You may be right about changing minds, I would agree but not for the reasons you cite. There seems to be a very high concentration of a collective group think going on here and there are several people within who will recite just about any old thing to further their defense of the indefensible. But yet, they have not once, not once, been able to substantiate or support the baseless claims that they’re using to defend MLF. Despite being challenged to do so. At least when I come on and make a statement or a claim I come prepared and am armed with something to substantiate my claims and in support of my opinions. But I guess for some they would rather argue with hearsay and rumors they picked up somewhere or imagined in their minds only.

Know this, and the signs are all around you if you want to open your eyes and minds. MLF and it’s operations are having some serious issues. These aren’t issues a startup would typically have, but are all too typical and seen before in the world of the majority owner and his other sporting ventures. There is a significant amount of anglers that are contractually prevented from speaking publicly about what’s wrong and they are also prevented by that same contract from removing themselves from the situation they have found themselves in without causing themselves some serious financial harm. Many have privately expressed they were sold a bill of goods, others have expressed same not so privately. The ones fortunate enough to make an early exit were more than clear about that. The fans are sensing this, and more importantly the sponsors are siting up and taking a serious look at the discontent within the angler ranks and that could not be more substantiated when you accept MLF lost the support and major sponsorship backing from what is without argument the most influential and prominent group of businesses in the endemic class of advertisers; and when people see that, all corners of the industry takes notice. Johnny M & Companies is likely to also be a reseller of the vast majority of other endemic sponsors for the fishing industry too, so one can argue all they want about how insignificant that move was, but that’s a head in the sand mentality by anyone who doesn’t recognize its importance.

As Mark stated in a recent post, there will be a lot of information coming out in the days and weeks to come... and if people take it in without peeling back the onion to look for the all to common misrepresentations coming from MLF, they will be expected to believe the same types of unsubstantiated and unsupported things many have been already reciting on here and other places.

Nope. My post was in jest. Everyone has he right to their own opinions. This is an open forum to the public...always has been and always will be. The only way to stop the posts from him is to quit replying.

keep the facts coming in...

You aren't out of line Chris. Our unwritten policy is that we are not fond of people signing up accounts solely for the purpose of bashing or stirring up problems. Usually the person has another account and doesn't want to stir the pot under it or they are here solely to promote an agenda.

These discussions have remained relatively civil, so we have let them play out. IMO, a little shake-up will end up being good for the sport.

Thanks Janitor! When we getting together again?!? Been a long time. We will be out there the whole week between Christmas and New Years.

Campfire and cold beer at my house.

Just to state facts, Latimer had 1 year finishing in the Top 10. The 3 previous years on Tour were 96 (2018), 63 (2017) and 47 (2016, rookie). 4 years total on the big tour. Several years before that on the Costa's and BFL's.

Hate the format, hate how they attacked BASS, and dislike Boyd Duckett. But damn bud you are on a crusade but with no clear goal in sight. They bought FLW in the open market. It was inferior to BASS and BPT so why keep it the same? I’ve rarely seen any business acquisition where the acquiring company didn’t make changes. You’re wrong about BASS; every time they have sold there has been changes. Some of those are what led to the older anglers unhappiness and ultimately MLF.

And who cares if the anglers aren’t getting everything they were promised right out of the gate. It was their choice to fish it and they should’ve been smart enough to realize Rome wasn’t built in a day. Every pro sport has issues between management and players so why should fishing be different?

You seem to be a former FLW/Costa guy or small time fishing product owner that really has his feelings hurt. But word of advice, save your breath. No one has ever been convinced to change their minds on this forum and you don’t have the communication skills or tact to be the first.
[/quote]

You may be right about changing minds, I would agree but not for the reasons you cite. There seems to be a very high concentration of a collective group think going on here and there are several people within who will recite just about any old thing to further their defense of the indefensible. But yet, they have not once, not once, been able to substantiate or support the baseless claims that they’re using to defend MLF. Despite being challenged to do so. At least when I come on and make a statement or a claim I come prepared and am armed with something to substantiate my claims and in support of my opinions. But I guess for some they would rather argue with hearsay and rumors they picked up somewhere or imagined in their minds only.

Know this, and the signs are all around you if you want to open your eyes and minds. MLF and it’s operations are having some serious issues. These aren’t issues a startup would typically have, but are all too typical and seen before in the world of the majority owner and his other sporting ventures. There is a significant amount of anglers that are contractually prevented from speaking publicly about what’s wrong and they are also prevented by that same contract from removing themselves from the situation they have found themselves in without causing themselves some serious financial harm. Many have privately expressed they were sold a bill of goods, others have expressed same not so privately. The ones fortunate enough to make an early exit were more than clear about that. The fans are sensing this, and more importantly the sponsors are siting up and taking a serious look at the discontent within the angler ranks and that could not be more substantiated when you accept MLF lost the support and major sponsorship backing from what is without argument the most influential and prominent group of businesses in the endemic class of advertisers; and when people see that, all corners of the industry takes notice. Johnny M & Companies is likely to also be a reseller of the vast majority of other endemic sponsors for the fishing industry too, so one can argue all they want about how insignificant that move was, but that’s a head in the sand mentality by anyone who doesn’t recognize its importance.

As Mark stated in a recent post, there will be a lot of information coming out in the days and weeks to come... and if people take it in without peeling back the onion to look for the all to common misrepresentations coming from MLF, they will be expected to believe the same types of unsubstantiated and unsupported things many have been already reciting on here and other places.[/quote]










You know how everyone that dislikes MLF wants Duckett to go away because he’s a bad pr guy and just spouts bs? You’re becoming that guy for BASS. Just knock it off while you have a chance. Geez. I agree with you, and don’t like you. Truth or not you are just spouting the same [censored] over and over and ignoring anyone wanting legit answers.

So the same people you are “quoting propaganda”, you are exactly like them. Giving the same answers to different questions with nothing other than plausible deniability to back yourself up with.

Again, you’re a hypocrite, shoo on somewhere with you.

Sounds good. I'll text you once I know what our plans our.

As I scan back through older posts about MLF (before BPT), the general consensus on this forum was very positive. Everyone seemed to like the shows and the anglers involved. Nobody was trashing Duckett or calling the group "crooks".

The lack of "anger" or frustration towards BASS and FLW for essentially failing to build a consistent and profitable business for the anglers is puzzling to me. Why does BASS get a free pass for literally running off their top 90% of anglers? The same guys everyone on this forum has raved about for years. They left on their own will, looking for greener pastures. Maybe they found it, maybe they didn't. Way too early to tell despite all the unsupported rumors, whispers, and "just wait until tomorrow" comments on this forum.

Personally, as a BASS fan, I am disappointed that they couldn't innovate and evolve enough to maintain the best group of anglers. I blame them, not MLF/BPT. I also blame FLW for running a business that was (according to insiders) in significant financial trouble.

Big O....have you directed any of this anger towards the FLW owners that signed their names on a contract to sell without specific clauses that forced MLF to honor the promises FLW made??

I've bought and sold companies. We didn't keep every employee on board. We also didn't maintain everyones salary. We also definitely had owners request specific (and sometimes odd) clauses that held us to their promises with employees, customers, and vendors. I've also made similar requests when selling a business. None of this is unusual in this type of transaction.

FLW screwed you or your friend over, Big O. Acknowledge that and move on with your life.

It's as clear as mud... Thanks for keeping the waters muddy... The MLFLW/ BPsT format doesn't interest me in the least. As far as the BEST claim, a lot of the BEST fell off the face of the lake when they left BASS... Only place you see MLFLW/ BPsT pros is the 1'x1' photo in the daily BPS flier you get in the mail... And they still refer to them as BASS Master Clasic winners... Dan

Anger and frustration towards BASS, at least by myself is there, but that’s an entirely different discussion and really has no bearing on what has been discussed in this or other postings recently . For the record, I do feel they weren’t doing enough to keep the anglers interested, making enough changes and evolving, and giving them a fair share of the revenue being generated by their talents and the show they can put on, which at the end of the day is what all tournament organizers are selling to advertisers/sponsors. I would argue none of the tours give the anglers a fair share of the advertising revenue they help generate for the tournament organizations.

You, like others have recited that FLW was in significant financial trouble, and qualifying that comment with “according to insiders“ doesn’t make that claim any more credible than those who have come before you making the same claim. If anyone has bothered to look into it they would know there has been an ongoing sibling dispute between the heirs of Irwin Jacobs and his estate in probate. What was reported in some local articles covering that was a single statement made “by one” of those siblings that the “Jacobs estate” was $100 million in debt. What’s always been left out by people making that claim looking to further a debate in defense of MLF, is in every article I have seen published on that matter it was always stated that the claim of debt had not been substantiated. Fact is, it was only a claim by one of the Jacobs children that was looking to try and liquidate the estate quickly without doing any due diligence. interestingly enough, there are articles out there that quote the same person that the businesses left behind in the Jacobs estate were strong. The truth is this went to court and court halted the estate sale, and it was found that the claim of it being in massive debt had no basis of fact because there had not been any financial audit of Jacobs business’s and personal holdings since the time of his death. Its not unusual for wealthy individuals to have large amounts of debt, and I would argue someone of Jacobs wealth, $110 million of debt is on the low end.

As to your comment about the owners of FLW who signed their names on the sale papers, yes, they are to blame and if I am not mistaken at least one of them, the daughter of Irwin Jacobs, is still in the same role within FLW that she has always had. But even though they deserve to be held to account for not taking care of commitments already in the pipeline, it’s the MLF and it’s publicly stated mission and widely distributed talking points about being an organization that is for the benefit of the anglers that is the most telling. If there was no hypocrisy in that claim, there wouldn’t be an issue here. What’s more, that’s the same claim that was being made to attract all those anglers over from BASS, which somewhat seems to now be in dispute according to the anglers who have spoken about it.

But here is who I would hold to account more than anyone. There are purportedly a dozen or more anglers apart from Duckett, and Klein that are also part owners of MLF. How they could sit back and allow and be content with MLF screwing anglers out of opportunity to follow the same paths they followed (Qualifying for events) to get where they are, shows how they themselves don’t even believe in the published mission and values of the organization they have bought into.

Who are those angler/owners outside of Duckett and Klein, does anyone know? Maybe they can start answering some questions about why they remain silent.

Are Big O Florida and Jeff From Iowa the same person? Never see them in the same room and always have to get the last word in!

Lots of bickering on here. Some of you need your diapers changed. Others need to find something constructive to do with their time.

I do believe they are the same person.