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Touched a Nerve with This One #13248214 08/15/19 01:06 AM
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Apparently lots of people thinking this, few saying it. Posted yesterday, over 10,000 views in about 30 hours and 70+ comments, including a couple of touring pros weighing in...


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248236 08/15/19 01:22 AM
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I enjoyed it and many great points were made. cheers


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248360 08/15/19 03:16 AM
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whoooo doggies Ken... lots of stuff to be said about this one... there's nothing you've said that hasn't been thought about, mentioned, or questioned...but YOU put it in writing with factual graphic data.... oh Lordy,... hang on boys this fella has stirred the pot,... we may not see an immediate reaction,.. smile … but it's coming... where's the popcorn ?!….


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248363 08/15/19 03:18 AM
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Congratulations on the son!

Personally, I think there’s too many guys trying to get a piece of the pie and the pie is small at that.

Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248380 08/15/19 03:37 AM
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ehhhhhh… the organizations are keeping the money...……. dog gone it, did I put that in writing... smirk


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248384 08/15/19 03:41 AM
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its unreasonable to equate professional fishing to pro golf about 95 per cent of the folks in america could care less about it now that it has fragmented into different pro groups it will be harder to generate more money to pay out more.if you are not directly in the fishing business its hard to think that folks that dont understand the fishing world are going to put more money in it than they are going to benefit out of it. the boat manufacturers used to have a small army of pro staff that they furnished boats an paid entries an expenses now not nearly as many. unless you figure out a way to get money from the govt to spread it around to pro fishermen the fishermen will be fishing against each other for their own money.

Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248390 08/15/19 03:48 AM
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fair enough,... comparing to Pro Golf is lop sided.... however... the Pro fisherman are Not getting their fair share from the media revenues...


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248423 08/15/19 05:17 AM
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Is comparison to golf in the US lopsided, right now absolutely....does it have to be?

I have a good buddy that played on the PGA tour in the 70's and 80's (won 3 times on tour). We were playing one day and I asked him if he ever played the British Open and he said yes, once, he finished 25th or 26th and won $2,600, said he never went back because he didn't cover his expenses. So the professional golf hasn't always been what it is now, specifically before a guy named Tiger.

Audience size, golf is way bigger....uuuhhh no, so per my research 95% of all the rounds of golf played in the US last year were played by 20 million golfers. Over 40 million US citizens bought a fishing license last year. AND I believe our audience is growing faster, look at your local High School teams, many of them have 20-30-40 kids on the fishing team, how many on the golf team, 6-8?

Granted fishing is way behind where PGA is, but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. We need an organization that has the sales ability to capitalize on the size of the market and a moral compass to share it with the fisherman.

Last note...Jack Nickalus won 73 times on tour and 18 majors, his official career earnings.....$5.7mm.

Last edited by KenTx1962; 08/15/19 05:18 AM.

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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248571 08/15/19 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KenTx1962
Is comparison to golf in the US lopsided, right now absolutely....does it have to be?

I have a good buddy that played on the PGA tour in the 70's and 80's (won 3 times on tour). We were playing one day and I asked him if he ever played the British Open and he said yes, once, he finished 25th or 26th and won $2,600, said he never went back because he didn't cover his expenses. So the professional golf hasn't always been what it is now, specifically before a guy named Tiger.

Audience size, golf is way bigger....uuuhhh no, so per my research 95% of all the rounds of golf played in the US last year were played by 20 million golfers. Over 40 million US citizens bought a fishing license last year. AND I believe our audience is growing faster, look at your local High School teams, many of them have 20-30-40 kids on the fishing team, how many on the golf team, 6-8?

Granted fishing is way behind where PGA is, but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. We need an organization that has the sales ability to capitalize on the size of the market and a moral compass to share it with the fisherman.

Last note...Jack Nickalus won 73 times on tour and 18 majors, his official career earnings.....$5.7mm.


Ken, using your friend and Nicklaus as examples, you're comparing fishing payouts today to PGA payouts 40 years ago. You have middle of the pack PGA golfers today making more in one year than Jack made in his career. This year, the 25th place at the Open paid $88k... That's deep, and the winner made almost $2M.
We have to face it. Fishing is not on level as golf, it won't ever be, and we probably don't really want it to be.. It's not a good spectator sport for enough people (pros already whine when they have 10-15 boats following them) and does not draw the clientele that golf does. We don't get it because we're fishermen and we enjoy the tournament competition. Most people don't. Heck, I bet most people in Kalamazoo Mi, wouldn't know KVD if they saw him on the street.

Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: joebass2] #13248588 08/15/19 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by joebass2
Originally Posted by KenTx1962
Is comparison to golf in the US lopsided, right now absolutely....does it have to be?

I have a good buddy that played on the PGA tour in the 70's and 80's (won 3 times on tour). We were playing one day and I asked him if he ever played the British Open and he said yes, once, he finished 25th or 26th and won $2,600, said he never went back because he didn't cover his expenses. So the professional golf hasn't always been what it is now, specifically before a guy named Tiger.

Audience size, golf is way bigger....uuuhhh no, so per my research 95% of all the rounds of golf played in the US last year were played by 20 million golfers. Over 40 million US citizens bought a fishing license last year. AND I believe our audience is growing faster, look at your local High School teams, many of them have 20-30-40 kids on the fishing team, how many on the golf team, 6-8?

Granted fishing is way behind where PGA is, but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. We need an organization that has the sales ability to capitalize on the size of the market and a moral compass to share it with the fisherman.

Last note...Jack Nickalus won 73 times on tour and 18 majors, his official career earnings.....$5.7mm.


Ken, using your friend and Nicklaus as examples, you're comparing fishing payouts today to PGA payouts 40 years ago. You have middle of the pack PGA golfers today making more in one year than Jack made in his career. This year, the 25th place at the Open paid $88k... That's deep, and the winner made almost $2M.
We have to face it. Fishing is not on level as golf, it won't ever be, and we probably don't really want it to be.. It's not a good spectator sport for enough people (pros already whine when they have 10-15 boats following them) and does not draw the clientele that golf does. We don't get it because we're fishermen and we enjoy the tournament competition. Most people don't. Heck, I bet most people in Kalamazoo Mi, wouldn't know KVD if they saw him on the street.


I would recognize kvd, but wouldn't know who any of the golfers are.


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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: Brent S] #13248596 08/15/19 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Brent S
Originally Posted by joebass2
Originally Posted by KenTx1962
Is comparison to golf in the US lopsided, right now absolutely....does it have to be?

I have a good buddy that played on the PGA tour in the 70's and 80's (won 3 times on tour). We were playing one day and I asked him if he ever played the British Open and he said yes, once, he finished 25th or 26th and won $2,600, said he never went back because he didn't cover his expenses. So the professional golf hasn't always been what it is now, specifically before a guy named Tiger.

Audience size, golf is way bigger....uuuhhh no, so per my research 95% of all the rounds of golf played in the US last year were played by 20 million golfers. Over 40 million US citizens bought a fishing license last year. AND I believe our audience is growing faster, look at your local High School teams, many of them have 20-30-40 kids on the fishing team, how many on the golf team, 6-8?

Granted fishing is way behind where PGA is, but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. We need an organization that has the sales ability to capitalize on the size of the market and a moral compass to share it with the fisherman.

Last note...Jack Nickalus won 73 times on tour and 18 majors, his official career earnings.....$5.7mm.


Ken, using your friend and Nicklaus as examples, you're comparing fishing payouts today to PGA payouts 40 years ago. You have middle of the pack PGA golfers today making more in one year than Jack made in his career. This year, the 25th place at the Open paid $88k... That's deep, and the winner made almost $2M.
We have to face it. Fishing is not on level as golf, it won't ever be, and we probably don't really want it to be.. It's not a good spectator sport for enough people (pros already whine when they have 10-15 boats following them) and does not draw the clientele that golf does. We don't get it because we're fishermen and we enjoy the tournament competition. Most people don't. Heck, I bet most people in Kalamazoo Mi, wouldn't know KVD if they saw him on the street.


I would recognize kvd, but wouldn't know who any of the golfers are.


A lot of our friends would be the same Brent, but that's the point. Tournament fishermen are the minority.

Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: joebass2] #13248636 08/15/19 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by joebass2
Originally Posted by KenTx1962
Is comparison to golf in the US lopsided, right now absolutely....does it have to be?

I have a good buddy that played on the PGA tour in the 70's and 80's (won 3 times on tour). We were playing one day and I asked him if he ever played the British Open and he said yes, once, he finished 25th or 26th and won $2,600, said he never went back because he didn't cover his expenses. So the professional golf hasn't always been what it is now, specifically before a guy named Tiger.

Audience size, golf is way bigger....uuuhhh no, so per my research 95% of all the rounds of golf played in the US last year were played by 20 million golfers. Over 40 million US citizens bought a fishing license last year. AND I believe our audience is growing faster, look at your local High School teams, many of them have 20-30-40 kids on the fishing team, how many on the golf team, 6-8?

Granted fishing is way behind where PGA is, but maybe it doesn't have to be that way. We need an organization that has the sales ability to capitalize on the size of the market and a moral compass to share it with the fisherman.

Last note...Jack Nickalus won 73 times on tour and 18 majors, his official career earnings.....$5.7mm.


Ken, using your friend and Nicklaus as examples, you're comparing fishing payouts today to PGA payouts 40 years ago. You have middle of the pack PGA golfers today making more in one year than Jack made in his career. This year, the 25th place at the Open paid $88k... That's deep, and the winner made almost $2M.
We have to face it. Fishing is not on level as golf, it won't ever be, and we probably don't really want it to be.. It's not a good spectator sport for enough people (pros already whine when they have 10-15 boats following them) and does not draw the clientele that golf does. We don't get it because we're fishermen and we enjoy the tournament competition. Most people don't. Heck, I bet most people in Kalamazoo Mi, wouldn't know KVD if they saw him on the street.


Exactly right. You cant have the spectators needed to generate large income in fishing and on top of that the majority of the venues are public which negates admissions revenue. As for TV revenue, the Outdoor Channel is not going to produce CBS/ABC Revenues or bidding wars.

I dont think your comparison of Golf to Fishing is that far off, even if they will never be on the same page. But it did take a Tiger Woods to explode golf into what it is now, so where is your fishing version of Tiger? Too many of the "fans" in fishing hate personality (IKE, Googans, etc.). On top of that, the majority of the personalities are giving it away for free right now, youtube videos, and they are not just encouraged to by their sponsors but basically have to in order to sell themselves to get sponsors. How many PGA fans do you think sit around their computer and follow Rory in 18 holes of practice through a Go Pro? You will have to start limiting the exposure to the Pro's before you can start negotiating more money for them. I can weekly (probably daily) videos by Scott Martin, tons of videos from KVD, Swindle has a personality to attract viewers but I have seen videos of him in a laundry mat.

The other hurdle you have to overcome is where is bar that needs to be raised (like Tiger and his Masters records). Golf has - long drives, furthest putt, hole in one's, lowest score in history, etc. What is fishing going to break, or set to break? Highest 5 fish total, we are moving away from that with the new format. Maybe it will be highest overall fish count, but that is hated by too many fans of the old school. The only thing I can think of is a Tiger scenario where a new angler comes along and wins event after event in order to get people to watch and see if that angler wins the next event.

Edit - I should add that the fishing industry itself has too many hurdles as well. Golf is not the cheapest sport to get into, but the cost of entry is not as much as the cost of entry into fishing, at least if you are looking toward competition as your goal. The ability of a kid to go practice golf at a young age is fairly easy, but fishing (off the bank like a competitor) is more difficult and less available.


Last edited by Shallow Waters; 08/15/19 01:49 PM.
Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248641 08/15/19 01:41 PM
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Take a look at what pro rodeo Cowboys make, and what it cost them to go down the road. I am friends with some that qualify for the NFR most years. They sure don't do it thinking they are going to make a lot of money. I have no idea how much money the major stock shows bring in on rodeo ticket sales for 2 performances a day for 2 weeks, but the payout is insulting. Promoters are business men first and greed will always be the driving force behind their business plan.

There are way more regular golfers than regular fisherman. Just look at the size of companies like PING, Taylor Made, Calloway, etc compared to LEWS and ABU Garcia. Just golf shoe companies like Foot Joy probably out sell LEWS. Number of fishing licenses sold is not a fair comparison. Many are sold to folks that may fish 2 or 3 times a year, buy very little equipment but have to pay to keep from getting a violation. Think about how many golf courses there are in DFW area and the number of people that are out there playing on any given nice day.

Last edited by ReelSlow; 08/15/19 01:54 PM.

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Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248705 08/15/19 02:13 PM
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Professional fishing is not a spectator sport.... most of us would rather be on the lake fishing versus watching someone fish.





Re: Touched a Nerve with This One [Re: KenTx1962] #13248728 08/15/19 02:38 PM
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I just think its simple.......guys need to make up their minds what they want to make money wise.

For example. Guys complain that the payouts for winning aren't big enough. So they raise it. Then the guys say Its not enough for top 10. My point is it seems nobody is ever happy.

My honest opinion is Bass Champs has some of the best payouts out there.

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