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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: rj74955] #13479248 03/20/20 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by rj74955
If he WAS NOT intentionally sight fishing that fish, it was a legal catch by state law and by MLF rules. Same as Brandon Coulter's big crankbait fish. He had a 8 1/2 pounder that pulled a hook out of his crankbait but the other hook was stuck in its side and he got it in. Legal fish.
That being said, Sprague is the only one that knows for sure if his fish was legal or not. I wouldn't have weighed it.


That's not an accurate statement. Read the Texas regulations. I provided the links and the quotes from TPWD's site above.

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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: SmalljawNH] #13479279 03/20/20 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SmalljawNH
Originally Posted by rj74955
If he WAS NOT intentionally sight fishing that fish, it was a legal catch by state law and by MLF rules. Same as Brandon Coulter's big crankbait fish. He had a 8 1/2 pounder that pulled a hook out of his crankbait but the other hook was stuck in its side and he got it in. Legal fish.
That being said, Sprague is the only one that knows for sure if his fish was legal or not. I wouldn't have weighed it.


That's not an accurate statement. Read the Texas regulations. I provided the links and the quotes from TPWD's site above.


You are wrong 100%.



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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13479301 03/20/20 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Y'all are interpreting the law the wrong way. We've all weighed in fish that had hooks outside the mouth, topwaters and crankbaits do this all the time. Lipless often do it too. The law is for intention. I've caught plenty of fish on a tx rig outside the mouth, not sight fishing.

This is the correct answer.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13479321 03/20/20 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Y'all are interpreting the law the wrong way. We've all weighed in fish that had hooks outside the mouth, topwaters and crankbaits do this all the time. Lipless often do it too. The law is for intention. I've caught plenty of fish on a tx rig outside the mouth, not sight fishing.



Crankbaits, lipless are different than a worm hook. Crankbaits and lipless have two hooks. Everytime, I have caught a fish on them at least one hook was in the mouth. The only way to really know is get a response from TPWD and how their Rangers interpret the Law.


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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Clark3] #13479342 03/20/20 01:44 AM
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If I was betting, the majority of the MLF pros know he cheated. But it didn’t have anything to do with the outcome of the tournament and at this point they don’t want any bad press so they ruled it a legal catch. He probably had a nice little chat with the leaders. Now the rest of the pros know who they are dealing with. He’s not the only one in that group that has been accused of breaking the rules. He will be watched real close from now on

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Clark3] #13479420 03/20/20 02:37 AM
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I had no idea so many people don't know how to interrupt the laws. Accidentally hooking one in the side is not against the law. Doing it intentionally is.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: BThomas] #13479423 03/20/20 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BThomas
Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter


Pole and Line

A line with hook, attached to a pole (includes rod and reel)

* May be used to take game and nongame fish.

* It is unlawful to use a pole and line to take or attempt to take fish by foul-hooking, snagging, or jerking.[b] A fish is foul-hooked when caught by a hook in an area other than the fish's mouth.

“An area other than the fish’s mouth.”

That could be interpreted to mean outside the mouth is ok, right?



DH -- I would interpret that it is illegal.(not okay) and by that Spragues catch should have been ruled illegal by Texas law and regulations. Because
the hook was not inside the mouth. It does not seem that MLF has a rule that says State Laws supersede MLF rules when a rule is in question. Also,
MLF can get away with that since they do not keep their catch. Hence the "take or attempt to take" in the first part.

I have foul-hooked/snagged a fish in a tournament and did not keep it due to the State Law. Again, this is my interpretation of the law.


thumb

That’s fine. I respect that. I disagree, as I think the law is to limit people who intentionally snag fish in an unsportsmanlike manner, not for people who are otherwise fishing normally. Crankbaits and other moving treble hook baits, as has been mentioned, can often be hooked on the side of the mouth. I’ve never heard, outside of California, this being illegal, but the statute clearly makes it seem like it could be.

The law is poorly written (as are many laws, especially fish and game laws) and i’d like to hear from a warden on it. How many fish have been weighed during tournaments where a crank was hooked in the side of the mouth because a fish swiped at it?

And in regard to MLF, it seems like he was not in possession, because he didn’t put it in a cooler, livewell, etc. That’s why he was able to weigh the fish (and that he was determined to not be sight fishing for that fish).

Last edited by Duck_Hunter; 03/20/20 02:40 AM.

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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: BThomas] #13479441 03/20/20 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Y'all are interpreting the law the wrong way. We've all weighed in fish that had hooks outside the mouth, topwaters and crankbaits do this all the time. Lipless often do it too. The law is for intention. I've caught plenty of fish on a tx rig outside the mouth, not sight fishing.


Quote
It is unlawful to use a pole and line to take or attempt to take fish by foul-hooking, snagging, or jerking. A fish is foul-hooked when caught by a hook in an area other than the fish's mouth.


Take or attempt to take covers both incidental and intentional foul-hooking. Whether you meant to or not, it's unlawful to take possession of a foul-hooked fish. If anyone can provide credible evidence to support the interpretation that it's only about intent and that TPWD supports weighting foul-hooked fish in a tournament, I can admit I am wrong. As of right now, I'm sticking to my guns on this and saying it's wrong to bring foul-hooked fish to weigh in.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Clark3] #13479448 03/20/20 02:51 AM
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You could ask 10 Game Wardens this question and I bet you would get multiple answers. hmmm


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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: BigDozer66] #13479453 03/20/20 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BigDozer66
You could ask 10 Game Wardens this question and I bet you would get multiple answers. hmmm


I bet 10 would emphasize the "intentional" part. No game warden in this state will give you a ticket for catching a bass hooked outside its mouth on a crankbait....

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Clark3] #13479462 03/20/20 03:07 AM
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The law as it is written doesn't really apply to MLF regardless of how you interpret it. Since they don't keep fish there is no possession therefore there was no taking or attempting to take a fish by foul hooking. As far as snagging intentionally while sight fishing it would just be his word vs someone else's. In this case the official sided with Sprague. From that point on everything becomes moot. You have a guy saying "that is not the fish I was targeting" and another guy 5ft from him saying "I agree. It's a legal catch." It ended right there.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Clark3] #13479468 03/20/20 03:12 AM
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“It is unlawful to use a pole and line to take or attempt to take fish by foul-hooking, snagging, or jerking. A fish is foul-hooked when caught by a hook in an area other than the fish's mouth.”

It seems to alter the meaning based on where you place emphasis in that if you foul-hook a fish OR attempt to foul-hook a fish you cannot “take” it. Does that mean simply harvest it (place in your livewell) or what? What if one treble is inside the mouth and one is out?

These laws were written before this type of tournament had become main stream. I think it goes back to IF he was sight fishing or not and if an MLF rule was violated and not a state law per se.

Like Dozer said, the different wardens likely interpret this differently.


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Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13479473 03/20/20 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by BigDozer66
You could ask 10 Game Wardens this question and I bet you would get multiple answers. hmmm


I bet 10 would emphasize the "intentional" part. No game warden in this state will give you a ticket for catching a bass hooked outside its mouth on a crankbait....


Not every LEO will pull you over for driving 5mph over the posted speed limit. That doesn't mean you are obeying the law.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13479488 03/20/20 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by BigDozer66
You could ask 10 Game Wardens this question and I bet you would get multiple answers. hmmm


I bet 10 would emphasize the "intentional" part. No game warden in this state will give you a ticket for catching a bass hooked outside its mouth on a crankbait....



GIve our texas GW some credit. Intentional is what its about. I wish MLF would post the full video they deleted. I bet a lot of you would have a different opinion.

Re: MlF posted video of spragues snagged fish [Re: SmalljawNH] #13479493 03/20/20 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SmalljawNH
Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Y'all are interpreting the law the wrong way. We've all weighed in fish that had hooks outside the mouth, topwaters and crankbaits do this all the time. Lipless often do it too. The law is for intention. I've caught plenty of fish on a tx rig outside the mouth, not sight fishing.


Quote
It is unlawful to use a pole and line to take or attempt to take fish by foul-hooking, snagging, or jerking. A fish is foul-hooked when caught by a hook in an area other than the fish's mouth.


Take or attempt to take covers both incidental and intentional foul-hooking. Whether you meant to or not, it's unlawful to take possession of a foul-hooked fish. If anyone can provide credible evidence to support the interpretation that it's only about intent and that TPWD supports weighting foul-hooked fish in a tournament, I can admit I am wrong. As of right now, I'm sticking to my guns on this and saying it's wrong to bring foul-hooked fish to weigh in.




You are reading the law wrong. "It is unlawful to use a pole and line to take or attempt to take a fish by foul hooking, snagging, or jerking." The law is saying that it is illegal if your take or attempt to take is by the act of trying to foul hook, snag or jerk your bait into a fish on purpose. It is not illegal in Texas to accidentaly hook a fish that strikes a lure outside of the mouth. Trust me. smile

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