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Jan 23rd, 2013
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Bag limits with kids #12636797
02/20/18 04:26 AM
02/20/18 04:26 AM
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pavlaugh Offline OP
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A question was raised today when my young kids and I were fishing for rainbow trout. Whose fish is it for purposes of bag limit under the following circumstances: (1) I cast out the bait, (2) I am holding the rod when the hook is set, (3) I hand the pole to my kid, (4) my kid reels in the fish, (5) I remove the hook from the fish, and (6) my kid puts the fish in the basket.

Another angler kindly insisted the fish counted towards my bag limit because I held the pole when the fish was hooked. I disagreed because my kid reeled in the fish.

The allegation of wrongdoing put a damper on the day. I reviewed the Outdoor Manual and the relevant Administrative Code, but couldn't find a clear answer. Does anyone know of some rule I'm missing that says exactly who possesses a fish for purposes of the bag limit? If not, what's you personal opinion on the matter?

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12636903
02/20/18 11:31 AM
02/20/18 11:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 24,351
Frisco, Texas
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burro desagradable
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Frisco, Texas
Trout in Texas are a invasive species

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12636920
02/20/18 12:07 PM
02/20/18 12:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 53,730
Campbell, TX
SkeeterRonnie Offline
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Campbell, TX
comorant fodder

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12636944
02/20/18 12:49 PM
02/20/18 12:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,552
nederland, TX
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the skipper Online content
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nederland, TX
Personal opinion= it's your kids fish.

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: SkeeterRonnie] #12636962
02/20/18 01:05 PM
02/20/18 01:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 24,351
Frisco, Texas
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Originally Posted By: SkeeterRonnie
comorant fodder


roflmao

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12637062
02/20/18 02:14 PM
02/20/18 02:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 22,213
Lewisville
Uncle Zeek Online content
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If the kid is participating, then my view is that the adult is assisting. Children need more assistance than a typical adult.

If your kid was of running around and playing while you were getting the line in the water, I might view it differently, but if he's right there with you so you can hand off the rod, then I would consider that an "assist".


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Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12637959
02/20/18 10:03 PM
02/20/18 10:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
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springtown,tx.
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jbobo Online content
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I agree^^^^. I doubt a GW will write a ticket if an adult is getting kids out teaching them to fish or any other outdoor activity unless the law is written explicitly for kids to follow. Ie: deer hunting etc. Setting the hook is difficult for some young ones to accomplish and a fish reeled in by them is fueling the desire to continue as they grow up.


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Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12637964
02/20/18 10:07 PM
02/20/18 10:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,119
Fort Worth
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Smurfs Offline
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Fort Worth


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Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12638289
02/21/18 01:10 AM
02/21/18 01:10 AM
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bigdiastema Offline
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If it is someone you were fishing with, don't fish with them. If they were just onlooker, let them mind their own business. In my opinion, and that's all it is, its your child's fish. Getting kids involved is important. Sorry your day was affected by some colossal a hole.

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: Uncle Zeek] #12638547
02/21/18 03:32 AM
02/21/18 03:32 AM
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pavlaugh Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Uncle Zeek
If your kid was of running around and playing while you were getting the line in the water, I might view it differently

This might have been the issue. It's not like they were off playing on the playground, but they were definitely running around being rambunctious and loud. I try to control the volume level, but they are after all kids fishing for stocked fish at community fishing ponds. I send them off to collect trash and "worms" (lots of leftover bait scraps that get left behind around the rainbow trout ponds). They stay within audible distance, so I called them over when we had a bite to come reel a fish in.

Originally Posted By: jbobo
I agree^^^^. I doubt a GW will write a ticket if an adult is getting kids out teaching them to fish or any other outdoor activity unless the law is written explicitly for kids to follow. Ie: deer hunting etc. Setting the hook is difficult for some young ones to accomplish and a fish reeled in by them is fueling the desire to continue as they grow up.


If I got that ticket, I'd definitely fight it. smile I'm a lawyer, though obviously not in this area of law. I just can't imagine trying to tell someone else what they're doing is illegal when it's not or at best ambiguous. In my opinion, my kids were definitely acting within the definition of "fishing" = "taking or attempting to take aquatic animal life by any means."

I wasn't so worried about the kids not being able to set the hook. But since most people at these stocked ponds are fishing within casting distance of each other, and my kids have a 50% chance of hitting the nearby anglers while casting instead of getting into the water, I do prefer to cast out for them in these situations.


Originally Posted By: bigdiastema
If it is someone you were fishing with, don't fish with them. If they were just onlooker, let them mind their own business. In my opinion, and that's all it is, its your child's fish. Getting kids involved is important. Sorry your day was affected by some colossal a hole.


Just an onlooker inserting their mind into my (and my kids') business. I think the cherry on top of the situation was that before his comment, but after we had caught three to his zero, I gave him one of the mice tails we were using, which he used for the rest of the day. The gentleman was easily 70+ years old, so I was not about to try tell him that he had no idea what he was talking about. Though I did say that I had not read his interpretation in the manual, and my opinion was that reeling in the fish is what counted.

Yeah, I think what bugged me the most was the suggestion of being "in the wrong" when I think we are generally good fishermen -- leaving the site cleaner than when we left it, trying to help others catch fish if we're getting luckier than they are, and of course following the bag and size limits.

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12638607
02/21/18 04:25 AM
02/21/18 04:25 AM
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Posts: 1,641
Texas
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Jim Ford Offline
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Texas
Because there is not a statute which articulates this situation specifically, it would be a discretionary call by the officer. At citation time, his opinion would be the one that counts. If you get cited, by all means fight it -- in court. He's doing his job and (hopefully) believes he is in the right, and there should be no hard feelings, either at the pond or in the courtroom. I did the same thing with my grandson when he was a kid, although we didn't keep any fish, and I doubt an officer would cite you, unless he had encountered a lot of people trying to get around the limits that way.

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12639396
02/21/18 06:32 PM
02/21/18 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,329
Katy, Texas US
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I think as long as the kid can say, without lying, he caught x amount of fish your ok. Game warden's will pull your kid to the side and ask them. Had this happen to me dove hunting when we both had a limit. I don't think he thought a 11 y/o could bag a limit of doves.

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12639504
02/21/18 07:28 PM
02/21/18 07:28 PM
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Arlington
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Bobby Milam Offline
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I take the grandkids fishing but I explain to them from the beginning that if they are going to fish then that means they sit there and fish. I'll cast it because they have difficulty working a reel but then I hand it to them and it is their responsibility from that point on. I know they get bored and start getting distracted and wanting to play but I make them reel it in and then play. They always come back to it in awhile especially if they see me catch a fish. If you are basically doing everything except for calling them back to reel it in when you catch one, then I can see where it appears that you are actually the one fishing. I don't know if your kids were standing right there with you or if they were in the area playing but I've never taken a kid fishing that didn't want me to give them the rod right after I cast it so that THEY could catch the fish. In fact I bought my 5 year old granddaughter a cheap kids rod and it was having problems so I took it and cast it, a fish bit and I set the hook then handed it to her where she reeled it in all excited. After it was over I congratulated her on the catch and she looked at me and said," Well I really didn't catch it you did. All that I did was reel it in."

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12640073
02/22/18 12:38 AM
02/22/18 12:38 AM
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Grandview, TX
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Grandview, TX
The whole idea of the trout stocking was to get kids involved in the outdoors in general, and fishing in specific. Depending on the age of the kids in question and or their relative ability, you may have to assist them more or less...the less the better, as the idea is to teach them the entire process of fishing, including tying their own hooks. That said, as long as you are assisting the kids to the extent of their ability, you have a pretty solid defense as far as assistance to your kids. Past that, you could have looked guilty of fishing for the kids, to the elder man that made the comment (whether justified based on their ability/age or not). Don’t think the GW will give you any trouble if the kids honestly believe they caught those fish, regardless of you assistance level. But make no mistake, you should be teaching the kids to become independent fisherman, or you are not handling your responsibility...which is the entire point...

Re: Bag limits with kids [Re: pavlaugh] #12642210
02/23/18 01:50 AM
02/23/18 01:50 AM
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Richland-Chambers
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Capt Craig Online content
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Assisting is not a crime. I do it with children on my boat. If the kid is chasing butterflies and picking flowers and you catch their limit, then you have caught more than your limit and may not keep based on their mere presence.


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