SAL. Stockings are from a different batch of fry. So in saying that you don't know if you are getting the same genetics that you gave up.

I don't need any Glory to put a fish in a program.

So if you donated 3 then you should feel great about removing 240,000 fish from Lake Fork. That is with a 80,000 per fish survival rate the TPW uses.

Agree to Disagree with you as always.

If the SAL Program is such a success then why has not one state tried to copy it ???

Page 10 of 16 1 2 8 9 10 11 12 15 16
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 1998-2022 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3