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Jan 23rd, 2013
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Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? #13900346 02/24/21 03:23 PM
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jimmytimmy87 Offline OP
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I run a regular deep cycle marine battery for my 30# TM. It was right at 100$ and gives me plenty of power to last all day. It is by now means broken, BUT it is super heavy (pushing 70#.) That makes me ride with a low drag in the water. It also takes up a lot of room in the tank well. Recently, I heard about lithium batteries for TM.

1) They are expensive, but seem to be worth it in the long run. Do you agree?
2) What size do you need for small TM to run all day? (54aH seems to be good)
3) Lithium seems to be the main ingredient, but there are lots of other combos (IE: iron, phosphorus, etc.) What is the best/best for the money?
4) Trends seem to dictate that prices for these batteries will drop. Should I wait to pick one up?
5) Right now, I can go about 3 MPH with my TM. If I switch to a lithium battery (and lose 50#), it would stand to reason my speed would increase. Would this increase be enough to justify the >300$ price tag?

If there is anything else you know about them that you could throw in, I'd appreciate it. Just looking to make an informed decision...


It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
- Kurt Cobain
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900461 02/24/21 05:12 PM
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1) Personally, I think they are worth it. Weight and size makes a big difference in a Kayak

2) This depends upon your use. You can size down a little because Lithium will run at full power down to about a 10% remaining charge... Lead batteries will start tapping out at 50% remaining charge (and will not fully deplete). However, I would get the largest capacity that you can afford... You won't be upset if you finish the day with 50% remaining, but you will be upset if it taps out 2 hours before you are done fishing.

3) I don't know the answer to this one. However, if you are spending the money, I suggest that you don't skimp... do your research and get a good one because it will last you a very long time (even if you have to wait and save up a little more).

4) Possibly. Like LED lights, the price came down over time. However, LED's will never be as cheap as incandescents. The same is true of Lithium... they will never be the same price as a lead battery. Have the prices bottomed out? We won't know this until after it has happened.

5) Unless I am missing something, the battery should have no impact on the speed of the TM.

Is it worth $300... Personally, I think it is. They are lighter, smaller, and last a lot longer.

For the record, I am not a lithium expert (far from it). I only know what I read in a few articles over the years. My hands-on experience with Lithium is limited to a fish finder battery and a host of lithium power tools. I will say that there is NO comparison between my Makita lithiums and the old batteries. My Makita cordless tools are more powerful than some of my corded tools and the batteries last a very long time. They also run at full power up until they die... the old batteries would lose power after they were about 50% depleted.

Jerry knows a lot more about Lithium. Perhaps he will see this and chime in.

Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900587 02/24/21 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jimmytimmy87
I run a regular deep cycle marine battery for my 30# TM. It was right at 100$ and gives me plenty of power to last all day. It is by now means broken, BUT it is super heavy (pushing 70#.) That makes me ride with a low drag in the water. It also takes up a lot of room in the tank well. Recently, I heard about lithium batteries for TM.

1) They are expensive, but seem to be worth it in the long run. Do you agree?

*Probably not worth it if someone only goes out goes out a few times per year, like on the 5 major (5 -70 # loading times) holidays. I go out around 100 times per year and also use the same battery for other purposes, so well under 30 cents per use over 10 years with lithium.

2) What size do you need for small TM to run all day? (54aH seems to be good)

*A 54ah lithium will usually perform better than a 80ah lead battery, so I only need around 50% to 65% of capacity compared to lead battery.


3) Lithium seems to be the main ingredient, but there are lots of other combos (IE: iron, phosphorus, etc.) What is the best/best for the money?

*There isn't that much difference in cost for TM sizes, except for very newest lithium version which may not be worth the high price, last time I checked.

4) Trends seem to dictate that prices for these batteries will drop. Should I wait to pick one up?

*Depends on pandemic, import tariff politics, and demand for EVs, etc for china (the present market maker), cost may increase.

5) Right now, I can go about 3 MPH with my TM. If I switch to a lithium battery (and lose 50#), it would stand to reason my speed would increase. Would this increase be enough to justify the >300$ price tag?

*Nope, weight difference has little effect on speed. Changing out the TM weed free prop to APC model air plane prop might get you 3.3 MPH while also using less power draw, but you will tangle a lot more in weeds when around them.

If there is anything else you know about them that you could throw in, I'd appreciate it. Just looking to make an informed decision...


See notes above, hope this helps.

Last edited by porta; 02/24/21 06:57 PM.
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: porta] #13900661 02/24/21 07:49 PM
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I try to fish 80ish days a year. (If only I didn't have to work...) I'm really trying to get a little more speed and space. Right now I run a heavily modified OK Big Game Prowler. I only weigh 180# so this boat has weight to spare. I was hoping the lithium battery would help shed weight and in turn get me moving faster. My current set-up works great, just trying to improve my scene and weigh my options. I'll probably keep running my 70#er until it starts to give out. At that point, it would probably make sense to get the Li battery. I have read Dakota makes a good one. Do any others come to mind?


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Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900665 02/24/21 07:52 PM
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Also, do they need special chargers?


It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
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Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900902 02/24/21 10:57 PM
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Yep, 80 ah, you need LifePO4 for a trolling motor don't go with straight lithium, I wouldn't, maybe a little but you shouldn't be buying it for increase in speed.

Some LifePO4 batteries come with chargers others recommend buying their charger. Your best bet is to buy a LifePO4 charger but they're cheap. Main thing is the charge rate needs to be low (2 amps).


You get out of it what you put into it!
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900959 02/25/21 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jimmytimmy87
I try to fish 80ish days a year. (If only I didn't have to work...) I'm really trying to get a little more speed and space. Right now I run a heavily modified OK Big Game Prowler. I only weigh 180# so this boat has weight to spare. I was hoping the lithium battery would help shed weight and in turn get me moving faster. My current set-up works great, just trying to improve my scene and weigh my options. I'll probably keep running my 70#er until it starts to give out. At that point, it would probably make sense to get the Li battery. I have read Dakota makes a good one. Do any others come to mind?



To get more speed, a long narrow boat like rowers sculling boat is needed, search "hull speed limitation" for info. Hydrofoils are faster, but are not practical.

I am retired but only go half days, 2 half days when on a one week out of state trip, recharge each time. Point being that number of recharges or frequency of use of equipment matters, not warranty years or total number of years something lasts for someone.

Individual fact Ratings comments on Amazon can be useful things to be aware of, but not necessarily the best average star ratings.

JMHO, and long experience.

https://texasfishingforum.com/forum...280/re-seeking-battery-info#Post13820280

Last edited by porta; 02/25/21 12:04 AM.
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13900975 02/25/21 12:17 AM
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Agree you're not going to get much more speed out of that kayak without jumping into a Torqeedo 1103AC which is about $3000 after taxes. A Bixpy electric motor will increase your speed a little but you'll lose some run time.


You get out of it what you put into it!
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13901277 02/25/21 04:42 AM
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Agree that brute force with a torqeedo might increase the speed significantly. But if speed is that important, a 3-4 hp gasoline engine weighing around 60 lbs would probably get you there cheaper, or use a jet ski if cost not important?

Last edited by porta; 02/25/21 04:49 AM.
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13901411 02/25/21 12:45 PM
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Have you checked on different type propeller? Have seen folks experiment and pick up speed.


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Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: porta] #13901426 02/25/21 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by porta
Agree that brute force with a torqeedo might increase the speed significantly. But if speed is that important, a 3-4 hp gasoline engine weighing around 60 lbs would probably get you there cheaper, or use a jet ski if cost not important?

Yes sir a gasser is definitely the cheapest route to go at least initially. The down side is having to carry a gas can and in Texas he would also have to carry a throw cushion and a fire extinguisher on board to be legal. Then there's maintenance on the engine and the noise.

Changing the prop is a good point. It might give you a 1 mph increase if you find the right one.


You get out of it what you put into it!
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: Jerry713] #13901744 02/25/21 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry713
Originally Posted by porta
Agree that brute force with a torqeedo might increase the speed significantly. But if speed is that important, a 3-4 hp gasoline engine weighing around 60 lbs would probably get you there cheaper, or use a jet ski if cost not important?

Yes sir a gasser is definitely the cheapest route to go at least initially. The down side is having to carry a gas can and in Texas he would also have to carry a throw cushion and a fire extinguisher on board to be legal. Then there's maintenance on the engine and the noise.

Changing the prop is a good point. It might give you a 1 mph increase if you find the right one.

The path of least resistance is to simply purchase a larger TM... a 45-pound thrust will make Kayak scream. flame However, this will necessitate a larger capacity battery.

3MP in a kayak is not a bad speed... enjoy the scenery and crack a beverage on the way.

Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: Mike@972] #13902044 02/25/21 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike@972
Originally Posted by Jerry713
Originally Posted by porta
Agree that brute force with a torqeedo might increase the speed significantly. But if speed is that important, a 3-4 hp gasoline engine weighing around 60 lbs would probably get you there cheaper, or use a jet ski if cost not important?

Yes sir a gasser is definitely the cheapest route to go at least initially. The down side is having to carry a gas can and in Texas he would also have to carry a throw cushion and a fire extinguisher on board to be legal. Then there's maintenance on the engine and the noise.

Changing the prop is a good point. It might give you a 1 mph increase if you find the right one.

The path of least resistance is to simply purchase a larger TM... a 45-pound thrust will make Kayak scream. flame However, this will necessitate a larger capacity battery.

3MP in a kayak is not a bad speed... enjoy the scenery and crack a beverage on the way.

cheers


It's okay to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.
- Kurt Cobain
Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13902329 02/25/21 11:18 PM
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my 12V 35AH lead acid battery hooked up to my 30lb thrust only last me about 3 miles or less before becoming obsolete on my yak (45 lbs) with me (150lbs) and maybe another 15-20 lbs of gear. Having to haul the added 40+ pounds from the dead TM, battery, and mount for another 3-4 miles (plus my catch) made me ditch the idea after a few outings. Still considering upgrading to a larger battery for this upcoming season though.

Re: Running a TM on yak... Lithium battery? [Re: jimmytimmy87] #13902368 02/25/21 11:35 PM
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Hull speed calculation for a 13' Prowler is about 5.2 mph, someone would have to be planing on top to get above that speed. Not sure if a torquedo with 3 horsepower would be enough to get that boat on plane, as it is not designed as a planing hull, someone would have to try it. Your present 30 # thrustTM @ 30 amps is about 0.4 HP, the bigger 45# thrust is about 0.6 HP. The bigger 0.6 HP motor might get you from 3 to 4 mph, would be my best guess, a nice increase!

Hope this helps

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