The discussion on Camelot Bell got me thinking back to the multi page discussion a few years ago on La Perla, the ranch in South Texas that was trying to grow giant bass. Any news on it? Any monster Bass being caught?

Either way make sure your scale is legit...

Best I can remember, TPW blamed them for the death of a ShareLunker and that was the end of the la perla threads.

that's funny

how many have died in TPWD's possession?

It's for sale. check out zillow

I saw them for sale in the Texas Monthly magazine!

Some one has to know the whole story on this. What happened? Funds?

I figured it was about the only place that could break the record.

Looking at the pics, looks like water supply became an issue.

Apparently the section he is selling, Twin Lakes, isn't the same section that he was doing the bass management on. Listing says he is selling it to finance and focus on the main lakes section.

Great read and good to know things are on track there. I wish he was still posting here, it was very interesting hearing his plans and status.

I just reached out to Dr. Schwarz the other day. The lakes are doing fine. In 2015/16 he had some issues with high salinity. He's fixed that. Last year if I recall correctly he removed something like 7000 bass from the lake through electro shocking. That's his preferred method to remove fish so that he keep angling pressure low. He has another round of electro shocking scheduled for the end of February. That should be the next good data point he gets on the health of the La Perla. To the best of my knowledge Jalisco is still doing great.

1k or 7k? Article above said he donated 1k to Falcon (which is awesome), I�d hate to wonder what they�d have to do with 7k (dig a hole)?

Probably selling them to someone for their own lakes.

Good to hear it's doing well, I agree with the above poster, it was interesting hearing from him on here. Hope he raises the record.

I checked my notes. He removed 7,000 in 2016 and donated another 1000 to Falcon in 2017. I assume the 7,000 were either sold, donated, eaten, or destroyed. Probably a combination.

A record from there or any private lake is meaningless. Kinda like deer with orange tags in their ears in cages. I hope some little kid with a snoppy pole and a minnow catches the next record from under the trinity river bridge lol. That would be fitting.

Jalisco is just fine. As is La Perla. I could be mistaken, but I think Dr. Gary posted his Jalisco contract with TPWD right here. What could and could not be done with fish from Jalisco was spelled out explicitly. The 1,000 or so that were released into Falcon is fact. The guys from Falcon Lake Tackle helped release them in several good areas, as did other Falcon regulars. There are a couple ranches inside the gates of the original La Perla. I don't think the small ranch for sale is Dr. Schwarz's. It's another family's place.

As for why Dr. Schwarz hasn't posted here in a long time. Why would he? He wasn't treated very well the last time he tried.

First part of that is awesome! I wish nothing but the best of luck for the man and his mission. The last line sucks- but this is TFF and I get it.

Meaningless, you say??

That's painting with a pretty broad paintbrush there buddy. I respect everyone's opinion but it ain't meaningless to a lot of folks including myself.

I suppose you are in the group that thinks you can simply dig a hole in the ground, fill it with money and a few years later have yourself a genuine big bass factory.

Lots of folks have tried to grow a State Record Bass since the beginning of time and nobody has managed to do it yet much less a World Record. And by the way a 22 pound bass is a WORLD away from an 18 pound bass regardless of what you think.

If it were as easy as some seem to think it is to grow a state record it would have been done many times over by now.

I don't think it's easy at all! I also do not think it would or should count at all!! Same way I feel about high fenced deer.

Not that it matters but there are two sets of records. One for private water and one for public.

The whole "high-fenced" deer argument has been made many times here.

Bottom line is that there have been thousands of freakishly large deer raised in the confines of a high fence ranch. There has yet to be One Single 18 pound Bass raised by anyone. That is the only point I am trying to make.

Whether it should count or not is a moot point. It is like a unicorn.

Lake Fork is the only one I'm aware of that grew a 18 lb'er.

That is correct Ronnie.

Saying a state record bass shouldn't count because it was grown in a private lake is like saying flying reindeer shouldn't be allowed to pull Santa's sleigh because its not fair to the reindeer that can't fly.

I'm not saying the act of growing a giant bass is not worthy of note or easy. I'm saying that for it to be a record it has to be accessible to all people. Its the blue collar in me. Hell I could pay to fish stuff like that more so than most but it doesnt do much for me. I like the process, that's why I dont fish with guides anymore. Kudos to whoever grows big fish and they are impressive just dont call them records or put a giant asterix. And please no one get butt hurt cause it's just an opinion. But I think it's pretty reasonable opinion

I get where you're coming from WAWI. I am as big a redneck as anyone on here.

My point is that no matter how much money you throw into a lake Nobody has grown an 18 pound bass. So when the guys say, "That shouldn't count as a record"

So what is it they are saying shouldn't count??

I dont know, I'm no lawyer, it just doesnt pass my smell test. Something about it feels wrong. Give him a blue ribbon or something.

I think it should count as a state record. A private lake state record if it's caught in a private lake but doesn't look like it's gonna happen. Also doesn't look promising that a new state record is going to be caught in public waters either. It's been what 27 years since the previous record was caught and technology has been improved beyond our wildest imagination. I mean we can actually see a fish bite our lure now. I'm believing kinda sorta that there's not a new state record swimming in Texas waters public or private. So I guess Ken is right, the question or answer is a moot point.

The only way I see the state record coming from a public lake is if Choke or Falcon can manage to have about 8-10 years of full pool. But that�s never gonna happen.

That whole deal was real bad look from parks & wildlife using sal offspring to stock private pond

How bout I buy you a Pabst Blue Ribbon and we can talk about it??

You do know that many of them SAL offspring put in La Perla were given back to TPWD at around 1.5 years weighing 3-4lbs to stock TPWD's Lake X where Gary Klein just caught that 13lber. TPWD knew what they were doing.

I didn�t say they don�t know what they are doing still not a good look that�s just my opinion

I definitely understand, there were lots of people that have your same feelings about it. I didn't like the deal at first, then got to hear about all the benefits it would bring to TPWD.
Basically giving them a southern stocking facility plus getting the numerous fast growing 1-2 year old fish they got for Lake X and other study fisheries.
I now believe it's benefiting all us fishermen.

I'll buy you one

Does Pabst Blue Ribbon contain corn syrup?

Deal!

PM me some details of when you would be available and where to meet and we'll Get-R-Done.

Japan can produce a 22 lb bass but Texas can't, not even when they have private ponds and selective breeding.

From my brief encounters in Japan it snows there, I sure it doesn't get as hot as Texas, and Japan is half the size of Texas.

If TPWD would stock trout in public waters regularly in the month of October, their would be a new state record bass in short order. The bass would feast on them before warm weather ever had a chance to kill them.

I'm no fan of Callie, but's that's what their monster bass are eating.

The pressure of today�s fishing would have to slow considerably also I think. If a record is ever caught I think it will come from a lake under the radar and not from Fork or Falcon.

very observant...

Dr. Schwarz signed his life away on the deal with TPWD. Frankly I�m not sure how a rational person can look at the deal and think anything other than he got screwed. He shoulders all the cost of maintaining the lake and forage and can�t even fish it himself for 15 years. He will be in his 80s before he can make a cast there without asking permission. He�s incurred enormous personal cost so we could all see just what�s possible in Texas.

Schwarz is the man in my book. I wish he would post on here more often.

If TPWD had some knowledge, imagination and creativity they could�ve managed the hydrilla in lake Austin carefully and stocked it with trout. Maybe we would�ve ended up with a new world record bass. During wet years and consistent water flows from Travis, it wasn�t uncommon for water to be in the high 50�s to low 60�s in the upper part of the lake well into May. Just imagine. Those bass could�ve been feasting on trout from October through May which is about the same stocking schedule in place for the many SoCal lakes that have kicked out 18+ pound fish. But we�ll never know what could�ve happened. Its going to take a couple of decades, maybe more, before lake Austin begins to resemble what it once was five to ten years ago.

Deep South Texas, not possible in the rest of Texas.

In my humble opinion,I could care less if the TP&W can grow a state record bass.Instead of wasting all that time & money how about we take care of the lakes we have now,especially out west to make sure they are well stocked with forage and bass,A state or world record just doesn't mean that much to me unless it were to happen naturally,not on someones private ranch.mi dos centavos

Growing a record bass, while definitely not being cheap or easy, is like breaking the home run record using steroids. You get an asterisk. Same with high fence deer.

When you manipulate the genes and feed them all it is to me is a fish fry. Now if some offspring find their way into public lakes like Falcon then it�s legit.

I kind of miss the old days when we stocked North American largemouth, limits by 10 am (15 then) and I enjoyed catching 3-5 #�s easily. The recreational advantages of NA largemouth got lost in trying to get 13# + fish that are nothing but work.

In January 1981 John Alaxender caught a 14.3lb largemouth bass from private Lake Echo which was the new Texas state record. It surpassed the 14.09lb state record caught by Jimmy Kimball in February 1980 from Monticello that set off the new Florida strain state record trophy bass craze. Less than a month later Alaxender broke his own state record with a 15.5lb state record bass from Echo......caught again from a �private lake�, I don�t remember any *asterisk* in the top bass lists with Alaxender�s catch because it was caught on a private lake anymore than I remember an *asterisk* beside Kimball�s name because the fish was a completely different strain of bass than the previous long standing record from Medina(Florida vs northern strain). Technically if a state record bass was caught from Squaw Creek that record would have come from �private waters�. Squaw Creek is a private lake. You have to pay $30 to fish there instead of $1000 but it is no less private. It�s all semantics!

Good point 361v.

Soooo, can I get a waypoint to see the flying reindeer?

Trout will start to die off when water temperatures get above 70 F, and what is the average water temperature of lakes in October?

Grass carp have been in Austin since 2003, since then we've had about 15 ShareLunkers out of Austin and I don't think anybody complained about a lack of hydrilla during that time. That would indicate hydrilla was being managed carfully in Austin during that period. The problem happened during the drought of 2011. Water flow through the lake was minimal and the conditions became very suitable for hydrilla, which expanded to worrying levels very quickly. In the past, LCRA water intake structures were partially blocked and homes were flooded due to excessive hydrilla build up causing water levels to rise further during a flood. If there was a flood after the drought ended there could have been serious problems. In my opinion, it was only the last couple of stockings of grass carp that tipped the balance resulting in the elimination of hydrilla and milfoil.

With hardly any plant material to eat, the natural mortality rate of grass carp can be expected to be higher than usual. We've also had a couple of big floods that have washed out many grass carp into LBL and the Colorado River. In my opinion, Austin could start recovering vegetation within 10 years. Only time will tell. Instead of the trout/bass feeding strategy, TPWD went for the genetics route to produce bigger fish. However, if some anglers are prepared to pay for stocking trout in Austin, maybe TPWD would be interested.

I bet they�d gladly swap hydrilla for the zebra mussels now!

Perhaps TPWD knows about multi-tasking. The research can occur alongside lake management activities. It's not all about getting a state record fish, it is mainly about improving the average size of trophy bass.

There are a variety of reasons why fish get stocked, but just because a lake isn't stocked for years doesn't mean anything is wrong. Natural recruitment can sustain a bass population. Florida largemouth bass are often stocked to improve the genetics of a population, but not every population needs the boost. Have a read of Hal Schram's article in In-Fisherman magazine.

Contrary to popular belief, west Texas lakes still get stocked where needed. Of course, drought and toxic golden algae has been plaguing west Texas which makes it difficult to stock fish when you know the lake might be hit again e.g., Spence, Moss Creek, Sweetwater, Brady, etc. District biologists in west Texas request bass stockings every year based on management plans. I don't believe any public lake in west Texas was not stocked when it had a genuine need.

Yep and they saw their sharelunker donations plummet the year after that cr@p got made public

Living in West Texas my whole life (50+) has allowed me to see first hand how the TP&W operates out here,they do good work,I won't say they don't,but with a limited amount of money they prioritize how the money and resources are used.We have lakes out here that are in the best shape they have been in 25 years,it's not about multi-tasking it's about taking care of a region that sometimes gets overlooked,If you never get west of I35 you might not understand the issues we face.The local bass club and the local Triton dealer having to build our own boat ramp on Hubbard Creek because we couldn't use the others and TP&W didn't have the funds.The public boat ramp on Oak Creek was built in the 50's and is known as the tire popper because it's so narrow,I could go on and on,but you get the idea.That's why I don't see the need to spend the money on a dream.Again JMHO and probally a not very popular one,but mine none the less.

Ya'll act like millions were somehow squandered here. What money has been spent? They put a small portion of one years fry into a private lake that the TPWD 100% controls and do not have to pay to maintain. Dr. Schwarz posted his contract on here for all to see. I'm traveling now, but I have them saved back home and can re-post them. There is no conspiracy here.

Sure, I think everyone would love to see a new state record. Even if that doesn't happen though, the TPWD gets access to vast knowledge of how the genetics behave in a highly optimized environment. (free of charge!) It's like trying to go to the moon, you learn all sorts of extremely valuable things along the way.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing. We want to be able to go out and catch a bunch of big fish. Maybe have a shot at the fish of a lifetime. The knowledge gained from this experiment will ultimately benefit the every angler in Texas to one degree or another.

I hope the record is never broken, I hope the St Clair fish stands against the onslaught of science, genetics, breeding, the hatchery in Athens, la perla, lake x and whatever else can be thrown at it. And if it is broken I hope it's a kid under the bridge somewhere and they eat it.

A small percentage of people are ones that care bout growing world record in private pond most people just want them to spread the sal offspring into public water not a rich guys pond

yes sir - exactly

Stop with all the rich guy poor guy carp. Some of us just want to see if it can be done at all in Texas.

It really steams my broccoli that Cali has produced so many giants bigger than Texas and they aren't even trying. The giant bass outta Cali is just a by-product of them stocking trout for the locals to catch.

Hey I would love to see us break the record on public water. I could care less how this guy spends his $ hell he made it but should not be done by somebody else�s fish

100%. Just big ponds with no competition, pure Florida's and heavily stocked with trout.

Trout and better big bass conditions!

Let�s start stocking trout in the winter months! 😂

There was a 19.25 shocked up out of Alan Henry about 2 years ago. I�d be willing to bet there are at least 2 or 3 swimming around out there that could break the record. 75% of that lake has never seen a lure cause fisherman don�t think they can live deeper than 30�

I would call Squaw a Hybrid Private lake.

While they let the general public in for a price, they also shut it down and don't allow anyone in.

I still don't understand why a Game Warden goes on the lake if it is a private lake.

I have a private lake in my subdivision, but since there are "NO Fishing SIgns" or signs saying it is for Home Owners only, the general public can use it, but the game warden can't issue a ticket for fishing license.

Good points sir.

If you don't already know about the State Boating Access grant, have a look at this:
"The State Boating Access Program was authorized in 1975 by the Texas Legislature. The program provides funds for the purchase, construction, renovation and maintenance of boat ramps, access roads and other related facilities to improve recreational boating access to public waters. Construction for approved projects is supported on a 75 percent (federal), 25 percent (local) basis.

While the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department administers the grants, funding comes from the Federal Aid in Sport Fish Restoration Act, also known as Wallop-Breaux for the original congressional sponsors. The Sport Fish Restoration program is funded by revenues from a portion of federal gasoline taxes generated when recreational boaters gas up their boats and a federal excise tax on items such as fishing rods, reels, creels, lures, flies and artificial baits."

https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/grants/recreation-grants/boating-access

These grants are readily available, but only cover 75% of the cost of the work.

A 2007 TPWD press release stated:
"Hubbard Creek Reservoir Boat Ramp � The West Central Texas Municipal Water District receive a grant of $405,000 to renovate/improve a two-lane boat ramp, access road, parking area, lighting, courtesy docks, and signs. The facility provides public boating access to Hubbard Creek Reservoir." Was this work not done? If not, it was probably because the locality didn't have funds for their share of the costs. One suggestion would be to make sure all the controlling authorities of the lakes you're interested in are aware of the grant and apply for it. And for those drought affected lakes, I expect the grants would also cover extending the boat ramp to account for low water levels.

I believe the majority of bass fisherman could care less about growing huge bass and even less about California,they just want to enjoy the sport,go out and catch fish that's what it's about,It's our tax dollars too,I just want TP&W to take care of all the anglers not just a few.Again JMHO

Yep, you're right. Dr. Schwarz should have just got some of Mike's 2 year old bass from Camelot Bell, (WAY better genetics than anything swimming in public waters in Texas), and then tried to grow a world record based on a different water quality and different base forage (prawns).

That way, when they did it, it would just be a new World Record from private waters and the State of Texas would not have had the opportunity to learn from it or get any of the fingerlings for stocking in public waters.

Perfect idea!

Agreed BKS.

There are a few folks on here that seem to feel like it isn't "fair" to allow a fish from a private lake to be counted as a record. My point is that it is a moot point because nobody has done it yet. I would love to see some land owner raise a 20 pounder so we could all have something to argue about! Until someone does, what is there to squabble over??

It just pizzes me off that Cali has produced multiple 20+ pound fish, the first one being in 1972! My belief is the hot summers and cold winters we have here in Texas will not allow the bass to live long enough to get to 20 pounds. I spoke at length on the phone with Dr. Schwartz and he agreed but he is game to try it anyway.

Wolf Pack at CB may very well have the best shot at growing one over 18 but only time will tell. I just want to see Texas raise a GIANT so we can say it is possible.

Nicely done.

Ok, so Texas does everything in their power to finally breed a fish over 20lbs and then what? The entire world laughs at us for going through such great lengths to do so? If Cali & Japan can do it without trying and we can�t, then maybe it�s just time for natural progression without human intervention. Breed more northern strain that can handle the Texas climate.

Too late! St. Clair�s fish was a part of TPWD�s �science�. Fork was probably the most watched, studied and regulated lakes in the history of TPWD plus let�s not forget the Florida strain bass they raised for stocking it.....but I do get your point. It has become even more scientific with time. With all the time and money spent on attempting trophy bass production it never ceases to amaze me when other bass fishing projects become mismanaged such as Purtice Creek!

Really? Who shocked it up? What happened to fish?

I agree 100% with what WAWI said..... God help me!

WAWI in true form and fashion with greatness has unloaded wisdom through a prophetic word once again

"(WAY better genetics than anything swimming in public waters in Texas)," How do you know? What data proves it?. Most likely, the unlimited supply of forage explains much of the faster growth rates, but they're unlikely to sustain it to get over 18 lbs. Let see what happens.

There was no 19.25 shocked out of Alan Henry according to TPWD.

There's no way a 19 was shocked up. We would have heard about it. Photos would have been taken. That darn "science" that we are fighting so hard against here on this forum would have thrown it in our faces!

Now where's my iphone... and my cholesterol pill.....

Here it is Jackson. It is old news now.

Was it shocked up ? I see quite a few rod and reels in that boat and it doesn't look like a TP&W boat.

At least that fisherman isn't a litterbug. Look at all the cig butts beneath the fish's tail in back of the boat.

That is huge.

Hopefully one of the 3 posters in this thread that know more in detail will explain the genetics of those CB bass.

Thad Rains or Gary Purdy would know. They�re on TFF. There is a pair of brothers who work out there. I think One of them is a warden and the other is a biologist or something. Pretty sure they�re the ones that shocked it up.

That�s wrong Ken, just wrong...!
Only fish that should count are from Caddo-everything else is just man-made.

Uhh fellas.....

There ain't never been NO 19 pounders shocked up anywhere.

That was a random pic I pulled off the inter-web thingy.

Sorry Doc. Couldn't resist.

Definatly not one of the big flatbottomed shock johnboats the TPWD uses for their electroshocking surveys. Sorry

Look two posts above 361V

Ahhh! Got me! You can �Set the hook� now!

Lord have mercy, that is a huge bass no matter where it came from.

shocking most peeps here know nothing about "shocking..."

Lol. Have you ever fished Austin? Doesn�t seem like you really understand the first thing about what happened to that lake. I�ll write this off as a poor troll.

I believe they shocked the lake about 10 years ago back when it was on fire, and they shocked up a huge bass maybe it was 13 lbs and TTU fisherman was with them.

That is what I remember and he had some pics of him releasing it back into the lake, If I remember correctly he also caught 2 SAL at Alan Henry back when it was producing big fish

It's nice to not have to see your posts for 2 weeks.

Shocking how many people think they know �everything about everything�.

17lber caught out of Georgia back in 2015 if recall correctly.

I take it you have a MS in Fisheries and have experience managing the fishery at Lake Austin. Do yourself a favor and call the TPWD office in San Marcos (512-353-0072) and see if they tell you anything different. I challenge you to call and let us know what they said.

Not getting this argument but I would question if TPWD would be completely straight about their assessment of their management of hydrilla, grass carp....or any other topic that has so many �whoops� outcomes.