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Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: 9094] #13791272 12/02/20 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by 9094
Originally Posted by Jeff From Iowa
Originally Posted by 9094
If TPWD really wanted to pare down the undersized fish just make it mandatory in tournaments on lakes with the problem to keep all unders. Have a few big fish fries, let the public know there will be free fish available to bring ice chests etc.
It wouldn’t take much to fix the under problem.



Its never that easy. People cant leave with more than the legal possession limit if they have a fishing license and honestly people never show up to take such limits from you when you offer them.

I have some very good deer hunting land and shoot a few deer a year and have yet to ever have a single person show up who said they would take one, so I donate them all to the local food bank program. People always say they want one, I text them when I drop it and they have a excuse why this day wont work but maybe another. I have told a few no big deal theres snow on the ground come get it whenever you want it will be frozen waiting.... crickets

Its the same with firewood, I have a few acres on my land I keep offering people to cut wood and none have ever showed up, theyll take it if I cut it all to length and have it where they can drive directly to it. So I just make burn piles and burn it all.

We have a lake in Iowa that is full of 12.5 inch, like 100 fish days easy etc, they wont lower the size limit to a special limit to that lake because it will cause confusion as well as everyone could claim their limit in their possession came from that lake vs the one they actually fished at. So the state keeps the minimum at 15 state wide with some lakes larger like over 19 only etc.


Well you are wrong. I have left many a tournament with more than my legal possession with a GW permission. Fish that were dead or died when released. If a tournament t organization as asked to do this a GW can give notices to the TD to give to people who take the fish. Just write in amount they take and give them the notice provided by the GW.
If small fish need to be taken from a lake the ONLY way to do so is to require them to be removed.
And believe it or not if people are told about something like this they will come get the fish. We have done the same with doe culls here and people lined up for about a mile to get a free gutted deer.



So you say I’m wrong, how can I be wrong when speaking directly about my personal experience as I clearly Explained.

As for you leaving many tournaments over the limit I dont Recall any gw at the few Texas tourneys I’ve fished but that’s your story and I have No reason to think you would just make up some stupid [censored] and post it to the www.

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Douglas J] #13791297 12/02/20 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Douglas J
Problem is you are comparing a resource that is killed and one that is caught and released by the majority of anglers.

Apples to cumquats


A better idea, if you or your parents we not born in Texas you aren't allowed to fish or hunt LOL


I like the idea of no out of state liscense. Keep them out

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: WAWI] #13791321 12/02/20 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by WAWI
Originally Posted by Douglas J
Problem is you are comparing a resource that is killed and one that is caught and released by the majority of anglers.

Apples to cumquats


A better idea, if you or your parents we not born in Texas you aren't allowed to fish or hunt LOL


I like the idea of no out of state liscense. Keep them out


Deal.... same with broken bow Oklahoma 👍🏼


Mcurtain county okie
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13791386 12/02/20 01:32 AM
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Another aspect I'd like to know more about and suspect comes into play:
What are the year to year forage fish populations and sizes in a given lake?
For example;
Medium to large bass can survive a range of adverse conditions - crazy lake level changes, murky water years, hot years, cold years, etc.
Shad and other small forage fish arent that hardy.
Most Texas lakes have seen some extremes over the past 5 or so years.
I dont know how these things effect shad spawns for example or bedding blue gill.
If you have poor shad spawns for two consecutive years, that's really got to have an impact on bass survival and growth rates.

Guntersville lake in Alabama had several years of poor threadfin shad recruitment. The result was a big gap in age class bass.
Lots (proportionally) of 5# and up fish and lots of 2# and smaller fish.
The last couple years, large bass have had to really focus on the much larger gizzard shad.

I dont think the whole thing is as simple as applying the right slot limit.
What would happen to Fork if you had a couple of consecutive years of bad forage fish production?

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Littledog] #13791665 12/02/20 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Littledog
Another aspect I'd like to know more about and suspect comes into play:
What are the year to year forage fish populations and sizes in a given lake?
For example;
Medium to large bass can survive a range of adverse conditions - crazy lake level changes, murky water years, hot years, cold years, etc.
Shad and other small forage fish arent that hardy.
Most Texas lakes have seen some extremes over the past 5 or so years.
I dont know how these things effect shad spawns for example or bedding blue gill.
If you have poor shad spawns for two consecutive years, that's really got to have an impact on bass survival and growth rates.

Guntersville lake in Alabama had several years of poor threadfin shad recruitment. The result was a big gap in age class bass.
Lots (proportionally) of 5# and up fish and lots of 2# and smaller fish.
The last couple years, large bass have had to really focus on the much larger gizzard shad.

I dont think the whole thing is as simple as applying the right slot limit.
What would happen to Fork if you had a couple of consecutive years of bad forage fish production?




Good point. I really just began the thread for just this reason. So a discussion could be had about what to do. I stopped fishing more than 4-5 times a year for a few years while I focused on other things. When I stopped large fish in all the central Texas area lakes were abundant. Now I find them difficult to catch on most of the lakes I visit (Austin, Bastrop, Fayette, Travis, Belton, Stillhouse although the last two never really produced big fish for me anyway). I DiD break off a lunker on Austin a few weeks back that might have gone 7+.

Anyway, lots of ideas and theories to be had and like most things everyone has their own idea. At least we're all thinking about it and what can be done to make it better.


I didn't lose him at the boat. I shook him off cause I didn't want my hands to get "fishy"
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13791753 12/02/20 02:14 PM
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You can give your unwanted fish to another by filling out a Wildlife Resource Document. TP&W has the form on their web site.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdforms/media/pwd_980_l2000_wildlife_resource_document.pdf


Transgenders: God made them, the devil changed their minds.
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13791770 12/02/20 02:28 PM
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I have never fished Feyette so I can't speak to that lake. However, I think there are very few public lakes in the State that harvesting smaller bass is needed to improve the fishery. In fact I would guess you could count them on one hand. The biologist that covers many of the East Texas lakes (cant remember his name) actually addressed this recently and clearly stated that the lakes he manages are not even close to their holding capacity of largemouth bass and therefor no argument could be made that harvesting any bass in the name of improving the fishery could be made. He wasn't trying to change TPWD regulations. Just responding to a direct question.

On a different note when it comes to fishery management and making lakes better for fishing as the OP titled this thread. I question the goal of making every single fishery in the Southern United States into a bass population that is a high percent Florida Genetics. They do make perfect sense in many of our lakes but not all of them. I get the advantages of Florida genetics, but we also have to admit they have disadvantages. They are spooky and they do not react well to temp changes to name a few. In addition, I'm not convinced they are the best thing to be stocking in some of our central and western lakes that are basically all rock and wood cover. When it comes to lakes fishing tough we look at all these factors as to why the bass in these lakes seems to be changing behavior. We blame it on pressure, habitat, harvest size, etc. Those are all valid, but another factor is that we increase the % Florida genetics in public lakes every year. One of the reasons the bass seem to be changing patterns over the years is because we are actually changing the genetics. I hope this new fish tracking study TPWD is doing involved a DNA sample on the tagged fish. It would be very interesting to see the % florida genetics in those fish. I'm not against Florida genetics, but I do think it would be productive at least look at stocking some better Northern genetics in some of our lakes instead of all Florida. I think you would see catch rates go up and fishing improve during the fall and winter. We have seen this play out with some of our pond stocking here at the farm. We have one pond that is all northern genetics. Those fish are like a different creature than our ponds with Florida bass. Especially in the colder weather. Just some food for thought. Take it for what it's worth.

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Tx Tree Grower] #13791860 12/02/20 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tx Tree Grower
I have never fished Feyette so I can't speak to that lake. However, I think there are very few public lakes in the State that harvesting smaller bass is needed to improve the fishery. In fact I would guess you could count them on one hand. The biologist that covers many of the East Texas lakes (cant remember his name) actually addressed this recently and clearly stated that the lakes he manages are not even close to their holding capacity of largemouth bass and therefor no argument could be made that harvesting any bass in the name of improving the fishery could be made. He wasn't trying to change TPWD regulations. Just responding to a direct question.

On a different note when it comes to fishery management and making lakes better for fishing as the OP titled this thread. I question the goal of making every single fishery in the Southern United States into a bass population that is a high percent Florida Genetics. They do make perfect sense in many of our lakes but not all of them. I get the advantages of Florida genetics, but we also have to admit they have disadvantages. They are spooky and they do not react well to temp changes to name a few. In addition, I'm not convinced they are the best thing to be stocking in some of our central and western lakes that are basically all rock and wood cover. When it comes to lakes fishing tough we look at all these factors as to why the bass in these lakes seems to be changing behavior. We blame it on pressure, habitat, harvest size, etc. Those are all valid, but another factor is that we increase the % Florida genetics in public lakes every year. One of the reasons the bass seem to be changing patterns over the years is because we are actually changing the genetics. I hope this new fish tracking study TPWD is doing involved a DNA sample on the tagged fish. It would be very interesting to see the % florida genetics in those fish. I'm not against Florida genetics, but I do think it would be productive at least look at stocking some better Northern genetics in some of our lakes instead of all Florida. I think you would see catch rates go up and fishing improve during the fall and winter. We have seen this play out with some of our pond stocking here at the farm. We have one pond that is all northern genetics. Those fish are like a different creature than our ponds with Florida bass. Especially in the colder weather. Just some food for thought. Take it for what it's worth.


This. Hit it out of the park.


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Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13791869 12/02/20 03:35 PM
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Everyone blames it on disappearing grass or over harvest. Sure maybe. Nobody wants to point to the obvious though, vast, vast, fishing pressure. Finite acres of water and an ever increasing population. Also... and I know this won't be popular... Tournaments.

I like the idea of issuing a fixed number of tournament boat slots for each lake per year, set by the TPWD based on facts. Sell the tournament slots to the highest bidders. Use the proceeds to restock the lake.

These constant and massive tournaments on our lakes do huge amounts of harm in my opinion. Thousands of boats keeping thousands of fish in live wells for long periods. Every weekend, almost every day on some lakes. It's relentless and we are burring our heads in the sand if we think it isn't causing harm.

Last edited by Jpurdue; 12/02/20 04:23 PM.

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Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Tx Tree Grower] #13791881 12/02/20 03:40 PM
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I am in agreement with Tx Tree Grower's notes regarding genetics, and I will add a bit...besides cold/warm genetic preferences/behaviors, you also have the simple aggressive/bite variations between fish. In short, if you harvest caught fish (large or small), we are inherently taking the relatively aggressive fish that are willing to bite and leaving the relatively non-aggressive fish in the lake. As a result, even if big fish are present in good numbers, they may be the less aggressive/catchable ones that are left behind and, thus, they are more difficult to catch. Somewhat analogous to the whole rattlesnake round-up and the suggestions that west Texas is seeing more rattle-less rattle snakes because the ones that rattle get harvested - I am not certain this is true, but I have heard it time and time again.

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13791925 12/02/20 04:18 PM
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I am no fisheries biologist and think TP&W is probably the best wildlife agency in the country. I don't think its broken and I keep my trust in them as they are the professionals.

I am against any introduction of permits, taxes and more government involvement. Tournament anglers pay the same taxes as non tournament anglers so neither side has an argument there. We all get taxed enough in regards to fishing as it is. Also against banning certain electronics etc as well or closed seasons. We have some of the best bass fishing in the country right here in Texas. We all have a lot to be thankful for.

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13792000 12/02/20 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Liebers Dad
I've been thinking a LOT about fishing lately. Thinking on the various lakes around me, how they are managed (or not managed) and especially what could be done to make them even better. TPWD for the most part does actually listen to those who use their parks and lakes.

I miss the days when Bastrop was a rally good lake. You could catch numbers as well as decent fish and by numbers I mean 25-30 and by decent I mean the norm would be 2-3#, 4-5# was not uncommon and the occasional 6#er was a welcome surprise, but not unheard of.

Many moons ago TPWD actually polled the boaters on the lake about what could be done to make the lake better. I was stopped more than once for my opinion. I heard all sorts of answers, but honestly back then the fishing was really good. These days, the fish are abundant, but there is zero size.

So what can be done about it?

I have a crazy idea, but changing the rules from time to time seems to work well for deer hunting so why not fishing? Until recently does in Milam county were not allowed to be harvested AT ALL without a permit, but recently that changed and does are now allowed during a special two week period at the beginning of the season because the doe population has grown so much.

Why can't something similar be done on lakes? Why couldn't rules be changed on a lake by lake basis? Why couldn't there be a two week period where slot limits are lifted? Any LMB over 12" can be taken with only one over 21" allowed? This could drastically improve the lake and quickly over the course of only a few years. There could be wardens or TPWD employees stationed at the lakes to take a count on how many fish are being taken, what size, etc. Seriously, when's the last time you heard a fish count being taken on ANY lake? This would drop the population of fish in the lake allowing the remaining fish to grow larger and stronger. The limit on big fish remaining in place would protect the larger fish already there so they can produce more big fish.

I'm betting if we get enough momentum for this we could put together a petition and force the powers that be to at least discuss it.

This is my starting point, though.

Hairbrained wacky idea from a goober or not a bad idea to discuss?


The issue is (in my opinion) that the majority of bass fisherman are strictly catch and release. They aren't keeping the fish outside the slot that they ARE allowed to keep now. So removing the slot will not likely result in more fish being kept. The solution would be to require fisherman to harvest fish outside the slot that it's currently legal to harvest. Like Lake Fork does with crappie from December thru February.


"Life is a matter of luck and the odds of success are in no way enhanced by extreme caution." - Erich Topp, German U-boat Commander, 1943.

When in doubt, set the hook.
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Jpurdue] #13792070 12/02/20 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jpurdue
Everyone blames it on disappearing grass or over harvest. Sure maybe. Nobody wants to point to the obvious though, vast, vast, fishing pressure. Finite acres of water and an ever increasing population. Also... and I know this won't be popular... Tournaments.

I like the idea of issuing a fixed number of tournament boat slots for each lake per year, set by the TPWD based on facts. Sell the tournament slots to the highest bidders. Use the proceeds to restock the lake.

These constant and massive tournaments on our lakes do huge amounts of harm in my opinion. Thousands of boats keeping thousands of fish in live wells for long periods. Every weekend, almost every day on some lakes. It's relentless and we are burring our heads in the sand if we think it isn't causing harm.


Pretty much word for word what I was going to post! Pressure is the #1 problem! Come fish Roberts after this covid year, you will think it is the dead sea! Limit tournaments or go like they do up North with actual fishing seasons so they get a break.


See you on the lake and have a great day!
Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Liebers Dad] #13793391 12/03/20 07:26 PM
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There are two different discussions going on here (imagine that).
1. Fish catch rates, sizes i.e. why am i not catching fish like I use to?
2. What happened to the lake that resulted in declining fish numbers? (as evaluated by biologists)
People can go to incredibly "bass" healthy lakes and still not catch fish due to pressure, water conditions, etc.

Yes, #1 is dependent on #2, but they are two different questions.

I would like to focus on ensuring that lakes have a large quantity of bass and that the bass are proportionally distributed across all age classes.
i.e making the lake "bass" healthy. If I cant catch them due to COVID fishing pressure or cold water, that's another issue.

I dont know what the ideal age / size distribution is for a healthy lake.
Maybe its something like: For 1,000 1# fish, there are 500 2# fish and 200 3# fish and 50 4# . . . so on. (??)
Now think what happens if your lake has been really low for several years (but stable) and then for the months of March and April, you get heavy rains that muddy the water and causes the lake level to rise 1' almost every day. That years spawn results in 50 1# fish, not 1,000. How many 4# fish will you now have in three years? 5?
Now throw in poor shad spawns, abnormally cold water in the spring due to weather, loss of weeds, people keeping large fish and releasing all the small ones, etc. etc.

To the OP's question; It sounds like your seeing a lake that is "out of balance" in terms of having all age classes of fish.
There are many reasons why this can happen. Some are out of our control, others are not.
What can be done regarding the factors man controls to ensure good spawns, high levels of forage and proper age class balance in our lakes?

Do our best to have stable water levels from March 1 to April 30? (agreements with the Army Corp and power companies?)
Do not "blanket eradicate" weeds / grass? (laws protecting public waters?)
Fertilize lakes artificially?
Stock forage fish?
Close lakes to fishing two weeks before and after the April full moon?
Apply slot limits that protect larger (spawners) fish?
Install spawning structures in lakes?
Lots and lots of ideas. Some crazy, some not so much.

Re: Making lakes better for fishing [Re: Chis D] #13793393 12/03/20 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chis D
I am in agreement with Tx Tree Grower's notes regarding genetics, and I will add a bit...besides cold/warm genetic preferences/behaviors, you also have the simple aggressive/bite variations between fish. In short, if you harvest caught fish (large or small), we are inherently taking the relatively aggressive fish that are willing to bite and leaving the relatively non-aggressive fish in the lake. As a result, even if big fish are present in good numbers, they may be the less aggressive/catchable ones that are left behind and, thus, they are more difficult to catch. Somewhat analogous to the whole rattlesnake round-up and the suggestions that west Texas is seeing more rattle-less rattle snakes because the ones that rattle get harvested - I am not certain this is true, but I have heard it time and time again.


Good points and good conversation in this thread.

I thought I read awhile back that not only were biologist looking to stock based on trophy fish genetics, but also based on aggressiveness.

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