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Jan 23rd, 2013
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white for beginners #13550717 05/08/20 07:57 PM
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nombon Offline OP
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I was looking for some tips of whites I have never tried before. what am I looking for when fishing from them this time of year what are the bitting on I am going catfishing tomorrow on Limestone. its an outstanding catfish lake not sure about anything else

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Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13550940 05/08/20 10:56 PM
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One of the best tips I ever learned from probably the best white jig fisherman on Buchanan was look for saw teeth on the graph. Those most likely are whites holding tight tight to the bottom. Most people drive right over these fish

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13551179 05/09/20 03:29 AM
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First look for the birds. If the wind gets calm right before sunset look for birds hitting the water and you should see whites driving shad to the surface. I throw a shad colored smallish crank bait, but anything will do. They generally drive the shad up to shallow shelves in 5-10 feet where they can feed. When they are deeper look for humps and right on the edges of humps. Tues/Wed I found them stacked multiple fish deep but still they weren't biting well until 7:30 PM. Once they got interested, it was fish every cast. I don't fish whites often but those are the 2 places I find them the most. In the heat of the summer, I tend to see them school the most when you get a switch of south to north wind if we get a northern come through. Not sure why but this always gets the schooling. Hell, they schooled last year all the way into Nov. That was weird but the water stayed warmer longer than normal.

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13551319 05/09/20 11:54 AM
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Agree with the above post. Birds are the best bait locators, and are often not far from them. Whites and other species push the bait up, and with nowhere to go give the birds easy pickings. An occasional bird diving isn't something to race over and look. But if you see a couple birds hovering and diving it's a good indication that they are feeding. Don't motor up into a group, they might spook. If they go down just keep casting, they are still looking for bait. I used to fish with a man who was 50 yrs my senior and only threw out in front of a school and let it sink down. He worked for the larger fish and picked up the better fish doing this. If you don't have good electronics get online, I think the website is called I-boating nav maps. Check out the topographic map of the lake and look for humps, and long main lake points. I have found that if you will arrive early to a boat ramp you can ask some locals. Fancy high dollar Bass boats are typically the ones I would skip. I have spent many years in tournament dock talk arena, and snitches get stitches concerning a pattern for a big bass tournament. Just go out open minded! Don't expect to sand bass fish all day. Since your going to catfish, keep some binoculars in the boat to scan around.. I am taking my son to Richland Chambers on Monday, told him he gets to call the shots. He has never fished the lake, and at 11 yrs old he picked the spot I never would have thought.. But we shall see. He has been digging thru the map on the depth finder for several hours making waypoints already.. Have fun, take pictures, and share the results please..

Prosise

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13551436 05/09/20 01:27 PM
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nombon, I have several tips I occasionally repeat on TFF for new-comers. I'll give them again today for you and the others new to white bass fishing:
(Note: Most of these posts were originally done several years ago and reflect the equipment I had then. I now use iPilot instead of an anchor and use color depth finder with side-scan, GPS and detailed topo maps of lakes chip.)

Post #1
1. The easiest way to catch white bass is to find them feeding on the surface. You can catch them with almost anything - spoons, slabs, spinners, soft plastics, crank-baits, etc. Cast it out and reel it in at or near the surface. It's fast, exciting and effective. This was my primary way to catch them the 1st ten years. We cruised the lake looking for birds circling/diving over he same area, or we looked for a group of boats. If neither were to be found, we looked for the actual surfacing fish. Calm weather was always at a premium because you could see the fish hitting from a long ways off. Of course, we bought the most powerful binoculars we could find and could see birds on the other side of the lake. In spite of all these efforts, some days you just could not find surfacing fish. In fact, on Livingston, most days you could not find surface schooling fish. Many days on Eagle Mountain - after 30 minutes of early morning top water action it was over. If you only know how to catch them this way, you look and look then give up and go home.

2. The best way to make sure you come home with a mess of fish is to learn how to find and catch fish on water bottom structure - points, humps, drop-offs, old roadbeds and old submerged bridges. I will cover my view of how to do this in a later post. For now, I want to make another point: Before taking on structure fishing for whites, you need to develop confidence in a bottom catching bait and technique. Why? Because if you think you have found fish on a structure, if you can't catch any and don't have confidence in your technique, you will question whether you actually found fish. You will question your depth finder and become frustrated and confused. But, if you know you can catch them if they are down there, then you don't lose confidence if you don't catch any in that spot - you just move on and look for them on another structure. So, how do you develop confidence in a bottom catching bait and technique? You develop it while you are fishing surfacing fish (as in 1 above). Instead of retrieving the bait at or near the surface, you let it go to the bottom and work it there. Actually, you are more apt to catch better fish down at the bottom anyway. Slabs, spoons, lead-head with soft plastics and inline spinners are the most popular baits for fishing the bottom. Try them and find one you can have confidence in. Once you have a technique you know you can catch them with, then you can take on structure fishing. In a later post I'll cover my favorite structures and how to locate them, and also cover my preferred baits and how to work them on structure.

POST #2 How do you find white bass on structure? Here are my recommendations:

1. You need reasonably good electronics and know how to use them. IMO a high resolution B/W depth finder is the minimum needed. Color and side view may speed the process up but are expensive. If you can afford them and feel it is worth the money, then get them. I don't use either - just high resolution B/W. To me, the cost is still too high for the side view. I may upgrade to color when I have to buy my next unit. Good electronics are important so you can distinguish baitfish from the fish you want to catch. Also, so you can zoom in on the water bottom and distinguish between trash and fish lying right on the bottom. You want it to show you what it sees rather than interpret it for you and put pictures of fish on the screen. After you see what a good bunch of fish look like (as when you are over them and catching them readily) you will remember what this looks like and that's what you will be looking for when you go searching other structures.
2. Get a good topo map of the lake and study it for points, humps, drop-offs, roadbeds, etc. A good structure is one where the depth is significantly shallower than water next to it. For instance, humps have deeper water all around them, points have deeper water on 3 sides of them, roadbeds have deeper water on both sides and drop-offs have deeper water on one side. There may be fish anywhere on these structures, but I find that the most likely place for them is at the edges just before it drops off into deeper water. This is particularly true if the point or hump is broad. Most of the productive structures I know of in the Texas lakes I fish are 10 to 18 ft deep with deeper (25+ feet) water next to it. Structures with 25 to 30 ft tops (with 40+ ft next to them) can also be productive if the water is clear enough. In stained water it gets dark fast as depth increases.
3. With map in hand get on the water and locate the structures you see on the map. Use landmarks and GPS points if you have a GPS and the map has some listed. I have been doing it for so long without GPS, I don't feel the need to use them myself. I have a handheld GPS but just don't use it. If you do use one, mark the structure as waypoint and label it so you can get back to it.
4. Favorite structures: I know 3 lakes pretty well. My home lake now is Cedar Creek and I've come to realize it is such a good white bass lake because it is loaded with structures. So far I have found 30 structures where I frequently catch white bass, and I find new ones each year. Some of my favorites among these are (you guessed it) Saint Annes Point, Key Ranch Drop-off, Dam Drop-off, Dam Ridge and southwest corner of Hump Across from Spillway Dam. Eagle Mountain Lake has a lot fewer good structures. I know of ten starting at Pelican Island and going south and east. My favorites are the south edges (drop-offs) of the large flat extending south from Pelican Island, the well known 27 ft hump that is about 100 yards out from the main dam about 100 yards east of its west end, the large tall point just to the east of this dam hump and a hump 24 ft deep not on the map out in the middle of open water between the Boat Club marina and the south end of the lake. At Livingston I counted about 20 structures I fish from the Hwy 190 bridge southward to about 1200 yards south of the Old Hwy 190 roadbed. My favorites are Old Hwy 190 submerged bridges (7 of them and each bridge has 3 structures - both ends and the middle), Submerged Kickapoo Bridge - both north and south sides of it, the point in front of old Frank's Marina, Old submerged Hwy 190 Roadbed where it reaches Trinity River on the east edge of river.

Of all these structures, my very favorite and most reliable are 4 of the submerged bridges on Old Hwy 190 roadbed: the one on the west side of the Trinity River channel, Hell's half Acre bridge, and 2 bridges near the west end of old 190. Submerged bridges, if at the right depth, are ideal structures for attracting white bass. The ones on Old 190 are 10 to 12 ft deep on the road surface with rails on each side 3 ft shallower. Depth under the bridges varies from 22 to 30 ft. Shad feed on the algae on the hard road surface and on the rails. This in turn attracts the white bass. Fish can hang out in the shade of the bridge, and then when they want a meal, they swim up to the roadbed or rail and catch a shad. We park our boat at either end of bridge or in the middle of it (of course after we find it using our electronics). We catch fish casting on top of bridge road surface, casting down the roadbed and to shoulders at ends of bridge and casting over and pulling bait across bridge rails (which you can do with an inline spinner but not a slab or spoon without getting hung up). I call this last one "rail fishing" and made a post describing it last year. How effective is this bridge fishing? I went to Livingston twice last year. The 1st trip I fished with my sister in mid July, and we went out from 7:30 to 11 AM and caught 110 on the bridges and came in. In early August I fished with long-time friend Randall Lovelace, and we fished the middle half of the day and caught 206 on the bridges. All these sandies were from 13 to 16 inches. All caught on Mepps spinners.

I'll cover my preferred baits (including Mepps) and fishing techniques on next post.

POST #3

What are my preferred baits and how do I work them? To cover this I thought I would start at the beginning of my white bass fishing and work my way forward. Before I start, let me say that my preferred way to catch whites started with a spoon, then changed to a slab and then to a Mepps spinner, which I have used now since 1976. The Mepps has worked so well I've not needed to try anything else, such as soft plastics or crank baits.

When I started in 1967 my teachers - father-in-law and wife's Uncle Charlie - used various silver spoons. I think slabs were not around yet or just getting started and these guys not quick to change from what they knew. The spoons commonly used were Sidewinders, Mr. Champs, Tony Acetta (sp?) and their favorite - Dixie Sirens and Dixie Jets. For smaller spoons I recall they had some Little Cleos in their tackle box - they didn't have any larger Little Cleos, which came to be my favorite spoon much later.

Here are the exact instructions Uncle Charlie gave me for working a spoon on the bottom: "Make a cast and let it fall to the bottom, jerk it up about a foot and let fall back to bottom, then crank 3 or 4 turns of the reel and let it fall back to bottom. Repeat all the way back to the boat." It seemed kind of mechanical, but when I was having trouble catching 'em I'd remember this and it was effective. However, I experimented and came up with my own favorite way to work a spoon - after a cast and letting it fall to bottom I would point rod toward line, take up the slack and make a long sweep up with the rod tip. I would most often get a bite when the spoon slowed or stopped at the top of my sweep. Of course, there were times it took a different action to get them to bite. I remember to catch them one time straight down in 30 ft water we had to raise the spoon up from the bottom a few turns of the reel and then bounce the spoon up and down rather violently (caught 180 that outing!)

We liked the Dixie Siren best because it had a beautiful smooth chrome-like finish and you could jig it or swim it like you can a Little Cleo. When slabs became popular (and cheaper to make) it put Dixie out of business (in the early '70s I think). I still have 3 of them and am afraid to use them lest I get one hung and lose it. Like everyone else, though, we began using slabs in the early '70's. We worked them just like the big spoons mentioned above. We caught tons of fish and thought we were doing as well as you could do.

If you have read my article on Mepps web site, you know what happened next. We discovered we weren't doing as well as we could. For those who haven't read it, I was having a rather mediocre day on Livingston working slabs on the Old 190 roadbed. But to my dismay there was a troller picking up a fish every time he trolled by me - right where I was slabbing. To make a long story short I tried to emulate what the troller was doing by swimming a lure - a Mepps spinner - along the bottom and started catching them.

This brings me to the present. I now use Mepps plain Aglia silver spinners almost exclusively. The one I used on that day in 1976 was a #2. Through experience I have found that different sizes work better in different lakes or circumstances. In Livingston #2 and #3 seem to work the best. Both of these are lightweight and we have to add a 1/4 oz mash-on weight about a foot up the line from the spinner to cast them and get them down to the bottom faster. Here in Cedar Creek the #4 seems to work best most of the time. The good thing about it is that it is heavy enough to cast and get to the bottom without adding weight.

The circumstance requiring a #2 instead of a #4 is when the new hatch of shad are the primary forage of the white bass. The fish are looking for a smaller shad and the #2 works well. Here this usually happens in mid July and lasts a couple of months.

So, how do you work a Mepps? It is NOT like a slab, and I think it is different from a soft plastic in that for these baits most of the strikes are on the fall. With a Mepps the strike is definitely on the retrieve - as you start it up from the bottom. I like this because it is easier to feel the strike on the retrieve and in my opinion more fun. Sometimes they almost knock the reel out of my hands. At other times it is a light bite - but always on the retrieve up from the bottom. Of course, occasionally I'll get one where the fish hit it on the fall. Most of the time when this happens it's a catfish.

This is the technique: Locate the boat where you can make a medium to long cast to where you marked fish. After bait gets to the bottom, lower the rod in the direction of the cast and take up the slack. Then simultaneously raise the rod tip and begin cranking the reel. Crank about six times. If they haven't struck the lure by then, stop cranking, release the reel and let lure free fall back to the bottom and repeat the steps I just mentioned. Work it all the way back to the boat this way. I usually have to experiment with speed of retrieval at each place I stop. Sometimes they want it slow, sometimes fast and sometimes medium. I also test to see if they want a more vertical movement or more of a lateral, drag along the bottom movement. On deep humps with fish down on the bottom, I can park right over them and crank vertically and catch fish. But mostly I fish shallow (10 to 18 ft) structures and I'll park off to the side and make a medium to long cast and work Mepps across the structure. I find that a 5 or 6 to 1 ratio reel with 10 lb flurocarbon line works best. I keep the tension on the reel spool very loose so the weight of the bait readily pulls line out as it is falling to the bottom.

I said above that I "almost" use Mepps exclusively. The other bait I use, which I work like a Mepps, is a 5/8 oz or 3/4 oz Little Cleo. For some reason, it seems to do as well as Mepps in Eagle Mountain Lake. Not only can I work it like a Mepps, but also I can work it like a slab if needed. Sometimes at EM the only way I can get them to bite in the deep water is with a series of very sharp jerks using the Little Cleo.

One more thing about Mepps, it works just as good on surfacing fish. So, I never have to change from Mepps even when I run across some working under the birds.

I give more background and info re the discovery of the Mepps technique in my article in case you are interested. Dennis Christian Article on Mepps Web Site Some people think the Mepps technique is too hard to learn. Let me say that my mother, aunts, sisters and grandkids learned it. You might not get the hang of it on the 1st try but don't give up. Once people get the knack of it, they never go back to their slabs or whatever.

I tie line directly to Mepps. The extra snap-swivel hardware negatively affects the presentation in my opinion. The only time I have problem with line twisting is when I put a weight up above the Mepps as I do with a #2 or 3. I use mash-on 1/4 oz and, if I am not careful in the way I mash the ends, it will cause line twist, i.e. I accidently created a propeller(sp?) shape. Have to make sure the mashed ends are parallel to each other. Also, you can get line twist if you don't check the wire of the Mepps. On a hard strike the fish will bend the wire ,and if I don't notice and cast it that way, I likely won't catch a fish and my line may twist some.

Post#4
The keys to catching quantities of white bass by structure fishing (as opposed to looking for schooling fish on the surface) are 1st to be able to locate fish using your graph and second knowing how to catch them once you have found them. Those who report trying to catch fish with Mepps seem to have problems in both categories.

Let's address locating fish. The pattern, at least on CC, this year is finding a concentration of fish just off the bottom in water anywhere from 10 ft to 18 ft deep. I have identified a lot of structures at these ideal depths where the bottom drops off into 25+ ft right next to the 10 to 18 ft water. Fish like to hang out right on the edges where water depth starts to plunge deeper. So, what I do is criss cross my boat back and forth over the edge moving over a little from where I just crossed each time. I work my way like that along a drop-off, or hump, or ridge of a point. When I find fish, I mark them with a marker tossed over board. Then I search around the marker to see where the most fish are relative to the marker. Finally, I prefer anchoring so I go up wind of where I want to cast and drop anchor. Mepps work best most of the time pulling up at an angle rather than straight up. I also believe that in really clear water at 10 to 13 ft depths you can spook fish if you park right over them - so another reason to park off to the side and cast to fish.

If you have a good, detailed topo map of the lake you are fishing, you can see the humps, points and drop-offs on the map. Go to these places and start looking. Stay focused. Don't let suspended fish sidetrack you. The fish you are looking for are just off the bottom. In my experience, it is very difficult to catch suspended fish, AND they are not relating to structure necessarily like I want. The structure pinpoints the fish for you - just go there and search for them. The more structures you know the better. At present on CC I'm finding fish on most of the structures I fish. This is how I locate fish. I don't look for birds or boats - just go to the structures chosen for the day.

Post#5
The most common mistakes I find people making: not locating a concentration of fish on the bottom before starting to fish, using too heavy line, using #2 or #3 without adding weight, not expecting a very subtle bite a lot of times, not keeping the bait on the bottom when beginning retrieve, not checking the Mepps regularly to make sure wire is not bent or line is not twisted around blade. One more tip: I have found that I can feel the soft bite a lot better if I have the rod pointing almost directly at the line during retrieve - say at a 10 degree angle to the line direction. I can't explain why but it makes a difference

Post#6
Structure fishing for white bass: The importance of using a toss-overboard marker to mark the fish:
I recently fished with a fellow who did not have a marker to toss over board when we found fish. I was quite surprized that he felt it was not needed. The folly of not using one was quickly evident. We had located a good bunch of fish down on the bottom on a narrow point in 14 ft water that fell off abruptly into 30 ft water on both sides. I would have tossed a marker over close to but not necessarily right over the fish. That would give me a quick and easy reference point as to where the fish were - no matter where I was standing or sitting in the boat. Without the marker I was guessing as to where to cast rather than knowing where to cast. Even if you have GPS and fish finder right in front of you, it is easier to just take one quick glance at the floating marker and know where to cast. This works because the fish are relating to the structure (i.e. staying put) - not swimming around where you have to keep your trolling motor going to keep on them. Until I had this experience, I thought it was just obvious to throw out a marker, but I guess to some it isn't. So, I hope this helps you to work the fish more easily when you do find them on structure.

Post#7
Some of you may think I'm nuts for telling where I catch fish. The reason I do is part of practicing what I believe - do unto others what you would have them do unto you. Let me explain - I have loved fishing all of my life(I'm 69) and started fishing for whites in 1967. From then until 1998 I was a working man and the only time I could consistently get out and fish was Saturday. As a committed Christian, Sundays were and are for church activities. So, I remember how I would search the fishing reports during the week looking for clues as to where I would have my best chance of catching fish on the coming Saturday. I would have loved for someone to share places where they were having success.

Here at Cedar Creek where I fish mostly, I know about 50 spots where white bass tend to hang out. I have 30 of the best on a map, and I refer to these named spots when I post my reports - to help the weekend fisherman have a better chance of having a successful outing. Anyone who wants a copy of my map may send a PM, and I'll send it to him. No, this doesn't cause me or the guides a problem with too many people on our spots. For me, I only get out 2 or 3 times a week and only for 2 to 4 hours. If someone happens to be on the spot I was intending to fish, I just go to another. As for the guides here, none of them fish like I do - relying solely on locating fish on structures and then anchoring down and fishing. The guides rarely anchor and prefer to look for surfacing fish. Only occasionally do we cross paths, and I give them plenty of room. The few new spots Billy Seaman showed me - they're not on my map, and I've promised not to reveal where they are.

So, all - especially weekenders - who love to fish for whites, are welcome to use the location info on my posts to improve your odds of finding and catching fish.

P.S. When I occasionally fish Eagle Mountain Lake, I won't post spots because (1) there are too few good spots and (2) guide Johnny Stevens fishes like I do.

Post#8
An important key to making the Mepps work is to have it begin spinning instantly as you bring it up off the bottom. You should feel the spinner drag (resistance). For #3, 4 and 5 the spinning action has no trouble starting immediately (exception - the longcast hesitates), but for the #2 it often hesitates before beginning to spin, and the hesitation completely undermines the technique. To prevent this put a slight bend in the wire. If that doesn't help, bend it slightly in the opposite direction. I can't explain why this works - just got frustrated one day and started trying stuff. Good luck, and I'd love to hear how the Mepps technique is working for those who are trying it.

Last edited by Dennis Christian; 05/09/20 01:35 PM.
Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13551531 05/09/20 02:19 PM
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Great article, thanks for all the information.
plan to go out and put some into practice this afternoon.

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13551655 05/09/20 04:20 PM
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thank you. I will try those tips. will try. the closest lake to me in Benton and Stillhouse I have heard still house is pretty good whites and crappie lake. I dont ever fish either of these lakes much. there not the bast catfishing lakes so I mainly drive out to Waco or Limestone. Monday I am going to go try Stillhouse and tray . not taking my cat fishing stuff if I have it in the boat. thats what I will fishing for. I have never given them much effort. I have a graph it just a helix 5 di.

and your right those a lot of these tournament bass a lot of them are just Dicks. 2 yrs ago I beat the [censored] out of one out at Waco. I guess there was a tournament coming up I'm a day or so and they were out there fishing there was 4 boat loading up when I was loading. I guess they were all together. I was with my 8yr and my 15yr someone ask how we did. My son said we did ok. I think we had like 20 cats. 5 15-18in bass. on the way back in we decided to bass fish for a bit and a few. and kept 5 to eat and my dadughter held 2 of them up. and man did they come unglued. scream at me for ruining the bass population. one the lake one of the men tired to take the fish from my daughter and we went at it. need up putting in in a rear choke. still he stopped. had to call the cops because they blocked me in. the bass pupulation cant be that bad if we were catching them with no efforet and we really dont fishing from them much so I just leve most those guys a lone

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13552757 05/10/20 10:20 PM
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Those are all fantastic tips and I agree with them. However, this is one other thing I have learned on my last 7 outings down there and that is a "thumper" changes everything. It is worth making one or buying one. The best $300 I have ever spent on fishing equipment.

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13552842 05/11/20 12:40 AM
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If you are not thumping, then you are not really trying. I learned with a stick against the bottom of the boat. Then I got old and bought one from J Bobo.

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13552897 05/11/20 01:54 AM
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I built a thumper 4 years ago and it made all the difference in the world. There comes a time in the spring/summer when the thumper isn’t effective anymore. Winter and spring it is the best!

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13553919 05/12/20 12:02 AM
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Let me know if you want a thumper, mine start at $225 and will make it easy when the fish come to you!


Catch more hybrids, sand-bass and striper with the Thump’emup Thumper!
www.thumpemupfishing.com
Thumpemupfishingchannel@gmail.com
Thump’em Up Fishing on YouTube
Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13554163 05/12/20 03:22 AM
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I didn't even know what thumping was till someone sent me a link.

Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13554955 05/12/20 06:33 PM
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Catch more hybrids, sand-bass and striper with the Thump’emup Thumper!
www.thumpemupfishing.com
Thumpemupfishingchannel@gmail.com
Thump’em Up Fishing on YouTube
Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13556271 05/13/20 05:21 PM
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Dennis Christian, you and Prosise are stand up guys in my book! Enjoyed your info!


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1st teach a child to love God, teach him second to love Family, 3rd teach him to fish and hunt and by the time he is in his teens no dope dealer under the sun can teach him anything. CC


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Re: white for beginners [Re: nombon] #13556421 05/13/20 07:13 PM
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Nombon
Thumping is a great way to turn fish on most of the year. In Texas and Oklahoma many people thump more in the cooler months while people in the eastern states thump more in the summer months. I and many others are thumping year round now.
Visit my website in the link below to learn more about it and to get one ordered.


22 ft. Wellcraft Deep V CC
817-220-2312
Bridgeport/Eagle Mountain/Possum Kingdom/ Lake Texoma
www.bobosguideservice.com
www.bobosthumper.com
www.nekidtackle.com Home of the RonRig!
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