Trouble at Fork

This past weekend at the Big Bass Splash I witnessed for the first time.. that a fish can grow up to 1/8 inch when relaxed in a holding tank!! I always heard of them shrinking! But not growing!

But the guy in the pics gained some attention when he went to weigh in, according to the weigh master the fish was 23 and half long and the guy said it was 24..

What I learned from this is if it touches 16 or 24 I'm taking a pic and releasing back

Hmm...Interesting

That's a big diff, I am thinking the Game warden was letting this person go, they just did not understand. Who knows I was not there.

Tournament officals has the final say,..you were lucky.

legal fish that he couldn't weigh, makes zero sense to me!

Same issue happened with my buddies kid during the High school tourney. They brought in a over and right off the bat, someone that wont be named that used to work at the host marina, came out and starting freaking out that the fish was stressed out. (the fish was caught 10 minutes prior to bringing it to weigh in) They then put it into the holding tank at the marina. She then says the fish doesn't measure and she called the game warden, when in fact the fish did measure. They looked at the fish and bumped it and it was in fact legal. They then try to weigh it and she threw a fit like a 10 year old, then the tourney director did not allow the fish to be weighed. It is a shame, because those kids lost out on thousands of dollars of scholarship money.

Ill tell you what if it was me or my fish it would of been handled differently, but I just cant believe what has been happening at these tournaments when we are expected to do all we can to remain within the law then get screwed over.

"What would y'all have done in this situation?"

I'd have filed a formal protest with the Tournament Director within 15 minutes, per Sealy's Rules.

1-1/4" is a big difference. Interesting but the td has the final say. Can't see why they wouldn't have measured again and looked into why there was such a big difference in measurements. Wonder what Bob has to say?

Having never fished the Mc D's tournament I cant help but wonder if they have a rule or something that once a fish is bumped and determined legal or illegal it cannot be bumped again. So once an initial decision is made its final?

Their rules say all decisions of the Tournament Director are final. Doesn't say anything about the weighmaster. I'd have filed a complaint on the spot.

Asked it to measure and weigh to document, you can fight it after. If you don't measure and weigh you have nothing to fight, and file a protest.

Put fish back in the livewell and have a discussion as to why.

Something does not sound right here.

sounds like 1.) official measure person needs to learn how to measure a fish if he was showing 23.50" and TPWD was showing 3/4" longer 2.) fish was 24.25" per TPWD, so legal fish....should have been included in the tournament (only after you filed a formal protest to let them review facts)

-fish will shrink and sometimes they relax, but Ive never seen that much difference from a little "livewell time"
-fish will also measure differently on each side depending on girth of the fish

tough deal man...sorry to hear it

This ^^^ but something doesn't sound right about this. I really didn't know a fish could shrink or grow a 1.5" from stress. I have always heard a 1/4" is the usual number you hear about fish and measurements in tournaments. sorry to hear about this tho, I am sure it is disappointing.

Mr Bob Sealy stated that you can only go through the weigh in line once to weigh a fish, but the guy was heard saying it's not in the rules!

I read some of the Facebook comment and people are saying protest the judgment of the rules.. but it clearly states that The Tournament director has the final say so

Gotta be more carful when slot rules apply!

The difference between the weighmaster and GW was 3/4", not 1 1/4". Still a very large discrepancy.

It was also several people talking about they heard the slot limit on fork may change! But I highly doubt that it will! Either way I'm still gonna attending this amazing tournament and maybe fish the ones on Toledo bend and Sam Rayburn where the slot limit is not applied

According to the post in the image, the weighmaster said it was 23.5, not 23...

Officials decision are final in all matters. If indeed the same measuring board was used and game wardens said it was "OK", it is too late to re-present said fish, the decision had already been made!

It sucks that the angler feels they got the short end of the fish, but you have to play by their rules if you want to play the game!

Speaking from experience. The GW tells you to go get your board if your fish gets bumped by the weighmaster. If/When the angler did go retrieve his board was it a Check it Stick?(official board) - Was the anglers board slightly bent? It sucks, but at least he didn't get a $250.00 ticket out of the deal. Give more detail.

I woulda smacked the TD's............................



















































wife, right on the lips!

Yes it was 23 and half.. I fixed it

Sounds like the Weigh Master did not pinch the tail and the Game Warden did. That would make up the difference. IMO

Not everyone knows how to measure a fish.

Had something like this happen at grapevine.... costed me 500 that night....

Game warden needs to be doing something better with his time than sitting there waiting to write a ticket on a fish that's going to be released anyway and is a smidge over or under the line. Tournament can measure the fish.

easy to win lawsuit- get a good attorney you can easily win plus all the character defamation and it can on & on - Do it for the contestants

Get rid of the slot.

you are correct Fouz, sorry I misead the original post to say 23"
post corrected

Not the first time he's had issues in a BB tourney. Good kid but seems to be snakebit at these deals.

Disagree. With all the trimmed tails and other attempts to cheat in these events, the Game Warden needs to be right there keeping the playing field level for everyone.

Someone in our group caught a fish that had a trimmed tail, still bloody. Measured just under 16". They threw it back because you could clearly see it was a straight cut tail. It sux, but was the right thing to do.

GW was a nice guy. He did his job to wave off the ticket. He worked the fish to your advantage.

The weigh-master has a job to measure everyone's fish the same. With that many people in line it is doubtful that the weigh-master will work a fish, from one side then the other, pinching the tail and etc.. We have to accept his decision as final.

A problem arises when the line is short and a questionable fish comes to the line. The question is did he work anyone's fish for full length potential and not yours? Even if he did; two people will measure and come up with a different length. What say the weigh-master; did you do some and not all?

Many fish are questionable, even small ones and in my opinion it is too many to deal with in the weigh-in line if you are going to work the fish to it's potential.
- Put every fish on the board on the same side.
- Run hand down the fish to flatten and do not pinch the tail.
- Move the tail from left and right so the point of the tail gives the length.

I can say this because a fish that I brought thru was measured by "wiping the tail" instead of pinching and swiping. I did not say anything, but you certainly could get a 3/4" discrepency by simply wiping the tail staraight versus pinching the tail.

This. As long as everybody had the same measuring process then all is fair. We have all been in tournaments that were obviously weighing heavy and obviously weighing light, but as long as it is not adjusted mid tourney then it doesn't matter.

Huummmm, interesting, does he fish on your team coach?

On the couple of fish I weighed in, they would "wipe" it down flat, then pinch the tail and swipe.

It sounds like they did not measure every fish the same.

I don't fish a lot of tournaments but I can honestly say I would have gone to weigh in completely unprepared in this exact situation.

There's a little more to this story, nonetheless, I hate the kid didn't get to win $1500 with his fish.

He claims he got the fish out of his live well, and it stayed in his bag for 15 minutes. I've never personally had to stand in their line for 15 minutes, but that's what he said. When the fish got to the board, it was short. The fish was put in a tank for some time then measured by the game warden where it measured over 24". It obviously had relaxed once it was put in the tank. I'm not sure what tank they are referring to, but it was put somewhere in a less stressful environment.

Sealy has always stood by his rules. They don't allow a fish to be measured or weighed more than once. If he did, it would open up a huge can of worms. You gotta realize, once the weigh master puts his hands on the fish, it then becomes property of the tournament director. The fish couldn't be released back to the angler nor could it be put somewhere "to be measured later". There are a lot of logistics in a tournament to keep it fair for everyone that people don't consider. This is obviously one of them.

If I was standing there watching them measure my fish knowing it measures, And I noticed it was NOT measuring the correct length because of improper way of measuring, then I would let it be known right then and there it was not the correct way. I just could not stand there not saying a word while witnessing it being done incorrect.

Yeah, that'd be awesome. People like you disgust me. Rather than deal with it man to man, you wanna find a 2 bit attorney and sue them. And defamation? What the hell did Sealy do hurt this kid's character. No one would even know about it if the kid hadn't put it all over social media. Sounds to me like he defamed himself.

And oh yeah, "do it for the contestants" you say. Another genius statement. Guess what, the contestants are glad to have the opportunity to fish for the kind of money Sealy Outdoors offers. Sue 'em. Put 'em outta business. That's a great idea.

That's too bad. It's not the first time I have heard complaints about the Sealy tournament and how inconsistent they can be at measuring a fish. One might pinch the tail another might not. One might turn the fish over and measure another might refuse. One says if it touches the line it is good another says it has to be over. The game wardens from what I have seen will measure and if short will flip it. If it still is short they'll tell you to go get your stick and they'll measure with yours.

You'd think that they'd atleast be consistent on the measuring since that and weighing are the 2 primary jobs during the tournament but unfortunately they aren't. Sometimes you get one that is a lot like a Walmart checker. They seem to be unhappy with their job and don't really care then you have the rest that are great.

however, that is the incorrect way to measure a fish. These tourneys need to follow the TPWD directions for measuring a fish. Period. The law is inforced by TPWD, so the TPWD standards should be followed.

If I was driving 20 mph in a school zone and the crosswalk guard said I was speeding I'd sure hope a police officer was present to accurately measure my speed.

And not have an unofficial person, however "official" they might think they are, being the be-all end-all of wether I was within the law.

This is my opinion. And that's all these comments are worth.

I love posts talking negatively about something that have the words "I heard" in them.

Tough call. It's hard to pass judgement on either side without being there.

Could be that he smashed the fish against the front of the board, happened to me one time but it was not a money fish, So I took a chance on a line burner and I got disqualified. That fish measured correctly if the mouth touched the front of the board, but not when you apply pressure and pushed the fish against the front of the board. It happens.

Lol...well I was there and know the story. But to keep it short: 1. He probably was there for 15mins. But that was his decision because he wanted to wait for the next hour. Once they clear out and reset for next hour it's about 7mins. 2. The weigh master has weighed 1000's of fish, it's the same guy and he has integrity. He is held to a standard and legality also with the game warden. 3. Once the fish is presented to the weigh master it becomes property of the tournament, that's why you can weigh in more than one over in a day. 4. The game wardens have a tank off to the side with their board, the fish is placed there until you retrieve your board if you choose to and the remeasure is done. That's why folks get warnings vs. tickets everytime. Working these tournaments for years I hate to see good folks get dragged through the mud with only one side of the story. It was just unfortunate for the young man, but he should have been a little smarter in a tournament on a slot lake or just ask the question and get clarity.

So, it was measured by the touney official as 23" then the warden measured it minutes after and it was well over? I'm just trying to clarify

It was 23+ and when game warden measured it was legal but not way over the line as to be a no brainer. The fish relaxed in the tank. Just like folks know tricks to make a 16" fish shrink! The weigh master tries his best, it's not his money. Payout is the same regardless, i say this because people refer to him as a crook or cheat.

What he said!

Gotta go with the tourney official, the fish was no good at weigh in, very close but no dice. Helps keep the integrity of the tourney not to let a fish get reweighed. They do change with different situations! I hope they never remove the slot off fork, that fishery will be toast within a few years the way the people beat up that lake.

The bbs is the worst run tournament weight in I've ever witnessed.

And what tournament weigh-ins are you comparing it against? Big Bass events? Team Events? Club-Level Events? Professional Events?

The lines to sign up are long, and take too long. But once the tournament starts and you bring a fish to weigh in it is smooth, just like any other Big Bass Event. I have fished multiple events, fished Big Bass events with Champs, and they are all comparable.

this was my first thought, since i watched a game warden do it several times in a TBBU tournament at fork in the early nineties. he was clearly distorting the fish and if you spoke up while getting your ticket he threatened you with an arrest.

Wouldn't bother me if the whole thing disappeared....

Please give reasons why you say this.

What I would have done and as others have stated. Protest in writing within the allotted time and put the fish back in the livewell.

The way I approach these BB tournaments on Fork are... do everything you can do to make the fish go over 16 inches. If it goes over, release the fish. Do everything you can do to make the fish go under 24, if it goes under release the fish.

In my experiences people measure fish different, If you have I line burner and feel that its a over/under be prepared to be turned away or go to the stage. I rolled the dice once, the measurer looked at me and said, "man that's close, Good job!" I honestly knew it was an under but I also knew it was close enough I could have gotten a ticket.

"Possession of a slot bass" it said on that little blue paper that I received during the legancy tournament on fork back in May!!! Was new to fishing these BB tournaments and didn't even think about what the official measurement board was so I loaded up my Prorule and went after the big one and at 2:40 pm haven't even had a bite all day there she is came out from under the boat and swallowed my swimbait like it was nothing it all happened so close I didn't even have to reel just flip her in the boat I knew she was 8-9 lbs then I measured her on my Prorule and she was 24 1/4 on bottom and 24 on top me and my buddy both agreed she was a legal fish by this time it's like 2:45 and I'm back in the sticks and weigh in deadline was at 3:00 I make it at 2:59 with no overs being weighed for that hour so the weigh master takes my fish places it on a CHECK-IT and gets 24 on bottom and gets 23 3/4 on top so I'm still thinking I'm ok but then he waves the game warden to come and shakes his head to the stage GW looks at me and says can I see your DL!! I asked why and he stated it needs to touch on both fins so I lost my 700.00 prize money and gained a 250.00 fine

Both fins?

[censored] if it touches any fin it is a good fish this is simply why a lot of people refuse to fish slot lakes someone will always get screwed....

Top and bottom tail fins it what they said my citation was for 23 3/4" I have never heard of this I thought if it touched 24" at any point it's legal. I'm not going to stop fishing these tournaments I just fished the Sealy and had lots of fun but anytime I bring a over to the scales or if I get the opportunity I should say it will be 25" minimum measurement on my boat before headed to weigh in not taking any chances on what might be the new rule for the day or event!

Florida give you a slip for every tournament including big bass events. it allows you to carry your 5 best fish. All Florida lakes, excluding fish management areas, are 5 fish with 1 being over 16" unless your fishing a tourney and have your slip. The tourneys here are great because you get your slip and go out and catch 5 giants and bring them in legally. Why has lake fork NOT done the same thing.

Maybe the TD was buddies with the guy in first place that hour?

Sounds suspicious for sure. Only other possibility is the fish really was a slot and the GW was letting the guy off to avoid writing him a ticket.

I agree with others that I would have protested on the spot.

Fork, lol

What's the difference in Pro Rule and Check It Stick? I mean an inch is an inch... at least that's what the ol lady says... lol

Nothing.

Everyone says the sticks measure differently. I personally, use a checkit. I have put my checkit side by side with every measuring board I've ever had a chance to hold and they are all exactly the same. The width of a checkit simply makes it easier to board a fish and swipe the tail.

I feel badly for the young man that had the fish. I have personally witnessed a 16" fish growing length in my livewell.

The fish grew approximately 1/4" over the period of several hours. I measured the fish when it was caught, two hours later and it was a hair under 16 inches. Had a nice limit in the first hour of the event, so we thought. At 2:30 pm as we were bagging the fish for weigh in I told my partner, just to be safe let's measure the fish a third time. It had grown to a hair over 16. We wound up going to weigh in with four.

Three quarters of an inch? I ain't buying it.

No way it grew that much. I assume the time lapse was pretty quick. This sounds like a fish measuring issue. Maybe the warden rubbed it lol. Anytime you enter east Texas you basically take your life in your own hands.basically a 3rd world country.

I had no idea that this could happen. With all of the money at stake in these tournaments, being able to even catch an over at Fork is a real dream of mine. To have a 24 1/2" fish turn out to be an under at the scales would be devastating. Plus the fact that your honesty is now in question.
I would be mad as Heck.
Maybe the Fork slot idea does not work in tournament fishing because if this happened even once to me, I would never fish another one.
I caught a 23 1/2 at Fork during the Skeeter tourny and was "sky high"until I measured it.

I guess, I'm just saying that if fish do stress and shrink up in the live well, how can a fair tournament even be held, especially for these big slot fish.

Seems to me that if this happens again, it will have to be addressed.

This $ucks big time especially since a kid was involved in the whole deal. The reality is on these Fork tourneys, which I love fishing, is each organization can have their own method for measuring the fish. TPWD suggest for bass that you pinch the tail to try to achieve the overall greatest length. You can find there instructions here.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/fishing/images/how-to-measure-fish-fin-compressed

I have fished Mega Bass, Legends and many 5 fish limits tourneys on Fork and every one I've ever fished did the same thing....they compressed the tail and swiped it trying to achieve the longest measurement which is line with what the state suggests. I agree with most on here there is no way a fish can be stressed or relaxed enough to deliver a measure that is nearly an inch different.

It also doesn't sound like foul play...just sounds like the tourney has a policy and they have to stick to it regardless of how it unfolds because like others have said, if they allow the same fish to be measured more than once it opens a huge can of worms. I would hope at a minimum the director would offer the kid a free entry for next year's event if indeed this is how it all played out.

lol please spread this around

When you enter the tournament you kind of have a contract with the tournament organization and i think in turn for following all the rules of the tournament, you can reasonably expect an accurate measurement of your fish in return. If a state law enforcement officer gets a way different measurement, i think that would be pretty reasonable grounds for a second look at the very least.

I am with this guy. Please let everyone know how bad East Texas is, and how dangerous, especially on the lakes. There is no reason for anyone to ever go East of 45 unless you are looking for meth or trying to dispose of something. I wish I could get out

clearly someone didn't measure correctly. 3/4 of in inch isn't realistic for a fish to shrink or grow. Im not sure who measured wrong but someone did.

I would think if gw said it was legal then he should of got to weigh it in. Don't see fish growing from one board to the next that quick.Why don't fork go back to the 21" limit and do away with the slot . IMO the lake was way better then.

Since when did Fork have a 21" limit and no slot?

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/lake_survey/pwd_rp_t3200_1293_2006.pdf

From the link...

Harvest regulation history: Sport fishes in Lake Fork Reservoir are managed with statewide regulations
with the exception of largemouth bass and crappie (Table 2). From 1980 to 1985, largemouth bass were
managed with a 14-inch minimum length limit, 5 fish daily bag limit. A 14 to 18-inch slot length limit, 5 fish
daily bag limit was implemented in September 1985 to improve the population size structure. In
September 1993, the slot limit was modified to a 14 to 21-inch slot length limit, 3 fish daily bag limit, with
one fish over 21 inches. In September 1995 the bag limit was relaxed to 5, to make largemouth bass bag
limits consistent across the state. In September 1998 the slot length limit was increased to a 16 to 22-inch
slot, 5 fish daily bag with 1 fish over 22. This encouraged harvest of fish under the slot and provided
heavier fish for tournament weigh-ins. Over the next 2 years the upper end of the slot increased by 1 inch
each year until in September 2000, the limit became the current 16 to 24-inch slot, 5 fish daily bag with 1
fish over 24.

TPWD has TONS of research to demonstrate why Fork needs a slot and why the lake has benefited from the slot.

^^^ This ^^^

Well, I have multiple degrees and I am an elder with the First Episcatorian Church of Alba, Texas and none of this makes any sense. I've done my own research, it boils down this. A wise old electrician once told me, if you don't like the rules, don't play.

I dint mean no slot I just meant drop back to 21 and do away with slot should of worded it different my bad. I do like fishing fork it's a awesome lake.

This happens every year, 'slot length limit' is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of while tournament fishing.
There's no way that any harvesting is going on during these tournaments. Nobody is thinning out the unders... duh.
They are all released so what's the point of a slot. Why not in this controlled environment, fish for biggest fish, period.
Eliminates all the problems...bring what you catch to the scales, Biggest wins,...what a concept. Release them all, have fun.

I've read only about the first five replies to this post, but as a general rule I think the person measuring the fish should make every effort to get the fish to measure.
Turn it over, angle it etc unless the rules specify a particular way to measure the fish.

Sounds real fishy too me

Seems to me that if the tournament director has requested that the game wardens be present, and the fish that was ruled an under after weigh in, is re-weighed by the GW and pronounced 1/4" over the slot, we have a bigger problem. What is the law "enforcement " officer even doing there if his decision is discounted.?
There seems to be a real problem with this, if money is at stake.
I spoke with another guy I know about this and he said he had also experienced the fish shrinking.
I would still be pi****, if it happened to me. Remember, its not you against the tournament dir, its you and the game warden!

There's only two ways I could see a 3/4 inch difference as even possible.

1. The weigh master distorted the fish by mashing his face on the bump board.

2. The weigh master failed to pinch the tail.

The TPWD method of pinching the tail is not an option or a suggestion. It is THE proper way to measure a fish.
Suppose you caught a fish and using your "option" to measure it was 15 and 7/8". Game Warden checks using the proper method, pinches the tail, and you are now in possession of an ILLEGAL 16 and 1/4" fish.
Tournament officials can not "choose" how to measure as choosing wrong would be allowing illegal fish to be taken. Either on the high end or low end of the slot.

WTA beat me to it.

3/4 is alot of difference. I have seen a measuring stick be bend. Could that have happened? I had my own bad experience at SBB event. I measured it a little under 16 and when I got in it just touched ( I measured it again before I got out of the boat before weigh on). It seemed the weigh master tried everything he could to get it to touch. I had the walk of shame but the GW was great and did not give me a ticket. Now if it's close I measure it with 2 different measuring boards and the will ask a different boat to measure it just to make sure.

I heard that.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is straight off the TPWD website. If this is NOT how the measuring guru is doing it then I would think he is screwing more than one guy or gal that are right on the line. Either way, someone measured wrong

The TD doesn't ask the GWs to be there. They are at EVERY big money tournament on Fork due to two factors, the slot limit and repeated attempts to cheat in Big Bass events at that lake over the years. The GW isn't there to measure fish and call tiebreakers. That's the TD's responsibility and his decisions are final unless you appeal in writing within 15 minutes. GW is there to enforce the law and keep a level playing field for everyone in the event.

Confusion on length aside, shame on the angler for not understanding the rules and remedies, BEFORE this happened.

I understand.
I didn't even know until this post that these bass can reduce in length while in the live well.
All I know is, I hope it never happens to me!
Good luck guys

Just my opinion, but if the TD referred the kid to the warden, and the warden said it was a legal fish he should have been able to weigh it. I know we all hate this but "what if" a the TD said a fish was good and weighed it and then a warden measured it said it was in the slot? Would the TD's decision still stand because "he" said it was a legal fish?

The Warden would have no reason to measure a fish deemed good by the TD. He only measures and inspects fish referred to him by the TD. I know it sux, but that's the way the rules are set up. If you don't like it, either get the rules changed or don't fish the event.

The moment the GW said the fish was a legal over, the angler should have been writing his protest. Only then could the fish have possibly counted, but only at the TD's discretion. And that would open a huge can of worms for the Wardens and the TDs for future occurrences.

Seems I read earlier that this same angler had been involved in a similar situation at another BB event. If that's the case, then double shame on him for not learning the first time.

I think this is a bad situation either way and 3/4" just seams odd. I guess sometimes we just don't always read all of the rules in time. LOL

Look at his photo on page 1. Not old but not a kid.

I can say myself, it happens. Ive fished a lot of tourneys on that lake and had it happen to me in the Legends tournament this year. Had about a 2.6 under that was 15 3/4 on my pro rule. Took it in and it was 16 1/4 on their check it stick. So Don DQ'd me for the day and Red grabbed me. He says "Sinkey, you know better." Told him the story and he told me to get my board. And sure enough, under on mine, but not even close on theirs. So he only gave me a warning, but couldn't fish again til the next day. Bottom line is, its the TD's decision. But I know better than to use a different board than the tourney. Lessons always learned.

They never measure like this. They swipe both directions.

That's a great point... always critical on slot lakes to make sure you are using the official board the tournament director will be using to bump your fish. There is a variance from brand to brand. Last week at the Worth workingman we put a golden rule, check it stick, and pro rule side by side. The Pro Rule and Check it stick were pretty much the same, just a different line width. The Golden Rule was a little more than 1/8" off from the others. The Game Wardens use a check it stick and most tournament trails use Pro Rule.. I always have both in my boat.

Then every borderline under fish they allow, they are breaking the law.

Well.... game warden swiped the tail too!

Then Media, JC outdoors, Bass Champs, Sealy, and the Game Wardens are breaking the law because they all swipe the tail. Every tournament I've ever fished on Fork was done this way. I think there is more misinformation about how to measure than how to identify a spotted bass. Mabey we need to get a Game Warden on a youtube video showing how to properly measure a fish. I'm certain folks would still say he's doing it wrong. LOL.

I have all 3 in my boat, but, I can't remember the last time I had to use the Golden Rule.. LOL...
I used to fish a lot of competition back in the day, one thing I was always aware of, was how the fish handler measured fish. I honestly would watch them, and try to always duplicate their technique on the stick.. Especially in a trail event where you generally have the same handler every event. All this sounds real sketchy from the start, chalk it up to a learning experiance young man and move on..

Then Media, JC outdoors, Bass Champs, Sealy, and the Game Wardens are breaking the law because they all swipe the tail. Every tournament I've ever fished on Fork was done this way. I think there is more misinformation about how to measure than how to identify a spotted bass. Mabey we need to get a Game Warden on a youtube video showing how to properly measure a fish. I'm certain folks would still say he's doing it wrong. LOL. [/quote]

So who makes the rules? All those guys or TPWD? I'm not making this stuff up. That's how those who set our game rules say to measure a fish.
It doesn't matter if you've been doing something for 40 minutes or 40 years, Wrong is wrong. It's not my call it's TPWD. No one else.

Sealy pays the OT to have game wardens on site for this event. They are also told to write everyone that comes their way no warnings.

Probably chopping up money at stump now lol

So who makes the rules? All those guys or TPWD? I'm not making this stuff up. That's how those who set our game rules say to measure a fish.
It doesn't matter if you've been doing something for 40 minutes or 40 years, Wrong is wrong. It's not my call it's TPWD. No one else. [/quote]


Wrong. Tournaments set their rules. I've fished tourneys on Fork where the rules said the fish must be UNDER 16 and OVER 24. Not touch 16 and touch 24. They also had a 12" minimum. Their game, their rules.

I bet my next paycheck you are wrong in both statements above.

And who is "OT"?

I would have to agree with you PowPow.

I think he means the Overtime

I'm sure they pay them either as a part time job or OT but either way they would have no say in whether they wrote tickets or not.

Well this came from the GW while he was writing me a ticket for my screw-up during the 1st day 3 years ago. I can also tell you per the JP that I wasn't the only one that had been to see her that week.

I'll take that in large bills please

Wrong. Tournaments set their rules. I've fished tourneys on Fork where the rules said the fish must be UNDER 16 and OVER 24. Not touch 16 and touch 24. They also had a 12" minimum. Their game, their rules. [/quote]

Thats fine if the tournament rules are stricter than state law. They CAN NOT choose to measure a fish in a way that breaks the law.

(By the way, could somebody fix these dang quotes?)

Yea, I know. I was always taught to swipe the tail also. Actually I've always been told that if you can make it touch the line, however you do it, it's legal. That was really why I put it up, I was doing it wrong also

1+ there's no way it happened.

The whole key to it is to read number 2 carefully. "to obtain the maximum overall length"

Unfortunately any fish that's a line burner can be made to go under or over by a inconsistent way of measuring. If they push the lower jaw into board to hard it can easily measure short or if they pull slightly and put a little downward pressure near the tail it can be made to touch or go over. If you have two different people measure the same fish ,alot of the time it will measure different.

So what is the point of the OP's post?

To trash Sealy Outdoors?

To "strong arm" them into paying him through social media pressure?

To just complain?



The truth is if he had a grievance then he could have filed it in writing, in the allotted time as stated in the rules of the tournament.

Lesson learned I suppose...

I like when he said it cost him $1,500 for the hour and "who knows what else." I guess he figured the sponsor endorsements and retainers were going to come rolling in?

I just think it's funny that

a.) it seems to be common knowledge from those that appear to tournament fish regularly on here that different boards pro rule, golden rule, whatever "all have their variances"

so therefore,
b.) how on earth did we make it to 2017 and companies cannot produce a ruler within a 1/4" of a worldwide accepted standard measurement.

I work at a bank, so at this bank $100 gets you 100.05, at that bank 100 at another bank 99.75, and apparently in fishing that's accepted as 'normal' variance that can get you a ticket, fined, win or lose big $ on?

I guess he thought the first place hourly was 1500 and if his fish was big enough maybe a truck and or boat. That did look like a big fish and maybe he didn't weight to know for sure what it weight.

Anyway maybe he learned to appeal in the future and this may have been a non issue.

Not even close, you are taking a highly regulated industry that is backed by a governmental entity and comparing it to consumer products...

Variances are to be expected when there is no department of weights and measures to ensure the bend of the board is 90 degrees at exactly position zero in a scale of 1/1000 of an inch...

Just not going to happen. That's why you can get "warnings" and "OK" fish when a game warden reviews it. What can the angler do? Do what Bob himself recommended last year (I wasn't there this year to hear if he repeated), bring your board and mark with tape or otherwise.

I get the difference in industry, I just don't know how boards get out the door that are just different lengths with the same numbers on them. Not the fish shrinking or anything, just 2 boards, that both say 16, and they aren't both 16. Are manufacturing tolerances that lax? Grateful for the warning instead of auto ticketing but man, you still lose or win money based on those decisions. We put people on the moon but can't make 2 rulers 16" long it seems.

Take this from someone who has never tournament fished, reading 9 pages of a thread, and thinking good grief it shouldn't be that hard.

You sir, are dead wrong.

Thanks, Deputy. I'm not going to call medic a liar, but if what he stated were true, I'd be even more shocked that a GW would divulge that information to anyone, especially a stranger at a bass tournament. I know a bunch of GWs and they're some of the more tight-lipped LEOs I know.

A game warden is not going to offer any other information than a number for you to contact! When I received my citation he wouldn't even tell me how much the fine would be!!

Yeah, I just jumped on here and made some stuff up.

I just stated what was told to me. This Warden and myself have had a discussion about that day since. He remembers it well. I will not give his name cause the long and short is it doesn't matter one way or the other. It's nice to know some folks know everything tho.

Childish much?

Ok, I'll accept your story at face value. Not typical for any of the GWs I know, though.

It's the internet, everybody knows everything. Bonjour

maybe the Game Warden should have the final Official Say after all he is the one who will enforce the law and be as fair to everyone than anyone else, he probably is the most qualified to determine whether a fish is legal or not.. this way there would be no complaints.

Id hate to bet my life on that. Also, anyone can measure a fish, though evidently not accurately.

Im going to share my Mcdonalds weigh in story. I had a bass that was just under 16 on one side and just over if you laid him on the other side. There was a debate between my fishing buddies whether or not I should risk it at the weigh in. One of my friends said i would weigh it in and take my chances. I said I dont have the money to pay the fine ( I did) but didnt want to pay it. SO we made a deal if I get sent to GW he agreed to pay the fine. If I win any money I would split it with him. The weigh master laid it down and immediately looked up at me like this fish is close. He then repositioned the fish and measured it again and handed it back, said go up on stage. I gave my friend $225 that day.

It was good on their board on both sides??

Why would you want to post on here that you have no integrity and knowingly broke the law to win $250?

He didn't, he described a typical incident where a fish can be legal/illegal dependent on how it's measured.

As far as the overall problem, wouldn't it solve the whole problem if the wardens measured the fish first and the Sealy people went by that? P_102

What is the point of a slot?

Increases the population of fish in the lake that are in their prime reproductive/breeding years.

If you catch a fish at Fork that goes over on one side and put him in the livewell, you've broken the law. Plain and simple. And knowing that, I wouldn't be able to pass the polygraph. To me it wouldn't matter if the weigh master said it was good or not.

I don't see a lack of integrity at all. It was close enough that he was concerned, yet the fish turned out to be legal... With the stories about fish that measure in the boat but don't measure at the tank and the variations in boards, I can understand his reluctance to submit a squeaker. Caution does not equal lack of integrity sir.

The statement was that it measures just under 16" on one side but just over 16" on the other. If you measure that fish and see it go over 16 and choose to keep it then you have kept a slot fish and it is illegal. That is not a squeaker. We aren't talking that he measured and it was good but they measured the other side and he was unaware that it was longer. Yes he got one by the weigh master and imo took money that belonged to someone who got knocked out of the hour weigh in. I don't read anything in it about caution other than caution on paying the fine if he got caught. That sir is all about integrity

Several TDs in the past have stated "If it's good on one side, it's good". They have stated this for both overs and unders. They use that line of thinking to put it in the angler's favor for CLOSE fish. As to whether you could use that line of thinking if a warden were measuring is beside the point. There is no integrity issue here, he presented a fish that he felt may or may not be "good", depending on the conditions at the time. It was a coin flip, he could've gotten paid or DQ'ed, and he took the risk.

so, should these tournaments be more specific in their tournament rules:

The fish will be measured with its head pointed to the left side of the WP, with the bottom of the fish pointed towards the WP, and the WP will pinch the tail with his/her right hand and swipe back and forth to achieve the longest possible length.

or..

The fish will be measured every way possible (both sides, upside down, right side up) and the longest observed length through any one method will be deemed to be the length of the fish for tournament purposes.


I know I'm scared to death to bring in a fish that is close.

Just for discussion, does an over have to be over on both sides or is being over on one side sufficient? If yes, wouldn't being under on one side be sufficient as well?

He did not break the law....If he did he would have not gotten any money and the GW would have made him walk the walk of shame. On his stick one side measure good and one side long. On their stick it did not go over.

He never said they measured both sides. Of course he didn't get a ticket if it measured good on the side that they measured. If he measured it and one side was long and he placed it in his livewell then he most definitely broke the law.

TDs don't make or interpretate the law. They can only make their rules more stringent than the law. If I am 6' tall and I have one leg amputated 3' shorter, am I now 6'or 5'9"? I know it isn't exactly the same thing but you should see my point. If a fish is measured on either side and must be below a certain length and on one side here is over, then it is not a legal fish no more than trimming the tail on one.

I think if it measures short on one side it's legal. Along the lines of "tie goes to the runner". I also believe that if a game warden saw it was under on one side on your measuring board, it would be OK.

Read the TPWD deal " to obtain maximum length". Either side, either way, the MAXIMUM length is THE length to go by. Doesn't matter which side or how you hold your mouth. That is how everybody should measure and what everybody should go by. The guy took a chance with one he knew was over on his board. He won that time. I don't see anything wrong with that. He knew the consequences if he was wrong and that's part of the game isn't it, get as close as you can without going over. Sounds like he did that. Granted, in reality the fish WAS a slot fish on his scale doesn't mean it was on anybody else's. If that's the one thing everybody should take away from this thread is that basically no 2 sticks measure the same, as stupid as that is.

Enough you guys are killing me!!!

How did you lose 3 feet of one of your legs?

he lost 3 feet, but only 3inches off his overall height

If you are referring to paying OT for services such as security overnight to protect their assets on the ground then yes, you are correct sir. If you are were referring to Sealy paying OT for a Game Warden to work the tournament for enforcment of laws only, then do NOT receive funds from Sealy. They are there working as part of their normal tour of duties and being compensated by the state.


What I can tell you from personal experience of 11 years in the field and having brothers who are game wardens,
1. No one is going to tell me or have any rule over how I issue citations or warnings, no one.
2. If this was said to me or any LEO, that person would quickly be put in their place and reminded that they are there to enforce the rules and I am there to enforce the laws. A civilian nor another peace officer can dictate another's officers discretion on this matter.
3. When it comes to testimony in a court of law, "he told me to" simply doesn't cut it.

I stand behind my statements 100% as I sit here and type this message sitting next to the Game Warden who dealt with this specific incident.

I don't know but I bet it's heck to stand on the front deck with a 20mph wind with one leg shorter than the other... but then again, Capt. Morgan does it..

These always go so well

Just to clarify, since my little story has got so much attention. When I first measured the fish on the boat it was just under 16. We didnt noticed the difference until on the way to the weigh in I stopped by my friends house and showed him how close the fish was. I was ready to except a ticket and maybe learn something about how to measure a fish correctly. I was even going to let the GW measure it first then take it up to the official. However the GW where on break and I could not find one. Once the official said it was good I had no problem excepting the $450 check, its their tournament.
If there had been any integrity issue I would have had to know it was an illegal fish. How could I know that if it measured legally one way and not the other. It was a definite coin flip. By the way if I had KNOWN it was illegal the fish would have been swimming with his little buddies immediately.

Per Curt Kelly on KMOO sunday morning if he measures a fish on both sides and one is over/under and the other side is Over/Under he gives the benefit to the angler that its a legal fish.

Good to know. It has always been my perception if the tail broke the 16" line on either side it was a slot fish.

Just a thought, If the tournament director found out that the ruler was not being used correctly what would that have done to everyone else in the tournament. Might have opened up a big can of worms! (And I don't mean the kind you fish with).

The state record was set long before the slot. I dont see the point of the slot the fishing has not been any better or worse since it was implemented IMO.

Ok then, since it's no worse, why change it?

Fishing pressure is worse now than ever so technically fishing has gotten better.

The slot was 14-18 inches when Barry St. Clair caught his 18.18 in 1992. It was changed to 14-21" the following September ('93). The slot on Lake Fork will never be eliminated. Changed? Maybe, but never removed.

A better scenario would be no restrictions for white bass on Fork, only. Probably never happen, either.

Give Game Wardens something better to do thats for sure. The state might lose some revenue from tickets issued to some poor soul who does not understand the whole slot system. Make tournaments much more competitive and enjoyable IMO. Ray Bob had a slot for years and honestly no one gave a [censored] because it was Ray Bob and not Fork. I fish RB probably 30 -40 times a year because I live just up the road. I have never ever been met on the water or at the boat ramp by a GW wanting to check for slotted fish. The slot never showed to produce any kind of better fishing. Fork does get a lot of pressure but I catch more and better fish @ Fork than I do at Ray Bob. I do not think it has anything to do with a slot. Fork is just a much better suited reservoir for bass than RB is. All East Texas lakes are great bass lakes Fork just has a reputation for BIG bass mainly because 10 times more people fish it than any of the other lakes. If there was conclusive data showing the slot is working I could see a reason to keep it, I just dont see it. I would like to hear some opinions from guides about the slot at Fork.

My point is since the slot has been changed no one has caught a bass bigger than Barrys 18.18, I mean surely by now with all this technology someone could catch a damn 20 lber lol. You would think his record would have been broken several times by now after all the lake is much better with a 24 inch slot.

Those poor souls should either go to the TP&W website or read the yearly regulations manual BEFORE fishing ANY lake. Those poor souls bring the tickets on themselves. Anyone that goes to a lake to fish an event or keep fish and does not read the guidelines for said lake prior to going have no one to blame but themselves.

Those GWs are out there doing what they are paid to do.

I totally agree with you Mark. I am just saying surely there are bigger and better things for a GW to do than to worry about how long or short a fish is. Without the slot they could being doing something more productive. I have had many conversations with the very fine GW in that county. IMO I dont think any of them care for the slot. They definitely do it because that is their job.

I think the argument to keep the slot is that it's too risky to just make a change for no specific reason. To increase tournaments? The lake has one every single weekend. Please...no more. To make them more competitive? There doesn't seem to be a problem drawing entrees, so what would "more competitive" change?

To me, I just think about all the beautiful slot fish that were released immediately last weekend instead of being kept in livewells, bouncing around until they were weighed, not having enough oxygen, and then being handled by 3-4 people at the weigh in. Instead...those fish went back in the lake right away. We caught some beautiful 23"+ fish, several of them, and they went right back into Fork. They probably all lived. It's a unique feature of Fork that won't go away.

The good news is that if you want to fish tournaments of any kind without a slot, you have plenty of choices in Texas.

Revenue for their department. Of the few cops I know, none of them enjoy writing speeding tickets but they know it's part of their job and it creates revenue for the city/county/state.

That said, it is strange to see 2-3 GW at one weigh in. As a tax payer, I'd like to see those resources spread around a little more. But having one at the event makes sense and keeps people more honest I think.

What are these "better things" they could be doing?

I love when Joe Q Citizen says someone in the first responder field should have "better things" to do.

Lay it on me, let's hear your list pf "better things to do"

All you old timers may remember when Sealy Held that big cardboard check up for $25000 at the tournament and said he was giving it to TPWL and then he stopped payment on it and they could do nothing because it was a donation , not for goods or service.

What are these "better things" they could be doing?

I love when Joe Q Citizen says someone in the first responder field should have "better things" to do.

Lay it on me, let's hear your list pf "better things to do" [/quote]


Uhhh anything other than measuring a fish. Such as reckless boat driving (which never happens at Fork).

Being on the water

There have been deaths on the water @ the BBS

Never seen anyone die at the weigh in

Seen a few that wish they where dead

Regards

Joe Q Citizen

Agreed

Let it go already, move on to another topic.

Uhhh anything other than measuring a fish. Such as reckless boat driving (which never happens at Fork).

Being on the water

There have been deaths on the water @ the BBS

Never seen anyone die at the weigh in

Seen a few that wish they where dead

Regards

Joe Q Citizen [/quote]

They are on the water as much as possible.
Reckless driving? - not sure exactly how that can be enforced. Reckless to you may be someone else's normal and there is no law governing it.
Deaths - yep but what would it change if they were on the water? Lots of police on the road...seldom does a fatal accident happen in front of one.
Measuring fish is part of their job. Odds are higher of catching someone on land where anglers are congregating than on the water.

They are on the water as much as possible.
Reckless driving? - not sure exactly how that can be enforced. Reckless to you may be someone else's normal and there is no law governing it.
Deaths - yep but what would it change if they were on the water? Lots of police on the road...seldom does a fatal accident happen in front of one.
Measuring fish is part of their job. Odds are higher of catching someone on land where anglers are congregating than on the water.

[/quote]

You asked for answers I provided my opinion.

We will just agree to disagree

Enjoyed the conversation

Thats precisely what you can do sir just change the channel if you dont like what you see.

Uhhh anything other than measuring a fish. Such as reckless boat driving (which never happens at Fork).

Being on the water

There have been deaths on the water @ the BBS

Never seen anyone die at the weigh in

Seen a few that wish they where dead

Regards

Joe Q Citizen[/quote]


How many hours have you worked in conjunction with a game warden on or off the water in the state of Texas??


They do a lot more than most people will ever know. On top of the fact they are spread so thin it's ridiculous. And part of their job description is to protect our resources, which that includes checking people's catch.

So basically you are saying you think they should be able to cover every square foot of water to protect people from themselves during these events?
Like that is even slightly realistic. A big part of staying safe is looking out for yourself. "Big brother" cannot keep away all the bad things 100% of the time.

Give them a break, these men and women work long hours and do a great job with the limited resources allocated to them through the politicians elected.

How many hours have you worked in conjunction with a game warden on or off the water in the state of Texas??


They do a lot more than most people will ever know. On top of the fact they are spread so thin it's ridiculous. And part of their job description is to protect our resources, which that includes checking people's catch.

So basically you are saying you think they should be able to cover every square foot of water to protect people from themselves during these events?
Like that is even slightly realistic. A big part of staying safe is looking out for yourself. "Big brother" cannot keep away all the bad things 100% of the time.

Give them a break, these men and women work long hours and do a great job with the limited resources allocated to them through the politicians elected. [/quote]


We are not on the same page sir. Sorry