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Jan 23rd, 2013
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Why bass might be getting harder to catch #13195623 06/25/19 03:09 PM
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Jpurdue Offline OP
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I speculated at length on this topic in my book High Percentage Fishing. Interesting to see some some actual research come out about it. A 20 year long experiment showed certain bass within the same population are genetically much more difficult to catch. These genes can become dominate in a fishery making it tougher and tougher over time.

https://www.post-gazette.com/life/o...sburgh-Pennsylvania/stories/201906130067


"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L.

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Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196157 06/25/19 11:42 PM
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Donald Harper Offline
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I agree. I call this the Predator and Pray Genes.

- The Predators get smarter over the decades of how to best catch pray. This is about ambush points and working the edge of light.
- Pray gets smarter over the decades of how to avoid being caught. This is about hiding in thick cover and working the shadows to become invisible.


Each person you work with holds some promise to your future success.
www.eletewater.com - Staying Hydrated
www.lakeoviachic.com - Booking Mexico Trips
20 Hot Spot Mapping - GPS Contour Chips - Custom Spinner Baits - Jigs -Spooks
Pure Extracts - Minnow-Night Crawler-Crayfish-Craylic


Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196227 06/26/19 12:27 AM
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Jeff From Iowa Offline
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Its all about avoiding the 20' contour line..


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Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196332 06/26/19 01:57 AM
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Razorback Offline
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There are many more people on the water now than years ago. Pressure is affecting fishing. When the tournament fishing fad subsides things might shift back the other direction.

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196499 06/26/19 07:46 AM
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Carol Knowles Offline
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Hey thanks for sharing!


Carol Knowles
Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196528 06/26/19 11:22 AM
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flukeman83 Offline
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*** very insightful stuff here ***
so --- what y'all are saying is that the fish in the USA are genetically "smarter" than say the fish in Mexico or South America or the Small Mouth variety in Minnesota.
AND --- that now,,, Fork and Toledo Bend & Sam Rayburn fish have run off all the fish that don't have the "they won't catch me genes" and are populated with a bunch of smart fish that are much harder to catch.
***REALLY***
Tell the PROS that when come fish Fork or Toledo Bend
Tell the guys that who just weighed in back to back days of 30# fish down at Falcon in their little club tournament...…….or wait ….. maybe they caught them dumb bass on the Mexico side.
Maybe -- just maybe ---- the REAL fishermen still catch fish and there are more people fishing that don't have the right "genes" to catch those fish that do have the right "genes"
JUST MAYBE !!!

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: flukeman83] #13196532 06/26/19 11:29 AM
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SteezMacQueen Offline
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Originally Posted by flukeman83
*** very insightful stuff here ***
so --- what y'all are saying is that the fish in the USA are genetically "smarter" than say the fish in Mexico or South America or the Small Mouth variety in Minnesota.
AND --- that now,,, Fork and Toledo Bend & Sam Rayburn fish have run off all the fish that don't have the "they won't catch me genes" and are populated with a bunch of smart fish that are much harder to catch.
***REALLY***
Tell the PROS that when come fish Fork or Toledo Bend
Tell the guys that who just weighed in back to back days of 30# fish down at Falcon in their little club tournament...…….or wait ….. maybe they caught them dumb bass on the Mexico side.
Maybe -- just maybe ---- the REAL fishermen still catch fish and there are more people fishing that don't have the right "genes" to catch those fish that do have the right "genes"
JUST MAYBE !!!

Post of the week. Lol


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Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: flukeman83] #13196573 06/26/19 12:34 PM
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Jpurdue Offline OP
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Originally Posted by flukeman83
*** very insightful stuff here ***
so --- what y'all are saying is that the fish in the USA are genetically "smarter" than say the fish in Mexico or South America or the Small Mouth variety in Minnesota.
AND --- that now,,, Fork and Toledo Bend & Sam Rayburn fish have run off all the fish that don't have the "they won't catch me genes" and are populated with a bunch of smart fish that are much harder to catch.
***REALLY***
Tell the PROS that when come fish Fork or Toledo Bend
Tell the guys that who just weighed in back to back days of 30# fish down at Falcon in their little club tournament...…….or wait ….. maybe they caught them dumb bass on the Mexico side.
Maybe -- just maybe ---- the REAL fishermen still catch fish and there are more people fishing that don't have the right "genes" to catch those fish that do have the right "genes"
JUST MAYBE !!!


I'm not sure you understood the article. Nobody said bass would become impossible to catch. They said they could become harder to catch. And they have a 20 year study to back up their claims. Not to mention they just make common sense. So the fact people continue to catch fish is no surprise. The fact someone weighed in 30 lbs in a tournament is no surprise. Their argument is if this "genetic" change weren't happening, everyone would be catching even more and weighing in even more.

Their main recommendation by the way was to ban harvest and possession during the spawn. The fish that are genetically easy to catch get pulled off beds and their genes don't get a chance to proliferate throughout the fishery.


"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L.

www.LunkerLore.com

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196576 06/26/19 12:38 PM
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Evolution! I've thought this for years. I know fish stories will always be just that, stories. But when you have pictures and multiple witness accounts to backup how great fishing trips used to be back in the 80's-90's (and even before as well) then it sometimes makes you wonder where all those fishing days went!


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Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196589 06/26/19 12:52 PM
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Evolution of a gene pool takes thousands of years. Not 30. Haha.


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Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196593 06/26/19 12:57 PM
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dawgkllr Offline
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I always thought it was from all of the catch and release. They're getting smarter eek

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: SteezMacQueen] #13196687 06/26/19 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Evolution of a gene pool takes thousands of years. Not 30. Haha.


Macro evolution in nature takes thousands or millions of years. Micro evolution with massive amounts of human influence can happen in a couple of generations. This is particularly true with a species that reproduces in large numbers every single year.


"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L.

www.LunkerLore.com

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196695 06/26/19 02:35 PM
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Everyone is right here there are no wrong answers. It is all speculation. Even in a study if you can bare to read to the end to get to the disclaimers you will learn all the factors that cause a study to fall short in certain areas. A fishing study can only be accurate and put out the numbers if all the variable are the same everyday and the same on every lake. We all know that in the underwater world that is not possible. All the variables change with the weather and lake conditions which all cause the study to be flawed. All studies must be controlled to be accurate.

We tend to use the word "Smarter" too freely on species that live in an environment that makes it impossible to measure this degree of smartness. These species have a simple life and are adapting daily as that life depends on Food, Survival and Spawning.

This is why I feel that Mexico fishing is so much better than U.S. lakes and it is not because they are Dumber.
- There is a very limited number of different species of fish in Mexico lakes. Not as much completion for the food sources. Bass are at the top of the food chain.
- There are very limited numbers of Rough Fish that destroy the Bass eggs and eat the fingerlings. The Spawns really mean something down south.
- Netting is a good thing; as it takes out most of the rough fish along with smaller Bass. Management has learned here in the U.S. that the small fish must be taken out to produce quality Bass and that is not going to happen except in the private sectors.
- Netting Tilapia in Mexico is a huge industry and provides many jobs. Bass benefit from this as their food source is quadrupled with the Tilapia Farms.
- Mexico is about using the lakes to provide food sources as an industry and this works great to produce the Big Bass fishing industry.
- U.S. is about providing recreation. Management stocks every species of fish in all our lakes so you can catch a fish of your choice like; Small Mouth, bluegill, carp, crappie and catfish. This one factor alone holds us back in producing lots of large Bass with all the cantabile and nest robbers.


Each person you work with holds some promise to your future success.
www.eletewater.com - Staying Hydrated
www.lakeoviachic.com - Booking Mexico Trips
20 Hot Spot Mapping - GPS Contour Chips - Custom Spinner Baits - Jigs -Spooks
Pure Extracts - Minnow-Night Crawler-Crayfish-Craylic


Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Razorback] #13196697 06/26/19 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Razorback
There are many more people on the water now than years ago. Pressure is affecting fishing. When the tournament fishing fad subsides things might shift back the other direction.


Bottom line.......its this!!!!!!!!

Re: Why bass might be getting harder to catch [Re: Jpurdue] #13196787 06/26/19 04:13 PM
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There are no wrong answers...maybe... wrong mindsets, absolutely.

What I mean is this... To just be one sided on the argument and not take into account the scientific data is asinine. Mr. Harper, you are in my opinion, one of the go to experts on this forum...and someone I admire greatly... that being said, I believe you are being too kind.

Let's call a spade a spade... people want to only believe what they want, not look at the information objectively. And, to me, this thread is a microcosm of what is wrong, at times, on this forum.

Jpurdue... thanks for bringing an interesting topic to this Forum... something I have never thought about before..


Catching big Bass is all I think about!
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