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Jan 23rd, 2013
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Re: Cheating [Re: BigVes] #13293044 09/25/19 07:43 PM
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1oldbassguy Offline
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I couldn't remember Mike Hart's name and the location of the tourney , but It stuck in my mind the length that some people can go to win some money then justify his actions .
Correct me if I am wrong , but did Mike Hart live in the SoCal area ??

I think some guys cheat to justify the huge expense that being a tournament bass fisherman can cost. Additionally , when someone cheats the first time , they think , OH - OK , nobody caught me , I'll do it again --- then it kinda spirals out of control .

Lastly , this has been discussed many times on this website , but the main reason I don't fish tourneys is because people change their " attitude " on tourney day . Some guys think it's totally OK to cut off other fisherman ( non -tourney guys ) , take over a good spot then say " I am in a tourney " , and justify being rude to other fisherman . It happens all the time , we have all seen it . To me , treating other fisherman with disrespect just because your in a tourney , is really only a small step away from justifying being a cheater .
" always the dollars , always " = Joe Pesci , Good Fellas

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Re: Cheating [Re: Outlaw Outdoors] #13293062 09/25/19 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw Outdoors
As a tournament director, here is my take on rule infractions versus cheating:

A rule infraction is anything that does not give you an advantage over another angler (not snapping life jacket, forgetting to attach kill switch, empty water bottle flying out of the boat, etc).
Cheating is anything that does give you an advantage (caging fish, meeting a buddy to combine fish, adding weight to a fish, etc).

Before every polygraph, I have a private conversation with the team that is selected to take the polygraph. I ask this exact question - did you do anything today that is going to show deception on the polygraph? If they confess a rule infraction at that point and I feel it is accidental, then we will work with the polygraph examiner to work around the issue. If you do not divulge anything prior to the polygraph and then show signs of deception, then everything is considered cheating to me. You had the opportunity to divulge the "mistake" and you chose to try to get away with it. In my opinion that is now cheating because you tried to get away with a rule infraction.

We also do not simply polygraph the tournament winner. We randomly draw from the top 6 places, but it is weighted towards the top. 1st place gets 6 chips in the bucket, 2nd place gets 5 chips in the bucket, 3rd place gets 4 chips in the bucket, etc. I also do not allow the team to determine who takes the polygraph. We flip a coin to determine which one takes it.

Sadly, the polygraph is our only line of defense against cheating. Otherwise, we rely on other anglers to investigate any suspicious activity during tournament hours to help prevent or deter cheating.


This is how it should be done.

Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293070 09/25/19 08:12 PM
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I like first place poly and the random for another who got paid.

Re: Cheating [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13293090 09/25/19 08:35 PM
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Outlaw Outdoors Offline
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
I like first place poly and the random for another who got paid.


At $300 a pop, it gets expensive.


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Re: Cheating [Re: 1oldbassguy] #13293117 09/25/19 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 1oldbassguy
I couldn't remember Mike Hart's name and the location of the tourney , but It stuck in my mind the length that some people can go to win some money then justify his actions .
Correct me if I am wrong , but did Mike Hart live in the SoCal area ??


He fished lots of WON bass tournaments there so assume he lived there too, he won lots of team tournies with Bill Siemantel, so when Hart got caught lots of suspicion came on the big bass guy. I think Bill was cleared but it made me think of him when Mike Long got exposed plus they kinda look similiar.

Last edited by Legend LE-195; 09/25/19 09:01 PM.
Re: Cheating [Re: Outlaw Outdoors] #13293132 09/25/19 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Outlaw Outdoors
Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
I like first place poly and the random for another who got paid.


At $300 a pop, it gets expensive.


It's just money lol

Seriously though....I'd happily pay a little more knowing everything was done to keep things legit as possible

Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293165 09/25/19 10:07 PM
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TinRangerJim Offline
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http://www.wonews.com/t-WONBASS-cheater-7-21-10.aspx

Here is the story on Mike Hart. He was from Winnetka, a suburb of Los Angeles


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Jim C.
Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293177 09/25/19 10:13 PM
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I can guarantee you just like in racing there are more cheaters deep in the results than in the top 3-4 on a regular basis.

Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293181 09/25/19 10:15 PM
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It still happens but not as much since it’s so easy to get the word out about cheaters. No longer can you pack up and move one state or city over and be forgotten.

But there is a something else that makes tournament fishing even less enjoyable than cheaters. It’s all the “pro’s” you have on the water now. Everyone thinks they are the next to be called up to the Big Leagues. Fake sponsors on their shirts and boats. And not a ounce of etiquette or sportsmanship.

As one college kid told me, it’s called “Aggressive Fishing” as he proceeded to pull onto the same brush pile as me and launch lures at my boat. I couldn’t help but laugh because they were serious and felt completely within the bounds of normalcy.

Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293206 09/25/19 11:08 PM
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It happens. A few years ago was fishing a Media Fork division when the winners were asked to come take their poly they jumped in their boat and drove off. So second place won!


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�It�s all in your head. It doesn�t matter if your 6 or 60. You can participate in this sport."-Rick Clunn
Re: Cheating [Re: TxBazzn] #13293240 09/26/19 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TxBazzn
It still happens but not as much since it’s so easy to get the word out about cheaters. No longer can you pack up and move one state or city over and be forgotten.

But there is a something else that makes tournament fishing even less enjoyable than cheaters. It’s all the “pro’s” you have on the water now. Everyone thinks they are the next to be called up to the Big Leagues. Fake sponsors on their shirts and boats. And not a ounce of etiquette or sportsmanship.

As one college kid told me, it’s called “Aggressive Fishing” as he proceeded to pull onto the same brush pile as me and launch lures at my boat. I couldn’t help but laugh because they were serious and felt completely within the bounds of normalcy.

Cast over their lines with 80lb power pro. Call it aggressive bait snatching. Lol


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293242 09/26/19 12:01 AM
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Polygraphs can be wrong some people are just nervous . Isn’t that why their not admissible in court?
I know people cheat but just because you can’t pass a polygraph at a fishing tournament does not make you a cheat.
Gotta have more evidence than that.
J D

Re: Cheating [Re: RedEar12] #13293247 09/26/19 12:05 AM
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several years ago was fishing a buddy tourney on Lake Martin (al.)and got my boat stuck on a mud bar in back of a creek...my partner weighs at least 300 lbs and we couldn't get the boat to move...finally,I cranked up the big engine,trimmed it up and left it in gear while I jumped on the front and turned trolling motor wide open while my partner pushed with a paddle....finally the boat broke loose and we got off the mud bar but I realized I didn't have my life jacket on...
we won the tourney and I had to take a polygraph test....I told the polygraph operator about not having my life jacket while freeing the boat and told him that I didn't know whether I broke a rule or not....the operator said he didn't
t know if I had broke a rule or not but he would have to report it to the tournament director....he prefaced every question with "other than not having your life jacket on when freeing your boat" did you cheat,catch your fish legally etc...I was able to answer each question truthfully and pass the polygraph test....I've taken several polygraphs over the years and I don't believe I could have passed that test or any other test if I was hiding something or not being truthful...
incidentally,in that tournament,the director ruled that I had not broken any rule since their rules stated a life jacket must be worn when boat is up on plane...

Re: Cheating [Re: basscaster46] #13293271 09/26/19 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by basscaster46
Polygraphs can be wrong some people are just nervous . Isn’t that why their not admissible in court?
I know people cheat but just because you can’t pass a polygraph at a fishing tournament does not make you a cheat.
Gotta have more evidence than that.
J D



Of course you're nervous. My first one I bet my heart rate was well over 100. But he said that's normal....he's looking for inconsistencies after you answer specific questions. All questions are asked before you are ever hooked up to anything. That way there are no surprises. You can go over any questions you might be unsure about. If you fail a poly from a good examiner, you're hiding something

Re: Cheating [Re: Jarrett Latta] #13293276 09/26/19 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by basscaster46
Polygraphs can be wrong some people are just nervous . Isn’t that why their not admissible in court?
I know people cheat but just because you can’t pass a polygraph at a fishing tournament does not make you a cheat.
Gotta have more evidence than that.
J D



Of course you're nervous. My first one I bet my heart rate was well over 100. But he said that's normal....he's looking for inconsistencies after you answer specific questions. All questions are asked before you are ever hooked up to anything. That way there are no surprises. You can go over any questions you might be unsure about. If you fail a poly from a good examiner, you're hiding something

Originally Posted by Jarrett Latta
Originally Posted by basscaster46
Polygraphs can be wrong some people are just nervous . Isn’t that why their not admissible in court?
I know people cheat but just because you can’t pass a polygraph at a fishing tournament does not make you a cheat.
Gotta have more evidence than that.
J D



Of course you're nervous. My first one I bet my heart rate was well over 100. But he said that's normal....he's looking for inconsistencies after you answer specific questions. All questions are asked before you are ever hooked up to anything. That way there are no surprises. You can go over any questions you might be unsure about. If you fail a poly from a good examiner, you're hiding something

Ok guess that’s a good answer did not know that

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