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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500486
04/03/20 07:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 25,824
T Bird
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 25,824 |
Rooster tail above top of engine cowl indicates motor to high. Can't speak to chine walk.
Okie by birth, Texan by choice. USAF "Thunderbirds" Alumni 1985-1989
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500519
04/03/20 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 917
C130
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 917 |
To everyone saying learn how to stop it before it starts and not drive through it, can you give more detail or provide an article? I want to learn as well because I am planning on getting in the boat with him tomorrow and seeing what happens. Like I said, I have had a 2016 FX and 2018 FX prior to now also owning a new FXR and I personally can tell a difference in the hull and drive. But....I am not experiencing a chine walk in mine but am still tinkering with my set up so I guess it is something that could happen and I want to learn as much as possible in case I experience it as well. I provided a link on page 2, it’s a very good, well written explanation.
Bass Cat Eyra
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500543
04/03/20 07:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724
Flippin-Out
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724 |
Does a C130 chinewalk if you lose an engine?
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#13500548
04/03/20 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 917
C130
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 917 |
Does a C130 chinewalk if you lose an engine?
Most definitely can if you don’t know how to handle it. I run a 4 blade Bravo 1 XS on my Eyra. I think the boat handles better than the Fury 3 I ran, especially in rough water, but I lose top end speed for sure. I put my Fury 3 back on and it handled completely different, felt like I couldn’t drive it at all after I had been running the 4 blade for months. Just takes time and getting used to it.
Last edited by C130; 04/03/20 08:06 PM.
Bass Cat Eyra
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500567
04/03/20 08:18 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,474
Jake Shannon(Skeet4Life)
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,474 |
Once its starts walking your not really gonna stop it. Like it was mentioned above by some pretty experienced boat owners you need to learn to bump the wheel to the left before it starts to walk. I went through this same learning experience with my Phoenix coming from a older Skeeter.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500580
04/03/20 08:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724
Flippin-Out
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,724 |
the original post mentions "...is finally able to run at WOT fully trimmed out." I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "fully trimmed out." The outboard's trim system has a range it moves through, but that's just a function of hydraulics. Not every boat/motor/rigging/payload combination is going to be able to use all of these available degrees of trim. To me, when I drive a boat, "fully trimmed out" means as much trim as I feel the boat will run with for best performance, not until the outboard won't move any more. Even a given boat setup will vary in how many degrees of trim it can use based on weather conditions, lake conditions, payload total and it's positioning, including fuel and livewell status. On some setups of some boats, going to the trim limit is too far. Just because those degrees of movement are available does not automatically imply that the boat should always be able to run in that configuration. There's an optimum amount of trim for performance, and it's not always maxed out. In reality, the higher the jackplate setting, the less trim you can use before you lose "hook-up" and speed drops, even though rpm may have continued to rise, and often does. This is where experience and ability to feel helps; the driver must decide the best balance between settings for jackplate and trim for the given configuration at the moment the boat is being driven.
Every high performance boat I've ever driven to the edge of all it can do has at least some tendency to chine-walk. But, for the accomplished driver, he'll feel it when others wouldn't even notice yet. It's a seat of pants sensation, not sway you SEE the bow making. If you see the bow rocking, you already didn't feel it and let it get too far. A good driver will arrest chinewalk before a passenger ever feels anything in how the boat is tracking on the water. These corrections are often just a process of adding more pressure to the wheel, or lessening it, sometimes tiny bumps, but typically not turning the steering wheel to and fro. That's just chasing a reaction, not getting the boat back balanced and tracking on the pad.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Dubee]
#13500583
04/03/20 08:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117
JC Skeeter
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117 |
Right!! DRIVE THRU IT! Put the engine back up to its original setting to get those lost RPMS back, grow a pair, and drive it like you stole it! Seriously though u just have to drive it. You should look like your fighting the steering wheel for lack of a better word. You can’t just hold it with one hand and cruise across the lake! You need to hold it at 10 and 2 and make little short corrections back and forth as it tries to walk off pad. But you’ll constantly be moving your hands “driving” it. This is exactly what I was reading in the link I posted earlier. According to that link and based upon what you are saying is, you literally will be turning opposite of the "walk" very quickly. Almost like a little kid pretending to drive a car of some kind where they are just turning the steering wheel back and forth rapidly?? But my question to this is, will this wear down your steering cable/throttle quicker? I mean granted we are never really running WOT that often but it all adds up you know. I am asking only to play devils advocate here, if top end speed is the overall desired outcome should he leave it where it is and learn to drive through it or lower the motor a tiny bit at a time and find that location where it stops the walk but still allows high rpm's and as much speed as possible? Where are y'all located. Lots of us on here that will go teach him how to drive it Live in Atascocita, near Kingwood so right near Lake Houston.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: C130]
#13500584
04/03/20 08:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117
JC Skeeter
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117 |
To everyone saying learn how to stop it before it starts and not drive through it, can you give more detail or provide an article? I want to learn as well because I am planning on getting in the boat with him tomorrow and seeing what happens. Like I said, I have had a 2016 FX and 2018 FX prior to now also owning a new FXR and I personally can tell a difference in the hull and drive. But....I am not experiencing a chine walk in mine but am still tinkering with my set up so I guess it is something that could happen and I want to learn as much as possible in case I experience it as well. I provided a link on page 2, it’s a very good, well written explanation. Thank you, I read it and it is one of the best explanations I have found.
Last edited by JC Skeeter; 04/03/20 08:32 PM.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500586
04/03/20 08:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,521
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,521 |
I am surprised your friend is experiencing chine walk in any new style Skeeter. That is not normal. It is possible something is wrong with the setup causing the chine walk but not likely. The first thing I would check would be the steering system. If there is any slack in the steering, possibly caused by air in the hydraulic lines, this could be the culprit. I would look there first. With regard to the roostertail, a lot of very high performance boats with a manual jackplate will throw a very tall roostertail under acceleration. Once the hull begins to lift & the prop locks up the roostertail will fall to about the height of the cowling. These are boats like Allisons & Bullets that run best when the center of the prop shaft is 2-3 inches above the bottom of the pad. That is WAY above the height most boats will run efficiently. I've owned five Bullets and only one had a hydraulic jackplate on it. Watch my friend's Bullet in this video. At 50 mph under acceleration the roostertail is 25 feet high due to the engine being so high on a static plate. Only boats capable of 85+ will benefit from the motor being this high. At about 80 the prop begins to lock up & the hull starts lifting from aerodynamics. See the roostertail drop down to about 3 feet.
Last edited by Ken A.; 04/03/20 10:01 PM.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Jake Shannon(Skeet4Life)]
#13500589
04/03/20 08:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117
JC Skeeter
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117 |
Once its starts walking your not really gonna stop it. Like it was mentioned above by some pretty experienced boat owners you need to learn to bump the wheel to the left before it starts to walk. I went through this same learning experience with my Phoenix coming from a older Skeeter. Did you play with motor height at all? Or just learn to stop it before it starts? I am asking because for me I am trying to find the perfect balance between high rpm and speed while being able to trim all the way up at WOT. Instead of leaving the motor low in the water and lose rpm and speed to avoid chine walk.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#13500591
04/03/20 08:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,521
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,521 |
the original post mentions "...is finally able to run at WOT fully trimmed out." I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "fully trimmed out." The outboard's trim system has a range it moves through, but that's just a function of hydraulics. Not every boat/motor/rigging/payload combination is going to be able to use all of these available degrees of trim. To me, when I drive a boat, "fully trimmed out" means as much trim as I feel the boat will run with for best performance, not until the outboard won't move any more. Even a given boat setup will vary in how many degrees of trim it can use based on weather conditions, lake conditions, payload total and it's positioning, including fuel and livewell status. On some setups of some boats, going to the trim limit is too far. Just because those degrees of movement are available does not automatically imply that the boat should always be able to run in that configuration. There's an optimum amount of trim for performance, and it's not always maxed out. In reality, the higher the jackplate setting, the less trim you can use before you lose "hook-up" and speed drops, even though rpm may have continued to rise, and often does. This is where experience and ability to feel helps; the driver must decide the best balance between settings for jackplate and trim for the given configuration at the moment the boat is being driven.
Every high performance boat I've ever driven to the edge of all it can do has at least some tendency to chine-walk. But, for the accomplished driver, he'll feel it when others wouldn't even notice yet. It's a seat of pants sensation, not sway you SEE the bow making. If you see the bow rocking, you already didn't feel it and let it get too far. A good driver will arrest chinewalk before a passenger ever feels anything in how the boat is tracking on the water. These corrections are often just a process of adding more pressure to the wheel, or lessening it, sometimes tiny bumps, but typically not turning the steering wheel to and fro. That's just chasing a reaction, not getting the boat back balanced and tracking on the pad. This guy gets it
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: pil,b]
#13500594
04/03/20 08:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,756
Huckleberry
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,756 |
If you want speed go buy a Alison with Mercury 300 R on it, seems 6,000 rpm is too much.
For someone who does not know how to drive a boat at high speeds, an Allison with a 300R will not be any faster for them if they slow down when it starts to chine.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Ken A.]
#13500597
04/03/20 08:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,290
Dubee
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,290 |
I am surprised your friend is experiencing chine walk in any new style Skeeter. That is not normal. It is possible something is wrong with the setup causing the chine walk but not likely. The first thing I would check would be the steering system. If there is any slack in the steering, possibly caused by air in the hydraulic lines, this could be the culprit. I would look there first. With regard to the roostertail, a lot of very high performance boats with a manual jackplate will throw a very tall roostertail under acceleration. Once the hull begins to lift & the prop locks up the roostertail will fall to about the height of the cowling. These are boats like Allisons & Bullets that run best when the center of the prop shaft is 2-3 inches above the bottom of the pad. That is WAY above the height most boats will run efficiently. I've owned five Bullets and only one had a hydraulic jackplate on it. Watch my friend's Bullet in this video. At 50 mph under acceleration the roostertail is 25 feet high due to the engine being so high on a static plate. Only boats capable of 85+ will benefit from the motor being this high. At about 80 the prop begins to lock up & the hull starts lifting from aerodynamics. See the roostertail drop down to about 3 feet. Ken, from what i have heard. The new fxr will walk. It's a different hull from all previous skeeters. He just needs someone to show him
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#13500601
04/03/20 08:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117
JC Skeeter
OP
Extreme Angler
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OP
Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,117 |
the original post mentions "...is finally able to run at WOT fully trimmed out." I'm not absolutely sure what you mean by "fully trimmed out." The outboard's trim system has a range it moves through, but that's just a function of hydraulics. Not every boat/motor/rigging/payload combination is going to be able to use all of these available degrees of trim. To me, when I drive a boat, "fully trimmed out" means as much trim as I feel the boat will run with for best performance, not until the outboard won't move any more. Even a given boat setup will vary in how many degrees of trim it can use based on weather conditions, lake conditions, payload total and it's positioning, including fuel and livewell status. On some setups of some boats, going to the trim limit is too far. Just because those degrees of movement are available does not automatically imply that the boat should always be able to run in that configuration. There's an optimum amount of trim for performance, and it's not always maxed out. In reality, the higher the jackplate setting, the less trim you can use before you lose "hook-up" and speed drops, even though rpm may have continued to rise, and often does. This is where experience and ability to feel helps; the driver must decide the best balance between settings for jackplate and trim for the given configuration at the moment the boat is being driven.
Every high performance boat I've ever driven to the edge of all it can do has at least some tendency to chine-walk. But, for the accomplished driver, he'll feel it when others wouldn't even notice yet. It's a seat of pants sensation, not sway you SEE the bow making. If you see the bow rocking, you already didn't feel it and let it get too far. A good driver will arrest chinewalk before a passenger ever feels anything in how the boat is tracking on the water. These corrections are often just a process of adding more pressure to the wheel, or lessening it, sometimes tiny bumps, but typically not turning the steering wheel to and fro. That's just chasing a reaction, not getting the boat back balanced and tracking on the pad. Great info, I admit I am at fault here in the sense of trimming. When I say "fully trimmed out" I am referring to the percentage gauge that the skeeter has on its dash. It goes up to 100%, so essentially that is what I mean by fully trimmed because when you get there you can continue to hold the trim lever up but the motor will not continue to trim past that point. Like I mentioned many times I am glad I asked this question because I too am learning quite a bit. I have typically set my motor height up to allow me to trim to 100% and get to 6000 rpm and typically that will provide whatever my max speed is on my boat. However, I am learning that max speed and rpms can be obtained with proper set up and not having to reach 100% trim.
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Re: Chine walk - why/how?
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#13500606
04/03/20 08:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,290
Dubee
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,290 |
Right!! DRIVE THRU IT! Put the engine back up to its original setting to get those lost RPMS back, grow a pair, and drive it like you stole it! Seriously though u just have to drive it. You should look like your fighting the steering wheel for lack of a better word. You can’t just hold it with one hand and cruise across the lake! You need to hold it at 10 and 2 and make little short corrections back and forth as it tries to walk off pad. But you’ll constantly be moving your hands “driving” it. This is exactly what I was reading in the link I posted earlier. According to that link and based upon what you are saying is, you literally will be turning opposite of the "walk" very quickly. Almost like a little kid pretending to drive a car of some kind where they are just turning the steering wheel back and forth rapidly?? But my question to this is, will this wear down your steering cable/throttle quicker? I mean granted we are never really running WOT that often but it all adds up you know. I am asking only to play devils advocate here, if top end speed is the overall desired outcome should he leave it where it is and learn to drive through it or lower the motor a tiny bit at a time and find that location where it stops the walk but still allows high rpm's and as much speed as possible? Where are y'all located. Lots of us on here that will go teach him how to drive it Live in Atascocita, near Kingwood so right near Lake Houston. To far for me
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