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Champion hull #13066623 02/18/19 06:00 PM
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What was the guys name that designed the Champion hulls? John Story I think. Were these molds sold to another builder after the demise of Champion, and if so who? Had a late nineties Cobra that I was told had the Story hull, but was never really sure. Also heard Legend mentioned.


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Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13066672 02/18/19 06:47 PM
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Ranger is building them under Stratus


Hughes Marine
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Re: Champion hull [Re: boatman025] #13066769 02/18/19 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by boatman025
Ranger is building them under Stratus

Not any longer,Stratos has been discontinued. I believe Charger is now building the old Champion 198 & 210.

Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13066885 02/18/19 10:05 PM
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http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=59135

Have at it. Pat is the best authority on Champion.


May 4, 2023
Originally Posted by OTFF
Once again, I agree with you.
Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067042 02/19/19 01:03 AM
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Short version - several manf's wanted to buy Champion including Johnny Morris when they were in business and doing well, but they would not sell. Champion eventually went out of business (for various reasons, but boat quality was not one of them). Stratos picked up the molds and built them for a time, and through various company sales/megers and the like ie Irwin Jacobs, Genmar, Platinum, etc... Eventually Johnny finally was able to get the molds when he bought Ranger/Triton/Stratos.

EDIT - appears there are differing version of what happened to the molds (some report they were destroyed by Plantium), so I struck the above. We know they at least existed long enough for Stratos to use them to build Stratos-branded Champs. Also I swear I read Charger was paying Johnny for 210 and 198 rights, but that doesn't appear to be correct, so I either misread or mis-remembered, or had bad source info - apologies.

As mentioned above, Charger has licensed through Johnny the ability to build splashed the 210 and 198 hulls...Theoretically the exact same hulls with modernization/improvements as required, but I don't know all the details. Charger Board prob has the details. (See Grout's note about 1" difference below.)

Also, Basscat is taking the 203 hull and is combining it with their Puma hull, commonly called the "Hybrid" which is still in development, although they've had running prototypes for some time now. Supposed to be best of both worlds - runs like a Champ, fishes like a BassCat. No licensing from Johnny required. Lots of folks are waiting for this one.

But, for an interesting read, definitely dig into the Pat Goff thread @Allison1 linked above.

Last edited by 78Staff; 02/19/19 06:25 AM. Reason: corrections
Re: Champion hull [Re: 78Staff] #13067060 02/19/19 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 78Staff
Short version - several manf's wanted to buy Champion including Johnny Morris when they were in business and doing well, but they would not sell. Champion eventually went out of business (for various reasons, but boat quality was not one of them). Stratos picked up the molds and built them for a time, and through various company sales/megers and the like ie Irwin Jacobs, Genmar, Platinum, etc... Eventually Johnny finally was able to get the molds (via Stratos) when he bought Ranger/Triton/Stratos.

As mentioned above, Charger has licensed through Johnny the ability to build the 210 and 198 hulls...Theoretically the exact same hulls with modernization/improvements as required, but I don't know all the details. Charger Board prob has the details.

Also, Basscat is taking the 203 hull and is combining it with their Puma hull, commonly called the "Hybrid" which is still in development, although they've had running prototypes for some time now. Supposed to be best of both worlds - runs like a Champ, fishes like a BassCat. No licensing from Johnny required. Lots of folks are waiting for this one.

But, for an interesting read, definitely dig into the Pat Goff thread @Allison1 linked above.



That story isnít accurate. The Champion molds are gone, JM never had them. Rumor is that they were destroyed by Randy Hopper when he was with Platinum Equity. Charger splashed a hull and made their own molds, they license nothing from anyone.

For awhile, after killing off the champ name, they (Platinum Equity) made some Strampions. Champion hull, but they stuck the Stratos name on it, didnít go over too well.


But some of the Cobra hulls were very close to the Champ hulls early on, then they got changed later on where they werenít so similar. I believe Hawk hulls might have also been similar.

Re: Champion hull [Re: grout-scout] #13067140 02/19/19 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Originally Posted by 78Staff
Short version - several manf's wanted to buy Champion including Johnny Morris when they were in business and doing well, but they would not sell. Champion eventually went out of business (for various reasons, but boat quality was not one of them). Stratos picked up the molds and built them for a time, and through various company sales/megers and the like ie Irwin Jacobs, Genmar, Platinum, etc... Eventually Johnny finally was able to get the molds (via Stratos) when he bought Ranger/Triton/Stratos.

As mentioned above, Charger has licensed through Johnny the ability to build the 210 and 198 hulls...Theoretically the exact same hulls with modernization/improvements as required, but I don't know all the details. Charger Board prob has the details.

Also, Basscat is taking the 203 hull and is combining it with their Puma hull, commonly called the "Hybrid" which is still in development, although they've had running prototypes for some time now. Supposed to be best of both worlds - runs like a Champ, fishes like a BassCat. No licensing from Johnny required. Lots of folks are waiting for this one.

But, for an interesting read, definitely dig into the Pat Goff thread @Allison1 linked above.



That story isnít accurate. The Champion molds are gone, JM never had them. Rumor is that they were destroyed by Randy Hopper when he was with Platinum Equity. Charger splashed a hull and made their own molds, they license nothing from anyone.

For awhile, after killing off the champ name, they (Platinum Equity) made some Strampions. Champion hull, but they stuck the Stratos name on it, didnít go over too well.

But some of the Cobra hulls were very close to the Champ hulls early on, then they got changed later on where they werenít so similar. I believe Hawk hulls might have also been similar.



That's the problem with the old stories and rumors, you never know what or how much is true lol. I had heard the destruction rumor as well, seems suspect but I couldn't say either way to be honest. It comes from Champion Moderator on BBC though so may be accurate. Hell we may never really know frown.

We know Stratos Champions were built with Champion molds, basically 100% Champions with Stratos branding. So the molds lasted at least that long.

I suppose Kelly Powers would know, has he ever said specifically? He's the one doing the Champion work for Charger now - I was under the impression they had to license from Johnny, but if that's incorrect (trying to recall where I got that from - so many posts and stories and reports over the years lol) then I goofed. bolt

Basscat 203/Puma info is legit, hopefully Rick get's it tweaked to his satisfaction.

Re Storie and Cobra, there was some deep v hull DNC clause when he left Champion, but he was able to work around it from what I've seen posted. Don't know much about Cobra's/Hawks though.

Pat Goff and Lea and Kelly are certainly the folks in the know - folks who want to learn more should definitely hit up the Champ and Charger forums over on BBC.

thumb

Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067197 02/19/19 03:43 AM
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Kelly said that they changed the topcap by 1Ē so that there could not be any kind of patent infringement, but in all honesty whoís going to go after them? JM technically owns the name I suppose, but would he waste the money trying to sue Charger for the 20 bass boats they make a year? Doubtful


Iíve said since Vexus was announced that there was a possibility for the champ hull to re-appear. Everyone says Iím nuts though, but Hoppers there now and I donít see why it wouldnít be plausible.

Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067200 02/19/19 03:47 AM
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When John Storie sold to Porthouse he was bound by a clever non compete.
He could build anything he wanted as long as it didnít have the deep V wedge hull.

John and Bruce Benton splashed a ranger 487, added turning chines and sharpened the pad. That was the cobra viper and hawk. Which have nothing in common with a champ other than Storie.

Now about the molds? Only hopper and j Morris can say.

The charger is a splash. Not from original molds.

And just so wrong information doesnít get repeated. Storie had nothing to do with any champ hull after the 86Ē boats.


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Re: Champion hull [Re: Pat Goff] #13067217 02/19/19 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Pat Goff
When John Storie sold to Porthouse he was bound by a clever non compete.
He could build anything he wanted as long as it didnít have the deep V wedge hull.

John and Bruce Benton splashed a ranger 487, added turning chines and sharpened the pad. That was the cobra viper and hawk. Which have nothing in common with a champ other than Storie.

Now about the molds? Only hopper and j Morris can say.

The charger is a splash. Not from original molds.

And just so wrong information doesnít get repeated. Storie had nothing to do with any champ hull after the 86Ē boats.




Do you know who designed the wide bodies? Other than they are obviously wider, how similar are they to the skinnyís? In other words, did they just stretch them out or was there some significant changes?


Not sure if Iíve ever read it anywheres, but what year did they have to let you go Pat? Was it when they went under.

Re: Champion hull [Re: Pat Goff] #13067258 02/19/19 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Pat Goff
When John Storie sold to Porthouse he was bound by a clever non compete.
He could build anything he wanted as long as it didnít have the deep V wedge hull.

John and Bruce Benton splashed a ranger 487, added turning chines and sharpened the pad. That was the cobra viper and hawk. Which have nothing in common with a champ other than Storie.

Now about the molds? Only hopper and j Morris can say.

The charger is a splash. Not from original molds.

And just so wrong information doesnít get repeated. Storie had nothing to do with any champ hull after the 86Ē boats.




Thanks Pat - the "history" thread is a great read. thumb

I'll be honest, the 210 Elite has my attention - not sure why it's not more popular considering the lineage - unless there's something wrong with the Charger build. But I'm also holding out on the BCB 203/Puma Hybrid. Figure won't be in a new boat for another year or so anyway, maybe it will be a reality by then.

heck, that '03 203 in the TFF sale boards caught my eye as well smile.

Last edited by 78Staff; 02/19/19 06:14 AM.
Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067366 02/19/19 01:08 PM
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The first "wide" hull was the '90 190. Mostly designed by Bill Pace. It had several tweaks done to it.
He also did the 204 and 180, neither one of those were particularly great boats at all.
Dave Schlick was the genius behind the 91" boats: 202, 181,191,186,171,221. To the diehard champ guys, those are the best ride and handling of any of them.
Dave kinda got pushed out on the next gen: 203, 187, 193, 223. They made changes to combat the "tippy" lie which is all the competition could throw at them.
The beam forward 206 was the last Mt. Home champ.
After the implosion, when Genmar stole it, and moved it to the Stratos plant in TN, Alan Stenson was in charge, he built the 188, 198 and 210. His DNA is all over those boats.

I was never a part of the TN program. Those maggots really abused some very good friends like Kelly Powers and John Reiley.

And just to make sure everyone is clear, champ did not go down due to a lack of boat sales. 100% due to complete failure by Dave Porthouse Jr.


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Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067406 02/19/19 02:01 PM
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cheers


Stinson was the one that I couldnít think of.

Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13067585 02/19/19 04:08 PM
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Alan was the Skeeter starfire designer, then he started Nitro, sold to tracker. He went to work for Stratos and designed all of their boats. You can see his fingerprints on all of those hulls.
The champ stuff sorta messed him up, but he's not stupid, and picked up what made the deep V wedge work, and made some decent running boats. I've never driven a 210, but the 188 and 198 are both good boats.


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Re: Champion hull [Re: Hogdaddy] #13072102 02/23/19 02:34 AM
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Just for sanitiy's sake, I tried to track back and figure out where i read about Charger and Johnny and the licensing, etc... So it may not be accurate, but at least I was was to find it again lol...

https://www.nybass.com/showthread.p...amp;p=1009817&viewfull=1#post1009817

Quote
...in the bass boat world,this is a BIG deal. Many company's have tried to buy out champion, including ranger, basscat and Johnny Morris back in 2001 when champion was at its heights. The reason why champion went out of business is because of the guys running it. Long story short, they put money not where it was needed and pretty much drove the brand into the ground. It had nothing to do with the product. Well, just recently when Johnny Morris bought ranger/triton/stratos there was a little bonus thrown in...he bought the molds for the champion models that he was so desperately trying to buy back in 2001 and was declined. He has the upper hand with those molds. Charger boats contacted him, and worked out a deal on the champion 210 elite mold (which is above) . Basscat bought a champion 203, and copied the hull to make their hybrid puma, however they did some changes to the hill to keep Johnny Morris's lawyers away from them because they did not purchase the hull molds from Johnny...so unlike the charger 210 which is 100% still a champion, the basscat 203 hybrid is only a tiny portion of true champion. Depending on chargers 210 with sales, the next mold they might get from Johnny is he 198. You might see a good variety of champion/charger boats back on the market.

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