A young boy with autism was denied his First Communion at a New Jersey Catholic church, leaving his parents along with many online, upset.

Eight-year-old Anthony LaCugna, who is non-verbal, was denied the sacrament at Saint Aloysius Parish in Jackson Tuesday, according to his father's Facebook post, because Saint Aloysius priest, the Rev. John Bambrick, said Anthony is "unable to determine right from wrong due to his disability."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-catholic-church-communion-boy-denied

this really hits home for me as it's the same stance my church has (LCMS). I understand the thought process, but I don't think it's right. Thoughts?

Wrong on so many levels...the kid is already dealing with more complications socially than you and I would ever fathom. They should be honored the child wants to be baptized.

My philosophy teacher once told me, if you don't like your church keep searching for another one till you find one that meets your needs.

he is baptized. he cannot receive communion or be confirmed.

And in no way am I bashing.

I am not catholic Bob so I want to be clear about ghat first-

But I absolutely think its wrong-
I’ll be curious if this is a common practice among priest

It's a matter of the heart, I don't think the ceremonial stuff really makes a difference.

Great thing to settle on - Bob his ticket is already payed for and the journey is already paved for him! Gracious Lord thank you!

that's just it In the catholic (and my lutheran) church, it's not ceremonial. We consider it the real body and blood of Christ. it's a big deal. we also don't have open communion.

Your good! Thanks for the input.

I swear this isn't meant to fall under the "bashing" prohibition you set out - it's just my lifetime of observations and personal experiences - but I've always thought of churches (and religion) as being places of exclusion. Whether someone is gay, divorced, some other subsect of a similar religion but not quite their own, something else, anything else, whatever, there's a church out there willing to exclude you for it.

I'm not bashing anyone's church in particular, but I guess I'm saying that I'm not surprised. To that, I'll add that I agree with ya' Bob, it's not right and it's nonsense.

Fortunately I don't have too much investment with such things as my people chew the heads off bats and drink goat blood under the pale light of the moon. Those are activities for the whole family - no exclusion necessary.

that is why I quit churches, Episcopalian as well as others growing up.

goes against what the bible says.

Matthew 18:1-3
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:14
But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.


and who is a priest to determine if a child is "good or bad"?

It seems to me that it's the priest that's unable to determine right from wrong. I thought we're all God's children. I think it's disgraceful.

This is why I go to a Cowboy Church...doesn't matter where you came from, what you are wearing, who you know, or what you do for a living....heck, we don't even care if you have been saved or are still dependent on drugs/etc.....we just want you to come on in and worship the Lord, learn about His glory, and hopefully you will turn to Christ and be delivered into happiness!! But, if you are still on the fence, we welcome you to keep on coming back....no pressure.

it's wrong.

One should not connect/confuse the thoughts, rituals, and beliefs of man, with those of God.

The “church” is not the replacement for God. It’s not right or wrong, it’s irrelevant.

Perfect verses for that Hop.

Bob, I don't see anything close to being "ok" with what that Priest is doing, in fact because he's making a conscious decision to exclude the child from communion, uh.. that's bad.

it's not that easy or straight forward unfortunately.

I’ve seen where they won’t baptize a child very young . They basically said the same thing because the child didn’t understand what was really going on , didn’t understand the gift they were receiving , and the whole right or wrong thing .

I understand the age thing to an extent . But the handicapped may or may not reach a point where they can fully comprehend the whole situation? So what in the world are they supposed to do to save those kids ?! So I do think that’s wrong .

In my own personal opinion tho I know that the big guy will definitely take in the children who have not been saved in the ceremony(s) , they don’t know any better there innocent. He’s showed me mercy and saved me so anybody else should be good brother !

good words, thanks!

They should try another Catholic church as each priest has their own ways unfortunately. Our church offers First Communion to anyone who completes the classes.

My wife's priest would not perform our wedding as I am Lutheran. We just registered at a different Catholic church and had no issues.

that's the problem in my case. He can't complete the classes. I get that, but there needs to be another means.

I'm not a fan of any catholic church's views on communion. I think it should be open to all, nit just Catholics. It's the Lord's table not a catholic table. As for this occurance I'm against the church again.

I think the priest has built his life on believing that things should be a certain way, and he's likely taking a stand here because it would violate his core principles to do so.

Personally, stuff like this is why I do have some minor issues with how Catholic/Lutheran religion works. They have traditionally, and still do IMHO, place too much stock in the opinion of humans as it relates to your spiritual relationship with God. Your relationship with God is between you and him. I think most Baptist churches that I've been to operate that way, as do Methodist that I've seen. I don't have a ton of exposure to other denominations, but I had Catholic friends in college and the perspective on salvation/communion/confirmation really varied widely from being quite similar to my Baptist beliefs, to stuff like this priest where you couldn't participate in certain activities without being viewed a certain way. The whole concept of a Pope, or priests that you confess to, or any human being who has the authority to deny communion or any other religious activity, is difficult for me as a Baptist to even comprehend.

Just some thoughts - not trying to bash. Baptists aren't perfect - at least yall don't pretend to not drink and dance.

there is a reason you always take two baptists fishing with you.

The classes should be taught in such a manner as to accomodate him learning the material. More than likely it is not an issue of intelligence at all but simply the inflexibility of the 'church' to meet the need presented.

not saying i agree
but we both see the reasoning
its a Sacrament
serious stuff

I would agree. Honestly, I don't know what my son knows bout religion. He knows that Jesus loves him, that much I do know.

He knows Jesus loves him is all that matters, the religious part is legalism and Paul warned against that.

The Catholic Church takes a very legalistic standpoint on matters of faith. It has written rules that members must follow, and they stick to them. Historically that has been both a strength and a weakness for them. That boy didn't follow the steps the Catholic Church requires one to follow. Therefore he didn't get to go through confirmation. They won't confirm anyone without completing these steps. While this is sad for the boy, you have to respect the church's conviction and refusal to compromise what they feel is right.

and there it is. I abide by my churches teachings even if I don't agree. good words.

my church wouldn't marry us
i was building cellular & was on the road all the time
i couldn't take the class
we were ok

WOW!!! Just WOW!

All you need is right there in front of you, and you will not see. I pray the scales will be removed from your eyes one day.

Pal, I'm just fine. worry about yourself.

what does this even mean

If you were fine you would not be coming into a forum putting this in front of the “world.”
Sorry that anger is your first reaction. Sorry the child has been put into this situation. It is very wrong. But someone else put him there. Someone else put him in the situation that he has to suffer from their choices. Your ideology will not allow you to admit this. Hence the wow.
I pray for you. I truly mean that.

I had not heard that one - very nice!

Hey Bob, is your son capable of using a communication device? Like say a tablet designed for that purpose. We just got one for Miranda. She loves it, we all do actually. It's made things so much easier for us
She's still able to type. It's difficult, but she can do it. But it also has different icons programed into it. I believe you can download more. I also believe there's an accessory you can buy that operates on eye movement. If typing isn't an option. I can get you the information of you like. Just message me.
Maybe it's something the church can look into, and consider adopting it in.

he can write and type. he can speak. he chooses not to for some reason. we've looked at the tablet option and chose not to at this time. we may revisit that at some point.

I will make as simple as possible. Above was posted about what Jesus himself said about children. Jesus. Son of God. So that’s about as high up the chain as it gets. Still with me. If God says it, we should listen.

Now we are talking about a child who a “church” has set rules that one, go against what God said, and two, makes a child suffer. So the choice is, God-and his word, or a church and it’s doctrine in regard to a child. Pretty simple. But the child did not make this choice. Parent/guardian did. Hence the wow. That’s about as simple as it gets and pretty simple. If not, I am Sorry I could not better explain for you.

and this is why I said "no bashing".

Rigid adherence to a doctrine you don't agree with--learn to think and believe for yourself.

go kill someone elses thread.

I am not bashing and you know it. You use that as an excuse when the truth stings a bit.

Don't be so sensitive, I was explaining to butch, who did not understand what the post was about.

and now you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

"sigh"

You put it on a forum and then you get mad when you don’t get the feel good opinions you are wanting.
Kinda odd that complete strangers are giving an opinion that would be better for the child than the existing situation.
I can think of no church that would make the decision stated in this thread and I would be a part of. Ever!
If God himself had given me the choice to send my son to the cross and save the world, the world would go to hell.
Anyway, I hope you find what YOU are looking for

Please forgive me if you truly see this as bashing. That is not the intent.

Interesting. The rules of the church are the rules of the church.

I did 12 years of Catholic School. Remembering back, you can't take communion if you don't have confession first. If the child is non-verbal, he can't give confession. He's not eligible for communion. It sucks. But it is what it is.

I go to a non-denominational church now that is based on Baptist teaching. They do communion quarterly but I have never partaken because I haven't been to confession. That programming and indoctrination goes VERY deep.

I don't believe that not receiving the sacrament means you don't go to heaven, but I could be wrong. I don't like changing rules for warm fuzzies so I'm gonna have to come down on the church's side with this one. It's not popular, but the rules are the the rules. I also like that if I don't like my church I can change my church. That's the family's prerogative.

very well stated. as you said "I don't believe that not receiving the sacrament means you don't go to heaven". this is completely true (at least in the lutheran church). Heck, You go to heaven without getting baptized.

I doubt God is as concerned about the details as the church. I’m thinking God can see what’s on the inside

Does your son want to do the sacrament or do you want him to do the sacrament? If your son wants to do it of his own accord I think it's really crappy for the priest not to honor that. WWJD? I can't imagine Jesus turning away a child. If he can't make that decision for himself, I understand your desire to want him to do it, and I understand the Churches requirement that a person do it of their own mindful accord. If it's really important to you, I'd maybe explore around a bit to see if I could find another priest who would be willing to do the sacrament with your son. It could be a private matter between you, your family, and your God.

Tough situation, and I wish you the best sorting it out Bob!

In my situation it's me. truth be known he probably doesn't care.

not trying to make this political, but, nancy pelosi as well as a lot of other dc scum liberal/socialists claim to be catholic while at the same time saying it is okay to perform abortions up to birth. they should be excommunicated and condemned for it by the church, instead they get a pass.

so much for legalistic krap, another example of why I do not partake in organized religion.

Going to church doesn’t get you to heaven. The Bible is very clear about this. Look up the ‘Roman Road’.

The list of things I don't know is far longer than the list of things I know. But here is one thing I KNOW: there is but one path to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.

We all try to do the things we think are right. A lot of what we see as right and wrong is based on what we were taught by people - parents, priests, preachers, Sunday school teachers, etc. Sometimes right or wrong is stated in the doctrine of a church (Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, etc.) We tend to place too much importance on human ideals and rules or guidelines we come up with ourselves, and unfortunately that can take away from our focus on God's teachings.

I stated above that I respect the fact that the Catholic priest would not compromise the rules of his church. I respect his conviction even though I disagree with the viewpoint.

The autistic kid in the article, the priest, Bob's kid, Bob, me, my kids, everyone on this thread... we will all have to stand before God in judgement. Our fate will not be determined by how strictly we followed the "rules." Our fate will be determined by Jesus Christ when he says, "Father, I know this man."

The pope may have the Wuhan flu .............pure justice .

" But here is one thing I KNOW: there is but one path to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ. "
John 14:6 backs you on that COFF so I don't how anyone could disagree.

We partake of communion because we are unworthy.
That Catholic church has it backwards

Sacraments are a big thing in our church. So important that we only have two. Baptism and communion.

http://cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=s&word=SACRAMENTANDTHESACRAMENTS

Bob, I don’t know you, your son, or anything about the Lutheran Church. There is one thing that I do know, from your description of your son’s condition he is as innocent as the day he was born and Jesus will welcome him with open arms.

Thank you! God is good!

Honestly, I think if it were me that I would seriously consider changing my religious affiliation.

The Most Solid OT Post too Date this year!!!

Agree!

I’m torn on this. I’d personally like to hear what the churches stance on the salvation of the kid is should he not be baptized.

He's Catholic, already been baby sprinkled!

The Church as I knew it taught that baptism isn't required for salvation. All that is needed has already been done.

And this.

this

I'm not Catholic. That said, I think if the Savior was offering the Sacrament, no way would he deny little 8 year old Anthony.

Jesus came to reform a religion not to start a new religion and he was the new covenant and only through him can you gain the keys to heaven. It was only after his death and the continued teaching of the disciples that Christianity was formed and new rules at to what you had to do to belong. Jesus didn’t hang out with the priest and only the best in society he was as with the poor, the sick, and the sinners.

Early on in our Alzheimer’s journey there was something on TV about God and my wife looked at me and asked if I believed in God. It had been a rough day and I looked at her and told her I don’t really know honey and she looked straight at me and said “Well I do”. We are now eight years into our journey and if you asked her who God or Jesus is she would not be able to answer. Therefore she can not confess any sins so she be denied Holy Communion? Only God knows what is in her hart not a priest!

The one thing I do know is that there are going to be a lot of pissed off people when they get to heaven and see all the people that are there that they don’t think should be. There are times that I think the Catholic Church and religion have done as much bad as they have good.

Revelation 21 : 4

I took a cross to a Baptist church a few weeks ago. It was given to me by a friend and was way too big for our house ... really too big for most houses - about 4 feet tall. I walked in to the church and found the office. The church was empty except for a few people. When I walked in the office, I got the most unwelcoming stare down from the secretary. I mean WTF, churches should be warm, inviting places. This lady looked at me like I was some kind of lunatic walking in to their offices with a big cross. She said I needed to talk to the administrator who just happened to be walking up at the time. I walked out of the office to meet him. He was much nicer. I wrote a note on the back of the cross telling how it came to me and that I was passing it to the church in memory of Billy Dyson. The administrator blessed me and said he would find a good wall in the church to hang it.

The lady I encountered is representative of the biggest problem with churches today. Too many judgy, unfriendly people in church. What if I was someone in need of help who went to the church and got that type of reception? Too many people in churches have no idea what being a Christian means.

good reminder, thanks!

I haven't read through all the replies, so sorry if I'm just repeating someone else.

Children, by definition, are quite frequently unable to determine right from wrong (WITHOUT being disabled). That's why they need moral instruction and guidance from parents & family, teachers, churches, scouts, youth groups, etc. I see no harm in offering communion to an individual who doesn't understand the significance of the act.

If a convicted murderer can be granted communion, why not a disabled child?

app-facebook
Saint Aloysius Parish Jackson NJ
on Wednesday
We have had both e-mail and phone inquiries regarding a Facebook Post about a special needs child. We appreciate the outpouring of concern and love for the child as well as those advocating on behalf of the family, we appreciate those who took the the time to share with us their feelings.
Because the individual is a minor child we are bound by confidentiality not to disclose information regarding this particular individual.
The Code of Canon Law clearly states a Catholic has the Right to the Sacraments and cannot be denied the sacraments as long as they are properly prepared and disposed to reception of the Sacraments. The Parishes have the duty to ensure the individuals are prepared, understand, ready and able to receive the Sacraments. Should an individual not be ready the Sacrament is normally to be postponed until the individual is suitably prepared and disposed to reception of the Sacraments. These are guidelines we operate under in the Parish.
Our parish has dozens of children with special needs, disabilities, autism spectrum, cognitive delay, allergies, developmental disabilities, physical disabilities, limited cognition and other physical, emotional and cognitive classifications. We strive to serve these populations to the best of our abilities and to adapt our Religious Education and Sacramental Preparations for them within the guidelines of the Catholic Church.
Since Monday we have been researching how we could best assist the most profoundly disabled in a better way. New information has come to light which allows us to by-pass previous Diocesan Guidelines to better serve this subset population. The original guidelines we followed state that a child must have a basic rudimentary simple understanding of Right and Wrong to receive First Reconciliation. For First Communion, again at a simple, basic, rudimentary level, the child has to be able to distinguish ordinary bread from the Body of Christ.
New information has shed light on ways to further adapt our preparations and reception for children with severe cognitive and developmental issues. This is thanks to the work of Canon Lawyers, Theologians and Pope Francis which will allow the reception of these sacraments. The basic concept is the child should be presumed to have an inner spiritual relationship with God and this would be sufficient in these particular cases, thus this is a development of our guidelines based on the latest understanding. Bishop David O'Connell of the Diocese of Trenton has approved of these further adaptations.
The family many of you have advocated for has been informed of this new guidance that will allow further adaptations to Preparation and reception of the Sacraments.
Thank you again to everyone willing to be an advocate for the disabled and challenge us to a deeper understanding as well.


81
328
185

I'm also LCMS Lutheran.
And I can't say I'd feel exactly the same as I do now if I were the boys parent, although I can, with all my heart, say that I should feel the same.

As Bob stated, in the Lutheran church, sacraments are extremely important. And the only path or necessity to live forever with God in heaven is to believe that God sent his son to die for my sins because there is no way that I can pay for them on my own. And as we approach Easter, this fact breaks my heart every year. I know that Jesus was put on this earth to be beaten and hung on a cross to die because I can't. And every day with every minute that I sin, those sins are the reason that He was sent here. I digress, but it's important to understand that there is no other way around this. The absolute only way you get to Heaven is to believe that Jesus died for your sins.

And Bob stated true that the Lutheran LCMS does believe that communion is the body and blood of Christ. And it's so important that if you don't fully understand it's meaning or even come to the table with an impure heart and receive communion, that you receive the sacrament at your own damnation.
This may be what this particular case is trying to prevent.

thank you Jeff. Nailed it. I have no intention of leaving my church. This was never about some trivial custom. it's life changing to those of us that believe.