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Jan 23rd, 2013
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Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing #12472598
10/20/17 03:42 PM
10/20/17 03:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,280
Plano, TX
U
UJC Offline OP
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UJC  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,280
Plano, TX
Need some help to figure this out.

The Pumpout/Recirc is a 3 way toggle switch. Top is PO, middle Off, and bottom RC. The PO works but when I turn RC on, it blows the fuse. The fuse box is not in an easy to get to place so this is a major pain plus throwing fuses at it isn't going to fix the problem. I've checked the grounding behind the console switch and it looks good. Since the PO works I didn't think this would be an issue anyway. This is not an intermittent problem if this helps to figure it out.

Isn't the PO and RC the same piece of equipment? BTW, the Aerator works fine as does the Bilge. I have a Triton 186 and getting to these pumps takes a skinny contortionist to work on them so I have been reluctant to get down there, not to mention three arms/hands come in handy.

If the RC line is plugged up could this cause the failure?

I'd appreciate any thoughts. Let me know if I need to provide more info.


LIVE PURPLE LOVE GOLD
Geaux Tigers!
Jimmy
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12472815
10/20/17 06:26 PM
10/20/17 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,292
Cisco,tx
scruboak Offline
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Cisco,tx
pump probably has something in it or went bad.With zebra mussels in lakes now very possible.

Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12473245
10/21/17 01:08 AM
10/21/17 01:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,684
Grand Prairie Tx
Curtbass Offline
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Grand Prairie Tx
Back flush with water hose. If it solves problem then all is good. That's part of my routine when I get home & accordingly how much sand gravel regurgitated shad & crawfish parts, I fill livewells up & backwash thru hull fitting with water hose pressure. Flip Po On . Then hit recirculate & go until clear. If a bunch of parts & gunk are in livewell I pull plug & try to run that out drain . Repeat till all lines, pumps are clear & no surprises next tournament. If pump still won't recirc & blows fuses, then its prolly pump. If you have to bilge dive or pay to have it done, for the Love of Lucy, go ahead & replace ALL pumps.


92' ChampioN 201DCR Elite
13' Yamaha250SHO
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12473359
10/21/17 02:44 AM
10/21/17 02:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,909
Garland, TX
2
2015fordnut Offline
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Garland, TX
Not sure what year your 186 is but mine is an 01. Mine has 3 live well pumps and 1 bilge. The pump out and aerator are on the bottom of the livewell each side. The recirc pump is actually located under the battery charger mounting plate at the bottom of the transom. Besides the bilge pump is the easyest to get to. Mine was locked up but never blew the fuse, when I replaced my charger with a different brand I had that plate out and while there had my meter hooked up to the leads to make sure it had power I actually tapped it a few times with a rubber handle screw driver and hit the switch and after it ground up the trash that had it locked it is still is working. If your blowing fuses I would look for a fray in the wiring.




Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12480516
10/27/17 01:55 AM
10/27/17 01:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,280
Plano, TX
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UJC Offline OP
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UJC  Offline OP
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Plano, TX
Well no luck so far. BTW, it is a 2001 186 also. I only see 3 pumps, which includes the bilge. The bilge is way back under the transom under the battery charger mounting plate. I had to replace the bilge several years ago - what a pain. But when I had the mounting plate removed, I don't recall there being another pump but I'll look again.

I flushed out all hoses, replaced the fuse, tested and Pow. The toggle switches run a daisy chain ground. For the recirc/PO toggle I ran a straight ground. Pow. So the toggle to the fuse block seems to be ok. The wiring from 4' or so away looks good too in the bilge area where the PO/Recirc/etc. are located.

I will take a closer look this weekend to see if there is another pump I haven't located. I think you are right F nut, I probably just need to knock on it and loosen whatever is causing it to jam.

Anyway, the livewell is super clean.


LIVE PURPLE LOVE GOLD
Geaux Tigers!
Jimmy
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12480550
10/27/17 02:19 AM
10/27/17 02:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,167
Magnolia, TX
F
Flippin-Out Offline
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Magnolia, TX
How clean the livewell is now is of no concern to the problem. One possible scenario is that something got into the pump-out impeller IN THE PAST, not now.

Systems that use one pump for both recirculation and pump-out have a mechanical valve that must be moved. You're only directing power to one switch contact or another via an electrical switch only, so you have separate recirculation and pump-out pumps. This makes sense considering that your recirculation works, but pump-out doesn't. You can tell which is which by observing where the pump outlet plumbing goes.

Pumps such as we have on livewells encounter several high-probability failures:

1) Something jams the impeller. Pumps stall and often blow a fuse when this happens.
2) The shaft seal fails and water gets to the motor armature, rusting it into a failed/shorted lump.
3) Bearing wear causes armature damage/short-circuits, unlikely for pump-out due to such low run usage.

You are most likely dealing with one of the first two. Your boat is certainly old enough that I would not be surprised to find seal failure.

Last edited by Flippin-Out; 10/27/17 02:20 AM.
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12481444
10/27/17 09:21 PM
10/27/17 09:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,909
Garland, TX
2
2015fordnut Offline
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Garland, TX
Yea look under the Charger Plate the bilge is on the bilge floor and the pump in (fill) is mounted and coming through the transom the pump out is on one side of the divider you can feel the intake screen down where the plug is and the other pump is on the other side in the notch behind the drain. here is a wiring diagram I have found for the 186.





Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12484488
10/30/17 05:22 PM
10/30/17 05:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,410
Rockwall
S
Stump jumper Offline
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Rockwall
I only have fill on my baitwell and it is doing the same. Pump runs, a tickle of water comes out and the circuit breaker pops. Plumbing on the Champ is totally different than my Ranger was. On the Champ the fill and drain have separate hoses whereas on the Ranger there was one hose and a valve. This a could deal because on the bait well I get an occasional shad sucked down the drain. On my Ranger the source of all my problems with junk in the lines was from the drain. I had strainer on the inlet side so I cannot imagine anything getting in. The baitwell and livewell share an inlet that is a brass tee without shutoff valve about a foot in front of the transom. No real easy way to flush since the inlet since over a bunk and the outlets in the livewell are not screw on type. I just bought a new motor. If not the motor then I have a spare. Fortunately mine is easy to get to. I know from experience that the livewell motors are only good for a few years if you run them a lot.


2200 Bay Champ/200 Mercury Optimax
2017 Tundra TSS 4x4 Crewmax 5.7L
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12485313
10/31/17 05:50 AM
10/31/17 05:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,301
Denton Tx.
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spankyttx Online content
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ujc, have you checked the recirculating timer, i would bypass it to check to see if the pump runs without popping the fuse


LI-SI-WI-NWI
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12485320
10/31/17 07:27 AM
10/31/17 07:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,167
Magnolia, TX
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Flippin-Out Offline
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Livewell/baitwell pump motors have an installed "shelf life" even if you don't use them a lot. Here's why: The impeller chamber (wet) is isolated from the motor (dry requirement) by seals on the impeller shaft. These seals harden over time and can shrink/crack and leak. Motor failure is imminent at that point.

Water is often constantly present in a recirculation pump because it's the lowest point in the system that can't be drained. It will eventually get to the motor/bearings.

Fill pump impellers come in contact with water every time the boat is in the water - whether you turn the pump on or not. After seal aging and failure, it's a matter of time for that motor to fail due to corrosion also.

Last edited by Flippin-Out; 10/31/17 07:29 AM.
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12486489
10/31/17 11:52 PM
10/31/17 11:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,280
Plano, TX
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UJC Offline OP
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Plano, TX
2015fordnut - that's the schematic I have. I'm not electrical literate so it is difficult for me to understand it. Thanks.

spankyttx - there is no timer on the recirc. The timer is on the aerator. I have another timer and would like to have it on the recirc but I don't know how to connect it. I haven't found any instructions.

Flippin-Out - it is old and to my knowledge never has been changed. I think you have it pegged; it's either old and taken its toll with wear and tear or something is jammed in there. I don't know how I'm going to get down there to replace it. I'd like to be able to unscrew the top to see if anything gets unjammed and test it. But since the unit is old; I'm not sure if the top is removable like in the Tsunami series.

It is time for the impeller, etc. to be maintained. Maybe I will just leave it to Tommy or John at Rockwall Marine to tend to if the $ are ok.

I appreciate all input guys. I'm all ears if you have more to contribute.


LIVE PURPLE LOVE GOLD
Geaux Tigers!
Jimmy
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12487809
11/01/17 05:49 PM
11/01/17 05:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,410
Rockwall
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Rockwall
When I replaced the original ones in my Ranger I went with the Mayfairs with the replaceable cartridge. So much easier than replacing the whole unit. Getting the hoses off was the main problem I ran in to. When I replace the ones in my Champ I am going to use spade connectors to make future replacement that much easier.


2200 Bay Champ/200 Mercury Optimax
2017 Tundra TSS 4x4 Crewmax 5.7L
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: UJC] #12490030
11/03/17 01:34 AM
11/03/17 01:34 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 261
LakeForkBoatAccessories Offline
Angler
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If you ever get around the Lake Fork area, we'd be happy to get you fixed up.


Light’m Up

Steve Smith
661 -706 -1569
Lake Fork Boat Accessories
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: LakeForkBoatAccessories] #12490371
11/03/17 01:21 PM
11/03/17 01:21 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 11,510
Littlefield Tx & Lake A. H. US...
gary purdy Offline
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Littlefield Tx & Lake A. H. US...
Originally Posted By: LakeForkBoatAccessories
If you ever get around the Lake Fork area, we'd be happy to get you fixed up.
For FREE? That is what we do around here.


The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything. Remember what He has done and remember that He is not done yet!-- GOD IS GOOD
Re: Pumpout/Recirc fuse blowing [Re: Flippin-Out] #12491453
11/04/17 04:27 AM
11/04/17 04:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,684
Grand Prairie Tx
Curtbass Offline
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Grand Prairie Tx
Originally Posted By: Flippin-Out
How clean the livewell is now is of no concern to the problem. One possible scenario is that something got into the pump-out impeller IN THE PAST, not now.

Systems that use one pump for both recirculation and pump-out have a mechanical valve that must be moved. You're only directing power to one switch contact or another via an electrical switch only, so you have separate recirculation and pump-out pumps. This makes sense considering that your recirculation works, but pump-out doesn't. You can tell which is which by observing where the pump outlet plumbing goes.

Pumps such as we have on livewells encounter several high-probability failures:

1) Something jams the impeller. Pumps stall and often blow a fuse when this happens.
2) The shaft seal fails and water gets to the motor armature, rusting it into a failed/shorted lump.
3) Bearing wear causes armature damage/short-circuits, unlikely for pump-out due to such low run usage.

You are most likely dealing with one of the first two. Your boat is certainly old enough that I would not be surprised to find seal failure.


Backwashing suggestion wasn't for livewell cleaning. It was for cleaning debris out of the lines & possibly Free an impeller hung up DUE to debris. Geez


92' ChampioN 201DCR Elite
13' Yamaha250SHO
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