Are we working too hard?

Are we working too hard?

Do we spend too much time pouring over minute details on the finish when perhaps it isn't really necessary?

Are we making lures for fishermen, instead of fish?

What are the things that are important for fish to see in a bait ? Some people believe that only contrast is really what's necessary. Some people believe the colors are necessary, but a lot of those colors disappear as we get below five or 10 feet in depth. And in shallow water, is a bass really going to notice a difference between an ultra realistic bluegill finish and one that is just a basic finish? For fast-moving baits like lipless rattlers, do the fish even have a chance to notice details? Certainly on something like a suspending jerk bait fish would have more time to look the lures over and assess the situation, but fast-moving lures do they even see it? For instance, things like spinner baits are made to mimic baitfish, yet look nothing like fish. How about other fish, like walleye, that have rods and cones in their eyes? Sure, they can see red, but read disappears at depth anyway.

Hmmm. These are things that I go through in my mind. What is important, what isn't? Should we spend the time making ultra realistic finishes? Certainly it's not going to hurt, but is it necessary?

Just trying to spark up a conversation ....

I don't know that it makes much difference to the fish, they are mostly instinctively reacting. With that said, they do show some level of memory or conditioned. KVD Sexy Shad square bills result in a hook in the face, a little time out of water and a splash down. So, maybe something that is a little different will get that reaction strike that KVD bait misses on. I paint them the way I do, because it keeps ME interested.

really no way to tell how much difference the details make. no way to do a control study using two identical lures painted with different levels of detail in the exact same scenario and catch the same fish. that being said, detail is a reflection of the lurist pride he/she takes in their work and their appreciation for realism. when i show somebody a bait i've painted i want their jaw to drop. but "detail" covers a lot of ground. a holographic 2.5 with two or three very light colors is detail to me. likewise a blue gill or sun fish might have 6-8 layers of color to get the look i want and that's also detail. and a ghost bait with almost no color at all is detailed.
you're right on the money with colors fading with depth. most of my fish come from 10' or shallower. admittedly i'm a top water freak and my deep skills are pretty minimal so color for me is very relevant. if i can pitch into the reeds or drag a frog across grass or lillies, or work a crank bait along the grass edge i'm a happy camper.
ok end of my diatribe. keep painting. all of you guys who are new to the forum and/or just starting to paint are a great inspirations. i love to see the new ideas and patterns.

You guys make some excellent points. I do believe that a lot of the things we do for ourselves, and they may not really affect the fish at all.

For instance, I just got finished painting a splatterback crankbait. I did a lot of fancy things to it, like using pearl white paint on the bottom, and then using color shift blue over all of the black so that it looks either black or midnight blue depending on the angle. Then I went back and painted a little bit of the black over the eyes so they actually looks black around the eyeballs. In addition I highlighted the gills, and put a little bit of red on the belly. Personally, I think it looks great !!! BUT....Honestly, I could have just painted it white, done a black splatter on the back, thrown on some eyes, and it probably would have caught just as many fish. So I did all those little things because *I* think it looks cool.

I'm sure there are patterns where details matter. At least I believe that in my heart. I do agree that the most important thing about the details is that it shows the pride that's being put into the making of the lure.

And maybe it will be the difference that makes it 13 pound bass tighten your line !

All good points and questions that you will always have in our lake were the bites are scarce each and every day. When you do have a good day was it because you just happened upon a good area with feeding fish or was it the bait that you were throwing? Could it have been done with the basic bait schemes or was it the excellent paint schemes used?

This is my take on the whole scheme of things. Big Bass did not get to that point by making mistakes. They want a bait that holds as many of the senses that they are looking for on any given lake for the weather condition on that day. Smaller schooling Bass will lessen this talent to a degree; but with a big fish your efforts will sew up the deal.

Here is my testing grounds of over 27 years and what I have experienced. To really know what works and what doesn't you have to be in waters that produce a lot of Bass. Mexico has given me that potential of catching 100 Bass per day with 50 of those over 5 lbs. each day. In less than a half day of fishing I can tell you whether it is a worthy scheme or not. All baits must have the schemes to produce that number. Veer away form that and you will come away with only 70 Bass per day. To me this is a huge difference. I have seen this happen day in and day out with customers trying to throw and produce even with their confidence baits.

Here are some things that work in our shallow water fishing.
- Techniques are just as important as the scheme of things.
- Crank baits with a wide wobble work best.
- Silent running cranks produce more fish. The hooks play a tune they really like.
- The deeper the hook groves become, the more it is worn the better it gets.
- My best cranks and top waters are worn down to the bone under the paint.
- Paint to match the bait fish.
- Size makes a difference and it is not always large.
- Fast moving baits like spinner baits and traps are no exception.
- You cannot pull a bait fast enough to get it away from a Bass that thinks it is real.
- Top water baits that you can make do the Dying Quiver produce best.
- This action is 180 degree turns; basically sitting in one spot.
- The Ghost stripe as a lateral line on all hard baits produce twice as many strikes.
- Spinner bait blades in size, color and combinations are key factors.
- Blades must be put together for water color, different weather conditions, depth you are fishing and size of bait fish.
- Skirts require the same consideration.
- Living Rubber skirting absolutely catches more Bass without the flash.
- Using the right scent on your skirts and plastics will produce 1/3 more fish.
- If I had to pick one skirt color for a spinner bait it would be the 3 stripe pattern of BLUE/Black stripe, Chartreuse/Black stripe and WHITE/Chart. stripe; all in one skirt.
- In plastics Watermelon/Red is the best producer with the tail slightly tipped Chart..
- The Zoom Brush hog and Lizard are the two best produces and it is a must to have the packages scented. Brush Hogs get Crayfish and Lizards get Night Crawler.

Donald - great observations, and lots of interesting points. I would think that a decent amount of it would hold true for other locales...of course different water conditions, temps, forage, etc would factor in. But I find it interesting that you have the best results with worn baits. And I agree, big bass tend to be a bit more wary. Anyway, thank you for weighing in on the conversation...I learned quite a bit !!!

I came running back with another though on the worn baits as opposed to new baits. It takes a long time to get that shine off a bait. What top coat could you use to reduce the shine. Seems it would reduce this time span thing if it began to wear a lot faster. Maybe just some tough paint without the top coat would work better and produce more fish from day one. Then it will get to that best catching point much faster. Glitter and shine are two different things to me. I am a true believer in the glitter as long as it matches the scale pattern of the bait fish. I love the Hologram glitter in the lateral line stripes that I put on my spooks.

I've thought about scotchbriting the gloss finish on baits for a more "satin" look ...take away some shine.

I guess rattle traps in chrome have the worst paint job ever. My best trap almost has none left. Once they get to that certain point though the catching slows way down and again does not start picking up on a new one until half is worn off. I usually take fine sand paper and wet sand those ares off just to get started catching sooner.

I would really like to have a couple of 3/4 oz. painted in the worn scheme:
- Down to the bone about half and half in the areas around the hooks.
- It is important that the hooks wear through the paint fast and start cutting that grove pattern in the plastic.
- The hook area would get no paint using a bone blank with definitely no top coat in that area.
- The pattern is the Hologram Foil Gizzard Shad with the Blue/hologram scale pattern on the back.
- The kill dot is on the tail section as high toward the back as possible.
- It would need a 1/8 inch Wide lateral line stripe in Dark Turquoise with Hologram glitter from the eye to the tip of the tail, just passing under the kill dot to the tip of the tail.

I leave for Mexico the second week of Sept.. This is prime time to test crank baits. I will give a full report with pictures if I can get two of these to take.

Only one way to find out.

Paint one squarebill green pumpkin, one white, one chart, and one black and let a newbie crankbait fisherman like me fish with it. No lines, no dots, no eyes, no under side colors. Nothing, Just solid color.

If they work well then there might be some over thinking going on.

If I have time and can get some rattletrap blanks, I'll see if I can get some done for you and sent your way. Would be interesting to find out what happens with them.

"No pattern" is not the same thing as " time consuming, elaborate pattern".

Makes sense. I just feel if a plain jane color CB catches fish then maybe some people are over thinking it. Kind of like jig skirt colors.

I will be glad to help with the expense or trade out what I have.
Spooks - spinner baits - jigs and Scent. Just let me know what you need and if not send me a bill.

Cool. I'll do a little research and see what I can find out there. Not sure if anyone's making a holographic lipless blank, but I can probably work something up. I'm heading out of town for the weekend, and I'll have a lot of time on the tour bus to do a little research. I will let you know what I find!

I get that.

My line of questioning is more along the lines of do we really need to paint this .....





When this might catch just as many fish ?

Pretty lures catch more fishermen than fish.......but....dang....they sure look good in the box.....

The fun part of bass fishing is figuring out what will get a bite in a constantly changing environment. One line of thought is that a bass will hit anything....even a twig. Another line of thought is that matching the available forage as closely as possible will improve the chance of getting bit. Personally I don't place much value on the "twig" line of thinking. In line with the other idea...you can't get much more realistic that a photo-finish on a lure. From my experiences I do best, day in and day out, when I try to match whatever the bass in an area are feeding on. As a starting point it makes sense to have a selection of lures based on the natural prey in your specific lake and tune that to the forage in an area at a specific time. What bass are feeding on has a lot to do with the seasons. Lots of other variables also come into play as well. I suspect there's a reason you see so many patterns that resemble a bream, but are wildly different in coloration. Same thing with shad patterns...do all shad look the same...if that's true them why so many shad lure variations?? Painting lures has more to do with the reason you paint than with what you paint. If you want to sell your lures.... keep it simple...time is money and complex patterns take time. If you're painting patterns for your own use, or as a hobby, maybe time isn't as important as it might otherwise be and you can pay attention to the small details. What pattern and in how much detail??? What you really need to paint is what you want to paint... but more importantly the way YOU paint it. Really enjoy seeing the artwork posted on this forum.

It might be silly, but confidence plays a huge factor, especially for the more novice fishermen like me. I will invariably catch more fish with a bait I have confidence in. In that sense, sexy lures are bought by fishermen who admire them. I love the feeling of excitement when I'm taking some new baits out to throw. If the foil covered, real 3D, holographic, red hook, jointed, wake bait turns you on, you might throw it with more intent.

Sebile came out with a line of cranks called "Action First". I'm pretty sure they intended them to be exactly what the name said, focused on action, and a simple paint job. If the fish are really attracted to just a few primary (not in the actual 3 color primary sense) colors, why not paint the whole lure in those colors solid? I guess that's why it's still fishing, and why we still love it.

I like the fancy paint jobs.

My wife is funny about crank baits,..and she's a worm dragger from way back.
But she will buy the occasional crank bait based on how pretty it is,..
and then only throw it in places where she knows it won't get lost or hung up,..LOL.

Find actively feeding bass and throw a hard lure that looks like whatever they're feeding on at them. Change lures and throw something that looks nothing like what they're feeding on. The results are pretty conclusive...every time. Size and color have a lot to do with catching. Inactive bass tend to strike more in reaction than to feed. That's when bright or unnatural patterns work best.

To be honest most lures catch more fisherman than fish.
That being said I have had times in clear water when on of the very fine detailed lures outperformed the rest.
Most of the time my standard splatter back or chartreuse will do great. But there are times when an exact replica will kill them.

I say you guys keep doing what your doing I love seeing these awesome paint jobs. You guys are amazing !!

Fishing yesterday....found a school of bass feeding over a hump at 10 foot. Threw LC2.5's at them, all the same style, the only difference was the pattern. Blue/chartreuse holographic shad caught a bass on almost every cast. Switched back and forth between patterns using the same retrieve and bait-casting setup, crappie, bream, barfish, several shad patterns...some got a few hits, some got a few slaps...nothing got even close to the results of the blue/chartreuse holographic shad???? When the crank bite finally slowed a Carolina rigged 6" worm kept the fun going.
My conclusion is that color and pattern DOES make a difference. I fish cranks a lot...tried this process several times over the last few years with the same results almost every time. Just sayin'

Bois, do you have a photo of this blue/chartreuse holographic shad?

Not a chance

ouch. that hurts.

kidding.... seriously, its one of my most productive patterns.... don't want it out yet. I spend lots of time working on patterns that catch bass and I have a few go to patterns that are head and shoulders above anything else...keeping them close to home.

I don't blame you. Once that cat is out of the bag, Academy will have 400 of them on the shelf from various vendors before you have a chance to check in on the TFF.

Found this excerpt from an online article.

Color is critical to crankbait fishing success. One anglers “system” for crankbait color patterns .

1.Orange/Red Craw patterns – I throw the craw patterns in the earliest part of spring, no matter what the water clarity is.

2. Chartreuse/Black Back – My top choice for dirty water all year long. Also a top pick during the spawn when the water is heavily stained. I also use this color in postspawn conditions in off-colored water that is stained or dirty to the point that you can’t see the lure more than 12 to 18 inches below the surface.

3. Bluegill – My favorite color around the spawn, as long as the water is clear to the point you can see the lure at least 18 to 24 inches beneath the surface.

4. Sexy Shad – The best color when the water has a pretty heavy or darker green tint to it, to the point of being stained, and the shad are the predominant forage.

5. Summer Sexy Shad – This is a subtle version of sexy shad that I use largely during the warmest time of the year, as its name suggest, when the water is pretty clear, rather than heavily stained, and shad are present.

6. Green Gizzard Shad – This is a little better choice than plain ol’ Sexy Shad if the water is really, really clear and there are plenty of shad.

The anglers name is Kevin VanDam!!

I absolutely believe that color and pattern can make a difference. My question was more toward the fact of how we often obsess about every minute detail in that pattern....our quest to make something more lifelike, and whether or not that truly makes a difference.


I wonder if you took two of the same lure, finished one in a very basic shad pattern, and photo finished The other.... would bass tend to go after the photo finished one more than the basic pattern ... given that the colors were approximately the same. Just one very basic pattern very realistic pattern.

Not sure about the "obsessing about every minute detail"...to me that's all about the person doing the artwork and why they're doing it. As for the idea that "micro" details makes a difference in a lures ability to fool a fish into biting...I doubt it does.

That being said, I have done what you suggest, use a basic shad pattern lure and a more detailed shad pattern lure side by side. That's how I "tune" a color/pattern that I've had some success with. Its surprising how much difference small detail's can make in a lures ability to provoke a bite. It's also true that small changes to a good pattern can drastically reduce the lures success rate. Makes me appreciate how much field testing "some" factory lures must go through before being released for sale to the public.

the bottom of the bait is what the fish sees most of the time and makes them bite...or not. the top of the bait is what the is what the fisherman sees and makes them bite..

Not sure I agree completely with this since most of my crankbait bites come when bumping or digging the bottom. When fishing topwater baits I'm sure the strike is mostly from below the bait. Just sayin'

a little tongue in cheek there bois!

I caught a fish 1 time

oh yeah like i believe that.

When you put it like that, it all seems so clear. It’s good to see someone standing up and writing...um.. whatever I just read. I have literally no idea what the last few posts are about. What makes it even more confusing is that they were obviously intended to drive home some kind of inescapable conclusion. Like someone had a good long think, then drew a quick truth table, and worked it all out. Thanks for those contributions to this very important scientific discussion. Sometimes, it takes truly insightful comments to really bring it home. This is how progress is made.

WARNING: I cannot be help responsible for the above, as apparently my dog has learned how to type.

To complete my previous thought. A few primary colors would be variations of the 4 or 5 types of baitfish/bugs. I think color is a definite factor, but I don't know if a photo foil painted lure will do better than the same lure with a Norman DD or Bomber Fat Free color pattern.

If the fish are really triggered by the color, rather than tiny details, then it might be better to have as much of those colors boldly painted on the lure. I just want to go fishing now.

This is my line of thinking though. Thanks Bois D'arc.


Color is critical to crankbait fishing success. One anglers “system” for crankbait color patterns .

1.Orange/Red Craw patterns – I throw the craw patterns in the earliest part of spring, no matter what the water clarity is.

2. Chartreuse/Black Back – My top choice for dirty water all year long. Also a top pick during the spawn when the water is heavily stained. I also use this color in postspawn conditions in off-colored water that is stained or dirty to the point that you can’t see the lure more than 12 to 18 inches below the surface.

3. Bluegill – My favorite color around the spawn, as long as the water is clear to the point you can see the lure at least 18 to 24 inches beneath the surface.

4. Sexy Shad – The best color when the water has a pretty heavy or darker green tint to it, to the point of being stained, and the shad are the predominant forage.

5. Summer Sexy Shad – This is a subtle version of sexy shad that I use largely during the warmest time of the year, as its name suggest, when the water is pretty clear, rather than heavily stained, and shad are present.

6. Green Gizzard Shad – This is a little better choice than plain ol’ Sexy Shad if the water is really, really clear and there are plenty of shad.