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Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Allison1] #13590075 06/10/20 07:12 PM
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You might throw your back out lifting a 36v AGM battery—be careful

I think they do make 36V AGMs for some cranes and other similar equipment.


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Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Flippin-Out] #13590088 06/10/20 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Flippin-Out
Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.


BMS systems are rated for amperage. I don't know if they are affected when discharging. I play with lithium cells and plug in a 30A rated bms once in awhile just to make sure all the cells are equalized. It is never hooked up when charging. Normally the batteries don't need equalizing.


Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: SteezMacQueen] #13590095 06/10/20 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WALLS
I've had 3 of the Amped Outdoors 60ah 12V batteries on my troller for a couple of months and they are ridiculous. You could actually get my set up for a little over $1K if you already have a charger that can handle lithium. I have an Ultrex and have run it for two 8-10 hour days without charging in between them. And of course one of the main advantages in Lithium is absolutely no drop off in power over those two days. Charger was all green within 4 hours after that test as well. Dropped 180# of weight in the back of the boat and gained a lot of room in the bilge area as well. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Amped Outdoors- just sharing my experience.


Walls what's your response to the issue stated by Steez. Do you keep your charger onboard? Waterproof? Sealed, etc?

Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
That battery charger looks like it wouldn’t last a month in a boat, but what do I know. It’s certainly doesn’t look sealed, waterproof, or even water resistant.


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Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Allison1] #13590225 06/10/20 08:54 PM
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That charger should be waterproof. Its designed to be mounted inside a boat. I don't know how you can tell how well its designed by looking at it but I have no problems with it.

We don't see a lot of other chargers but the more robust chargers that I have seen all had fan cooling built in like this one does.
Many of the ones I see on salt water boats have built in cooling fans. They make it possible to put the same capabilities in much smaller cases.



That trolling motor in the pic on the first post is a Rhodan. Its got a good following in the saltwater arena.




Last edited by Allison1; 06/10/20 08:58 PM.

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: fivebites] #13590229 06/10/20 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fivebites
Originally Posted by WALLS
I've had 3 of the Amped Outdoors 60ah 12V batteries on my troller for a couple of months and they are ridiculous. You could actually get my set up for a little over $1K if you already have a charger that can handle lithium. I have an Ultrex and have run it for two 8-10 hour days without charging in between them. And of course one of the main advantages in Lithium is absolutely no drop off in power over those two days. Charger was all green within 4 hours after that test as well. Dropped 180# of weight in the back of the boat and gained a lot of room in the bilge area as well. I have no affiliation whatsoever with Amped Outdoors- just sharing my experience.


Walls what's your response to the issue stated by Steez. Do you keep your charger onboard? Waterproof? Sealed, etc?

Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
That battery charger looks like it wouldn’t last a month in a boat, but what do I know. It’s certainly doesn’t look sealed, waterproof, or even water resistant.



I do not have that battery charger, so I cannot comment on it specifically. I have the Ionic battery charger and it has performed as it should so far. Mounted onboard exactly where the old, heavy one was.

https://drewcraft.com/product/ionic-battery-charger/

Last edited by WALLS; 06/10/20 08:58 PM.
Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Burbarry] #13590820 06/11/20 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Burbarry
Originally Posted by Flippin-Out
Originally Posted by Burbarry
Have you guys tried lithium for starter battery? I need to replace my starter battery that also runs electronics and have been looking into lithium.

Most Lithium batteries are not designed to perform as starting batteries. The technology lends itself far more readily to deep cycle applications. If you do go lithium for the starting battery, make sure you get a heavy duty one that is designed to BE a starting battery.

Part of the issue is these batteries all have a built in "BMS" (Battery Management System). This is a circuit board that sits between the bank of lithium cells inside the box and the connection to the outside world. It will protect the cells from an overcharge voltage by disconnecting much like a circuit breaker. Your outboard could present such an overcharge voltage from the BMS viewpoint. That would be like disconnecting your battery while the outboard is running. Disconnecting the battery is often a no-no that will destroy parts of the outboard's charging system, and nobody wants that. The legitimate Lithium batteries designed to be starting batteries take these matters into account, and have design features to avoid the aforementioned pitfalls.


Would it be better to just get a big AGM instead of dealing with the lithium battery down falls. I'm sure that the ones built for starting would be fine but sure that cost difference would make cost me about 3 of the AGM batteries. Weight isn't that big of an issue on my boat. Although when the trolling motor batteries need replaced that will be lithium.


My personal opinion is you get the biggest bang for the buck, and certainly greatest weight reduction, from Lithium for the trolling motor. It's the most efficient, and the best technology match. If a boat owner has the money and wants it, it's a win-win I think. While I do not mean to discredit any of the battery models intended for a main battery, the starter battery requirements aren't as natural of an application for the Lithium technology we have currently. To work as a starter, they are designed much more heavy duty to force a fit to the needs, functionally and in physical pounds, and you see less weight reduction when substituting one of these. Quality AGM batteries are quite rugged, and a good match for the application. They readily deliver the high amps needed to start a big motor. You already get the sealed-case and never-add-water benefit from AGM also. So, in my mind, it's less compelling to replace the starting battery. My preference is AGM for the starter, and a quality lithium jump-starter (2-3 pounds) as my backup to get going should that AGM ever give up out on the water. I'm not sure a Lithium starter would allow the use of a jump-starter because the BMS of the battery may open-circuit to protect the battery from the high-amp jump-start event. That would have to work in order for me to consider switching my starter battery to Lithium.

Last edited by Flippin-Out; 06/11/20 07:36 AM.
Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Allison1] #13591210 06/11/20 03:22 PM
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I just replaced my cranking/electronics battery and went with the X2 from Batteries Plus. I looked in to the lithium’s but from what I was told and read a good AGM battery made more sense. When I replace my trolling motor batteries I think I’ll definitely go to lithium’s. Guy that owns the local Batteries Plus is a big fisherman and we talked about lithium’s and he said he’d like to see Batteries Plus start carrying them.

Batteries Plus has the X2 10% off if you order online and pickup in store plus a $30 mail in rebate. They had the battery ready when I arrived and everything was already completed.

Last edited by C130; 06/11/20 03:25 PM.

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Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: Allison1] #13591381 06/11/20 05:37 PM
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those sure are pricey

Re: cheaper 36v lithium option [Re: C130] #13591406 06/11/20 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by C130
I just replaced my cranking/electronics battery and went with the X2 from Batteries Plus. I looked in to the lithium’s but from what I was told and read a good AGM battery made more sense. When I replace my trolling motor batteries I think I’ll definitely go to lithium’s. Guy that owns the local Batteries Plus is a big fisherman and we talked about lithium’s and he said he’d like to see Batteries Plus start carrying them.

Batteries Plus has the X2 10% off if you order online and pickup in store plus a $30 mail in rebate. They had the battery ready when I arrived and everything was already completed.


Have not heard anything but positive reviews of the X2. cheers

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