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Non-game fish permit #13547535 05/06/20 05:09 PM
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Holzer Offline OP
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My apologies if this topic has already been discussed in detail here.

A couple ways i could ask the question but I think I'll ask it like this:

Has anyone with a large bait tank (30 gallon+) - who are using bait to fish with and not sale, questioned about having a non-game fish permit while on the water?


Holzer
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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13547763 05/06/20 07:42 PM
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Mine would be 42 gal if you filled it to the top. Soon as you punch it, and the bow rises 15 gallons of that are going to land on the deck so I consider it under 30 gal, not sure if TPWD would agree or not. I have not been approached by them since I built it. I though of drilling a overflow at 30 gal just in case.


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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13547889 05/06/20 09:22 PM
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I would think you would have to be selling. Call the Game Warden. He will have the right answer! thumb


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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: banker-always fishing] #13548047 05/07/20 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by banker-always fishing
I would think you would have to be selling. Call the Game Warden. He will have the right answer! thumb


The way I read it: If your bait tank is 30 gallon plus, you need to have the permit. Guides are exempt.


Holzer
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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Boomerbrewer] #13548049 05/07/20 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomerbrewer
Mine would be 42 gal if you filled it to the top. Soon as you punch it, and the bow rises 15 gallons of that are going to land on the deck so I consider it under 30 gal, not sure if TPWD would agree or not. I have not been approached by them since I built it. I though of drilling a overflow at 30 gal just in case.



I had a similar thought.


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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13548063 05/07/20 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Holzer
Originally Posted by banker-always fishing
I would think you would have to be selling. Call the Game Warden. He will have the right answer! thumb


The way I read it: If your bait tank is 30 gallon plus, you need to have the permit. Guides are exempt.


Might be easier to purchase the guide license. $210 insurance policy. For a bonus, take one person out for a half day trip for $300 once a year and it pays for itself. smile

Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Jeff Schiller] #13548912 05/07/20 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Schiller
Originally Posted by Holzer
Originally Posted by banker-always fishing
I would think you would have to be selling. Call the Game Warden. He will have the right answer! thumb


The way I read it: If your bait tank is 30 gallon plus, you need to have the permit. Guides are exempt.


Might be easier to purchase the guide license. $210 insurance policy. For a bonus, take one person out for a half day trip for $300 once a year and it pays for itself. smile



wink


Holzer
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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13548954 05/07/20 05:55 PM
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Aw dude, now I have to measure my bait tank?

Nevermind, I haven't finished cleaning the hornet nests out of the battery box yet ...


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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13548968 05/07/20 06:02 PM
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Technically that will not work. Read the fine print and guides are exempt only if fishing with paid customers.

I have never been checked but I did get the permit in January of 2020. Only reason I got the permit was so that I knew I was 100% legal if I have to take a polygraph at the Possum Kingdom Catmasters tournament in October of 2020. Very few people know about the permit, its requirements, or how do go about getting it, including law enforcement.


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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13548982 05/07/20 06:09 PM
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Holzer, here is your answer (I think):

RULE §57.385 Special Provisions for the Collection, Possession, and Sale of Shad

"No person may collect and possess shad taken from public fresh water without a permit issued under this section UNLESS the person possesses a valid recreational fishing license issued by the department and the shad are not sold or exchanged for anything of value; and possessed in a container or containers that in the aggregate constitute 30 gallons or less in volume. The volume limit does not apply when shad are possessed on the waterbody from which the shad were taken."

https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=T&app=9&p_dir=N&p_rloc=183732&p_tloc=&p_ploc=1&pg=8&p_tac=&ti=31&pt=2&ch=57&rl=377

Scenario A: You caught the shad on the lake you are fishing, and have not transported the shad away from the lake:

Since the volume limit does not apply when shad are possessed on the water body where they were taken, the criteria are:

(1) do you have valid recreational fishing license?, and
(2) are you selling or exchanging the shad for anything of value?

So a recreational fishermen could have a huge shad tank, and so long as you caught the shad on the same lake you're using them, no permit is needed.

Scenario B: You caught the shad at water body A and transported them to water body B for your personal use:

You need a permit if your tank is more than 30 gallons.

Last edited by Uncle Zeek; 05/08/20 06:58 PM. Reason: edited for clarity

"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein
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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13548987 05/07/20 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Holzer
Originally Posted by Jeff Schiller
Originally Posted by Holzer
Originally Posted by banker-always fishing
I would think you would have to be selling. Call the Game Warden. He will have the right answer! thumb


The way I read it: If your bait tank is 30 gallon plus, you need to have the permit. Guides are exempt.


Might be easier to purchase the guide license. $210 insurance policy. For a bonus, take one person out for a half day trip for $300 once a year and it pays for itself. smile



wink


Yes, possessing any shad in ANY container larger than 30 gallons requires a permit. Dosent matter if it is in a bait tank, or a cooler larger than 30 gallons and your keeping them on ice.

Technically going the guide rout will not work. If you can find the fine print it states guides are exempt only if fishing with paying customers.

I have never been checked but I did get the permit in January of 2020. Only reason I got the permit was so that I knew I was 100% legal if I have to take a polygraph at the Possum Kingdom Catmasters tournament in October of 2020. Very few people know about the permit, its requirements, or how do go about getting it, including law enforcement.

If anyone would seriously like information on how to get the permit send me a PM. Im not on the forum frequently anymore so id rather just send you my number and explain all the details over the phone or in text.

Last edited by big10; 05/07/20 06:13 PM.

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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13556101 05/13/20 03:28 PM
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Holzer,

I spoke with TPWD licensing a while back on this subject, and from what I was told...the 30 gallon volume relates to 30 gallons of actual shad...not shad in a bait tank. Fishermen catching bait in baitanks should not need this license. This is for folks catching large quantities of bait for resale I believe.

Wahooo!

Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Macdaddarino] #13556258 05/13/20 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Macdaddarino
Holzer,

I spoke with TPWD licensing a while back on this subject, and from what I was told...the 30 gallon volume relates to 30 gallons of actual shad...not shad in a bait tank. Fishermen catching bait in baitanks should not need this license. This is for folks catching large quantities of bait for resale I believe.

Wahooo!


Originally Posted by Macdaddarino
Holzer,

I spoke with TPWD licensing a while back on this subject, and from what I was told...the 30 gallon volume relates to 30 gallons of actual shad...not shad in a bait tank. Fishermen catching bait in baitanks should not need this license. This is for folks catching large quantities of bait for resale I believe.

Wahooo!




Hmmmmm, maybe. I guess it could be interpreted in that way.
I don't recall reading 30 gallon "of bait fish". The literature I recall just said 30 gallon.

I think all in all, it boils down to something that may or may not be enforced for the recreational fisher.
Another interesting outlook would be from a previous post about having it for tournaments. Lots of people could be disqualified if the tournament allows the use of live bait and they have bait tanks larger than 30 gallons.


Holzer
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Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13556293 05/13/20 05:38 PM
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I do not believe the permit is required for tournament live bait fisherman, Here is a link to another resource from TPWD. And again, when I called TPWD licensing, they indicated I did not need the license. Think 30 gallons of actual shad by volume - dont count the water.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_lf_t3200_1794_license_reqs_nongame.pdf

Re: Non-game fish permit [Re: Holzer] #13556332 05/13/20 06:04 PM
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Macdaddarino,
I must be interpreting the information completely different than you are.
A cut and paste from the link you posted:


Who needs a permit to Possess or Sell Nongame Fish Taken from Public Fresh Waters?

• Any person who wants to catch for sale, sell or offer for sale nongame fish taken from public fresh water
of the state.
Any person who is collecting shad for personal use and is harvesting large amounts (i.e., container or
containers that total 30 gallons or more in volume)


I'm just trying to figure out if a game warden on the water is going to interpret the rule as it is written above, Or in the manor as the person who told you that it is "30 gallons of shad".


Holzer
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