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Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: RedRaider3933] #13154185 05/14/19 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by C130
I like how teams win or get a top 10 and they’ve never been on the lake before, zero pre fishing, first time on the lake. Some of these teams need to go straight to the pro rank, just ask their parents. Lots of teams are doing it the right way, too many are buying their way in. I’ve been told numerous times, “why would I be their boat captain when I can get someone else to do it and possibly win”. One dad was just posting how his son had “put in the hard work” then the post right before stated he’d never been on the lake prior to the tournament. Same dad that isn’t the boat captain but fishes all the time. Nothing like teaching them the right way.


And this is exactly why ONLY parents/legal guardians of one of the team members should be allowed to be a boat captain. Too many parents out there willing to coddle their child to the top by paying for the best boat captain. It really is pathetic.


Maybe, by your wisdom, their mommas should be their high school football coaches too? Or their pot dealers teaching them shop?

I paid someone to teach my son championship level chess....what's the difference?


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: SteezMacQueen] #13154200 05/14/19 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by C130
I like how teams win or get a top 10 and they’ve never been on the lake before, zero pre fishing, first time on the lake. Some of these teams need to go straight to the pro rank, just ask their parents. Lots of teams are doing it the right way, too many are buying their way in. I’ve been told numerous times, “why would I be their boat captain when I can get someone else to do it and possibly win”. One dad was just posting how his son had “put in the hard work” then the post right before stated he’d never been on the lake prior to the tournament. Same dad that isn’t the boat captain but fishes all the time. Nothing like teaching them the right way.


And this is exactly why ONLY parents/legal guardians of one of the team members should be allowed to be a boat captain. Too many parents out there willing to coddle their child to the top by paying for the best boat captain. It really is pathetic.


Maybe, by your wisdom, their mommas should be their high school football coaches too? Or their pot dealers teaching them shop?

I paid someone to teach my son championship level chess....what's the difference?




Because they are not paying to have their kids taught, they are paying for them to win, with little effort actually put in by the actual competitors. Your son was taught and had to learn skills then apply those skills. These kids, not all of them, show up and are told exactly where to throw and what to throw. Do they learn anything by doing that? Not really.


Go Tech
Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: RedRaider3933] #13154205 05/14/19 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by C130
I like how teams win or get a top 10 and they’ve never been on the lake before, zero pre fishing, first time on the lake. Some of these teams need to go straight to the pro rank, just ask their parents. Lots of teams are doing it the right way, too many are buying their way in. I’ve been told numerous times, “why would I be their boat captain when I can get someone else to do it and possibly win”. One dad was just posting how his son had “put in the hard work” then the post right before stated he’d never been on the lake prior to the tournament. Same dad that isn’t the boat captain but fishes all the time. Nothing like teaching them the right way.


And this is exactly why ONLY parents/legal guardians of one of the team members should be allowed to be a boat captain. Too many parents out there willing to coddle their child to the top by paying for the best boat captain. It really is pathetic.


Maybe, by your wisdom, their mommas should be their high school football coaches too? Or their pot dealers teaching them shop?

I paid someone to teach my son championship level chess....what's the difference?




Because they are not paying to have their kids taught, they are paying for them to win, with little effort actually put in by the actual competitors. Your son was taught and had to learn skills then apply those skills. These kids, not all of them, show up and are told exactly where to throw and what to throw. Do they learn anything by doing that? Not really.


I see your point and I agree.


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: RedRaider3933] #13154245 05/14/19 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by C130
I like how teams win or get a top 10 and they’ve never been on the lake before, zero pre fishing, first time on the lake. Some of these teams need to go straight to the pro rank, just ask their parents. Lots of teams are doing it the right way, too many are buying their way in. I’ve been told numerous times, “why would I be their boat captain when I can get someone else to do it and possibly win”. One dad was just posting how his son had “put in the hard work” then the post right before stated he’d never been on the lake prior to the tournament. Same dad that isn’t the boat captain but fishes all the time. Nothing like teaching them the right way.


And this is exactly why ONLY parents/legal guardians of one of the team members should be allowed to be a boat captain. Too many parents out there willing to coddle their child to the top by paying for the best boat captain. It really is pathetic.


Maybe, by your wisdom, their mommas should be their high school football coaches too? Or their pot dealers teaching them shop?

I paid someone to teach my son championship level chess....what's the difference?




Because they are not paying to have their kids taught, they are paying for them to win, with little effort actually put in by the actual competitors. Your son was taught and had to learn skills then apply those skills. These kids, not all of them, show up and are told exactly where to throw and what to throw. Do they learn anything by doing that? Not really.


This is an extremely small number of participants that gets blown up on here like it is the majority. The vast majority of these boats have a parent/grandparent of one of the kids. And I dont believe we should paint the picture that fishing is as simple as point and shoot either. I know I have personally been in a boat, guided and unguided, with people who were casting where I felt I was casting, working the same bait the same way as I felt I was working, and they were catching and I was not. Do some kids have it significantly easier than other kids? Absolutely, there is no truly level playing field in any competitive sport. Do I think that people should go out and get the best guy on the lake to captain their kids? Absolutely not, but its that guys decision to go out with kids and give his time for free, because paying that guy is a rules violation and would fall into cheating (not saying it isnt happening, but the organizations put the rules out there in order to be able to enforce them should someone come forward with a protest).

We fished THSBA for 3 years, and I talked to a ton of captains at weigh-ins, ramps, check-ins, etc. and only 1 time in 3 years of 7+ events a year did I talk to someone who was not an immediate family member of one of the kids.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: Shallow Waters] #13154268 05/14/19 07:20 PM
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. [/quote]

This is an extremely small number of participants that gets blown up on here like it is the majority. The vast majority of these boats have a parent/grandparent of one of the kids. And I dont believe we should paint the picture that fishing is as simple as point and shoot either. I know I have personally been in a boat, guided and unguided, with people who were casting where I felt I was casting, working the same bait the same way as I felt I was working, and they were catching and I was not. Do some kids have it significantly easier than other kids? Absolutely, there is no truly level playing field in any competitive sport. Do I think that people should go out and get the best guy on the lake to captain their kids? Absolutely not, but its that guys decision to go out with kids and give his time for free, because paying that guy is a rules violation and would fall into cheating (not saying it isnt happening, but the organizations put the rules out there in order to be able to enforce them should someone come forward with a protest).

We fished THSBA for 3 years, and I talked to a ton of captains at weigh-ins, ramps, check-ins, etc. and only 1 time in 3 years of 7+ events a year did I talk to someone who was not an immediate family member of one of the kids.[/quote]

There are a lot of guys like myself that aren't "related" to the kids who are there. At least two of the top ten teams had captains that were not blood related but they are considered family. You spend 4 years with a pair of kids throughout the highs and lows of their lives and you become family. Some of ya'll want to focus so hard on ANY negative or perceived negative that you refuse to see the good that is in the majority of the program. (not directed at you SW)
This whole thing comes down to jealousy and "get off my grass" mentality but hey, ya'll just keep on
de

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: RedEar12] #13154272 05/14/19 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RedEar12
I congratulate all of the highschoolers who are learning to fish tournaments without cheating



And we thank you for that sentiment


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Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: bassfinder78155] #13154278 05/14/19 07:35 PM
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Agreed txduck.

I will add that as a parent who has taught a kid to fish, and is working on 2 more, if it was as easy as cast this right there then I would be able to get a lot more fishing in and a lot less entertaining on the water.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: RedRaider3933] #13154300 05/14/19 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by SteezMacQueen
Originally Posted by RedRaider3933
Originally Posted by C130
I like how teams win or get a top 10 and they’ve never been on the lake before, zero pre fishing, first time on the lake. Some of these teams need to go straight to the pro rank, just ask their parents. Lots of teams are doing it the right way, too many are buying their way in. I’ve been told numerous times, “why would I be their boat captain when I can get someone else to do it and possibly win”. One dad was just posting how his son had “put in the hard work” then the post right before stated he’d never been on the lake prior to the tournament. Same dad that isn’t the boat captain but fishes all the time. Nothing like teaching them the right way.


And this is exactly why ONLY parents/legal guardians of one of the team members should be allowed to be a boat captain. Too many parents out there willing to coddle their child to the top by paying for the best boat captain. It really is pathetic.


Maybe, by your wisdom, their mommas should be their high school football coaches too? Or their pot dealers teaching them shop?

I paid someone to teach my son championship level chess....what's the difference?




Because they are not paying to have their kids taught, they are paying for them to win, with little effort actually put in by the actual competitors. Your son was taught and had to learn skills then apply those skills. These kids, not all of them, show up and are told exactly where to throw and what to throw. Do they learn anything by doing that? Not really.


The captains aren't suppose to be paid beyond a modest gas reimbursement, we got $50 race track gift card for gas. Which doesnt begin to cover expense usually

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: bassfinder78155] #13154307 05/14/19 08:08 PM
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Come on folks this is the first time this has happened.

As an outside observer of the THSBA, I've seen a handful of cases of rule infractions, but very few cases of cheating. Don't see how this association is any worse than any other tournament organization.

Professional Anglers still get DQ'd today. Are they cheating? Rarely to almost never. Most is unintentional.

I just don't know why THSBA is receiving so much heat, it seems as though they are taking proper actions when violations, rule infractions are reported. What more are they to do?


Maybe volunteer Captains should receive a stipend to cover expenses and all kids need to pay dues to cover these stipends as opposed to depending on participants to voluntarily help cover costs.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: bassfinder78155] #13154308 05/14/19 08:10 PM
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My thoughts. Ryan is a cheater, has always been a cheater. I have called him a cheater openly. I have called tournament directors and said he was a cheater. He finally got caught and I am glad. Hopefully they will modify the rules with a clear statement that say if you have ever been DQ'd from a tournament, you can NOT be a captain. Ryan should never be any where near any competition involving fishing ever again in his life.

And for those that want to reference the "rumors" of him cheating. He had the opportunity to pay for his own polygraph to clear his name after he was DQ'd for failing a polygraph. His excuse was his blood pressure medication. He NEVER went and paid for a Polygraph to clear his name. His excuse was that he couldn't afford it. As well know, this goes years and years back. We all know how much tournament fishing cost and if he can afford to still fish whatever events that will still let him, then he dang sure had the money to clear his name. He didn't ever clear it because he cheated....and he knew it....and he continued to cheat. I hope they hit him as hard as they possibly can.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: JeffLStevens] #13154325 05/14/19 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffLStevens
Ryan should never be any where near any competition involving fishing ever again in his life.


I'd guess this will do it from him,

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: JeffLStevens] #13154331 05/14/19 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffLStevens

And for those that want to reference the "rumors" of him cheating.


My previous mention of "rumors" was not about this instance or this individual, it was in reference to previous threads and comments on high school fishing.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: bassfinder78155] #13154346 05/14/19 08:49 PM
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Everyone needs to let the high school part of this go!! Focus on the adult who always has been and always will be a cheater! He was dq'd years ago in an Angler's Choice pro am! He was charged but before it all went to court he went away for some other issues! by the time got out the Judge that had pushed it had passed away and with him went the case. When he was dq'd from the ABA a few years ago I commented on here on a thread about the incident. Then was attacked on here by one of his buddies. I gave my name and some how they found my phone number and it continued on. I had about an hour conversation with Ryan bc he knows me bc I protest him any time he shows up at any tournament! In the end I told him I hoped he had learned his lesson and that he could try to rebuild his reputation! Apparently he hasn't and now he has drug a bunch of kids into this mess with him! I hope they finally convict him so the argument about he has never been convicted finally goes away and so does he from any type of organized fishing tournaments!

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: bassfinder78155] #13154382 05/14/19 09:22 PM
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People will cheat at any level and sometimes its name recognition they want more than the money. Heck I fished a one versus one tournament against a TFF member here. No money, just bragging rights. He knew he was going to win and so did I. He still felt the need to cheat though and wasn't even man enough to admit it after I found out.

Re: High School fish tournament fraud [Re: WAWI] #13154552 05/15/19 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by WAWI
[

The captains aren't suppose to be paid beyond a modest gas reimbursement, we got $50 race track gift card for gas. Which doesnt begin to cover expense usually


...Some are getting more than that. I have mixed views on the whole deal. High school fishing is getting heat because it does have issues. Issues that tournaments on other levels dont have so much... Overzealous parents that dont know the rules, practices, and values that are second nature to most tournament anglers. Shortages of qualified captains and shortages of knowledgeable captains. The kids are the least of the problem! They just want to fish and learn. I think high school fishing is a great thing. Ive done it two seasons but, theres no way Id do it if I didnt have some relation to the kids I coach. I think THSBA is doing a good job but, there still needs to be more done to educate all involved that lack tournament fishing etiquette, knowledge, and understanding of rules. In the two seasons Ive been a captain Ive seen quite a few things that were questionable at best. You dont take fish to the scales to see if theyll measure (especially if theyre 12)!! The off limits needs to be enforced or done away with. First of all, I talk fishing to a lot of friends and I dont want to worry about violating off limits for something Im not even fishing. Second, its such an unclear and grey area rule I think its violated all the time. These things need to be corrected because theyll be fishing against us someday in our trails. That being said I think most will have a better knowledge of tournament fishing because of what theyre learning in high school fishing. How much tournament knowledge did you have in high school? Lets just correct their mistakes and teach them the right way.

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