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Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Tx Tree Grower] #13407887 01/17/20 08:29 PM
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Oh no!!! Here comes a good ol fashioned rule #5 infraction!

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Tx Tree Grower] #13407888 01/17/20 08:36 PM
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Mark Jones Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tx Tree Grower
Oh no!!! Here comes a good ol fashioned rule #5 infraction!



roflmao argue

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13407897 01/17/20 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida


If you don’t know the quantity and caliber of sponsorships that have departed MLF/FLW, then how can you make the claim “it’s a dramatic increase and improvement” and expect it to be given credibility?

Let’s be clear, - that’s the type of statements which clearly omit relevant information that makes all of MLF and its associated talking heads lose any credibility they think they have. They know if that information was included in the original statement that would provide a direct comparison for others to draw their own conclusions. They don’t want that; they seemingly feel smoke and mirrors is a better option. To compound the lack of credibility and rapidly growing image problem MLF has, when someone who is in the know is asked directly what sponsors did they lose for obvious reasons, and that MLF person who just so happens to have a job that would seemingly require to know such things acts as if they are unaware, well... the image and credibility issues are completely understandable.


Ahhh, I'm so glad you're back off of your hiatus. But yet I still don't know who you are? No one was provided with a list of sponsors who aren't participating and quite frankly for the brands our agency represents I don't care who's NOT there. We have always valued brand partnerships and collaborations around properties and when we do so we are focused on those we are working with. I can only imagine that is the same for MLF, FLW or BASS. You don't worry about who's not there, you focus on building relationships with those who are. Surely you understand that?

By now I can only assume you are an industry insider who I likely know of personally or deal with on some level, so if you'd disclose your affiliation we can get down to brass tacks real quick. I'm happy to engage...

Let me know.


What I understand and am pointing out to others is you are making a baseless statement by saying “[i]it’s a dramatic increase and improvement[/i]” when you subsequently wrote you don’t have any information as to who declined to continue sponsorship with MLF/FLW for 2020. Surely you understand the contradiction in logic you create by making such a proclamation?

You seem to be in the business of quantifying value based on statistics, data, etc... but then you’re omitting half of what’s needed to support your assertion. That makes your statement baseless and without facts that can be measured.

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Big O Florida] #13407920 01/17/20 09:07 PM
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Mark Jones Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida


If you don’t know the quantity and caliber of sponsorships that have departed MLF/FLW, then how can you make the claim “it’s a dramatic increase and improvement” and expect it to be given credibility?

Let’s be clear, - that’s the type of statements which clearly omit relevant information that makes all of MLF and its associated talking heads lose any credibility they think they have. They know if that information was included in the original statement that would provide a direct comparison for others to draw their own conclusions. They don’t want that; they seemingly feel smoke and mirrors is a better option. To compound the lack of credibility and rapidly growing image problem MLF has, when someone who is in the know is asked directly what sponsors did they lose for obvious reasons, and that MLF person who just so happens to have a job that would seemingly require to know such things acts as if they are unaware, well... the image and credibility issues are completely understandable.


Ahhh, I'm so glad you're back off of your hiatus. But yet I still don't know who you are? No one was provided with a list of sponsors who aren't participating and quite frankly for the brands our agency represents I don't care who's NOT there. We have always valued brand partnerships and collaborations around properties and when we do so we are focused on those we are working with. I can only imagine that is the same for MLF, FLW or BASS. You don't worry about who's not there, you focus on building relationships with those who are. Surely you understand that?

By now I can only assume you are an industry insider who I likely know of personally or deal with on some level, so if you'd disclose your affiliation we can get down to brass tacks real quick. I'm happy to engage...

Let me know.


What I understand and am pointing out to others is you are making a baseless statement by saying “[i]it’s a dramatic increase and improvement[/i]” when you subsequently wrote you don’t have any information as to who declined to continue sponsorship with MLF/FLW for 2020. Surely you understand the contradiction in logic you create by making such a proclamation?

You seem to be in the business of quantifying value based on statistics, data, etc... but then you’re omitting half of what’s needed to support your assertion. That makes your statement baseless and without facts that can be measured.


Yes, that statement was related to the increase in FLW sponsorship only and yes I have visibility to that data, so I'm qualified to comment. It is a dramatic increase in both the numbers of sponsors and the revenue and anyone who looked at the numbers would classify it as such. Again, I asked that you identify yourself here. Could you kindly let me know your real name and your affiliation or agenda? If you're going to keep ignoring this, then I'll start skipping you with my replies.

Thanks in advance and take care if you decline the request for further information.

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: J.H.S.] #13407931 01/17/20 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh Seale
Originally Posted by beartrap
something that needs to be recognized by the critics of MLF is the phenomenal growth rate of high school and college fishing which in turn is going to increase the numbers of fishing fans....if it continues to grow,it's going to provide more opportunities for young people to make a living at fishing...



This quote is the problem with bass fishing. Instead of teaching our kids to love the sport, we want to teach them how "make a living fishing". Most if not all of these guys didn't start out wanting to make a living doing it. It just happened. Also, with the increase number of fisherman, you will start seeing the sponsorship dollars tighten. Only so much money to go around. Very very very few will actually make a living doing it. College and HS fishing was growing long before MLF came about.


Is there a problem with bass fishing or do some have goals that differ from yours and you have a problem with that? I wasn't aware there was a problem with bass fishing.

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13407964 01/17/20 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida


What I understand and am pointing out to others is you are making a baseless statement by saying “[i]it’s a dramatic increase and improvement[/i]” when you subsequently wrote you don’t have any information as to who declined to continue sponsorship with MLF/FLW for 2020. Surely you understand the contradiction in logic you create by making such a proclamation?

You seem to be in the business of quantifying value based on statistics, data, etc... but then you’re omitting half of what’s needed to support your assertion. That makes your statement baseless and without facts that can be measured.


Yes, that statement was related to the increase in FLW sponsorship only and yes I have visibility to that data, so I'm qualified to comment. It is a dramatic increase in both the numbers of sponsors and the revenue and anyone who looked at the numbers would classify it as such. Again, I asked that you identify yourself here. Could you kindly let me know your real name and your affiliation or agenda? If you're going to keep ignoring this, then I'll start skipping you with my replies.

Thanks in advance and take care if you decline the request for further information.


People who are qualified and want to be viewed as credible would not just throw a list of some company names out there and then make a statement that those names represents a dramatic increase in amount of and quality of sponsors without also including the names and amount of sponsors who were lost by declining a renewal/continuation contract in the same time period... You shouldn’t even be reluctant to provide such information if you’re so confident the numbers add up to where anyone who looked at it would classify it as such and support your stated conclusion.

That’s the core problem with the MLF imagine and their principles - no one believes their BS and you’re demonstrating exactly why. That poor MLF marketing soul who appeared on BTL earlier in the week made a fool of himself too. Too bad Jeffries couldn’t muster up the courage to actually hit him with the hard hitting questions his audience expected.

You don’t have to know who I am to be truthful... that’s between you and your own conscience. Just know this, there are a lot more people than just me that can recognize the BS and who’s spouting it.

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408013 01/17/20 10:36 PM
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Ok Big O. Start that time clock the rule 5 is ticking around the corner somewhere like the jeopardy theme. Lol

I have no idea who the guy was on BTL but his word salad was that of a politician, he’s got that good question and we’ve been looking at that. Answer down pat. But then again he’s got probably the hardest job in the world right now. One to keep it and the other to try and keep the ones convinced all is great to stay focused on it. He was skilled in throwing words out while trying to reply with a reasonable sounding answer. He brought up how big the numbers were for the BFL on Rayburn saying that it showed how things are improving for guys to make it Fishing.
When the guy was asked about fan interaction he gave this broad brush answer about sponsors having to watch the budget and had to choose which place they wanted to be involved at.

If the numbers were so great no endemic sponsor would leave. Right or Wrong ?
If all was well why would any MFL angler leave or want to fish the BASS Opens such as Christie, Lee, Lane. They fish a tour with no entry right?

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Big O Florida] #13408024 01/17/20 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida


What I understand and am pointing out to others is you are making a baseless statement by saying “[i]it’s a dramatic increase and improvement[/i]” when you subsequently wrote you don’t have any information as to who declined to continue sponsorship with MLF/FLW for 2020. Surely you understand the contradiction in logic you create by making such a proclamation?

You seem to be in the business of quantifying value based on statistics, data, etc... but then you’re omitting half of what’s needed to support your assertion. That makes your statement baseless and without facts that can be measured.


Yes, that statement was related to the increase in FLW sponsorship only and yes I have visibility to that data, so I'm qualified to comment. It is a dramatic increase in both the numbers of sponsors and the revenue and anyone who looked at the numbers would classify it as such. Again, I asked that you identify yourself here. Could you kindly let me know your real name and your affiliation or agenda? If you're going to keep ignoring this, then I'll start skipping you with my replies.

Thanks in advance and take care if you decline the request for further information.


People who are qualified and want to be viewed as credible would not just throw a list of some company names out there and then make a statement that those names represents a dramatic increase in amount of and quality of sponsors without also including the names and amount of sponsors who were lost by declining a renewal/continuation contract in the same time period... You shouldn’t even be reluctant to provide such information if you’re so confident the numbers add up to where anyone who looked at it would classify it as such and support your stated conclusion.

That’s the core problem with the MLF imagine and their principles - no one believes their BS and you’re demonstrating exactly why. That poor MLF marketing soul who appeared on BTL earlier in the week made a fool of himself too. Too bad Jeffries couldn’t muster up the courage to actually hit him with the hard hitting questions his audience expected.

You don’t have to know who I am to be truthful... that’s between you and your own conscience. Just know this, there are a lot more people than just me that can recognize the BS and who’s spouting it.


I'm 100% confident anyone reading these threads is smart enough to see the substance behind my posts and most importantly my name behind them vs someone who's shown up here with zero credibility and won't disclose who they are and what their agenda is, although I don't really need you to do the second because that's clear. This will all play itself out over time and you can sit back and prognosticate about it all. The good news is you likely will have zero impact on anyone's success or lack thereof.

And as for the poor marketing soul at MLF, he's one of the more thoughtful and connected people in this space and has a proven track record at every level. You're better off picking your battles with me...

That's going to do it for me good sir, you can continue to enjoy your anonymity and I'll enjoy ignoring your contributions moving forward. Take care Seminole. thumb

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408073 01/17/20 11:29 PM
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Mark Jones why is it you fill the need to defend MLF , FLW ?

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408085 01/17/20 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by Mark Jones
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Mark, what sponsors did the lose? Is Venmo still with them, I’m guessing they were the largest sponsor?


I haven't seen any updates on anyone lost for 2020. I'm sure they're having ongoing discussions about 2021 for any of them that were out in 2020. The FLW acquisition gives them a lot of new opportunities and there were some companies that simply couldn't react in time. Yes, Venmo runs through 2020.


If you don’t know the quantity and caliber of sponsorships that have departed MLF/FLW, then how can you make the claim “it’s a dramatic increase and improvement” and expect it to be given credibility?

Let’s be clear, - that’s the type of statements which clearly omit relevant information that makes all of MLF and its associated talking heads lose any credibility they think they have. They know if that information was included in the original statement that would provide a direct comparison for others to draw their own conclusions. They don’t want that; they seemingly feel smoke and mirrors is a better option. To compound the lack of credibility and rapidly growing image problem MLF has, when someone who is in the know is asked directly what sponsors did they lose for obvious reasons, and that MLF person who just so happens to have a job that would seemingly require to know such things acts as if they are unaware, well... the image and credibility issues are completely understandable.


Ahhh, I'm so glad you're back off of your hiatus. But yet I still don't know who you are? No one was provided with a list of sponsors who aren't participating and quite frankly for the brands our agency represents I don't care who's NOT there. We have always valued brand partnerships and collaborations around properties and when we do so we are focused on those we are working with. I can only imagine that is the same for MLF, FLW or BASS. You don't worry about who's not there, you focus on building relationships with those who are. Surely you understand that?

By now I can only assume you are an industry insider who I likely know of personally or deal with on some level, so if you'd disclose your affiliation we can get down to brass tacks real quick. I'm happy to engage...

Let me know.


So, basically, it’s “what have you done for me lately?”? I get it now.


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: slim 285] #13408098 01/17/20 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by slim 285
Mark Jones why is it you fill the need to defend MLF , FLW ?


I think you mean feel and why is it you feel the need to tear them down? Feel free to reply but this thread has run it course for me.

Tight lines fellas!


Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408112 01/18/20 12:15 AM
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I don't have a dog in this fight...I enjoy watching both BASS and MLF and wish each trail success...I don't understand the animosity toward MLF at all given the fact that it is owned by fishermen just like us who had the guts and the vision to risk their careers and money to own their own trail and expand the sport to where they would be sharing the TV ,sponsor and venue income rather than letting the owners take all the profits and the fishermen having to fish for their own entry fees...

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: beartrap] #13408120 01/18/20 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by beartrap
I don't have a dog in this fight...I enjoy watching both BASS and MLF and wish each trail success...I don't understand the animosity toward MLF at all given the fact that it is owned by fishermen just like us who had the guts and the vision to risk their careers and money to own their own trail and expand the sport to where they would be sharing the TV ,sponsor and venue income rather than letting the owners take all the profits and the fishermen having to fish for their own entry fees...





I don't get it either. I like the format because it is different. But there are a few on here and BBC that despise MLF/BPT. They will do anything to bash them. Just flat out make up stuff. And wish for their failure. I just don't get how you can hate a simple tournament trail that much. I guess my life is pretty good because i just aint that miserable

Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408154 01/18/20 12:42 AM
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I like them both....probably equally. I don’t like one sided arguments, so I feel the need to play defense attorney.

I also am wise enough to know that a rose garden grows in dirt full of manure. So I don’t like hearing how “great” [censored] is, when it really ain’t. We all know both styles of these trails are somewhere in the middle. Each has PLENTY of pros and cons.


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: MLF/FLW Insight from today [Re: Mark Jones] #13408156 01/18/20 12:43 AM
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MLF/BPT ain't going anywhere, they are both great tournament fishing formats.

I like BASS also. I do not like the anglers using the middle of their boats for a landing net.

Thanks for posting Mark.

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